Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity

Which RB would you pick??

Status
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.
M

mpark46

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
25
I found 2 RB stones that are pretty much identical in price on James Allen. Just wondering which one you would choose and why please.


http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-875855.asp
Shape: Round
Carat weight: 1.70
Cut: Ideal
Color: F
Clarity: SI1
Certificate: AGS

Depth: 61.7%
Table: 53.7%
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Girdle: Thin to medium
Culet: None
Fluorescence: Neglible
Measurements: 7.68*7.73*4.75

Crown Angle: 33.9°
Crown %: 15.50
pavilion Angle: 40.8°
pavilion %: 43.10



http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/E-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1107338.asp
Shape: Round
Carat weight: 1.73
Cut: Ideal
Color: E
Clarity: SI1
Certificate: GIA

Depth: 61.5%
Table: 57.0%
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Girdle: Thin
Culet: None
Fluorescence: Medium
Measurements: 7.69*7.75*4.75
 

Neither

15.gif
.



Predominately because:



I think the F has a small table and an inclusion bang centre that I wouldn't like.
The E looks good on paper, so to speak but the flour is off putting and the inclusion is not too pretty.

Sorry....


What made you choose these two?
 
Thanks for your quick reply. I completely appreciate any feedback (negative included!)

Basically, they''re both within my budget (12-15k) and this is pretty much the size that I was going for. I went and looked at some diamonds this weekend and would really like to get something in the E-G color range, and so I need to give up some clarity for the color...so this is what I came up with.

I''m sorry, but what is flour? Any different recommendations you can make would be great. I like James Allen''s website because you can see an actual photo of the diamonds.
 
Date: 12/17/2007 1:26:05 PM
Author: mpark46
Thanks for your quick reply. I completely appreciate any feedback (negative included!)

Basically, they''re both within my budget (12-15k) and this is pretty much the size that I was going for. I went and looked at some diamonds this weekend and would really like to get something in the E-G color range, and so I need to give up some clarity for the color...so this is what I came up with.

I''m sorry, but what is flour? Any different recommendations you can make would be great. I like James Allen''s website because you can see an actual photo of the diamonds.
Click to expand...

Ok, you might do well to research diamonds on the tutorials here before you get too fond of any particular specs for your diamond ''to be''.

SI''s can be wonderful for their price points but you have to consider whether you are prepared to put up with any visible inclusions; perhaps they can be hidden under prongs or indeed if they are eye clean [meaning no obvious inclusions or very dark inclusions to a certain amount of inches away] (a good retailer will give you an honest answer).


I love colourless stones and am hypercritical of colour so I may not be the most ''even'' person to offer comments for you - flour refers to fluorescence which can change the overall colour/appearance of the diamond. Generally (and I mean most generally here) flour is not desirable in D E or F stones as it can make them look blue, experts will give you better advice here. It seems to me that the flour in this range makes the stone cheaper, but if it doesn’t make the stone look milky then it could look super cute as a blue/white stone if you like that colouring. Now in lower coloured stones, I''s and J''s (etc) for example flour can make the stone look very white and give you a very affordable stone which can look as great as the E''s or F''s you have looked at.


I will have a look around and give you some links to stones I think are cute. I am sure others will chime in too.


[Disclaimer I am certainly not an expert, but I know what I like
31.gif
]
 
Sounds great. I would certainly appreciate any alternatives to the two that I chose.

I think I could forego some size (although not too much) for better clarity, but I would like to stay within the D-F/G range as far as color.
 
For balance, I want to emphasize that there are a TON of SI stones that have no visible inclusions to the naked eye.

When you''re working with top-make SI stones, I''d expect the majority don''t have ''visible'' inclusions if you aren''t looking with a loupe.
 
Very cute SI1 from GOG:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/3586/

Nice from WF:
http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-395204.htm

I have been eye-ing this one for myself! [just a teensy white inclusion at 6 o’clock]
http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-395203.htm

By the way both these sites show ‘real life’ pic’s of the diamond.



Ps.



What are you looking for in a stone? What is your (her) priority, big, flawless, white great cut? Once you work this out we can help find you a stunner
30.gif
!
 
Those all look like wonderful stones, especially that last one. I do think that she''d be disappointed with a 1.5ct

We looked at some 1.6ct and 1.8ct SI1 stones, and of course she loved the 1.8. I think I''d like to stay within the 1.6-1.75 range for size.
 
Date: 12/17/2007 1:54:49 PM
Author: aljdewey
For balance, I want to emphasize that there are a TON of SI stones that have no visible inclusions to the naked eye.

When you're working with top-make SI stones, I'd expect the majority don't have 'visible' inclusions if you aren't looking with a loupe.
Click to expand...
I didn't mean to say that SI's arent* fab! They are! I own 2 beauties and would buy another in the morning if DH had some spare cash lying around, not doing anything!!!!

Just to say that thery are what they are; ask the vendor why it is SI and if it is eye clean or not and if not can the inclusion be hidden by a prong etc.

*ETA, edited cause I can't type. Jeesh, now look at me with my double negative! Shoot me now
20.gif
.
 
Date: 12/17/2007 2:02:48 PM
Author: mpark46
Those all look like wonderful stones, especially that last one. I do think that she''d be disappointed with a 1.5ct

We looked at some 1.6ct and 1.8ct SI1 stones, and of course she loved the 1.8. I think I''d like to stay within the 1.6-1.75 range for size.
Click to expand...
Ok, so size is a priority.

Check out this thread...
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/j-color-stones-in-platinum.24731/

I bought a D and love love love it. But, if I had a ''do-over'' I think I would go for an I, J or even K with flour to get size. This will be my next ring, a great big whopping J with lashings of flour and perhaps a halo (or two) on top!

Look at that thread, I know you are thinking colourless but keep an open mind. In the real world nobody cares if it is a D,E,F,G etc just if it is a big rock nicely cut in a nice setting. You can hardly wave your colouless stone around with a sign pointing to it saying (ITS COLOURLESS, I COULD HAVE BOUGHT A BIGGER ONE!
26.gif
). [Joke]
 
For reference:

[Some lovely PS lady has a hand pic with 2 or 3 rings on it showing the difference in colour, I can''t find that one which is a super dooper ''real life'' example of the non-difference in colour, but this will do for now]

stolenpicture.jpg
 
That thread is very interesting!! Yes, size seems like it''s a priority, although I personally don''t feel comfortable buying anything yellower than an H...I guess it''s just a preference of my own.

Since you''ve been so helpful, could I pick your brain about this diamond?

http://www.uniondiamond.com/diamonds/diamonds.php?search_type_id=2&action_type_id=2&item_id=AA566062&&1.91ct-F-VS2-Round-Brilliant-Cut-Diamond

Unfortunately they don''t offer a photo of the actual diamond. It''s an EGL graded, F color VS2. Do you think this means that its really a G color, SI1?
 
Also, would you choose an ideal cut over color? I guess what I mean is, would an ideal cut G stone be more brilliant than an excellent cut D or E stone...
 
Helpful...Moi...Hahahahahh!

Wait 'till you get to 'know' me. [Hint: I am a thundering Bit$h]


WAH!

I don't like it: EGL and doesn't have the full specs so you cannot make an informed decision. You need more info to decide.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Please consider SI's in your choices, do not be turned off by me. Read what I said carefully, they are GREAT, but you need to ask why they are SI and act accordingly.

Use this on the diamond stats when considering the cut, it is really helpful....
http://www.pricescope.com/cutadviser.asp

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ETA: yes, yes, yes! Cut is all important. A great cut 'j' can look better than a 'd, e, or f' with a poo cut. Go for H&A when possible and thereafter the best cut possible. Experts please chime in here!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Edited for spelling - I swear, I should just let the cat walk across the keys
20.gif
, I am sure she would spell better and perhaps be more coherent! [Meaow]
 
So EGL doesn''t offer them at all, or you just can''t see them here? Can you be more specific about what EGL doesn''t offer or what they''re missing?
 
Ok,

There are lots of threads offering basic info. DO NOT pull the trigger on any diamond 'till you fill youself up on all you need to know. I know what I needed to know to buy and love my stone, I will never let it go. But I do not claim to know it all. I do not want to misinform you, have a look in previous threads. Use the search engine (top right) and type in suitable phrases to get the hits you need.

But anyhoo.. this is what I got on EGL...

GIA and AGS are considered reliable labs, and you can 'trust' their assessment of the stone. Still you would do well to get an appraiser to cast a beady eye over it when you buy / before you buy.

EGL (which ever country) are considered to by quite loose on their gradings... a g could be an i a VS2 could be an SI something.

I went AGS and never looked back.

EG. You could choose a E VS1 best cut from EGL at 2 cts and if you pay a great price it 'wont matter' if it appraises at an 1.9ct F SI2 (eyeclean) as long as you paid under/at the odds even for the 'true' grading.
41.gif
(I do not advise this just putting a point across)

ETA:

To answer your question, which I forgot to do
20.gif
!

Yes the EGL should have the full specs but the vendor may not have this diamond in stock (lots of threads on this). The vendor may not have taken a copy of the cert, whatever. The cert & info exists; if you think you like it they can pull the stone in and send you a scan of the cert.
 
1.71 G, VS1 Expert Selection for $16,777 with wire transfer discount.

1.587 G, VS1 Expert Selection for $15,729 with wire transfer discount.

1.562 ACA, G VS2, $15,366 with the Pricescope discount.

Depending on your time frame, you might wait a bit. I''ve seen a lot of diamonds on my "potential" list get scooped up because of the holiday rush. There may be a bit more selection with your criteria in a little while, a few weeks or so.


I wouldn''t worry about medium blue fluor. The GIA did a study on fluorescence, and found that it had either no impact at all on the perceived beauty to both experts and lay persons, or it actually increased the appeal of the stone. Medium blue fluor should not cause a stone to be milky. The GIA could not find enough stones that exhibited this problem to even include them in their test. Only very strong or extremely strong fluor should be a candidate for causing haziness. Now, a stone with medium blue fluor might show a slightly bluish tint (although probably barely noticeable) in sunlight, but many people like this effect. If you''re looking at a stone with med blue fluor, go brick & mortar and ask to have a similar stone w/ med blue fluor taken near a window or out into the sun to see how you feel about it. I would personally not rule out med blue fluor (now, make sure it''s not yellow fluor) in a colorless D-E-F diamond.

Personally, I''d drop a bit on color to keep a desirable clarity.
 
Date: 12/17/2007 2:22:56 PM
Author: mpark46
Also, would you choose an ideal cut over color? I guess what I mean is, would an ideal cut G stone be more brilliant than an excellent cut D or E stone...
Click to expand...
Brilliance has nothing to do with color, it''s cut-dependent (well, and maybe clarity if you get really included so as to interfere with light return). An ideal-cut G should be a more attractive stone than an less-ideal D or E. I''ve seen D-E-F stones that are pretty dead, and I-J stones that sparkle and through off tons of light, and I''d rather own the later.

Your budget is going to be a bit tight to get D-E-F, SI1 or better clarity, and your desired size, at least from my quick look. I''d focus on cut quality (in part because I''ve owned diamonds for decades and personally care more that the diamond isn''t lifeless vs. wanting a big, dull rock). I''d go with an ideal cut, H&A stone, in maybe G-H or I color (because it should be very brilliant if it is super-ideal cut), SI1 or better clarity, and deal with a vendor who can eyeball it for me at about 8 inches to tell me if it really is eyeclean, because I''m super-squeamish about inclusions (and not so much about color). If color is most important to you and your gf, then I think you''re going to have to sacrifice on size a bit, because D-E-F is a very desirable range and sort of the no-brainer realm for people to buy in, so it is priced accordingly.
 
Also, as far as size - the 1.7 you first posted has a 7.7 mm spread. I posted a 1.562 that has a 7.5 mm spread. Now, .2 of a mm is going to be barely noticeable. I know you say that she preferred a 1.8 ct over a 1.6 ct, but the size difference there is really pushing the edge of what is even detectable to the human eye. Most people think a noticeable size difference would be at .5 mm. Some of it may be psychological, or the stones she was looking at may have had differences in cut or color that were influencing her choices. Just understand that the small difference in carat sizes there is not going to translate into a visible difference on her finger, it''s more of a psychological thing.
 
You guys have been EXTREMELY helpful.
I''m definitely going to do some more research.

From what I''ve learned, cut is the most important factor in brilliance. Very good to know, as I probably would have gone for a lower grade cut for a higher grade color.
 

Please, one last request for thoughts on this diamond. I received a copy of the grading report. Be advised that this is EGL graded. Is there any way to tell which country an EGL report came from?


1.93CT Round Brilliant
Price: $13,769
Measurements: 7.87 - 7.83 x 4.92mm
Total Depth 62.7
Table Width 56%
Crown Height 14%
Pavilion Depth 43%
Girdle: Medium, faceted
Polish: very good
Symmetry: Very good
Culet: none
Clarity:VS2
Graining: Nil
Golor Grade: G
Flourescence: None
Comments: Tolkowsky Ideal Cut
 
As far as the continuing debate on color, most people with a budget usually have to compromise somewhere. I''d say don''t compromise on the cut - I''d aim for AGS0 cut grade, or an "expert selection" from WF, or run the numbers through the cut advisor (see the tools, above) to get at least ex/ex/ex/vg.

I recently upgraded a smallish diamond that was very well cut. I honestly have no idea what color my original e-ring diamond is. Given our budget at the time, I''m sure it''s not D-E-F. It was just an in-house grade, and my now-husband does not even know what that in-house grade was. Now, I suppose if I REALLY scrutinize it, hold it up against a bright white sheet of paper, and try, I can sometimes see a bit of a tint at the culet (the little point at the bottom). I have never felt like it was ugly, dirty, yellow, or less attractive than other diamonds around me. In fact, because it is very well cut (and because I keep it very clean), it is a little fireball, and everyone (even jewelers) make a beeline to ask me about it. It''s certainly a less-ideal color, but an ideal cut, so it''s got serious wow-factor.

Assuming that you won''t compromise on cut, then you have to compromise on size, color, or clarity. It kind of depends on your age and social circle. If you''re older, your vision is not as good, so you might go lower in clarity. For a brand new, first diamond (not an upgrade or right-hand ring), a new diamond owner is probably going to scrutinize it very closely (like, almost microscopically, and lots of ladies buy their own loupes). I''d say make sure it''s at least "eye clean" (and clarify with the vendor what they mean by that - the distance the stone has to be from your eye to see inclusions). I''d be more comfortable with a very clean SI1 or a VS2 for a first diamond. But others think that you see the overall body of the diamond more, and may be more color sensitive, so they''d rather pay for higher color, assuming that you''d have to be nose to ring to see the inclusions, anyway. To each his own.

If time is not an issue for you (and it''s probably just about too late to propose for the holidays at this point), why not order a super-ideal cut stone in a lower (maybe H-I or even J) color, from an online vendor with a good return policy, and see if color bothers you? The worst color you''ll ever see is unmounted, from the sides or bottom, in office lighting. The "test a color" experiments at your local jewelers can be hit and miss, because they generally don''t stock ideal cut stones, which will make a huge difference in how you perceive any color face up in the diamond. How the diamond is set is another issue - if you get a setting that conceals the side view of the diamond (maybe with a ring of other diamonds around it, or some other metal work detail, or bezel set with a halo), body color should be less of an issue.
 
Date: 12/17/2007 3:40:34 PM
Author: mpark46

Please, one last request for thoughts on this diamond. I received a copy of the grading report. Be advised that this is EGL graded. Is there any way to tell which country an EGL report came from?



1.93CT Round Brilliant

Price: $13,769

Measurements: 7.87 - 7.83 x 4.92mm

Total Depth 62.7

Table Width 56%

Crown Height 14%

Pavilion Depth 43%

Girdle: Medium, faceted

Polish: very good

Symmetry: Very good

Culet: none

Clarity:VS2

Graining: Nil

Golor Grade: G

Flourescence: None

Comments: Tolkowsky Ideal Cut

Click to expand...
It''s suspiciously cheap. Very suspiciously cheap. Does the report have crown and pavillion angles, or just percentages? Angles are more accurate. Also, it should say EGL Israel or EGL USA or something like that in the letterhead at top. Who''s the vendor?
 
Date: 12/17/2007 3:40:34 PM
Author: mpark46

Please, one last request for thoughts on this diamond. I received a copy of the grading report. Be advised that this is EGL graded. Is there any way to tell which country an EGL report came from?



1.93CT Round Brilliant
Price: $13,769
Measurements: 7.87 - 7.83 x 4.92mm
Total Depth 62.7
Table Width 56%
Crown Height 14%
Pavilion Depth 43%
Girdle: Medium, faceted
Polish: very good
Symmetry: Very good
Culet: none
Clarity:VS2
Graining: Nil
Golor Grade: G
Flourescence: None

Comments: Tolkowsky Ideal Cut
Click to expand...
I emailed them about the clarity and here is what they said: "There is a very small hairline feather on the girdle that just barley touches the surface of the diamond, but it will not affect the beauty or the durability. (when I say hairline I mean tiny even at 10X)"

What do you guys think??
 
Date: 12/17/2007 3:58:34 PM
Author: milton333

It''s suspiciously cheap. Very suspiciously cheap. Does the report have crown and pavillion angles, or just percentages? Angles are more accurate. Also, it should say EGL Israel or EGL USA or something like that in the letterhead at top. Who''s the vendor?
Click to expand...
It''s the diamond I listed earlier... http://www.uniondiamond.com/diamonds/diamonds.php?search_type_id=2&action_type_id=2&item_id=AA566062&&1.91ct-F-VS2-Round-Brilliant-Cut-Diamond
 
Date: 12/17/2007 1:54:49 PM
Author: aljdewey
For balance, I want to emphasize that there are a TON of SI stones that have no visible inclusions to the naked eye.

When you're working with top-make SI stones, I'd expect the majority don't have 'visible' inclusions if you aren't looking with a loupe.
Click to expand...
I have to agree. I have a J, SI2 and it's totally colorless, even from the side, and it's eye clean. Mine doesn't have any inclusions on the table so perhaps that is what makes it eye clean. I can pick them easily with my loupe but totally eye clean without it!

Also, I have a small table- 53%- and my diamond is gorgeous!

ETA: I have medium blue flour. so that may be why mine shows no warmth.
 
Date: 12/17/2007 4:00:41 PM
Author: mpark46
I emailed them about the clarity and here is what they said: ''There is a very small hairline feather on the girdle that just barley touches the surface of the diamond, but it will not affect the beauty or the durability. (when I say hairline I mean tiny even at 10X)''


What do you guys think??
Click to expand...

I would be very careful. Almost every stone that I looked at that looked good on paper but whose price seemed to good to be true really was too good to be true...usually an ugly, black inclusion somewhere visible or a less-than-ideal cut. Fortunately, I went through Whiteflash, and they pushed the sellers for accurate descriptions, personally inspected the non-in-house diamonds I thought most promising, and sent me pics, idealscope images, and sarin reports. I''d suggest you use a vendor that is willing to do this for you (WF, Good Old Gold, James Allen come to mind).
 
Sorry to keep bugging you folks!

Any thoughts on this diamond? Here are the specs...basically I haven''t trained myself yet to the ins and outs of clarity and would like your thoughts on this particular SI2. For an SI2, it looks good to me, but then again I''m not the best judge. What do you guys think?

Item Number: 1046711
Shape: Round
Carat weight: 1.71
Cut: Hearts & Arrows Ideal
Color: E
Clarity: SI2
Certificate: GIA

Depth: 62.2%
Table: 56.0%
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Girdle: Thin to slightly thick
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 7.63*7.65*4.75

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/E-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1046711.asp
 
Status
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.
GET 3 FREE HCA RESULTS JOIN THE FORUM. ASK FOR HELP
Jewelry Blog
PriceScope-Concierge-Ad
Find prime cuts.
Top