What''s your opinion on this.

[Gypsy]

I read this and walked away feeling I live in a bubble because I cannot imagine ANYONE taking a hand (or a paddle

) to my kids at school. I didn't even know this was still legal.

Are you guys okay with this? (not in the house, by parents. But specifically in schools).

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20080820/NEWS-USA-SCHOOLS-PUNISHMENT-DC/

 

[aprilcait]

Not at all.
I wasn't spanked and don't plan on spanking my own future children. I do not believe that I have the right to tell others not to spank their own kids; however, I don't believe that someone else should be spanking my kids if I do not believe in spanking.
I certainly don't think that teachers/administrators should be spanking students. That seems like the parents'/guardians' territory.

 

[Shoopy]

Keeping aside how I feel about spanking as a punishment, I’m not for it in school.

Who decides what kids get punished for? What if in one school a principal gets upset with gum chewing (as stated in the article) but in another the principal doesn’t care as much? Who is going to be checking for consistency?

Also, they would need to have some sort of monitoring in place to ensure that the teachers don’t abuse the privilege and again that they are consistent. If a teacher spanks one child for talking out of turn, then all children talking out of turn should be spanked as well. Being that we are all human and we are all victims/guilty of favoritism, what’s to say that one child won’t be spanked more than another? Who would be monitoring that?

I don’t think that “beating kids will be teaching violence” as long as it is practiced and given fairly and children are told why this is being done. Being that there is no way to monitor/control for that, then it shouldn’t be done.

 

[WishfulThinking]

For some reason I thought this wasn't legal anymore. Maybe I projected my VERY STRONG belief that it shouldn't be legal over the reality of the situation?

Keeping my own views about spanking aside [I wouldn't do it personally], if someone other than me lay a hand on my kid I would be LIVID. Even kids whose parents use spanking as a disciplinary measure at home have the right to decide if and when someone will physically inflict pain on their child. That is not the school's job. It also might really interfere with the way parents are raising their children. If I didn't spank my kids but their teacher did, what sort of message does that send to my kid? That they can get away with stuff at home because my punishments aren't as bad as their teacher's? If I did spank my kids, but only in extreme circumstances*, and the teacher hit him or her for chewing gum, that sends a message of arbitrary punishment. It's also really worrisome to me that the article talks about certain demographics of kids being hit more often. For repeat offenders, the so-called "bad kids," how do we get the message across that their actions are wrong if we just hit them and hit them until they're desensitized to it? It seems as if the teachers are breaking out what many would consider to be the harshest punishment rather early on in the game, which gives them no leverage to punish them in alternate ways.


*The only two times I was spanked in my life were by my parents when I'd done something that put myself or another person in extreme physical danger.

 

[VegasAngel]

I thought they had to call & get the parents approval before spanking? I remember that is how it was in my early elementary school days.

Maybe everywhere is/was different.

Edited: I didnt answer the question. There is no way I would let someone spank my kid for chewing gum that is for sure. Allowing someone else to spank my kid... she'd have to do something really terrible in order for me to let her be spanked at school.

Wow unless I'm reading wrong nevada didnt ban Corporal Punishment in schools until 1993

 

[jewelerman]

My parents made it clear to school authority that if we did something wrong in school we would be punished at home...this alone kept me on the straight and narrow...really!This was in the 1970s and schools still paddled kids.

 

[Mrs Mitchell]

Totally illegal in the UK, I''m gad to say. I''m a fairly placid person but I would do jail time for anyone who assaulted my child!

 

[purrfectpear]

I thought it was illegal now, but it''s a shame that there isn''t more of it IMO.

It''s fine to say "I''ll discipline my kids at home" and "Don''t you dare touch my child" but the fact is that the kids in the schools are somewhat out of control. Look at it this way, if your kid is as well behaved as you believe they are, spanking in school would never be an issue, as they wouldn''t be up for punishment. In the mean time, the brats who NEED a good spank would get one, and class could go on undisrupted.

I was in grade school in the 60''s. At the beginning of every school year there was always some little kid who thought the rules didn''t apply to them, or they just wanted to see how far they could go. They''d get caught, get paddled, and the rest of us would sit there with our mouths open and our eyes wide. After that NO ONE seriously misbehaved. It''s not like teachers went around swatting kids left and right all year. We just had to believe that we''d be punished if we messed up.

Now teachers can''t touch kids (at least in LA), the kids act out uncontrollably, classrooms are chaos, poor teachers can barely teach...all because some kids KNOW that nothing can be done to them.

 

[LaraOnline]

Personally I think teachers are less likely to abuse children than parents are, and are less likely to emotionally 'punish' in an ill disciplined way.
Particularly if the task of the cane is handed over to another teacher, such as deputy head of the school.
Children can be hard task masters for the lay child care students (parents).

I note that afro children are more likely to be corporally punished than white children. I think this might be a result of afro children having fewer school/education choices than white children, because of the economic imperative.
Possibly also from not fitting into the school environment (obviously). Lifestyle is part of this.
Is there a culture of some students steadfastly refusing to enjoy school? Those reprobates! Anti-education / anti 'white guy' education attitudes are partly passed on by nearby adults, I guess. Shame.

 

[violet02]

Date: 8/21/2008 8:46:28 AM
Author: purrfectpear
I thought it was illegal now, but it's a shame that there isn't more of it IMO.

It's fine to say 'I'll discipline my kids at home' and 'Don't you dare touch my child' but the fact is that the kids in the schools are somewhat out of control. Look at it this way, if your kid is as well behaved as you believe they are, spanking in school would never be an issue, as they wouldn't be up for punishment. In the mean time, the brats who NEED a good spank would get one, and class could go on undisrupted.

I was in grade school in the 60's. At the beginning of every school year there was always some little kid who thought the rules didn't apply to them, or they just wanted to see how far they could go. They'd get caught, get paddled, and the rest of us would sit there with our mouths open and our eyes wide. After that NO ONE seriously misbehaved. It's not like teachers went around swatting kids left and right all year. We just had to believe that we'd be punished if we messed up.

Now teachers can't touch kids (at least in LA), the kids act out uncontrollably, classrooms are chaos, poor teachers can barely teach...all because some kids KNOW that nothing can be done to them.

I grew up in the 70s... I remember my music teacher in 2nd or 3rd grade had this paddle that was layers of wood glued together, it had holes in it too, to catch air and sting more, something like that... Anyways we were all deathly afraid of that thing. I recall one day a boy getting in trouble and being taken into his office in the back and getting spanked, we were all terrified (and traumatized!). I never ever mis-behaved in that class! Even though spanking in school was okay when I was a kid I never got spanked and neither did any of my friends. I was spanked as a kid. I don't think I'm the worse off for it per se. I definitely was afraid of mis-behaving around my mom, she was very strict. When it was just me and my dad later on he was a pushover and I got really out of hand for awhile.

As an adult I was a nanny all through college and I never laid a hand on any of the kids I took care of. I found that I could easily get the message across to them that they were mis-behaving without yelling and being physical. I will never spank my own kids. I honestly don't think hitting is they way to get the message across and I think I would be really angry if a teacher did it. Heck I was angry when the doggie daycare tried to discipline my dog physically!

I do get that there are some kids that are just out of control and aren't afraid of being disciplined. That's a tough situation. I mean it was really effective having that paddle hanging on the wall when I was a kid... you rarely saw a kid mis-behave. I get flak for saying this but I never saw anything wrong in kids having a certain level of 'fear'. I mean that in the sense that when I was a kid I was afraid of screwing up and being caught by my mom.. I was afraid of the punishment. Nowadays I hear stories from people at work about their kids walking all over them... one person said he will tell his kids they are going to get a spanking but they know he'll never do it so they continue to mis-behave and he has no recourse. All my mom had to do was make me sit in the corner quietly for a couple of hours and I would be back on the straight and narrow.

Seriously though I'm suprised those teachers didn't get charged with assault with the way things are today. I also don't think spanking should be illegal though. They tried to pass a law like that recently in CA but it didn't go over well. Imagine how kids would be if they could have you arrested for a smack on the bottom? Have you ever been in a grocery store and seen someone spank their child? At least one spank? I have and people really freak out about it. It's considered shocking nowadays to see something like that.

ETA: Yeesh sorry for the long rambling post!

 

[AGBF]

Gypsy,

In the US the legality of corporal punishment by schools is decided locally. In many other countries (as mentioned by another poster) spanking children is illegal for anyone. Sweden and Israel are among the other countries where spanking is completely outlawed.

Deborah

 

[Maisie]

Yes its definitely illegal in the UK as Mrs Mitchell says. I hate the idea of my children being hit by anyone. We have never spanked them and they aren''t allowed to hit each other. It would definitely come as a shock if a teacher, or anyone else for that matter, hit my kids.

 

[Pandora II]

It is now - I was in the last generation of kids to be beaten at school.

I went to a private 'prep-school' (4 - 13 age group). We had a system where if you got 3 'stars' in a subject you got a thing called a 'good copy' which you took to the headmaster after lunch and you got a sweet from a jar. 4 or more 'good copies' in a week and you got to go to a teaparty with jelly and icecream!

If you did three bad pieces of work in a subject you got a 'bad copy', more than 3 in a week and you got shouted at and beaten with a gymshoe by the headmaster.

Frankly I think it was a waste of time - it was always the same 6 of us in the bad queue. Belting 7 year olds doesn't make them work harder. Most of us were just deeply unhappy at school and there was a lot of bullying going on - hardly conducive to getting good marks.

I never told my parents - I reckoned I'd just be in more trouble.

Despite all my 'bad copies', I went on to get straight A's at my secondary school.


My parents spanked all of us - to be honest I preferred it to when they decided spanking was bad and used alternative punsihments like grounding or no TV.

 

[Northern Lights]

Date: 8/21/2008 8:51:07 AM
Author: LaraOnline
Personally I think teachers are less likely to abuse children than parents are, and are less likely to emotionally ''punish'' in an ill disciplined way.
Particularly if the task of the cane is handed over to another teacher, such as deputy head of the school.
Children can be hard task masters for the lay child care students (parents).

I note that afro children are more likely to be corporally punished than white children. I think this might be a result of afro children having fewer school/education choices than white children, because of the economic imperative.
Possibly also from not fitting into the school environment (obviously). Lifestyle is part of this.
Is there a culture of some students steadfastly refusing to enjoy school? Those reprobates! Anti-education / anti ''white guy'' education attitudes are partly passed on by nearby adults, I guess. Shame.

I have never heard the word “Afro” used to describe a person of the African race unless it was meant to be derogatory. Seriously, what would possess someone to post such a racially insensitive word!? And, please don’t say you weren’t aware, because that would be complete hogwash!!

 

[LaraOnline]

Sorry, I don't come from the US,
and personally, I don't care to be defined by the words I use, unless I'm using them in a way that is deliberately inflammatory to you personally
There was no malignancy in my post
I am related to Aboriginal people (Australian black people), my SIL, niece and nephew, if that is qualification enough to be a member of the human world, and I am close friends with African people - my sister is considering marrying a Senegalese man.
I just knew someone would appoint themselves the moral police on the use of ... basically any word, actually.
What do you suggest is the current 'word du jour' hmmm? Please enlighten/ inspire me.
I thank you for your position of insight.
L.
ETA: Is 'Afro-American' style still current according to the word police dictionary? Because let me tell you about MY culture. We shorten EVERYTHING

 

[LaraOnline]

Let me guess... you are talking about a certain type of fashion hairstyle?
Puh-leese!

 

[Northern Lights]

Date: 8/21/2008 11:45:25 AM
Author: LaraOnline
Sorry, I don''t come from the US,
and personally, I don''t care to be defined by the words I use, unless I''m using them in a way that is deliberately inflammatory to you personally
There was no malignancy in my post
I am related to Aboriginal people (Australian black people), my SIL, niece and nephew, if that is qualification enough to be a member of the human world, and I am close friends with African people - my sister is considering marrying a Senegalese man.
I just knew someone would appoint themselves the moral police on the use of ... basically any word, actually.
What do you suggest is the current ''word du jour'' hmmm? Please enlighten/ inspire me.
I thank you for your position of insight.
L.
ETA: Is ''Afro-American'' style still current according to the word police dictionary? Because let me tell you about MY culture. We shorten EVERYTHING

Well, it is pointless in trying to explain something to someone who clearly is not living in the present.

 

[musey]

No, it's absolutely inappropriate. Especially considering that so many people are strongly against using physical punishment tactics.

I was spanked heavily growing up, and often senselessly. It held no meaning for me, it just made me afraid of my father. I have no intention of using that as a punishment for my children, and if my child's school chose to undermine my parenting style--my child would be immediately removed from their program.

I don't see that happening, though, as I fully intend to do all necessary research on my school's rules/regulations before enrolling my child.

 

[musey]

Northern Lights, it seems we are dealing with a cultural/regional difference here, not an issue of 'past' or 'present.' For example, just as using the word "native" when referring to indigenous peoples of the North American continent is considered acceptable, it is viewed as highly derogatory in many other world regions (Africa and some South American countries being among them).

Lara indicated that she didn't mean any offense by her choice in words.

 

[iwannaprettyone]

I got a ruler over the knuckles a few times in school. I deserved it. Maybe that is why the youth today is out of control because there are NO consequences.

 

[LaraOnline]

Date: 8/21/2008 11:52:59 AM
Author: Northern Lights

Date: 8/21/2008 11:45:25 AM

Author: LaraOnline

Sorry, I don''t come from the US,

and personally, I don''t care to be defined by the words I use, unless I''m using them in a way that is deliberately inflammatory to you personally

There was no malignancy in my post

I am related to Aboriginal people (Australian black people), my SIL, niece and nephew, if that is qualification enough to be a member of the human world, and I am close friends with African people - my sister is considering marrying a Senegalese man.

I just knew someone would appoint themselves the moral police on the use of ... basically any word, actually.

What do you suggest is the current ''word du jour'' hmmm? Please enlighten/ inspire me.

I thank you for your position of insight.

L.

ETA: Is ''Afro-American'' style still current according to the word police dictionary? Because let me tell you about MY culture. We shorten EVERYTHING

Well, it is pointless in trying to explain something to someone who clearly is not living in the present.

Hello? I am living here, in the world *note* probably not in your own particular country , and Yes I am a decent person and Yes I really truly do have a decent heart in a decent body.
I dont want to continue or respond in some kind of ''flame war'', but I will say that keeping up with current ''in'' and ''out'' words to describe (or self-describe) particular groups of people is not a fair test of reasonable-ness. To me, there are no *passwords* any more. That, in itself, seems old hat to me.
But I am here, and I am friends with African people, and African Australian people - not African American people - who have made their lives here, not over there (US). So I guess I will never be really ''in the loop'' and I will have to agree to just be friends. Ok? As a matter of fact, please don''t feel obliged to answer. It''s all okay.

 

[Northern Lights]

My Scandinavian husband whose second language is English, read the post and found the word offensive.

I just find it hard to believe that in this day in age someone would have the gull to say they didn''t know. You can list all the excuses all you want, and some people may believe them, but I''m not buying it.

 

[musey]

Date: 8/21/2008 12:10:17 PM
Author: iwannaprettyone
I got a ruler over the knuckles a few times in school. I deserved it. Maybe that is why the youth today is out of control because there are NO consequences.

Not to start a debate, but--lack of physical punishment does not equate lack of punishment period. The vast majority of kids require punishment and consequences to learn, but that doesn't necessarily have to mean hitting them.

All children are different, but I was one kid who did not respond at all to physical punishment. My parents' "disappointment" taught me a lot more than a spanking session ever did.

Not to say that today's youth isn't less "in control" than yesterday's, because it does seem that way, but I don't think it has to do with a lack of spanking/hitting/paddling/etc. specifically.

 

[Ali]

Please keep the positive, educational spirit of Pricescope in mind when posting. Do not flame, judge or otherwise make personal attacks.
Stay on topic or the thread will be removed.

 

[absolut_blonde]

Date: 8/21/2008 12:25:43 PM
Author: musey

Date: 8/21/2008 12:10:17 PM
Author: iwannaprettyone
I got a ruler over the knuckles a few times in school. I deserved it. Maybe that is why the youth today is out of control because there are NO consequences.

Not to start a debate, but--lack of physical punishment does not equate lack of punishment period. The vast majority of kids require punishment and consequences to learn, but that doesn't necessarily have to mean hitting them.

All children are different, but I was one kid who did not respond at all to physical punishment. My parents' 'disappointment' taught me a lot more than a spanking session ever did.

Not to say that today's youth isn't less 'in control' than yesterday's, because it does seem that way, but I don't think it has to do with a lack of spanking/hitting/paddling/etc. specifically.

I agree.


As for the OP, I would be absolutely LIVID if a teacher were to use physical punishment against my (theoretical) child. I feel very strongly that (barring self-defense) such a thing should never be done. As a parent, it is your decision whether or not to use physical punishment when raising your children. If a teacher spanks your child at school, they have taken away your right to decide that by subjecting your child to spanking whether you as the parent agree with it or not. While this may also happen in other respects- such as disagreeing with time-outs or whatever- I think taking physical action crosses a very real line that makes this particular topic different.

There are a number of acceptable forms of punishment available to the teachers. In my opinion, hitting is NOT one of them.

 

[Anna0499]

I wouldn't support corporal punishment by educators, either. I think more personal responsibility needs to be placed upon parents of unruly children, not their teachers. Teachers get blamed for enough of childrens' problems without forcing them to be judge & jury of every child with whom they come in contact.

My parents spanked my siblings & I until we were old enough to know the difference between right & wrong; they stopped then because we had the cognitive ability to understand why our behavior was incorrect & could adjust it accordingly after being punished in other ways. None of my siblings (4) or I have ever been in any kind of trouble, nor are we aggressive people. I definitely don't agree with "beating" a child, but a smack on the bottom every now & then when severe misbehavior (i.e. the kind that puts the child or other in danger) takes place is harmless IMHO.

Anyways, to bring it back to real topic of the corporal punishment in school, my vote is no. I feel like this law is one of those that hasn't been passed because it is a non-issue in most schools; if more schools tried to employ corporal punishment I'm sure it would've been passed by now. I haven't heard of any school in which corporal punishment is the policy currently applied.

ETA: Until such a ban is passed, I would hope parents of children in those schools would use the democratic process to change what they see as unfit & unproductive to their childrens' education.

 

[MonkeyPie]

Personally, I can think of a couple of my classmates that REALLY needed a swat on the bottom, or maybe a couple swats. I was spanked as a child and I had the fear of God in me from my mom. And I wasn''t a bad kid at all. Depending on the child and how they are raised, I see nothing wrong with it. But once they get older, nowadays anyway, they can scream child abuse. And so can anyone that sees you.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 8/21/2008 12:24:57 PM
Author: Northern Lights
My Scandinavian husband whose second language is English, read the post and found the word offensive.

I just find it hard to believe that in this day in age someone would have the gull to say they didn't know. You can list all the excuses all you want, and some people may believe them, but I'm not buying it.

Wow NL...you are being very quick to judge here after Lara explained herself. That seems more intolerant to me than the intolerance you are accusing someone of.

Having an Australian husband, I can indeed vouch for the fact that Aussies shorten everything. Mosquitos are Mozzies, etc. Not only that, but shortening a word and adding an "o" is a very common way to do the shortening. I've heard Aboriginals called "Abbos" (not sure if it's derrogatory, but I've heard it a lot) so logically shortening African to Afro wouldn't be too far out of line.

Australians also do not have the exposure to african americans the way we do (because, no duh...they are AUSTRALIAN). Aboriginals as well as people from different countries in Africa, yes, but they are labeled by their country of identity.

And to add more evidence to that fact, I will tell you a mortifying (in my opinion) story about TGuy. From my posts, you all probably know I love my husband and he is a lovely, caring, person. He also hates racism/bigotry.

When he first visited the U.S. I brought him to a dinner with a client and the client's daughter (I have known them a long time so they are also friends of mine). We were talking about multiculturalism in the US and in wanting to describe African Americans, TGuy used the word NEGROES.

I nearly fell off the chair in shock. No one said anything to the word. Later I told him, you can't say words like that!! He was like, huh? What? What did I do? I explained and it took me all the willpower NOT to ask him what century he was from...dude, seriously! He was horrified at his mistake but told me he thought it was an OK word to use and that they did not have all the exposure to American history and all associated with it...and did I know much about the history of Aboriginals and what it was OK and not OK to say regarding them? Of course, my answer was no, I didn't know much about Australian history and what was a faux pas regarding race relations there.

I think we sometimes expect the rest of the world to know and completely understand/comply with what is accepted in our society. But it's OUR society and sometimes I think we think the world ends at our waters.

 

[musey]

Date: 8/21/2008 1:14:02 PM
Author: MonkeyPie
Personally, I can think of a couple of my classmates that REALLY needed a swat on the bottom, or maybe a couple swats. I was spanked as a child and I had the fear of God in me from my mom. And I wasn't a bad kid at all. Depending on the child and how they are raised, I see nothing wrong with it. But once they get older, nowadays anyway, they can scream child abuse. And so can anyone that sees you.

Yeah, that's actually the problem I have with it. If it depends on the child, then it shouldn't be allowed in schools. Things like that should apply across the board or not be used.

In this case, this style of punishment is something that should be up to parents, not teachers. Teachers should not be allowed to supersede a parent's decision regarding controversial disciplining methods.

...in my opinion.

 

[TravelingGal]

Now, I apologize for the threadjack, but I wanted to point out that Lara wasn''t making stuff up to "defend" herself.

And to answer the original question...I do believe in spanking when necessary, but I believe as a parent, I should decide who does it so I wouldn''t be thrilled with a schoolteacher who touched my child in that way. Spanking can be done with love, and I think when a teacher does it, it''s strictly out of discipline with no love.