Which diamond should I NOT buy?

[acaneb1164]

Hello all. I'm done reading and need to decide. I'm buying a stone locally for my upcoming engagement and the ones below all look beautiful. I know all about the ideal proportion ranges and the importance of cut, etc. but still would love some feedback from the experts on whether they feel any of these stones should not be considered amongst the others based on what you see here.
I don't want a cert to tell me what stone to buy but since they're at different stores I can't look at them all side by side and see if one stands out or doesn't stack up. I'm looking for a beautiful stone that will perform well in the daylight or the office as opposed to just the jewelry store. If they're all going to be beautiful, I'll go for the size! Please help.
p.s. I've had trouble getting crown and pav angles out of dealer 1 and dealer 3 but I did like my overall experiences there (esp. dealer 3). Thank you!!!

Diamond 1 - $1860 (Dealer # 1)
.48 carat RB with GIA cert (inscribed)
Clarity: VVS2 (Feather, Pinpoint)
Color: H
4.98 – 5.01 x 3.17 mm
Depth 63.5%
Table 57%
Crown angle: 34.5
Pav angle: 40.75
Girdle: Meduim/Faceted
Culet: None
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Flour: None

Diamond 2 - $2150 (Dealer #2)
.45 carat RB with AGS cert (inscribed)
Proportions: Ideal (Andre Lazar cut?)
Clarity: VS2 (Pinpoints)
Color: H
4.97 – 5.01 x 3.05 mm
Table: 56%
Depth: 61.1%
Girdle: 1.0% to 1/6% faceted
Crown angle: 34.9 deg
Pav Angle: 40.8 deg
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal

Diamond 3 - $1990 (Dealer # 3)
.53 carat RB with GIA cert (not inscribed)
Clarity: VS2
Color: E
5.22 –5.27 x 3.26 mm
Depth: 62.2%
Table: 56%
Girdle: Thin
Culet: none
Polish: Good
Symmetry: Good
Fluor: none

Diamond 4 - $2035 (Dealer # 3)
.59 carat RB with GIA cert (inscribed)
Clarity: VS2
Color: F
5.44 – 5.53 x 3.26
Depth: 59.4%
Table: 58%
Girdle: Thin to Slightly thick
Culet: none
Polish: Good
Symmetry: Good
Fluor: None

 

[valeria101]

Since only one diamond has those angles, no way these can be used to select among stones...

So, based only on GIA cert data, diamonds #1 and #4 "sound" not so great...

#1 is quite deep at 63.5%, and this is not helping it look big.
#4 should be same unusual sight with girdle going from thin to thick: GIA's "good" symmetry does allow this, but the stone's light return usually gets hit. These I would not consider.

Between the remaining stones... it's hard to tell without comparable data, but there is no detraction I can read about diamond #3. The available stats alone of #2 are ok. Stone #2 Gets hit on price: from E to H color is quite a jump down, and this still makes it more expensive than the others. A branded cut explains this, but may not justify it, in my view.

Sorry to put it this way, but here's one 0.47 cts, F-VS2 H&A with all the bells and whistles for somewhat less than your cheapest... This stone (and others, of course) combines the high color and clarity of your #1,3,4 with a great cut as #2 has for good value. And this is no exception around here: a quick serach for "known H&A" (as the Pricescope search engine is labeled) within the parameters: Excellent cut ( AGS0 and/or H&A ) 0.45 - 0.55 cts, E - F color, VS1 - VS2 clarity; found 23 stones priced from $1300 to $2200. The "look" of the Lazare stone you found would be a good "sample" for these, but the cost ain't. Of course, just my 0.2 o this...

 

[pqcollectibles]

You can do a lot better for price and get a great cut from any of a number of Price Scope Vendors.

Check out this link:

http://www.pricescope.com/sift.asp

This is the "Search by Known Holloway Cut Adviser Rating" Search Engine. Just enter your carat weight, color and clarity, and you'll get a whole list of known performers available. I entered 0.45 to .71 carat, F to J color, and VS1 to SI2 clarity, and got 97 diamonds ranging in price from $750 to $2189.

You have lots of options available from great Vendors that will give you all the information you need to make an informed buying decision. All the Vendors have great return policies, and some even offer buy back and lifetime upgrades as well.

 

[hoorray]

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On 2/16/2004 11:18:03 AM pqcollectibles wrote:

You can do a lot better for price and get a great cut from any of a number of Price Scope Vendors.
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Agreed. You can get better quality at 50 - 70% of the price from the online vendors, and you can make an informed decision since they will give you all the angles and often more. Or, you can let your $2000 buy bigger and better.

I understand that many people aren't comfortable buying something as expensive and important as a diamond online, but if you've read enough here, you'll see that it can be completely safe. I did it last summer, and my husband is convinced that we saved huge $$. The best process is to start talking to one or more vendors who have stones that meet your criteria. Let them be your eyes initially to narrow down your search. Then have them send one or two to a local independent appraiser where you can go view it/them with an expert to make a final decision -- BEFORE you pay. THis takes the risk out of the process and opens up your options tremendously.

 

[acaneb1164]

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On 2/16/2004 10:58:26 AM valeria101 wrote:


Sorry to put it this way, but here's one 0.47 cts, F-VS2 H&A with all the bells and whistles for somewhat less than your cheapest... And this is no exception around here: a quick serach for 'known H&A' (as the Pricescope search engine is labeled) within the parameters: Excellent cut ( AGS0 and/or H&A ) 0.45 - 0.55 cts, E - F color, VS1 - VS2 clarity; found 23 stones priced from $1300 to $2200. The 'look' of the Lazare stone you found would be a good 'sample' for these, but the cost ain't. Of course, just my 0.2 o this...

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The price on that stone and the range you give does beat the B&Ms I'm shopping at but factors I'm nervous about with online buying are:
1) service, free cleanings, etc
2) seeing the diamond before I buy it

Not to say there's no way I'd buy from online but I'll have to go check out their return policy and see what I'm in for if the stone is not all I imagine (heck, I don't even have a 10x loupe).
Thanks again for your feedback!

 

[valeria101]

I woudl not worry much about that 'post buy service" - they are not worse all that much, since jewelry does not really need as much tuning as a car! Seeing the stone is an issue, and this is why all these tests are for, really. Best of luck!

 

[acaneb1164]

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On 2/16/2004 11:28:58 AM lop wrote:

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The best process is to start talking to one or more vendors who have stones that meet your criteria. Let them be your eyes initially to narrow down your search. Then have them send one or two to a local independent appraiser where you can go view it/them with an expert to make a final decision -- BEFORE you pay. THis takes the risk out of the process and opens up your options tremendously.
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Thanks for this recommendation. How long would this process take? What range of charges can I expect from the local appraiser? What approximate costs are there for having the stones sent in?

 

[fire&ice]

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On 2/16/2004 11:30:24 AM acaneb1164 wrote:

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On 2/16/2004 10:58:26 AM valeria101 wrote:


I'm nervous about with online buying are:
1) service, free cleanings, etc
2) seeing the diamond before I buy it

Not to say there's no way I'd buy from online but I'll have to go check out their return policy and see what I'm in for if the stone is not all I imagine (heck, I don't even have a 10x loupe).
Thanks again for your feedback!
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Servicing - buy yourself a $10.00 loupe & check the prongs yourself

Cleaning - sudsy ammonia & a soft toothbrush then blow dry

If you don't want to do this yourself, most jewelers would be happy to check out the ring & clean it.

As far as seeing the stone, many vendors offer 30 day return policies. And, you said yourself you can not compare the stones.

BTW, none seem stellar in quality or price.

good luck!

 

[hoorray]

"How long would this process take?"
It can be done pretty quickly -- I would expect probably a couple of weeks is reasonable. Less if you really have to rush it, and more if you want to take your time to find just the right stone.

"What range of charges can I expect from the local appraiser?"
It depends on the appraiser and how extensive the appraisal is. SOme charge $40 - $50 to verify the stone is what they said it is and give you a basic appraisal document. Others do extensive testing and give you a very thorough write-up and charge more in the $100 - $150 range. There is a link to list of appraisers by area on the main Pricescope page.

"What approximate costs are there for having the stones sent in?"
It depends on the vendor, but most will only charge you the return shipping if you do not purchase the stone. Typically $50 - $75 I think.

 

[pqcollectibles]

I got a custom made ring from White Flash. White Flash only took 8 days to make the ring. It took me a couple weeks to decide on the diamond. If you select a ready made setting, the process could go much quicker. Unless you choose a Vatche setting. Vatche and some other custom designers require to set the diamond themselves.

As far as purchasing on the Net, you couldn't be safer when dealing with a reputable Vendor. You can check out the list of PS Vendors by clicking on the Vendors link at the top of the page. Take some time to surf their websites, and compare policies for returns, refunds, life time upgrades, and buy backs. Then you can search past PS Forum threads by Vendor name and read other's buying experiences.

 

[glitterata]

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1) service, free cleanings, etc

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I go into my local jewelry store from time to time with my ring, which was most certainly not purchased there. (It was my grandmother's engagement ring.) The jeweler is always happy to clean it and tighten the prongs. When I offer to pay, he waves me out of the shop.

(It's not like he gets absolutely nothing out of it-- when I have a smaller purchase to make, I buy from him. But I was a stranger when I first took my ring in there to have the prongs tightened.)

 

[hoorray]

I have never been to a good jeweler who didn't volunteer to clean and examine my jewelery for free while I "browsed", regardless if they had ever seen me before. It's just good customer service to try to cultivate a new customer. It has $0 value in the buying process, so don't get sucked in by that.

 

[acaneb1164]

NOTE: Dealer 1 had their buyer measure the angles on Diamond 1, so I now have other info in my original post about the crown and pav angles. Also, dealer 3 says they do not have someone on site who can accurately measure the crown and pavillion angles. They are a very high volume local store. Should this concern me?

Last question, does the hearts and arrows scope tell you more how close a diamond is to a certain set of proportions that create hearts and arrows, or would a well cut symmetrical diamond out of the ideal range still demonstrate a hearts and arrows pattern. Basically is a well formed hearts and arrows pattern indication of a quality cut (facet alignment, symmetry, etc) or a certain set of proportions.

 

[valeria101]

The extra numbers on #1 look good enough to me... You would get a better price online, as above mentioned, but if holding the stone is important, than this one seems to be quite attractive (leaving aside the depth issue).

The H&A pattern is there to demonstrate that the stone's symmetry is great and that the proportions of the cut fall within a certain range where best light return is achievable. Stones with "approximate" harts and arrows patterns can still have great light return though... It is generally accepted that the very best optics can be achieved within the H&A parameters alone, but the difference between "great but not H&A" and "perfect H&A" is up to you to judge, I am afraid. The Ideal Scope evaluates light return regardless of the presence of the H&A pattern and/or it's exactness. The tutorial on cut on this site contains some useful detail on how the H&A pattern is formed and what it stands for, much better told than my 0.2 here...

 

[Giangi]

I think that numbers in stone #1 don't add up... The girdle would have to be thick provided that the numbers you posted are correct.

#2 looks really nice... But EXPENSIVE...
Me, I would go with a 0.70 HIJ/SI 1... It should be doable within your budget. The color will face up fine and the size difference would be really noticeable. BUT, if I had to choose from one of those you posted, I would go w/#2, simply because it's the only one with full data.