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When Tradespeople Engage In Personal Attacks, Everyone Is A Loser

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Date: 5/13/2009 1:07:55 PM
Author: DiamondFlame
Iirc ''experts'' used to think that personal computing is pure fantasy, that there is only room for 2-3 supercomputers in the world.
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Let''s not get too hung up on ''facts''. The ''purists'' seem to hold on to the mistaken belief that every consumer wants the brightest sparkliest diamond and would point out that the angle combo is sub-optimal, ASET doesn''t look great, too much leakage etc. Take away the IS, ASET, HCA, C/P angles, etc and what do you have left? Someone who''s too afraid to trust his own eyes. Our forefathers have been buying and cutting great looking diamonds WITHOUT these technologies. I''m not sure if anyone could appreciate the possibiility that the IS, ASET, HCA stuff have already been ''factored in'' by the brain through years of experience. Computers are simply no match for the human mind. I''m not against the use of technology but they should not be the final word in assessing a diamond''s beauty. I''d much rather pick a diamond cut by a master craftsman over one cut through precision engineering.

Btw do you think that if you were to line up Pricescopers'' ''perfect'' H&As or RBs side by side, barring the size/color differences they probably look very much like ''clones'' of each other?
20.gif
Care to start such a thread in SMTR?
9.gif
I see this particular post has already been chewed on, but I''ll bite too. It''s not stating anything we haven''t heard before, but the sentiments never cease to amaze me.

Let''s take your comment that we assume every poster wants the brightest, sparkliest diamond. That''s not always the case, and there are those that let us know that, and we respect this when trying to help them. I''ve helped many a poster find just what they want. But, just for a minute, let me ask, why wouldn''t we assume that? Why would you want a less sparkly diamond?
33.gif
Isn''t that what they''re supposed to do? Isn''t that what the great cutters strive to achieve? Am I missing something??
9.gif



Then, if we take away all the technology we have, you ask what we''re left with. I''ll tell you what, a total crap shoot. Now we have nothing but some numbers. Hmmmm. And no stone in front of us. So we can''t have customers "choosing with their eyes". This one always cracks me up, and drives me nuts. You can''t use your eyes online anyway! Unless you have super human vision, in which case, get away from me you freak.
25.gif



Your last point touches on H&A rounds. Yes, all of our stones together might look very similar. And stunning.
5.gif
Yet, there will still be different personalities. You seem to suggest that my H&A looks like "everyone" elses, but it doesn''t, on here, and especially in real life. In the 3 years I''ve owned my H&A, I''ve never met a person in real life who owns one, and most have never even seen one. I''ve had complete strangers grab my hand and remark on how beautiful my stone is. Let me tell you, that never happened with my original ering. And that''s the one I picked "with my eyes". On it''s best day it never came close to my upgrade, or my new studs. Now, I am not knocking picking with your eyes, but it helps if you know what you''re looking at/for. I didn''t. I just saw sparkles under jewelers lighting, until we paid for it and left the store. I''m not saying it was a dud, just so so. It makes me kinda sad to know what I missed for 23 years, and thrilled to have what I have now. I wouldn''t trade it for the world. So you see, I and others, actually speak from experience also. Many of us have bought stones pre-pricescope, and after. We know what cut can mean, and we care about helping people find the most beautiful stone in their budget, while trying to work long distance. I think the many, many "thank you" threads, and SMTR threads are a testament to our efforts. Our "methods" don''t seem to matter to the posters shopping, especially in the end. So why should it matter so much to anyone else?

I am always puzzled at people who seem to get irritated at those of us who are interested in cut, who pay attention to details, who like to research and use newer technologies, and that we use all this to help posters. If people want to experience the fun and romance of choosing with their eyes, they can absolutely go shopping at real stores to do that. We are not stopping them, and I think we would all encourage them to do so! I have actually done that. *gasp* I understand why they might.
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But for those that come here asking for help, we will continue to do what we do. And we will continue doing it, because it works.
1.gif
 
Ellen- You have brought up many interesting aspects to the discussion about choosing a diamond.
I will be starting a thread, using actual diamonds- with ASET and IS images to discuss many of the points you raised....

But back to the topic:
Do you feel personally attacking someone with a different opinion is acceptable?
 
Date: 5/13/2009 5:18:16 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
Ellen- You have brought up many interesting aspects to the discussion about choosing a diamond.
I will be starting a thread, using actual diamonds- with ASET and IS images to discuss many of the points you raised....

But back to the topic:
Do you feel personally attacking someone with a different opinion is acceptable?
No, I would say truly "attacking" people about anything is never really acceptable. What a person feels is an "attack" could be somewhat subjective though....
 
Thanks for your comments, Ellen. I don''t know why some of the tradespeople find it so difficult to understand what we do on PS and why we approach helping people through the tools we have available. Another point I would like to make is the way our newer tradespeople are advising consumers about selecting stones. Our more experienced experts are more judicious about coming into to the individual threads, unless there is a specific question that the expert decides to address or is asked to comment by the poster. Their approach is generally calm and reasoned. It''s unusual, to me, to see the newer vendors popping up so often to give an opinion on the consumer threads and then argue with other consumers. It becomes a threadjack and no one''s interests are well served. I find it to be intrusive and unseemly to see a vendor behaving this way.
 
Army boots.
Sharmy boots!

Jo mama can't wait, so she swims out to meet Navy ships coming into port.
 
Anti-tech? That's kinda extreme, not to mention ridiculous since I'm posting on PS and not sending anyone postcards with itty bitty stamps on them for my posts.
5.gif
This is certainly not the thread for it but just to clarify I am not knocking anyone's H n A rounds. They are beautiful and despite the similarity in looks, can show up strikingly different personality esp in different lightings. And the vets here have done tremendous job in recommending beautiful diamonds to clueless buyers or those in a rush. I respect that and I agree with Ellen that it works, for the most part..

What some of us are championing is for a more inclusive and a greater width of consumer options. As I pointed out earlier, there is a tendency in PS to promote certain ideal range of angles and disregard marginally suboptimal ones leaving the consumer with fewer options to pick from. Sure, every customer wants the 'best'. But very often the 'best' is seldom defined by the customer but by the 'ideal angle combos' promoted here in PS. Given limited budget, the customer is usually recommended an optimal cut but had to sacrifice color or clarity when the alternative could have been a marginally sub-optimal cut but at the color/clarity desired by the consumer. My only fear is that in the quest for perfection (often read as optimal cut) customers may be missing out on other suboptimal, more affordable but no less attractive options. Would this not be a reasonable concern?

It's rare to see a recommendation that says: here's one with marginally less than ideal c/p angle combo but the IS looks good and meets your color, clarity and carat size requirements.

Pls educate me. Would a difference in angle of say 0.2 deg translates to a visibly noticeable difference in optics? How much in % terms would the diamond's brightness be diminished had the pav angle been off the sweet spot by 2 tenths of a degree?
 
Date: 5/13/2009 5:26:17 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 5/13/2009 5:18:16 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
Ellen- You have brought up many interesting aspects to the discussion about choosing a diamond.
I will be starting a thread, using actual diamonds- with ASET and IS images to discuss many of the points you raised....

But back to the topic:
Do you feel personally attacking someone with a different opinion is acceptable?
No, I would say truly ''attacking'' people about anything is never really acceptable. What a person feels is an ''attack'' could be somewhat subjective though....
Ellen- if it walks like a duck quacks like a duck and has feathers.....it''s generally a duck.
Are you saying you don''t feel that the attacks have been personal? No need to look further than page one of this thread.


Marion- if someone is asking about an IS or ASET- or even if the thread is about another participating vendor- I believe it''s not proper to comment, and generally do not get involved.


If there''s a general discussion about "how to select diamonds" then it would seem that a trades-person willing to add content enriches all the readers. You might want only vendors that you agree with, but wouldn''t that be less interesting- and educational?
 
Date: 5/13/2009 5:48:38 PM
Author: Moh 10
Army boots.
Sharmy boots!
Jo mama can''t wait, so she swims out to meet Navy ships coming into port.

LOL, last thing I ever expected to see in Rocky Talky is menfolk playin'' the dozens.
 
Date: 5/13/2009 5:53:19 PM
Author: DiamondFlame
Anti-tech? That''s kinda extreme, not to mention ridiculous since I''m posting on PS and not sending anyone postcards with itty bitty stamps on them for my posts.
5.gif
This is certainly not the thread for it but just to clarify I am not knocking anyone''s H n A rounds. They are beautiful and despite the similarity in looks, can show up strikingly different personality esp in different lightings. And the vets here have done tremendous job in recommending beautiful diamonds to clueless buyers or those in a rush. I respect that and I agree with Ellen that it works, for the most part..

What some of us are championing is for a more inclusive and a greater width of consumer options. As I pointed out earlier, there is a tendency in PS to promote certain ideal range of angles and disregard marginally suboptimal ones leaving the consumer with fewer options to pick from. Sure, every customer wants the ''best''. But very often the ''best'' is seldom defined by the customer but by the ''ideal angle combos'' promoted here in PS. Given limited budget, the customer is usually recommended an optimal cut but had to sacrifice color or clarity when the alternative could have been a marginally sub-optimal cut but at the color/clarity desired by the consumer. My only fear is that in the quest for perfection (often read as optimal cut) customers may be missing out on other suboptimal, more affordable but no less attractive options. Would this not be a reasonable concern?

It''s rare to see a recommendation that says: here''s one with marginally less than ideal c/p angle combo but the IS looks good and meets your color, clarity and carat size requirements. Would a difference in angle of say 0.2 deg really make such a visibly noticeable difference in optics?
It could. (every cliff has an edge, and then you fall off)

I understand what you''re saying, but I really don''t feel like that many people make that many sacrifices. There have definitely been occasions where I recommended a stone that would not fall in the top tier, because that''s what the poster wanted. No problem! But there are many who do say, I want the best diamond I can afford, and that''s what we help them find. They usually let us know what they''re aiming for.
 
Date: 5/13/2009 5:57:34 PM
Author: Rockdiamond

Date: 5/13/2009 5:26:17 PM
Author: Ellen


Date: 5/13/2009 5:18:16 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
Ellen- You have brought up many interesting aspects to the discussion about choosing a diamond.
I will be starting a thread, using actual diamonds- with ASET and IS images to discuss many of the points you raised....

But back to the topic:
Do you feel personally attacking someone with a different opinion is acceptable?
No, I would say truly ''attacking'' people about anything is never really acceptable. What a person feels is an ''attack'' could be somewhat subjective though....
Ellen- if it walks like a duck quacks like a duck and has feathers.....it''s generally a duck.
Are you saying you don''t feel that the attacks have been personal? No need to look further than page one of this thread.
I have definitely seen some of what I would call personal attacks. I''ve also seen some exchanges that I wouldn''t, but someone perceived them as such.
 
Date: 5/13/2009 5:53:19 PM
Author: DiamondFlame

Pls educate me. Would a difference in angle of say 0.2 deg translates to a visibly noticeable difference in optics? How much in % terms would the diamond''s brightness be diminished had the pav angle been off the sweet spot by 2 tenths of a degree?
Table brightness can be reduced by 20% in .2 degrees from 41 to 41.2 with some crown angles and table sizes.
Clearly visible.
But it is more complicated than that...
Start here,,,
http://journal.pricescope.com/Articles/68/1/Do-the-pavilion-mains-drive-light-return-in-the-modern-round-brilliant.aspx
 
Date: 5/13/2009 4:55:10 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 5/13/2009 1:07:55 PM
Author: DiamondFlame
Iirc ''experts'' used to think that personal computing is pure fantasy, that there is only room for 2-3 supercomputers in the world.
9.gif


Let''s not get too hung up on ''facts''. The ''purists'' seem to hold on to the mistaken belief that every consumer wants the brightest sparkliest diamond and would point out that the angle combo is sub-optimal, ASET doesn''t look great, too much leakage etc. Take away the IS, ASET, HCA, C/P angles, etc and what do you have left? Someone who''s too afraid to trust his own eyes. Our forefathers have been buying and cutting great looking diamonds WITHOUT these technologies. I''m not sure if anyone could appreciate the possibiility that the IS, ASET, HCA stuff have already been ''factored in'' by the brain through years of experience. Computers are simply no match for the human mind. I''m not against the use of technology but they should not be the final word in assessing a diamond''s beauty. I''d much rather pick a diamond cut by a master craftsman over one cut through precision engineering.

Btw do you think that if you were to line up Pricescopers'' ''perfect'' H&As or RBs side by side, barring the size/color differences they probably look very much like ''clones'' of each other?
20.gif
Care to start such a thread in SMTR?
9.gif
I see this particular post has already been chewed on, but I''ll bite too. It''s not stating anything we haven''t heard before, but the sentiments never cease to amaze me.

Let''s take your comment that we assume every poster wants the brightest, sparkliest diamond. That''s not always the case, and there are those that let us know that, and we respect this when trying to help them. I''ve helped many a poster find just what they want. But, just for a minute, let me ask, why wouldn''t we assume that? Why would you want a less sparkly diamond?
33.gif
Isn''t that what they''re supposed to do? Isn''t that what the great cutters strive to achieve? Am I missing something??
9.gif



Then, if we take away all the technology we have, you ask what we''re left with. I''ll tell you what, a total crap shoot. Now we have nothing but some numbers. Hmmmm. And no stone in front of us. So we can''t have customers ''choosing with their eyes''. This one always cracks me up, and drives me nuts. You can''t use your eyes online anyway! Unless you have super human vision, in which case, get away from me you freak.
25.gif



Your last point touches on H&A rounds. Yes, all of our stones together might look very similar. And stunning.
5.gif
Yet, there will still be different personalities. You seem to suggest that my H&A looks like ''everyone'' elses, but it doesn''t, on here, and especially in real life. In the 3 years I''ve owned my H&A, I''ve never met a person in real life who owns one, and most have never even seen one. I''ve had complete strangers grab my hand and remark on how beautiful my stone is. Let me tell you, that never happened with my original ering. And that''s the one I picked ''with my eyes''. On it''s best day it never came close to my upgrade, or my new studs. Now, I am not knocking picking with your eyes, but it helps if you know what you''re looking at/for. I didn''t. I just saw sparkles under jewelers lighting, until we paid for it and left the store. I''m not saying it was a dud, just so so. It makes me kinda sad to know what I missed for 23 years, and thrilled to have what I have now. I wouldn''t trade it for the world. So you see, I and others, actually speak from experience also. Many of us have bought stones pre-pricescope, and after. We know what cut can mean, and we care about helping people find the most beautiful stone in their budget, while trying to work long distance. I think the many, many ''thank you'' threads, and SMTR threads are a testament to our efforts. Our ''methods'' don''t seem to matter to the posters shopping, especially in the end. So why should it matter so much to anyone else?

I am always puzzled at people who seem to get irritated at those of us who are interested in cut, who pay attention to details, who like to research and use newer technologies, and that we use all this to help posters. If people want to experience the fun and romance of choosing with their eyes, they can absolutely go shopping at real stores to do that. We are not stopping them, and I think we would all encourage them to do so! I have actually done that. *gasp* I understand why they might.
2.gif


But for those that come here asking for help, we will continue to do what we do. And we will continue doing it, because it works.
1.gif
I think Ellen pretty much nailed it. While I myself am not in the h&a camp, there''s no way to sort through the thousands of virtual listings, so it''s much easier (and safer) to point one to a trusted vendor.
At least that way you know they''ll get something gorgeous and sparkly.

David- if you know a better way of helping a customer find a gorgeous stone, please share it with us. And don''t say "trust your eyes." We''ve covered that topic. Like Ellen, my husband picked out my first stone and thought it was quite nice in the store. Hell, i didn''t even know better until I made my first purchase from GOG and finally understood what excellent light return really meant. You couldn''t even compare the two.
Also, i''ve been lucky enough to purchase quite a few stones over the last few years and what they ALL have in common are their angles. I absolutely believe that a certain combination of numbers makes for a beautiful diamond. Now that''s not to say that there aren''t other combo''s out there, but I have yet to see one. So until I do, I wouldn''t recommend something outside of the "safe range." I''m also a firm believer in idealscope images. A simple tool that''s very telling.
Like i said earlier, not so big on perfect H&A''s as to me that''s just about ideal symmetry and less about light return, but i can totally understand how people appreciate the workmanship.


Back to the topic at hand: Yes, I believe that vendor on vendor bashing is disgusting. I understand how one might become frustrated but that''s no reason to get nasty. It also makes me think twice about purchasing when I see this behavior.
 
Elle- Thank you for asking.
As I said, I have already taken steps to illustrate some of what I''m talking about in terms of buying diamonds- in fact, there are two stones on the way to Dave Atlas who will be running sarins, and providing ASET and IS images.
Suffice it to say, no one in this thread has properly described my feeling about how to buy a gorgeous diamond.

Elle- one more question... you mentioned vendor bashing vendor is disgusting- I agree.
How about a consumer personally attacking a vendor?

Ellen- all due respect, but I did not understand your answer to the question.
You mention you''ve seen personal attacks, and statements taken as attacks that were not.
Do you feel that personal attacks have been leveled in this thread?
 
Thanks Strm. I guess since we are dealing with rather small rocks, even a teeny weeny fraction of a degree diff. may have a noticeable impact on the overall look. Wish there are videos tho...
 
David- No, while I don''t agree with consumers bashing any vendor, this is still a consumer forum and if they''ve had a bad experience with one, they''re perfectly entitled to post about it. I hope they can do it in a civilized way, but that''s not always going to be the case. Especially when views are so vastly different.

I do though take it all with a grain of salt. In the end, a consumers opinion will not deter me from working with a vendor. However, a vendor who consistently tries to prove their point by demeaning another vendor would totally turn me off.
 
Date: 5/13/2009 6:43:30 PM
Author: Rockdiamond

Ellen- all due respect, but I did not understand your answer to the question.
You mention you''ve seen personal attacks, and statements taken as attacks that were not.
Do you feel that personal attacks have been leveled in this thread?
Sorry, that was more of an "in general" answer, since I thought that''s what the thread was about. I saw one in here that could be perceieved as such, but, I really like Rich, so I wasn''t gonna say anything.
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In all seriousness, I see a couple that I think you might perceive as an attack. I don''t know that I''d go as far as to say they are "attackish*, more just rather blunt opinions. As I said before though, it''s rather subjective to an extent.
 
Date: 5/13/2009 4:18:08 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
Dmitri has a great point.
I have obtained a diamond with a 60% table- to compare to an AGS O cut grade.
I'll start a thread on that subject.
It would seem that discussing specifics of how to judge the diamond is off topic for this thread.

The subject of this thread is how personal attacks refelct badly on the person doing the attacking, and the forum itself.
The point is that attacking someone personally seems to be a very poor manner of having any type of discussion.

Purrfect- I ask this with all due respect- how do you feel about that point?
I believe I did address this early in the thread. If someone is making spurious claims then it is not a "personal attack" to point out that they are all wet, misinformed, or just plain deluded.

A "personal attack" is saying something like Your opinion sucks, you suck, your mom has really bad taste in army boots, and further you would sell an I3 to your best friend and call it ideal.

If said about someone, that would be personal.

I feel that people who are quick to claim "OMG personal attack...ackkkkkkkkkkk, I'm a victim, you're attacking me" are usually way off base. They can't differentiate between a clear disagreement and a personal attack. Whining is unbecoming IMO.

Vendors who whine are extremely unbecoming. It only serves to make me question their judgement in ALL things when they can't even hold their own without resorting to acting the victim.
 
Thanks for answering purrfect!

Elle-Chris: We agree that the mechanism for consumers discussing problems with a vendor is in the consumer''s best interest- and a great use of PS.
I think there''s a HUGE differnece between a consumer who''s had a bad purchase or shopping experience with a vendor, versus a forum disagreement with a vendor over principles.
In either case getting personal degrades the entire situation- but a vendor who''s done something unethical or dishonest deserves to be called out- I wholeheartedly agree with that.
 
Date: 5/13/2009 8:28:46 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
Thanks for answering purrfect!

Elle-Chris: We agree that the mechanism for consumers discussing problems with a vendor is in the consumer''s best interest- and a great use of PS.
I think there''s a HUGE differnece between a consumer who''s had a bad purchase or shopping experience with a vendor, versus a forum disagreement with a vendor over principles.
In either case getting personal degrades the entire situation- but a vendor who''s done something unethical or dishonest deserves to be called out- I wholeheartedly agree with that.
I think the place for a vendor to discuss his principles is on his own site or on his own thread on the forum. I do not think it is appropriate to argue about it in a consumer thread. It can derail the initial discussion and can cause a prolonged and acrimonious threadjack. I do not see this type of interaction with our long time vendors. You must know that you are pushing buttons when you do this, don''t you? Az men chazert tsu fil iber vi grecht men iz, vert men umgerecht.*

*If you repeat often enough that you''re right, you will discover that you are wrong.
 
Date: 5/12/2009 12:29:45 PM
Author: beach

I think one of the bigger issues is how so many PS members join up with certain members on every argument and form these elitist clicks. What happened to having your own opinion? It is like they wait for a particular person to say something then they all go to their defense LOL... It is very amusing and reminds me of high school.... Agreeing on every single topic? Come on...

I hear you. That does get annoying and when it happens it makes me think the people involved are more interested in congratulating each other (over and over) than in helping and educating the rest of us.
 
Date: 5/12/2009 12:29:45 PM
Author: beach

Another issue is how some PS members only compliment certain members and their rings etc... It leads me to believe that many of you actually keep lists of members you don''t want to talk too lol!!! Really??? I must say that PS is an interesting social experiment!! I have learned alot about diamonds on this forum but I have also learned alot about people and how they react in various interpersonal situations too. PS is a great place to learn, vent, get jealous, compliment others, get attacked, and learn how to post pictures..... So interesting and it is all free !!!
3.gif
yeah, i am on that list.
39.gif
 
Date: 5/13/2009 4:55:10 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 5/13/2009 1:07:55 PM
Author: DiamondFlame
Iirc ''experts'' used to think that personal computing is pure fantasy, that there is only room for 2-3 supercomputers in the world.
9.gif


Let''s not get too hung up on ''facts''. The ''purists'' seem to hold on to the mistaken belief that every consumer wants the brightest sparkliest diamond and would point out that the angle combo is sub-optimal, ASET doesn''t look great, too much leakage etc. Take away the IS, ASET, HCA, C/P angles, etc and what do you have left? Someone who''s too afraid to trust his own eyes. Our forefathers have been buying and cutting great looking diamonds WITHOUT these technologies. I''m not sure if anyone could appreciate the possibiility that the IS, ASET, HCA stuff have already been ''factored in'' by the brain through years of experience. Computers are simply no match for the human mind. I''m not against the use of technology but they should not be the final word in assessing a diamond''s beauty. I''d much rather pick a diamond cut by a master craftsman over one cut through precision engineering.

Btw do you think that if you were to line up Pricescopers'' ''perfect'' H&As or RBs side by side, barring the size/color differences they probably look very much like ''clones'' of each other?
20.gif
Care to start such a thread in SMTR?
9.gif
I see this particular post has already been chewed on, but I''ll bite too. It''s not stating anything we haven''t heard before, but the sentiments never cease to amaze me.

Let''s take your comment that we assume every poster wants the brightest, sparkliest diamond. That''s not always the case, and there are those that let us know that, and we respect this when trying to help them. I''ve helped many a poster find just what they want. But, just for a minute, let me ask, why wouldn''t we assume that? Why would you want a less sparkly diamond?
33.gif
Isn''t that what they''re supposed to do? Isn''t that what the great cutters strive to achieve? Am I missing something??
9.gif



Then, if we take away all the technology we have, you ask what we''re left with. I''ll tell you what, a total crap shoot. Now we have nothing but some numbers. Hmmmm. And no stone in front of us. So we can''t have customers ''choosing with their eyes''. This one always cracks me up, and drives me nuts. You can''t use your eyes online anyway! Unless you have super human vision, in which case, get away from me you freak.
25.gif



Your last point touches on H&A rounds. Yes, all of our stones together might look very similar. And stunning.
5.gif
Yet, there will still be different personalities. You seem to suggest that my H&A looks like ''everyone'' elses, but it doesn''t, on here, and especially in real life. In the 3 years I''ve owned my H&A, I''ve never met a person in real life who owns one, and most have never even seen one. I''ve had complete strangers grab my hand and remark on how beautiful my stone is. Let me tell you, that never happened with my original ering. And that''s the one I picked ''with my eyes''. On it''s best day it never came close to my upgrade, or my new studs. Now, I am not knocking picking with your eyes, but it helps if you know what you''re looking at/for. I didn''t. I just saw sparkles under jewelers lighting, until we paid for it and left the store. I''m not saying it was a dud, just so so. It makes me kinda sad to know what I missed for 23 years, and thrilled to have what I have now. I wouldn''t trade it for the world. So you see, I and others, actually speak from experience also. Many of us have bought stones pre-pricescope, and after. We know what cut can mean, and we care about helping people find the most beautiful stone in their budget, while trying to work long distance. I think the many, many ''thank you'' threads, and SMTR threads are a testament to our efforts. Our ''methods'' don''t seem to matter to the posters shopping, especially in the end. So why should it matter so much to anyone else?

I am always puzzled at people who seem to get irritated at those of us who are interested in cut, who pay attention to details, who like to research and use newer technologies, and that we use all this to help posters. If people want to experience the fun and romance of choosing with their eyes, they can absolutely go shopping at real stores to do that. We are not stopping them, and I think we would all encourage them to do so! I have actually done that. *gasp* I understand why they might.
2.gif


But for those that come here asking for help, we will continue to do what we do. And we will continue doing it, because it works.
1.gif
Huge ditto to the above.
 
Date: 5/14/2009 12:24:45 AM
Author: Imdanny



Date: 5/12/2009 12:29:45 PM
Author: beach

I think one of the bigger issues is how so many PS members join up with certain members on every argument and form these elitist clicks. What happened to having your own opinion? It is like they wait for a particular person to say something then they all go to their defense LOL... It is very amusing and reminds me of high school.... Agreeing on every single topic? Come on...

I hear you. That does get annoying and when it happens it makes me think the people involved are more interested in congratulating each other (over and over) than in helping and educating the rest of us.
I would like to know how you would help a newcomer find a diamond. I'm coming to you for help, what do you do? I have had guidance from Ellen and Lorelei and bought two stunning stones. That is not elitist or self congratulatory. It's a fact from real world performance and feedback. People used to say thank you for getting assistance from PS. If you don't want advice, don't take it. I don't understand this undertone that has been coming onto this site lately.
 
Glad we could be of help Marian, thank you.
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Date: 5/14/2009 9:46:16 AM
Author: Ellen
Glad we could be of help Marian, thank you.
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Ditto Ellen, I also thank you Marian.
 
Two minor notes:

1) David, you''ve indicated: "As I said, I have already taken steps to illustrate some of what I''m talking about in terms of buying diamonds- in fact, there are two stones on the way to Dave Atlas who will be running sarins, and providing ASET and IS images." You may want to double check, as your name sake may work memorex vs live; it''s worth double checking. I''m just sayin...

2) Marian...


Date: 5/14/2009 12:11:56 AM
Author: risingsun

Date: 5/13/2009 8:28:46 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
Thanks for answering purrfect!

Elle-Chris: We agree that the mechanism for consumers discussing problems with a vendor is in the consumer''s best interest- and a great use of PS.
I think there''s a HUGE differnece between a consumer who''s had a bad purchase or shopping experience with a vendor, versus a forum disagreement with a vendor over principles.
In either case getting personal degrades the entire situation- but a vendor who''s done something unethical or dishonest deserves to be called out- I wholeheartedly agree with that.
I think the place for a vendor to discuss his principles is on his own site or on his own thread on the forum. I do not think it is appropriate to argue about it in a consumer thread. It can derail the initial discussion and can cause a prolonged and acrimonious threadjack. I do not see this type of interaction with our long time vendors. You must know that you are pushing buttons when you do this, don''t you? Az men chazert tsu fil iber vi grecht men iz, vert men umgerecht.*

*If you repeat often enough that you''re right, you will discover that you are wrong.
Oui...
 
RisingSun,

You said: "Az men chazert tsu fil iber vi grecht men iz, vert men umgerecht".*

I read this comment this morning over a muffin (not good for my diet but you only live once..) and it brought a huge smile to my lips!! My Grandmother of blessed memory, used to say the EXACT same thing!

I thought to myself, "A landsman"! (* means fellow compatriot in Yiddish, for the benefit of those who don''t speak it)

"Gebensht zolst du zein!" (*you should be blessed) and thanks for opening a floodgate of seet memories.
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.
 
Date: 5/14/2009 10:04:09 AM
Author: Regular Guy
Two minor notes:

1) David, you''ve indicated: ''As I said, I have already taken steps to illustrate some of what I''m talking about in terms of buying diamonds- in fact, there are two stones on the way to Dave Atlas who will be running sarins, and providing ASET and IS images.'' You may want to double check, as your name sake may work memorex vs live; it''s worth double checking. I''m just sayin...

2) Marian...



Date: 5/14/2009 12:11:56 AM
Author: risingsun


Date: 5/13/2009 8:28:46 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
Thanks for answering purrfect!

Elle-Chris: We agree that the mechanism for consumers discussing problems with a vendor is in the consumer''s best interest- and a great use of PS.
I think there''s a HUGE differnece between a consumer who''s had a bad purchase or shopping experience with a vendor, versus a forum disagreement with a vendor over principles.
In either case getting personal degrades the entire situation- but a vendor who''s done something unethical or dishonest deserves to be called out- I wholeheartedly agree with that.
I think the place for a vendor to discuss his principles is on his own site or on his own thread on the forum. I do not think it is appropriate to argue about it in a consumer thread. It can derail the initial discussion and can cause a prolonged and acrimonious threadjack. I do not see this type of interaction with our long time vendors. You must know that you are pushing buttons when you do this, don''t you? Az men chazert tsu fil iber vi grecht men iz, vert men umgerecht.*

*If you repeat often enough that you''re right, you will discover that you are wrong.
Oui...
Ira~you''re a mensch
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Date: 5/14/2009 10:24:41 AM
Author: Judah Gutwein
RisingSun,

You said: ''Az men chazert tsu fil iber vi grecht men iz, vert men umgerecht''.*

I read this comment this morning over a muffin (not good for my diet but you only live once..) and it brought a huge smile to my lips!! My Grandmother of blessed memory, used to say the EXACT same thing!

I thought to myself, ''A landsman''! (* means fellow compatriot in Yiddish, for the benefit of those who don''t speak it)

''Gebensht zolst du zein!'' (*you should be blessed) and thanks for opening a floodgate of seet memories.
21.gif


.
I am indeed a landsman
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My wonderful Catholic husband buys me books on Yiddish phrases. Since my parents passing, I''ve lost touch with the language. Reading these books is starting to bring it back. I''m glad it brought a smile to your lips! Now, eat an English muffin, it''s better for your health, nu?
 
Date: 5/14/2009 10:43:40 AM
Author: risingsun
I am indeed a landsman
1.gif
My wonderful Catholic husband buys me books on Yiddish phrases. Since my parents passing, I''ve lost touch with the language. Reading these books is starting to bring it back. I''m glad it brought a smile to your lips! Now, eat an English muffin, it''s better for your health, nu?
Killjoy.
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