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Whom Was the FBI Watching?

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AGBF

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Well...if you didn't know Big Brother was watching, you now do! The Bush administration, in its hubris, has been watching some interesting groups in order to catch terrorists. (Or do you think they might have had another agenda for watching these dangerous organizations?)

Excerpts from an article follow and a link to it has been provided.

"WASHINGTON, Dec. 19 - Counterterrorism agents at the Federal Bureau of Investigation have conducted numerous surveillance and intelligence-gathering operations that involved, at least indirectly, groups active in causes as diverse as the environment, animal cruelty and poverty relief, newly disclosed agency records show.

...​


After the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, John Ashcroft, who was then attorney general, loosened restrictions on the F.B.I.'s investigative powers, giving the bureau greater ability to visit and monitor Web sites, mosques and other public entities in developing terrorism leads. The bureau has used that authority to investigate not only groups with suspected ties to foreign terrorists, but also protest groups suspected of having links to violent or disruptive activities.

But the documents, coming after the Bush administration's confirmation that President Bush had authorized some spying without warrants in fighting terrorism, prompted charges from civil rights advocates that the government had improperly blurred the line between terrorism and acts of civil disobedience and lawful protest.

One F.B.I. document indicates that agents in Indianapolis planned to conduct surveillance as part of a 'Vegan Community Project.' Another document talks of the Catholic Workers group's 'semi-communistic ideology.' A third indicates the bureau's interest in determining the location of a protest over llama fur planned by People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals.


...​


And earlier this month, the A.C.L.U.'s Colorado chapter released similar documents involving, among other things, people protesting logging practices at a lumber industry gathering in 2002.

The latest batch of documents, parts of which the A.C.L.U. plans to release publicly on Tuesday, totals more than 2,300 pages and centers on references in internal files to a handful of groups, including PETA, the environmental group Greenpeace and the Catholic Workers group, which promotes antipoverty efforts and social causes.

...​



A.C.L.U officials said the latest batch of documents released by the F.B.I. indicated the agency's interest in a broader array of activist and protest groups than they had previously thought.

...​


'It's clear that this administration has engaged every possible agency, from the Pentagon to N.S.A. to the F.B.I., to engage in spying on Americans,' said Ann Beeson, associate legal director for the A.C.L.U.

'You look at these documents,'...'and you think, wow, we have really returned to the days of J. Edgar Hoover, when you see in F.B.I. files that they're talking about a group like the Catholic Workers league as having a communist ideology.'

...​


'It's shocking and it's outrageous,' Mr. Kerr said. 'And to me, it's an abuse of power by the F.B.I. when groups like Greenpeace and PETA are basically being punished for their social activism.'"


article
 

strmrdr

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me :}
 

fire&ice

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Caveat - not a big fan of big brother..............BUT

I, for one, don''t give a rat''s butt about them investigating PETA. Those people are crazy. In the end, they don''t care about finding good homes for dogs & cats. They just care about their stupid agenda which doesn''t have a place in our world. I wonder if people know that they euthanize more dogs than ANY organization in the US. Aske a vet. Oh wait, they don''t want any vets.
 

perry

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Towards the end of the Viet Nam war it was discovered that the FBI and other agencies had been tracking a number of americans and certain groups (the list of names did get released).

My mother worked/ volunteered for one of those groups - which involved charitable/social services and activism for those in poverty. I struggle with the concept of that group being dangerous to America.

Looks like the same old same old. So, what is new here.

I will admit a certain amount of disapointment with the current revalations.

I believe that the search warrant provisions have been watered down so much that it does not provide you with any real protection (the police is susposed to be able to present credible evidence that you may have committed a crime and that their is evidence in your place). Get stopped and have the cops ask to search your car - and say no. The "credible evidence" required is for the cop to tell his superviosr who tells a judge that the cop on the scene feels that you are evasive - and must therefore be hiding something.

With that level of "evidence" required to get a search warrant - how minimal must the leads be if they can''t get a search warrant to do the investigating they want?

Perry
 

movie zombie

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while one might not agree with PETA, either one believes in the US Constitution for everyone or we'll find that the US Constitution does not apply to anyone:

First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.
by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945


it is ironic that spying on Americans exercising their Constitutional rights is being done in the name of protecting american values.

peace,movie zombie
 

strmrdr

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Date: 12/20/2005 3:27:01 PM
Author: movie zombie
while one might not agree with PETA, either one believes in the US Constitution for everyone or we''ll find that the US Constitution does not apply to anyone:


First they came for the Communists,

and I didn’t speak up,

because I wasn’t a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews,

and I didn’t speak up,

because I wasn’t a Jew.

Then they came for the Catholics,

and I didn’t speak up,

because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me,

and by that time there was no one

left to speak up for me.

by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945



it is ironic that spying on Americans exercising their Constitutional rights is being done in the name of protecting american values.


peace,movie zombie

I was going to post that!
 

AGBF

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Date: 12/20/2005 9:38:44 AM
Author: fire&ice
I, for one, don't give a (epithet deleted) about them investigating PETA. Those people are crazy. In the end, they don't care about finding good homes for dogs & cats. They just care about their stupid agenda which doesn't have a place in our world. I wonder if people know that they euthanize more dogs than ANY organization in the US. Aske a vet. Oh wait, they don't want any vets.

The problem is one of principle above personalities. You may hate PETA, but unless PETA members have the same rights as everyone else in the United States, the principle of law is eroded. What if some of us who do not belong to PETA are spared the illegal invasion of our privacy this time, but the next President decides to place illegal wiretaps on the phones of anyone who has ever given money to an animal welfare organization?

Also: do you think animal rights activists are a threat of the same kind as the 9/11 plane hijackers? It is absurd! Bush has used 9/11 to take away even more of the small amount of privacy left to the American people.

Deborah
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
7,828
Date: 12/20/2005 7:39:44 PM
Author: AGBF



Date: 12/20/2005 9:38:44 AM
Author: fire&ice
I, for one, don''t give a (epithet deleted) about them investigating PETA. Those people are crazy. In the end, they don''t care about finding good homes for dogs & cats. They just care about their stupid agenda which doesn''t have a place in our world. I wonder if people know that they euthanize more dogs than ANY organization in the US. Aske a vet. Oh wait, they don''t want any vets.

The problem is one of principle above personalities. You may hate PETA, but unless PETA members have the same rights as everyone else in the United States, the principle of law is eroded. What if some of us who do not belong to PETA are spared the illegal invasion of our privacy this time, but the next President decides to place illegal wiretaps on the phones of anyone who has ever given money to an animal welfare organization?

Also: do you think animal rights activists are a threat of the same kind as the 9/11 plane hijackers? It is absurd! Bush has used 9/11 to take away even more of the small amount of privacy left to the American people.

Deborah
Cantcha let me have a rant!
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It drives me nuts that people don''t understand the whole PETA thing - when they seem like they are doing good.

That said, I''m sorry - I don''t have an issue with intercepts from known satelite phones from AlQ.

To be honest, I don''t understand the Patriot Act much. I will have to look into it more - but I''d rather research Georg Jensen
28.gif
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FireGoddess

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Messages
12,145
Date: 12/20/2005 3:27:01 PM
Author: movie zombie
while one might not agree with PETA, either one believes in the US Constitution for everyone or we''ll find that the US Constitution does not apply to anyone:

First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.
by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945


it is ironic that spying on Americans exercising their Constitutional rights is being done in the name of protecting american values.

peace,movie zombie

I think about this quote all the time, particularly in recent years.

I don''t understand the concept of bringing "liberty and freedom" to other countries, all the while taking ours away in the meantime. Talk about irony.
 

movie zombie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
Messages
11,879
Date: 12/20/2005 8:12:39 PM
Author: fire&ice

To be honest, I don''t understand the Patriot Act much. I will have to look into it more - but I''d rather research Georg Jensen
28.gif
9.gif
there are many that wish that none of us undertood the anti-patriot act much and were researching georg jensen.

my mother called a few weeks ago and wanted to know if i knew much about it. turns out that a mail order house employee tried to get info from her that would enable her to do idenity theft. when my mother refused to give her the info, the employee told her it was required that she give the info because it was required by the patriot act and that it was for her own protection. my mother refused and called me instead.

peace, movie zombie
 

MissAva

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
8,230
Date: 12/20/2005 10:27:43 PM
Author: movie zombie

Date: 12/20/2005 8:12:39 PM
Author: fire&ice

To be honest, I don''t understand the Patriot Act much. I will have to look into it more - but I''d rather research Georg Jensen
28.gif
9.gif
there are many that wish that none of us undertood the anti-patriot act much and were researching georg jensen.

my mother called a few weeks ago and wanted to know if i knew much about it. turns out that a mail order house employee tried to get info from her that would enable her to do idenity theft. when my mother refused to give her the info, the employee told her it was required that she give the info because it was required by the patriot act and that it was for her own protection. my mother refused and called me instead.

peace, movie zombie
29.gif
That is just madness....I don’t know how old your mother is but a number of universities offer little one night classes about how to protect yourself from identity theft that are open to the public, and who has the right to ask for what, and how you can refuse or give their information in a different medium. I will see if I can find my pamphlet and scan it....
 

movie zombie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
Messages
11,879
Date: 12/21/2005 10:17:43 AM
Author: Matatora
29.gif
That is just madness....I don’t know how old your mother is but a number of universities offer little one night classes about how to protect yourself from identity theft that are open to the public, and who has the right to ask for what, and how you can refuse or give their information in a different medium. I will see if I can find my pamphlet and scan it....
mom is 81.......

the point really is that we as citizens have rights and obligations. we should know our rights. and we should know how those rights are being taken from us by the so-called patriot act.

peace, movie zombie
 
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