Why are lower colors preferred in OECs?

[rubberducky]

Hi everyone, please forgive what I'm afraid is a pretty newbie question.

I've been reading through older threads to try to learn more and saw a few mentions that OECs are better in lower colors. Why is this? I had a couple of blind guesses -- maybe because it seems more era-appropriate (I understand antique diamonds were mined at a time when higher colors were rarer) or because it complements the bigger facets/flashes more?

Thanks!

 

[valeria101]

No new rules for old stones ...

 

[Matthews1127]

I* believe the flashes of light from the chunky facets are complimented by the lower color. Those K-P colored stones throw off so much color!!! I intend to add one to my collection, some day!!!

 

[Lisa Loves Shiny]

I think for many people low colored OECs are beautiful and are very attractively priced. They can be very romantic and since they are less expensive you can buy a larger OEC. This enables you to enjoy the more visible,lovely facet patterns a bit more than a comparably priced smaller, whiter OEC.

 

[rubberducky]

I think for many people low colored OECs are beautiful and are very attractively priced. They can be very romantic and since they are less expensive you can buy a larger OEC. This enables you to enjoy the more visible,lovely facet patterns a bit more than a comparably priced smaller, whiter OEC.

That makes sense!

Do OECs have a larger price discount for lower color than MRBs? Or perhaps the OEC facets especially benefit from being larger?

 

[foxinsox]

I've seen it suggested that the facets may appear more distinct in lower colours but I suspect it's a combination of the Cape rough being more prevalent when they were being cut along with fewer high colour OEC/OMBs being available now owing to the long practice of recutting them into MRB meaning we now expect them to be warmer colours and people who love the light play are used to them being warmer.

 

[rubberducky]

Interesting! Is the lower color only desirable in antique stones, or also in the modern versions of antique cuts?

 

[Niel]

I think you've read their meaning in reverse. Old cuts are not "better" in lower colors but lower colors are less detectable and more accepted in old cuts. The broader their facets the less the color is concentrated. This is why you see most fancy cuts cut in radiants or cushions. The reverse is true about concentrating color. Because of this a old cut k may to the viewer appear less tinted than a modern cut round. Also being that a lot of high color and clarity stones were recur when old cuts fell out of fashion, people are more generally willing to accept a lower color diamond because they are more plentiful. Ou know they used to print in some appraisals why the value of the stone would be if recut to a modern cut of a lower carat?

 

[Niel]

That makes sense!

Do OECs have a larger price discount for lower color than MRBs? Or perhaps the OEC facets especially benefit from being larger?

In the market today you're likely to find a mrb in lower color ranges cheaper than old cuts.

 

[rubberducky]

The broader their facets the less the color is concentrated.

I see! Is there a simple layman's explanation for this?

Ou know they used to print in some appraisals why the value of the stone would be if recut to a modern cut of a lower carat?

Woah. I assume that means the stone's appraised value is at minimum that of the potential modern recut? How big a difference is there typically?

 

[LLJsmom]

In the market today you're likely to find a mrb in lower color ranges cheaper than old cuts.

Exactly true. A 3 carat K MRB can be significantly less costly than a 3 carat K OEC. And all the recutting has just reduced the supply of higher colored OECs. My personal opinion is the higher colors (and I’ve seen G-D) OEC OMB, seem to reflect a lot of white colors. That’s just my observation. For me, a large part of the reason I love OECs is the pastel colors which I see more of in the lower colors H and below. I would need more time to study lots of OECs in various colors to determine my absolute favorite.

 

[Lisa Loves Shiny]

That makes sense!

Do OECs have a larger price discount for lower color than MRBs? Or perhaps the OEC facets especially benefit from being larger?

When I was looking for a warmer, well cut OEC the prices were comparable to warmer, ideal cut MRB's. I think there are a lot of forum members who choose warmer OECs to add to their collection, while first time diamond buyers usually choose the highest cut, color and clarity they can afford. Not that this is a rule, but generally speaking.

 

[Niel]

They don't appraise old cuts that way any longer what that basically meant was the stone was worth more being recut to a smaller stone that it was worth the size it was and an old cut.

 

[Niel]

Exactly true. A 3 carat K MRB can be significantly less costly than a 3 carat K OEC. And all the recutting has just reduced the supply of higher colored OECs. My personal opinion is the higher colors (and I’ve seen G-D) OEC OMB, seem to reflect a lot of white colors. That’s just my observation. For me, a large part of the reason I love OECs is the pastel colors which I see more of in the lower colors H and below. I would need more time to study lots of OECs in various colors to determine my absolute favorite.

Particularly colors like o-p ranger. There are not people racing for mid range MRB

 

[LightBright]

Old cuts are not necessarily better in lower colors. They are affordable in lower colors and they are far more available in lower colors. For people with higher color tolerance this is good news. For people with lower color tolerance it becomes a game of what can you find (with all the typical trade offs of cut, color, clarity, size and price). Large old cuts of higher colors (G an up) are exceedingly rare because most of them have been recut into MRBs over the years-- with sellers essentially using the old cuts as a source of rough for modern cuts. This pains me. In my case, I find some tints easier to tolerate in lower colors than other tints. (Stones can have tints that are brown, grey, yellow, greenish, etc.) Also, some cuts are so well done that they make very low colors of certain tints astoundingly beautiful. It is a matter of seeing each stone in person. I recently came across a GIA certified F old cut cushion with a 9.9mm spread that was within my budget because of cut issues. I still am in lust for that stone but it had a hybrid old cut (part rose cut part cushion). The reflections in that stone were VERY colorful...I loved it!! IMO if you can find a large old cut with broad facets in a lighter color, those are just as beautiful as a lower color cuts.

 

[foxinsox]

I recently came across a GIA certified F old cut cushion with a 9.9mm spread that was within my budget because of cut issues. I still am in lust for that stone but it had a hybrid old cut (part rose cut part cushion). The reflections in that stone were VERY colorful...I loved it!!

Would you happen to have any pictures or video of this? It sounds amazing

 

[LawmaLlama]

I have a stone AVR (modern OEC cut from GOG for optimal performance). My center stone is a G and the smaller stones are H and I colors. I am color sensitive. In bright light and incandescent, all 3 stones tend to throw white most of the time. But in the shade, and in low light, watch out, these babies throw an amazing color array.

Granted, my stones are modern cuts, but imo the OEC cut with large facets just tends to pick up more color. This plays into the tint and overall hue of the color of the OEC, and makes some of the lower color OECs look gorgeous.

 

[Bonfire]

Just to give you an idea of how prismatic a high color old cut can be.
This is my F Antique cushion and her rainbow colors are beautiful.

 

[Bonfire]

Indulge me one more?
This photo shows an F and an M showing their colors

 

[valeria101]

.
Thinking out loud ...

... those large facets produce a bright patchwork that play with colour: this is rather more obvious the more colour there is: WWW

If I were not trying to explain thigs, I'd be smiling at the subtle impression of depth, softness - rather unexpected from hard rock .-)

In modern brilliants & others, with their much smaller facets, colour looks much more even (see the one-two between David @Rockdiamond & I about the same play of colour & light deployed in diamonds where deepening the colour is wanted: WWW).

Sure enough, none of this means anything in the colourless & near colourless range ... there is not enough colour to play with at all !

As you like it ...

 

[valeria101]

.

@Bonfire, OMG !

 

[foxinsox]

Indulge away Bonfire - a few more comparison shots to admire please!!
Slight aside but prompted by those two beauties, how do those of you with multiple gorgeous rings decide which one to wear? Or does the one not being an ering for the day become a RHR? I can’t imagine not wearing them!

 

[LLJsmom]

Indulge me one more?
This photo shows an F and an M showing their colors

So beautiful!! Wonderful that you have high and lower color old cuts.

 

[ecf8503]

Indulge me one more?
This photo shows an F and an M showing their colors

Bonfire - what is the top setting and who made it? Is it a CvB? It's beautiful!

 

[Bonfire]

@valeria101
@foxinsox Thanks for your kind compliments. I alternate rings

@LLJsmom Thanks LLJ it’s the best of both worlds!

@ecf8503 Yes the top is CvB’s Chloe, the bottom VC

What I especially love about my F is not only does she throw rainbow colors, but she is so bright and white in ALL lighting conditions! She’s my jam!

 

[Karl_K]

Mostly because for decades the higher color ones that entered into trade hands were recut into a mrb.
So when people got interested in the older cuts lower colors was all that was available. So lower colors became more acceptable.
Or like I say more people learned there are no bad colors it its what its and perception and opinion of that color is personal.

Even today if say a 2ct D/vvs/vs oec enters into trade hands the calculation will be done, more value as a 1.5k vs/vvs possibly IF if you can remove the inclusion?

 

[yennyfire]

Even today if say a 2ct D/vvs/vs oec enters into trade hands the calculation will be done, more value as a 1.5k vs/vvs possibly IF if you can remove the inclusion?

That makes me sad! I know that it's a business and businesses want to make $$, but it's a shame. I guess my E/VS2 oval really IS kind of like a unicorn...

 

[Karl_K]

That makes me sad! I know that it's a business and businesses want to make $$, but it's a shame. I guess my E/VS2 oval really IS kind of like a unicorn...

The same calculation goes on for other stones also.
For example for a while prices were such that low cost and secondary market asschers were being snagged up and recut to mrb.
That was in the last 2 years.

 

[foxinsox]

Even today if say a 2ct D/vvs/vs oec enters into trade hands the calculation will be done, more value as a 1.5k vs/vvs possibly IF if you can remove the inclusion?

This makes me cringe

 

[GearGirly]

I chose my M because of its beauty and affordability. What I realized is that I like the color a lot, and I would definitely go with an O-P or so. I do however like the look of my other stones that are really white too.