When are stereotypes bad?

[ericad]

It's me with the gay brother. I mentioned it because I was looking for examples of groups I feel a part of, like being Indian, female, etc., in order to make a point.

I actually didn't know you are gay, Kenny - I read your posts but never picked up on that. Sheesh - were practically related now!

I often post the way I speak too, and I'm a very sarcastic person. Forum friends who "know" me pick up on this, but it's also often misinterpreted. That's just the way it goes.

 

[kenny]

Hey Go-friend.

I guess I fit a stereotype.

Gay guys and diamonds.

 

[packrat]

Hey, I have a gay friend-maybe you guys know him?

 

[kenny]

Date: 12/31/2009 8:14:51 PM
Author: packrat
Hey, I have a gay friend-maybe you guys know him?

Hey I know one straight person.
Maybe you know him.

 

[packrat]

Yes! Straight Guy Ted, right? I DO know him! Small world! hehehe

 

[Sabine]

When I was teaching English I often did a lesson on stereotypes because I taught that authors often relied on commonly known stereotypes to convey information about characters without directly saying it "archetypes" and such.

I would often have the kids then connect it to their real life and would ask them the same question...why are stereotypes a bad thing if they are usually based on general truths?

What we often came up with was that stereotyping is inevitable and not really bad unless you stick to a stereotype when an individual is proving to be different, you judge someone based on the stereotype before you really know them, or if you refuse to accept that not every person in a group is going to fit the stereotype.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

In medicine we don't like to say we "Stereotype", but we do acknowledge valid patterns and correlations because it would be irresponsible and dumb for us not to.

For example, if we see a Jewish couple come in for counseling about a pregnancy, we will naturally bring up the topic of Tay Sachs (something that is found in much higher rates in Jewish families) where we might not if it were Asian parents. That's a fairly cut and dry example that most people wouldn't find controversial. There are certain diseases that run more in certain ethnic groups, and ignoring that fact could prove dangerous.

More controversial perhaps is factoring sexual orientation or ethnicity when we make a list of possible explanations for a patient's disease. For example, homosexual men in the past have had a statistical association with HIV, and so when seeing an openingly gay man for a first check up, a doctor at that time might be more aware about screening for HIV than he might if it were a straight person. So there is a question of whether sexual orientation should be entered in a patient's write up, because does it really matter? On one hand, we don't want to stereotype, on the other hand we don't want to blind ourselves to a very real correlation for the sake of being "PC".

ETA: I fit a lot of asian-woman stereotypes: smart, can't drive, plays piano, does "kung fu". Haha.

Speaking of oppressed, everytime I come back to China, it makes me so grateful to be living in America! The homophobia, disregard for mental diseases, basic repression of human rights...ugh.

 

[kenny]

Many gays do NOT want their orientation entered into their medical records.
It may leak out during future medical insurance applications or even job interviews - computer data bases being what they are.
You may trust a person but NEVER trust the confidentiality of a computer database when money is at stake.

My doctor puts a colored dot on our folders.
Nobody but him knows the meaning of it.
He says he will take the secret to his grave.

Edit, I read somewherer gays are actually cheaper to insure overall since they are less likely to have kids.

 

[miraclesrule]

I knew he was gay the minute he talked about setting the Octavia in a man''s ring and it wasn''t for him.

See how smart I am?

Seriously though, I just got into a back and forth with my former mentor who is now retired. He sent out a mass email regarding the media surprise over the people in Roseville who didn''t loot the Safeway on Christmas, instead leaving money on the counter. He went into this entire demographic study about their average annual income, their education, their "whiteness" and even mentioned "no gays". He referenced "Ozzie and Harriet" and wished for a time capsule to take him back to 1950.

As a child of a gay father in a mixed race relationship, I had to nearly glue my hands behind my back so I didn''t burn up the keyboard with a retort.

I did respond. I won''t even stoop to tell you what his reply was, but I think I nailed him on my last reply because he shut up. Okay I will share one tidbit...he told me to be honest, when I hear of looting I think "black"

No, I told him...I think of Bernie Madoff.

To answer the question....stereotypes are generally bad.....

 

[MakingTheGrade]

Date: 12/31/2009 8:48:05 PM
Author: kenny
Many gays do NOT want their orientation entered into their medical records.

It may leak out during future medical insurance applications or even job interviews - computer data bases being what they are.

You may trust a person but NEVER trust the confidentiality of a computer database when money is at stake.


My doctor puts a colored dot on our folders.

Nobody but him knows the meaning of it.

He says he will take the secret to his grave.

The colored dot thing is interesting, will make a note for future reference if you don't mind. I personally haven't gotten to that stage in training, but will certainly keep it in mind. I identify as bisexual, but am married to a man, so I almost never really get asked these things since it's assumed that since I'm married to a man I must be straight, haha. The problem with the colored dot thing is that many large institutions are converting to an "all electronic" system, in which case there isn't anything to put a dot on... I guess at which point we ask the patient for their preferences after giving them the possible risks and benefits of that information from a medical standpoint?

I don't think we write it down in records explicitly (there's no check box or anything), but sometimes during oral discussions it might come up, especially if it's relevant to deciding on treatments and prognosis (some strains of diseases are more prevalent in the homosexual population, and behave a little differently, which can be important). It's definitely a sensitive topic and we try to tread as carefully as possible, while at the same time not ignoring what could be an important factor.

 

[ericad]

Date: 12/31/2009 8:50:31 PM
Author: miraclesrule
I knew he was gay the minute he talked about setting the Octavia in a man''s ring and it wasn''t for him.

See how smart I am?


Seriously though, I just got into a back and forth with my former mentor who is now retired. He sent out a mass email regarding the media surprise over the people in Roseville who didn''t loot the Safeway on Christmas, instead leaving money on the counter. He went into this entire demographic study about their average annual income, their education, their ''whiteness'' and even mentioned ''no gays''. He referenced ''Ozzie and Harriet'' and wished for a time capsule to take him back to 1950.


As a child of a gay father in a mixed race relationship, I had to nearly glue my hands behind my back so I didn''t burn up the keyboard with a retort.


I did respond. I won''t even stoop to tell you what his reply was, but I think I nailed him on my last reply because he shut up. Okay I will share one tidbit...he told me to be honest, when I hear of looting I think ''black''

No, I told him...I think of Bernie Madoff.


To answer the question....stereotypes are generally bad.....

LOL, I never managed to get past all of his amazing photos in order to read any of the text. All those beautiful, tasteful pics - that should have been my tip off right there!!!

BWHAHAHAHAHA. We crack me up.

See, some humorous stereotyping is fine because it''s not hurtful. Other types of stereotyping can be hurtful. It''s a gray area and each situation is different. It really just depends. As a society, though, I think it''s our responsibility to call people out on the hurtful kind. How else will we improve?

Have I mentioned that not all Indian men treat women poorly and have little respect for them?

[insert beating-a-dead-horse emoticon here]

PS - Kenny, Octavia is AMAZING! Hubba-hubba. Wonder if they''ll ever cut any big ones in a nice low color, K/L/M range, 3-4 carat size...hmmmmm...

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 12/31/2009 8:11:31 PM
Author: kenny

Hey Go-friend.

I guess I fit a stereotype.

Gay guys and diamonds.

is that true?

only gay men love diamonds?

 

[Regular Guy]

I think stereotypes are bad, when there is too likely a chance that people will incorrectly attribute misinformation with the labelling.

I identify as a buddhist. There''s not often occasions to even share this, but...at least when I have had the opportunity, I have been less than willing, because of the mis-attributions people would make as a result.

Isn''t this most of what the hubbub is about with stereotyping?

 

[kenny]

No stereotypes are absolute.

I think it would be safe to say if you lined up 1000 random straight men and 1000 random gay men more of the gay men would fit gay stereotypes than the straight men.
But still, people get their panties in such a wad over this.

Everyone knows stereotypes do not apply to everyone in a group; nobody with a brain thinks they do.
But they can apply to a majority of the group.
No big deal.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 1/1/2010 1:24:28 AM
Author: kenny
No stereotypes are absolute.



I just don''t get why people get their panties in such a wad over this.


Everyone knows stereotypes do not apply to everyone in a group; nobody with a brain thinks they do.

But they can apply to a majority of the group.

No big deal.

bingo.

Stereotypes are bad when people don''t acknowledge that they exist for certain reasons, and take things way too seriously, and choose to yell fire where none actually exists.

 

[iheartscience]

I think stereotypes are only bad when that''s all a person thinks about when they think of a group. I do think some stereotypes exist for a reason. However, I realize that a stereotype doesn''t fit every person (or even most people) of a particular group. Many people don''t realize that, and that''s when they become bad.

 

[pennquaker09]

Date: 12/31/2009 5:18:44 PM
Author: elrohwen

Date: 12/31/2009 4:52:15 PM

Author: Mara

I say all the time that that our kid will probably come out looking just like my husband (very light skinned) and that people will think I am the nanny. I am saying it jokingly but you know what? It has a very high chance of happening.

This happens to a friend of mine all the time. She''s black, her husband is white, and their baby is very light skinned. She just rolls her eyes when people call her the nanny. I''m sure she''s annoyed by it, but she''s able to laugh about it too.

Growing up, this is what happened with my mother (she''s African American/black) and whenever I go back home to Alabama, it''s something that people still can''t seem to grasp. Of course, I think biology kind of played a cruel joke on us. I came out white with blond hair and blue eyes. My hair got darker as I got older, but it''s one of the things that made me feel extremely weird growing up (and the reason why I dye my hair dark brown).

I think it transcended annoying for my mom, but I think a lot can be said for the circumstances. My parents moved us to the whitest suburb of Birmingham in the 80s.

And, let me just say this, but when people think they''re in like company, they will say things. I feel like from even the most well meaning of white people, black people are still not equal. Like, their children can be friends with black kids, but don''t let their daughter come home with a black man. Because there are so many negative stereotypes of black men.

But back to my mom. The underlying issue in Mountain Brook is that I think a lot of people tended to view black people as "the help," not as people worthy of living there.

 

[Imdanny]

Stereotypes ARE bad because they are like caricatures. It's dehumanizing to use them. That's why.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

What''s the difference between stereotyping and profiling (say in a criminal case like they do on TV)? Sorry if it''s a dumb question, but isn''t that basically guessing who the suspect likely is based on stereotyped behaviors associated with certain groups?

 

[luckynumber]

kenny i am devastated to learn that you''re gay.

does that mean that my young lithe decidedly female body will not be accepted in exchange for your octavia??

oh, cruel cruel world!!!

ah well, it was worth a shot.....

 

[packrat]

Date: 1/1/2010 6:58:26 AM
Author: MakingTheGrade
What''s the difference between stereotyping and profiling (say in a criminal case like they do on TV)? Sorry if it''s a dumb question, but isn''t that basically guessing who the suspect likely is based on stereotyped behaviors associated with certain groups?

I was going to ask that last night too, but got too tired went to bed!

 

[Sizzle]

I think stereotypes are bad when they are negative. It is unfair to find a few examples and then declare that to be true for an entire race or group of people. I think this is especially true when talking about a group that has been historically oppressed and mistreated. I don''t think it''s a matter of being "politically correct" as it is to be respectful of people as individuals. I''ve never heard of ANYONE being offended when their "sterotype" is something positive "they''re prettier, smarter, more talented, better performers", but it is hurtful when people use stereotypes to be hurtful and declare people "lazy, criminal minded, stupid" etc.

 

[kenny]

Date: 1/1/2010 8:57:26 AM
Author: luckynumber
kenny i am devastated to learn that you''re gay.
does that mean that my young lithe decidedly female body will not be accepted in exchange for your octavia??
oh, cruel cruel world!!!

Well, I''ll take those cute kittens in your avatar.

 

[kenny]

Date: 1/1/2010 6:58:26 AM
Author: MakingTheGrade
What's the difference between stereotyping and profiling (say in a criminal case like they do on TV)? Sorry if it's a dumb question, but isn't that basically guessing who the suspect likely is based on stereotyped behaviors associated with certain groups?

No difference really, just another word used for a particular situation.
Racial profiling is treating an entire group as if they are more likely to be criminals.
My SO is latino and feels he gets pulled over by the cops much more often caucasians.

Airport security must feel pressure to look more closely at members of the group that has statistically demonstrated they have in the past been mathematically more likely to be terrorists than the general population.

You know this is really a problem for the brain in certain situations.
Some people feel that planes are less safe because of political correctness.
Then again, doing your best to prevent a plane of 500 innocent people from being blown up is pretty PC too.

Then again the Unabomber and Timothy McVey were terrorists and didn't fit the profile.

 

[lala2332]

Have you seen the preview for Up In the Air? I haven't seen the movie, but its in the preview...where George Clooney stereotypes people on how to make sure you are in the fastest line for airport security. I think he says something like old people have tons of stuff in their bodies that will set the detector off and that asian business men travel light and like slip-off shoes.

It is stereotyping, but its so funny the way he says it AND, I know I've def. done it in similar situations. I always try to get behind a business traveler and stay away from the family with the two small children.

 

[DivaDiamond007]

I think there''s a difference between legit stereotyping and a person who stereotypes because he/she is ignorant.

Car and health insurance companies stereotype all of the time - fair or not. If you have a low credit score you will pay more for car insurance because those with low credit scores are more likely to file a claim; thus costing the insurance company more money. That isn''t to say that you will make a claim just because your credit score is low, just that you are more likely to. I would say that is a legit stereotype even if it''s not fair.

I also think that it''s one thing to speak the truth about the FACTS of a certain race or population set but another to make things up. For me, this is where being PC comes into play. If I am stating a fact about something or someone to another person and they get offended it makes me confused. A fact is a fact is a fact and just because someone is offended by a fact doesn''t change anything. Does that even make sense?

Someone mentioned before about taking the medical history of a gay man - the poster stated that sexual orientation is discussed because a gay man is more likely to have HIV/AIDS than a straight man or woman. If the gay man was offended by that I wouldn''t understand why. It''s a FACT, not the medical professional trying to pigeon-hole the patient. To me, there is a difference between treating the gay man differently than a straight person just because he''s gay and treating him differently because it''s relevant.

 

[beaujolais]

I put a red star (in pen) on the corner of my "difficult to deal with" patient''s charts.

 

[AmberGretchen]

Date: 12/31/2009 6:06:26 PM
Author: Mrs Mitchell

They can lead to assumptions, too. Women with red hair, for example. My ex boss once told me that the gene causing red hair is useless in evolutionary terms but survives mainly because redheads like to have lots of sex. Perhaps I, as a redhead, would like to have sex with him?


Not so much.

OMG MrsM - I just read this and thought

WHO SAYS THAT?!!

I would agree with a lot of what has been said so far on this thread - that stereotypes are often based on kernels of truth, and that a lot of what is considered "acceptable" in terms of stereotypes vs. not has evolved over time and will continue to evolve. I think it is shameful and tragic when stereotypes lead to hurtful or offensive outcomes, and I think it will always be a really tough balance between having to have unreasonable caution about every single thing you say vs. honestly trying not to offend people or hurt their feelings.