What would you do?

[glaucomflecken]

Date: 9/24/2005 1:59:38 PM
Author: aljdewey
I think it''s wrong to exclude a long-term girlfriend just because they feel she isn''t ''social'' enough. It''s penalizing her for her *personality*.

Hi Deanna-

I couldnt agree with this statement more. I cant believe that this is even an issue! While we were planning our guest list for our wedding next month, we also had a limited amount of invitations. Each friend and family member who was invited was invited for just that reason...because they are our friends and family members! Even my snobby cousins I dont like or my uncle who can be a jerk sometimes. They have personality traits I dont like, but they are family. The thought of not inviting someone based on their personality of being "shy" just to save money boggles my mind. Why not start excluding people who are big eaters or drinkers? They might increase the catering bill!

Like it or not, your husband needs to realize that your son''s girlfriend is family now. For someone to be in a relationship for two years with someone and be happy such as your son seems to be with her speaks volumes. Obviously she must be caring and loving for him to be with her! And she LOVES your son! She doesnt sound manipulative, mean, abusive, etc, etc, which would really be grounds for not liking her! Im not a parent, but my mom has told me that she has a special bond with my fiance not only because she likes him, but because he loves, cares for, and respects ME, her child.

Perhaps too this girl senses these feelings from your husband, etc, and the more she feels unaccepted the more she clams up! I think there has got to be other issues your husband must have with her or your son because i just cant comprehend how this is an issue.

your husband will be so busy that day anyway he wont even be paying attention to the personality traits of anyone invited.

Just a quick story- When I was in college, I always had the sense that my boyfriend at the time''s family didn''t like me. I dont know why, but when I was with them, I always tried to mind my p''s and q''s and be on my best behavior because I didnt want them to "unlike" me even more. I''m very outgoing but when I am around people who make me uncomfortable for whatever reason, I clam up and I can see how my personality changed. The more they "ignored" me the more I "ignored" them. One mother''s day, which happened to be his mom''s birthday, i was over for dinner and while I was using the restroom, they started singing "happy birthday" and serving cake. They didnt even wait for me 2 seconds to come back to the table. It was a dumb little incident, but I will never forget how hurt I was. It showed me that even after dating Joe for a year I was NOT considered part of the family and not welcome to participate in family events. Needless to say, the relationship fizzled. I would hate to see outside forces drive that wedge between your son, your girlfriend, and your family.

i hope i didnt sound too harsh! good luck!

 

[AsscherGirl]

I just wanted to add a different perspective to this issue.

I do believe the girlfriend should be invited without question. I am glad you brought the topic to your son, because I am sure that he will be able to talk to his girlfriend and let her see your husband''s/son''s side of the story.

However, in my family, no matter how long you had been dating, unless you were married or engaged, significant others did not get invited to weddings by name. I remember specifically for my uncle''s wedding ten years ago, two of his friends had been dating since high school (they were 30 at the time & had been dating 14 years). They each got a separate invitation. If one of them had been related to us, the invitation would have been sent to the relative plus one guest. I was 12 at the time & very idealistic; I thought this was ridiculous. But now I realize that it really was quite logical. People break up all the time. You can''t be 100% sure that couples will still be together and when push comes to shove, wouldn''t you prefer your relative to be there than their ex-significant other? Or if they were both friends, wouldn''t you rather them both be there instead of just one of them?

I am actually going to my boyfriend''s cousins wedding today. I was really surprised when we received the invitation and it was addressed to me & my boyfriend. I personally would have no problem being the "+1" eventhough I spend almost all holidays with his family, was invited to the bridal shower and have been with him for almost 7 years. I of course attribute this to the way my family has always treated invites, but hey it certainly avoids situations like this

.

Good luck. I hope everything works out and that if your second son ever decides to spend the rest of his life with this girl that your family will be able to love and accept her like all of the other significant othersr!

 

[gingerBcookie]

Date: 9/25/2005 9:05:33 AM
Author: hearts set
The personality of this girl would offend and irk me, as well.

Shy people can be very courteous and make the effort to be gracious. I can think of one painfully shy husband of one of my dearest and best friends. He TRIES! He turns red, but he makes eye contact, he asks how I am doing, what is going on in my life. Over the years it''s gotten easier for him...but I always appreciated his effort.

It''s rude not to acknowledge someone''s presence in their own home. Plain rude. There is no excuse other than this girl has no decent breeding.

Still, I say, the decision has to be up to your son (the boyfriend of rudegirl) whether to bring her or not.

Put on his invite....To son and guest

For sure, she will wonder why she wasn''t invited by name and will question your son about it.

THat will be your oportunity to politely say ''well, son, we weren''t sure that she would be interested in our special event since she makes it clear that she has nothing to say to us...we can''t imagine why she would want to spend an entire evening with us....we thought this way would give her an easy out if you wanted to bring someone else to spare her and evening of torture with our family''

PUT IT DIRECTLY IN HER LAP....NEVER EVER say. that you find her rude, that you don''t like her, that you don''t welcome her...this way your son won''t be offended by your judgement of her (which she deserves, but love is blind remember) He can only be offended by her treatment of his loving family...that won''t fly for long.

Maybe her parents never insisted that she had to be gracious. And now she is an adult, she comes off like someone who was raised in a barn.

It''s ashame, but I think it''s common. Young women especially are taught to adorn themselves physically, but not to carve out for themselves a charming personality...She could easily win your husbands heart, but it''s likely she doesn''t know how and she doesn''t know that she''s supposed to even care.

Maybe your loving influence can do some good. You never know...there may be a very good reason your paths have crossed.

I find some of these statements disturbing, and somewhat, well, rude. I was brought up to not speak unless spoken to by your elder. THAT IS CONSIDERED GOOD MANNERS IN MY FAMILY. It took me a very very very long time to initiate conversation with anyone I considered my "superior/elder", and it is still very very VERY difficult for me to do so (my heart starts beating wildly just at the thought of it), partly because of my upbringing, partly because of my inherent shyness. Just because someone does not follow your particular idea of etiquette does not mean they were "raised in a barn". In my culture, slurping your food is a way to show your appreciation to the cook about how delicious the food is. That is not the etiquette here, but to say someone is rude who does that without knowing the context of their actions is presumptous and close-minded.

I am trying not to explode, but this issue is hits very close to home. When I was at that point, I was desperate to break through, I just couldn''t figure out how! If my BF''s dad had come up to me and told me he thought I was rude, it would have devastated me, and made me hesitate even more. If I had heard the above excuse, I would have seen right through it and known what it really meant.

DB - talking to your son was a great move! it is prob easiest to have that told to her for the first time by someone she is comfortable speaking with. it helped quite a bit when i was in a room full of people i didn''t know, when someone came up to me and started a on-on-one, where i did not have to address the room in general. maybe pull her aside and ask her to help you in the kitchen? give her a chance to try now that she is aware of how her actions are being interpreted. you really are sooooooo great to be doing this for your sons, you sound like a great future mother-in-law!!! I want to thank you for doing this, because i would have appreciated it sooooooooooo much if someone had gone through all this for me.

 

[aljdewey]

With all due respect.......I honestly don''t believe it''s in good taste or at all compassionate to use a family event as a corrective instrument.

There are plenty of other times......less sensitive times.....that folks can work on communication/social issues.

I believe it would be in extremely poor taste to make the girlfriend feel unwelcome in any way.......and doing so, to me, would demonstrate a lack of social skills at least equal to, if not worse than, the girlfriend''s shyness. Hers is not a deliberate slight......but discluding her would be.

Just my opinion.

 

[Mara]

"THat will be your oportunity to politely say 'well, son, we weren't sure that she would be interested in our special event since she makes it clear that she has nothing to say to us...we can't imagine why she would want to spend an entire evening with us....we thought this way would give her an easy out if you wanted to bring someone else to spare her and evening of torture with our family'

PUT IT DIRECTLY IN HER LAP....NEVER EVER say. that you find her rude, that you don't like her, that you don't welcome her...this way your son won't be offended by your judgement of her (which she deserves, but love is blind remember) He can only be offended by her treatment of his loving family...that won't fly for long."

_______________________

YIKES...If a member of my family ever pulled that passive aggressive nonsense with me rather than just coming out and speaking to me like DB just did with her son last nite...I'd be so pissed! I value honesty and forthrightness and something like this, throwing the ball back and forth, to me is not the way to go. 'An evening of torture'? That's like TRYING to pick a fight.

I have to say I disagree because sometimes shy people don't have a CLUE how they are coming off and sometimes if they DO, they feel powerless to fix it at the moment. It doesn't mean they were raised in a barn or that they have no breeding. Sometimes they need assistance from the other side as well. And sometimes there's alot of patience involved. As others have already pointed out, if the kids love her and DB's son adores her and is happy with her for 2 years...there must be more going on underneath the surface.

I can be very outgoing with the right crowd most of the time, but sometimes if I feel uncomfortable or like the other person does not like me then I clam up and just begin to 'observe' what is going on around me rather than participate. But I'd much rather get a reality check from a friend or hubby or have someone take the extra time to try to draw me out. 99% of my friends would LAUGH if I described myself as shy but sometimes I feel like it. I think it depends on the situation and the person. Not everyone is 1000% comfortable to be social and outgoing all the time.

There are better ways to phrase things IMO than the wording above and also better ways to think about the situation...esp when you are thinking about someone who could be in your life for a very long time. I am a huge fan of familial support and welcoming people in and I think that so many families have a different attitude, more like they have to WORK to get in with us...but in reality it should be that once someone is in the family by marriage or about to be etc...they should be treated like family and given those same loving considerations rather than trying to make them into who YOU (as a parent or sibling) wish that your family member would have ended up with. Appreciate them for themselves.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 9/25/2005 9:05:33 AM
Author: hearts set

Put on his invite....To son and guest

For sure, she will wonder why she wasn''t invited by name and will question your son about it.

THat will be your oportunity to politely say ''well, son, we weren''t sure that she would be interested in our special event since she makes it clear that she has nothing to say to us...we can''t imagine why she would want to spend an entire evening with us....we thought this way would give her an easy out if you wanted to bring someone else to spare her and evening of torture with our family''

Oh......and if my family ever did this to me or said this to me, it would be the ABSOLUTE last time I''d speak to my family. And I''m not kidding.

I don''t mean to offend, but to me, this solution is in the poorest of taste.

 

[allycat0303]

I''m with Ginger on this. I''ve been through a very similar situation and IF my boyfriend''s family had ever come at me in this manner, he would have chosen me over his family. Being shy can be very difficult, and I can''t believe that anyone would even THINK of treating this girl as a social outcast.

It makes me so sad that people wouild think about doing this. A little patience, understanding, and compassion would go a long way. My boyfriend''s family was ALWAYS welcoming, even if I didn''t say two words during a two hour dinner. For me the language was a barrier, and I felt awkward. To me that is breeding. And even more, it''s common decency.

And even more, I totally despise, little underhanded slights. Tell your husband and son, if they don''t like the girlfriend, tell the girl to her face. It''s cowardly to run around trying to find ways to needle and belittle someone without the nerve to confront them openly.

This topic is making me FLAMMING MAD.

 

[DonaBella]

I very much appreciate everyone''s contribution to my problem, however, I do not want to have ANYONE angry or left frustrated over me and my family. Please do not feel pressured to continue this thread. My intent was not to cause ANYONE grief. I cannot thank each and everyone of you more than I am right now. This is my problem and you all have been very generous...SIncerely appreciatitive...DeannaBana

 

[DonaBella]

I have made a decision to not only print this entire thread to show my family, but also to present it to the therapist that my hubby and I are seeing for her evaluation. I am not content or comfortable with the direction that this is going in my family and its time for a professional to advise us...again, thank you for your candid and sincere efforts to advise me...

 

[AmberGretchen]

Deanne - best of luck with this - I think talking to a therapist is a very good idea at this juncture, because it seems that your attempts to communicate with your husband have not been as successful as they might, for whatever reason.

I wouldn''t worry - I think people are just trying to give you their honest opinions and its good to have views from different perspectives, even if that raises some hackles.

Again, I (and I''m sure everyone here) wish you the best of luck with resolving this issue, and would love to hear about the resolution if and when you feel comfortable sharing it.

 

[hearts set]

Wow!

I had no idea I''d cause such a mess!!

I still stand my ground.

The poster said that this woman will not acknowledge her in her own home. That''s not shy. That''s rude. I will never ever think of it any other way.

I spoke of my friends husband. He was diagnosed with social anxiety. At one point, I knew that it killed him to talk to me (or anyone else) I NEVER FOUND HIM RUDE...NEVER. Sometimes, all he could say was "hi"

I come from a family that greets each other and leaves each other with a hug and a kiss....every time, to simply not acknowledge someone would just never fly. My parents would be embarrased of me if I didn''t at least try to be gracious.

Maybe I did not make myself clear that it is not her shyness that is offensive. It''s her rudeness that is appaling.

I think that DB walks a fine line with her son. He shouldn''t feel that he must choose.

I think that DB''s husband is fed up with a woman that he finds not shy, but rude.

Anyway, DB. Good Luck with this issue. I think the other women might have a better, more compassionate approach than mine.

 

[Jelly]

Deanne,

I''ve found this thread very interesting.

First of all, I have to give you credit for thinking of everyone''s feelings concerning this matter. Your family is lucky to have such a compassionate person as their matriarch.

I come from a socially "quiet" family. I don''t know if it''s part of our culture being Japanese-Americans, but nonetheless we aren''t the "dancing on tabletops/shouting across the dinner table" type of family. I''ve always been told I was too quiet, too shy, blah blah blah by other people. Even accused of being boring, afraid and opinionless! (NOT TRUE!)

Looking at the relationships in my life, I''ve always hung around with similar types. Most of my friends are the quiet type and my fiance is extremely quiet in social situations.

Quiet people are good listeners, deep thinkers, intelligent, sensitive and extremely empathetic. Unfortunately many people do not get to know us because they don''t take the time to dig a little further. I''m sure once given the chance, your son''s gf will come around. Probably the worst thing you could do is make a big deal about her social shyness. The more pressure on her, the more she''ll close up! Try to include her in simple activities that don''t involve her talking. Invite her to join in a game of cards or sitting down and doing a puzzle with you. Maybe she wishes to get to know you better but just doesn''t know how to initiate it. Just act normal around her...If you are comfortable and happy the feeling will spread!

Good luck,
Stephanie

 

[MINE!!]

WOW... she definitely should be invited. I mean, this is the younger brother and his girlfriend is just ... shy. Blood is thicker than water.. I would not take the chance of causing hard feeling just because someone is socaily awkward, tha is unfair to her (and will probably increase her shyness, and infair to your son, who obviously has feeling for her after 2 years together.

 

[icekid]

any news, Deanna? Let us know what happens!

 

[aphisiglovessae]

Wow, how did I miss this thread?

Time for my little two cents....

For starters, I have never been very shy so I don''t know how that girl feels towards your family. I do know that shyness is a trait that is often with someone the majority of their life. Maybe that''s just the way she is. I don''t feel that she should be punished for her quietness. My mother always told me, when I was little, to be seen and not heard, but of course I never listened. Maybe she was taught the same. Another reason may be that she doesn''t feel quite like she fits in. I''ve had that problem before and it makes me shut my mouth quick for a long time.

All in all, she should definitely be included in the festivities. Why? Because she''s your son''s girlfriend and if things go right, maybe she''ll end up in your family as well. 2 years is a fairly long time to date someone and I know that anyone I''ve ever dated that long already considered me as part of the family (as well as the rest of the family) even though I''m not.

Shyness is just a personality thing that people don''t really understand. It doesn''t really hurt anybody, but I can see how it would make your hubby and engaged son uncomfortable. I normally feel that shy people don''t like me for some odd reason and that''s why they don''t speak. Not including her would just make any feelings she has towards your family go bad or worse. It''s nothing but trouble.

And there''s my two cents.. I''m sure it''s the same thing everyone else has been saying, but I like to get on the soap-box every now and then.

Thank you and good night!

 

[DonaBella]

Date: 9/26/2005 12:31:43 AM
Author: hearts set
Wow!

I had no idea I''d cause such a mess!!

I still stand my ground.

The poster said that this woman will not acknowledge her in her own home. That''s not shy. That''s rude. I will never ever think of it any other way.

I spoke of my friends husband. He was diagnosed with social anxiety. At one point, I knew that it killed him to talk to me (or anyone else) I NEVER FOUND HIM RUDE...NEVER. Sometimes, all he could say was ''hi''

I come from a family that greets each other and leaves each other with a hug and a kiss....every time, to simply not acknowledge someone would just never fly. My parents would be embarrased of me if I didn''t at least try to be gracious.

Maybe I did not make myself clear that it is not her shyness that is offensive. It''s her rudeness that is appaling.

I think that DB walks a fine line with her son. He shouldn''t feel that he must choose.

I think that DB''s husband is fed up with a woman that he finds not shy, but rude.

Anyway, DB. Good Luck with this issue. I think the other women might have a better, more compassionate approach than mine.

Just wondering what you meant by saying, "I think that DB walks a fine line with her son.He shouldn''t have to choose..."
I presume you mean me--DeannaBana--as DB. Which son do I walk a fine line with? The engaged son or the son with the shy GF? Perosnally, I feel that I am a piece of emotional taffy that has had to tread ever so carefully with family members who get all riled up over an exceptionally shy GF. I would NEVER have my second son choose between family obligations and his GF. I have raised these kids with better standards and sense than that!

YOU try influencing 9 kids to be decent people who are mindful of manners, etiquette, academics and are sensitive to others and see just how arduous it is. Like any family, we have our share of dysfunctions. I have kids who steal amongst each other, fib, though not very good--not enough practice I guess, and they cause one another contention ever so often...but they love each other and respect most people. My second son''s GF is shy...and yes, this CAN be perceived as rudeness, but which would I rather have to deal with??? A shy GF who needs a little wake up to how she is coming across or a no good son impregnating every girl he can??? I think I have done damn good with these kids. Most of the child rearing has been handled solely by me. My hubby is a fantastic provider and an interactive dad, but when there has been illness or school related problems or anything else, it has been ONLY me that has handled it...and it has NOT been easy. I have a friend who has 3 boys and they have given her grief enough to equal 6 kids and she feels I have it pretty good. Now, how is THAT for an outsider''s perception?

My hubby is SERIOUSLY non confrontal and would sooner deal with our kids backmouthing me or saying "no" to a demand I make of them than to deal with a non-talking, painfully shy young woman. For crying out loud, she is 18, the oldest of 3 kids, and her father is getting over cancer. The whole family is VERY quiet. I believe that families have *personalities* and hers is extremely quiet. Mine is extremely loud. Its scary to come to my house and try to blend in!

I just wanted to say my peace on this cuz you need to see that alot of times its the OTHER person who has the problem...in my family''s case, I feel its my engaged son and my husband. Remember the ole saying..."no body''s happy unless mama''s happy"? Well, I am NOT happy and I plan to get together with second son''s GF as was kindly suggested in an earlier post from another PSer and just talk to her and make her aware of how she is coming across. I want to do this as loving and gently as possible with all the respect I would want others to bestow on me. I am going to approach it that way and see what happens. Maybe second son already gave her the "heads up" that I asked him to, so it won''t be so bad...

I know you all mean well...but plse understand the tight spot I am in...thank the Lord I am sensitive cuz by now you know how it would of turned out if I hadn''t of stepped in and stopped my hubby and engaged son! I will NOT have my family self-destruct over this...and it has the hothead potential to do so. I''ll keep ya posted...

 

[DonaBella]

Date: 9/26/2005 1:08:23 AM
Author: Jelly
Deanne,

I''ve found this thread very interesting.

First of all, I have to give you credit for thinking of everyone''s feelings concerning this matter. Your family is lucky to have such a compassionate person as their matriarch.

I come from a socially ''quiet'' family. I don''t know if it''s part of our culture being Japanese-Americans, but nonetheless we aren''t the ''dancing on tabletops/shouting across the dinner table'' type of family. I''ve always been told I was too quiet, too shy, blah blah blah by other people. Even accused of being boring, afraid and opinionless! (NOT TRUE!)

Looking at the relationships in my life, I''ve always hung around with similar types. Most of my friends are the quiet type and my fiance is extremely quiet in social situations.

Quiet people are good listeners, deep thinkers, intelligent, sensitive and extremely empathetic. Unfortunately many people do not get to know us because they don''t take the time to dig a little further. I''m sure once given the chance, your son''s gf will come around. Probably the worst thing you could do is make a big deal about her social shyness. The more pressure on her, the more she''ll close up! Try to include her in simple activities that don''t involve her talking. Invite her to join in a game of cards or sitting down and doing a puzzle with you. Maybe she wishes to get to know you better but just doesn''t know how to initiate it. Just act normal around her...If you are comfortable and happy the feeling will spread!

Good luck,
Stephanie

Thanks, Stephanie... I need all the support I can...if you ONLY knew...I mentioned in another response that my family is loud. They are except for me and one of my sons, age 13 1/2. He and I sometimes get lost in the loudness and rederick of our house. I agree that being quiet is not a bad thing, rather, a choice blessing. You can observe and see what is actually happening and take the time to act OR react. My husband and engaged son are reacters and often get their feelings hurt be4 they understand what could have been misperceived.

Thank you for your compliment on me being a compassionate matriarch, but I am positive my family would consider me more a liability than a benefit. I want desperately for everyone to be heard and valued. My core self will not permit me to quit pursuing this dream. I have become overwrought with concern though and am seeing a personal therapist to help me since I feel quite alone in my quest.

My personal family is distant by miles and by heart. I have 3 brothers, but only one is close to me and we call each other often. My mother is afflicted with dementia and Alzheimer''s will soon consume her so I am w/o my dear mother anymore. My father has all but given out to life and has not called or spoken to me since June as my mother demanded him not to anymore. So, perhaps, you and others reading this might further understand how important it is to me NOT to treat others with such disregard. I will stay focused on this and talk to the GF and we WILL find a way to help her not to be too overwhelmed with such an overwhelming family...mine.

Thank you for your time...

 

[DonaBella]

I thought I would let you know that I spoke to my second son and explained the situation to him as delicately as possible. He handled it VERY well and I am arranging to speak to the GF to gently make her aware of how she is coming across, emphasizing that I accept her and appreciate her and am anxious for the other family members--especially my husband and engaged son--to get to know her as well. That is where I plan to start.

I am NOT going to allow this to become an ugly thing when it has the potential to be a positive!

I will update you as things develop!

 

[AmberGretchen]

Good for you Deanna - it sounds like you are handling this in the most sensitive and compassionate way possible. I wish you the best of luck in working everything out.

 

[BigVig]

My two cents:

From the beginning this should have NEVER been a question of whether your son''ts shy girlfriend should be invited or not, out of basic respect to him and her because she''s a person that''s important to him, even if you think she''s rude, there should be no question, you invite her, period.

The question all along should have been how do you talk to your son to let him know how his girlfriend''s shyness is coming across, but that''s it... regardless of whether he talks to her, or if she responds to it or not, you invite her... your job as his family is to support him and the person he''s with, it''s not required that your like his girlfriend, it''s a question of whether you respect your son.

 

[Jelly]

Deanne,

OMG you are an amazing woman to raise 9 kids!!!!

Going back to your other thread about wanting a new diamond....I think you deserve a 10 carat!!!

Let your husband read that!

Stephanie

 

[DonaBella]

Date: 9/27/2005 9:42:20 PM
Author: BigVig
My two cents:

From the beginning this should have NEVER been a question of whether your son''ts shy girlfriend should be invited or not, out of basic respect to him and her because she''s a person that''s important to him, even if you think she''s rude, there should be no question, you invite her, period.

The question all along should have been how do you talk to your son to let him know how his girlfriend''s shyness is coming across, but that''s it... regardless of whether he talks to her, or if she responds to it or not, you invite her... your job as his family is to support him and the person he''s with, it''s not required that your like his girlfriend, it''s a question of whether you respect your son.

BigVig,
With all due respect it IS a question because my engaged son and husband have an issue with it. If I did not step in--as I mentioned earlier if you had read the previous posts--this would have been a powder keg exploding everywhere and doing more than a little damage. My whole intent in starting this thread was to draw differing points of view on how to handle this delicate situation. Thanks to so many here, I feel very much empowered and will move forward in making sure to do all I can to handle this as sensitively as possible--which (sorry hubby and engaged son!)--would not have if I had not had not begun this thread.

My hubby and engaged son are so incredibly blinded by their own preferences and biases that they cannot see how amazingly insensitive and hurtful they are--in my opinion. Yes, they have the right to feel and to be put off by her behavior but not to make like she has a disease?! For them, however, they still feel as they do and they do have that right, but I will be damned b4 I allow that cancerous position to ruin a family event of this caliber!

I DO support BOTH sons. You have no clue how much this has kept me awake. No one is aware of how tortured I have been over this. This is MY FAMILY and I will get this worked through with them--whether they want to or not--with a positive result for ALL concerned.

Check back here periodically and you will see how I take the reins and help EVERYONE to work through this...I don''t know how or when, but it WILL happen!

 

[msb700]

okay, have no idea how i missed all of this!!! just reading thru all these posts and seeing everyone''s perspective and opinions on this matter is really intersting...

but, my very late thought on this issue..

i agree with everyone who said that ur youngest son''s GF needs to be invitied to this wedding. Have you tried speaking to your son who is getting married about *why* he doesn''t want to invite her to the wedding? it might not be simply because she is *shy*, there must be another reason. I am sorry, but i find it very hard to believe that your son and husband are even considering not inviting the GF on the basis that she is *shy*....and if ur husband is everything like u said, then he shouldnt be the type of person to not invite someone purely on this!

You already spoke to ur young son about this which is very good, but give him the chance to talk to his gf..think about this..if she is shy, she is shy with everyone and it is part of her personality and u are asking her to change who she is and who she has been for ALL her life in a few days!? have u even considered her side of the story on this!? Why pose all this pressure on her!? what if she can''t change? what if she is still to shy to speak to ur family and become social? what happens then?? Have u not thought this mite be a medical condition? some ppl *CAN* be shy to that extreme!! as the frase goes ''i would die of shame''...yes!! thats how it all started...ppl dying coz they were so shy!!!

seriously though, not that i was trying to be that dramatic, but i wanted to point out how serious this issue is...if this girl means so much to your younger son and she mite be HIS wife someday, how would it make her feel that her ''prospective'' future family think so low of her to NOT invite her to a family wedding?? wat happens when the tables turn and SHE decides to not invite ur other son and husband to HER wedding because they are ''too social''....just remember, what goes around comes around and perhaps u need to point that out to ur husband and son....

just my two cents..

but if i was ever excluded from a famiy wedding, and not just any family wedding, but that of my BF''s brother!! i would be seriously seriously hurt and offended and it WILL cause a rift between me and my BF. think of it this way...ur youngest son will always be your youngest son..and he will always respect his family and put them first and foremost over everything...WHY put him in a position where he will need to defend either his GF or his parents?? It is unfair to ur son and unfair to his GF....i am so upset at this topic that i can''t even believe it was opened up for discussion!

sorry for ranting, but this truly is too much!!

 

[VuittonGal]

The girlfriend absolutely needs to be invited. What''s the reason behind it? I don''t think the fact that she''s shy is a good enough reason not to invite her to the wedding! Is there something else going on???

 

[AndyRosse]

Have your or your husband or other children ever tried to start a conversation with her when she comes in your house instead of just waiting for her to start one?? If your family has a problem with how she handles herself socially in your house, don''t just sit around and wait for her to suddenly morph into a socially energetic being. It won''t happen. Instead, you guys start saying "Hello X, how are you today?" when she comes in the house. Everytime. With a smile. I bet she will soon feel comfortable enough to say it first when she comes in. Also, if your husband and older son perceive her shyness as rude, isn''t quite possible that she is already feeling these "vibes" from them, and it just makes her more nervous and shy around you all?? Remember, as it was mentioned earlier, shy people get the opportunity to perceive a lot of things when they are just observing, and I''m sure your family isn''t sending off the best vibes at this point.

I guess this whole idea of not inviting her to the wedding just hits me hard. I''m an incredibly shy person until you get to know me, and then, you can''t shut me up. But I do feel intimidated around others in certain circumstances, and being in the presence of my BF''s large family definitely would be one of those intimidating situations. So since you all know she isn''t going to just run in the front door and hug and kiss you all, you guys take the initative. Otherwise, stop complaining about it and live with it. But your husband telling her that he perceives her as rude or your older son not inviting her to the wedding (whether it be your younger son and guest or an actual invite to her is another decision) is the least tactful way of addressing the problem that I can think of. Her shyness around your family isn''t just going to go away when she finds out what your husband and the rest of the family thinks of her. Actually, if I were her and found out all this right now, I wouldn''t step foot in your house again. Period. Not to mention that her learning of your family''s feeling about her shyness will probably just compound the entire problem.

Just my opinions of course.

 

[DonaBella]

Date: 9/28/2005 11:46:57 AM
Author: Stretch4
Have your or your husband or other children ever tried to start a conversation with her when she comes in your house instead of just waiting for her to start one?? If your family has a problem with how she handles herself socially in your house, don''t just sit around and wait for her to suddenly morph into a socially energetic being. It won''t happen. Instead, you guys start saying ''Hello X, how are you today?'' when she comes in the house. Everytime. With a smile. I bet she will soon feel comfortable enough to say it first when she comes in. Also, if your husband and older son perceive her shyness as rude, isn''t quite possible that she is already feeling these ''vibes'' from them, and it just makes her more nervous and shy around you all?? Remember, as it was mentioned earlier, shy people get the opportunity to perceive a lot of things when they are just observing, and I''m sure your family isn''t sending off the best vibes at this point.

I guess this whole idea of not inviting her to the wedding just hits me hard. I''m an incredibly shy person until you get to know me, and then, you can''t shut me up. But I do feel intimidated around others in certain circumstances, and being in the presence of my BF''s large family definitely would be one of those intimidating situations. So since you all know she isn''t going to just run in the front door and hug and kiss you all, you guys take the initative. Otherwise, stop complaining about it and live with it. But your husband telling her that he perceives her as rude or your older son not inviting her to the wedding (whether it be your younger son and guest or an actual invite to her is another decision) is the least tactful way of addressing the problem that I can think of. Her shyness around your family isn''t just going to go away when she finds out what your husband and the rest of the family thinks of her. Actually, if I were her and found out all this right now, I wouldn''t step foot in your house again. Period. Not to mention that her learning of your family''s feeling about her shyness will probably just compound the entire problem.

Just my opinions of course.

First of all, Stretch, you could have saved yourself key strokes by reading of the responses I gave to earlier posts by others. I get on famously with the GF and always have. She is a doll from what I know, but that has been limited--on her side. In the two years she has dated my son, she has been in our home a little more than a handful of times. She--of course--is nervous around our family, mostly because there is so many of us. I TOTALLY understand that and find no fault with that. With all due respect, I have made myself crystal clear, no...DIAMOND clear on my position in this mess. I have a lovely family event coming up and I want nothing but for everyone to get along and for this to be as blissful as possible, so I started this thread with the hopes of getting inspired by my fellow PSers who might see an option I had not considered.

This thread has worked for me thus far. Others have shared their feelings, their insights--very helpful often, sometimes very one-sided, too--but ALL is appreciated on my end.

Let me be perfectly frank, my husband and engaged son are completely narrow minded--IMO--on this, but it is still their opinions. I have a wonderful husband who just happens to have a major flaw with dealing with shy, painfully shy people who are at our home on a semi-often basis(she is coming over more and that is a good thing!

). EVERYONE has their flaws and I fail to see how this makes my hubby or my engaged son out to be anything other than very one-sided and highly uniformed on how to handle this in a tactful fashion.

I do agree that they need to "see the light" cuz if things continue--even a LITTLE like this--and she becomes my second daughter in law, boy oh boy will they have alot to deal with. I say "they" because its THEIR problem first. It is my problem because they are all part of my family.

Stretch, you have the right to your opinion and I honor and respect that. Thankfully, second son''s GF does not have an attitude like you do and she is welcome in my home anytime. That IS the intent here...hello...I WANT her to feel welcome and be more herself, even if being more herself is not much of a conversationlist...that is A-ok. If you fail to make others aware of what a behavior is being perceived as, it can never be modified. Everything I am speaking of takes immense tact and it is vital to be mindful of one''s body language as well as voice inflection.

Again, I actually appreciate you venting. I hold no ill will towards ANYONE in this forum for their comments or views. Now THAT is a form of tact, maturity and basic courtesy...

 

[DonaBella]

Date: 9/28/2005 1:31:31 AM
Author: msb700
okay, have no idea how i missed all of this!!! just reading thru all these posts and seeing everyone''s perspective and opinions on this matter is really intersting...

but, my very late thought on this issue..

i agree with everyone who said that ur youngest son''s GF needs to be invitied to this wedding. Have you tried speaking to your son who is getting married about *why* he doesn''t want to invite her to the wedding? it might not be simply because she is *shy*, there must be another reason. I am sorry, but i find it very hard to believe that your son and husband are even considering not inviting the GF on the basis that she is *shy*....and if ur husband is everything like u said, then he shouldnt be the type of person to not invite someone purely on this!

You already spoke to ur young son about this which is very good, but give him the chance to talk to his gf..think about this..if she is shy, she is shy with everyone and it is part of her personality and u are asking her to change who she is and who she has been for ALL her life in a few days!? have u even considered her side of the story on this!? Why pose all this pressure on her!? what if she can''t change? what if she is still to shy to speak to ur family and become social? what happens then?? Have u not thought this mite be a medical condition? some ppl *CAN* be shy to that extreme!! as the frase goes ''i would die of shame''...yes!! thats how it all started...ppl dying coz they were so shy!!!

seriously though, not that i was trying to be that dramatic, but i wanted to point out how serious this issue is...if this girl means so much to your younger son and she mite be HIS wife someday, how would it make her feel that her ''prospective'' future family think so low of her to NOT invite her to a family wedding?? wat happens when the tables turn and SHE decides to not invite ur other son and husband to HER wedding because they are ''too social''....just remember, what goes around comes around and perhaps u need to point that out to ur husband and son....

just my two cents..

but if i was ever excluded from a famiy wedding, and not just any family wedding, but that of my BF''s brother!! i would be seriously seriously hurt and offended and it WILL cause a rift between me and my BF. think of it this way...ur youngest son will always be your youngest son..and he will always respect his family and put them first and foremost over everything...WHY put him in a position where he will need to defend either his GF or his parents?? It is unfair to ur son and unfair to his GF....i am so upset at this topic that i can''t even believe it was opened up for discussion!

sorry for ranting, but this truly is too much!!

In a nutshell, my engaged son and his fiancee plan to have a sit down dinner and the invitee list is being kept at 150 invitees for cost sake.

I agree that she very well could be my next daughter in law and if you read over previous responses I gave you will see that I regard the GF as a doll and get on with her perfectly.

I appreciate your views and respect your opinions...

I promise to update you as things progress towards a positive result...WHICH IT WILL...

 

[DonaBella]

UPDATE!!!! I spoke with second son''s GF just 30 minutes ago and things are moving along ever SO smoothly...She has been told by others that her shyness can be perceived as being snobby and she is more than willing to merge more into what is going on with our family. She felt bad but not in a "well, I just won''t come to your home anymore" type of thing. She says she knows she is awkward in making small talk but wants desperately to change and is anxious to try to allow others--my family members--to get to know her and help her along.

I realize this is a small step, but to me, this is HUGE!!! And I wanted to share it...

Next...the husband...

Stay tuned...

 

[AmberGretchen]

Good for you Deanne - it sounds like you and the girlfriend had a productive discussion, and I''m sure appreciates your tact and sensitivity in alerting her to the issue without blaming her or embarrassing her.

Best of luck with your husband!

 

[msb700]

DB glad to hear that things went over smoothly with ur second son''s GF...she seems very understanding and considerate...wish u all the best and hopefully things only get better!

Sorry if some of my earlier opinions were harsh, i realize how u preceive ur son''s GF and how much you like and adore her, i was just simply ranting about the idea as a whole! didn''t mean to indicate u (or ur family) in anyway disliked her

best of luck with this and hopefully this issue will get resolved so u can start enjoying the actual process of helping ur son and future daughter in law in the wedding planning...