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What to look for in a Princess Cut (Experts and plebians welcome ;-) )

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esumsea

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Hey Guys,

Its been a while. I had such a good experience here when buying my emerald cut (Thanks again everyone!! I love the diamond and am very happily married!!) that I have recommended my friend to check out this forum, for he is searching for a princess cut. He is planning on going 1.5 - 2.0 carats
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so this advice is paramount.

I have sent him links to some of the primers and threads here, but have none seem a thread encompassing all you need to look for. I know fancy cuts are tricky in this respect. However, I know such things like being careful to look for imperfections at cornersand not getting anything under a medium girdle (to safeguard against chips) and concentrating on light return vs proportions are important. I know color is not as important as in my emerald cut, but I don''t know how low he can go before you start seeing that tinge of yellow. Could it b an H color or should he stick to a F or even lower? Inclusions are not as noticeable on a princess cut so I told him that he should not was his money on anything better than a vvs2 (preferably going with a eye clean VS2), for wear and tear will bring it lower than that rather quickly anyway, but maybe I am wrong here.

If anyone can contribute any information that you find important I would greatly appreciate it. This includes any links to other threads I may have missed or articles on the web.

INCULCATE ME!
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Kind Regards,
Mario
 
Date: 10/2/2008 11:47:08 AM
Author:esumsea
Hey Guys,

Its been a while. I had such a good experience here when buying my emerald cut (Thanks again everyone!! I love the diamond and am very happily married!!) that I have recommended my friend to check out this forum, for he is searching for a princess cut. He is planning on going 1.5 - 2.0 carats
3.gif
so this advice is paramount.

I have sent him links to some of the primers and threads here, but have none seem a thread encompassing all you need to look for. I know fancy cuts are tricky in this respect. However, I know such things like being careful to look for imperfections at cornersand not getting anything under a medium girdle (to safeguard against chips) and concentrating on light return vs proportions are important. I know color is not as important as in my emerald cut, but I don''t know how low he can go before you start seeing that tinge of yellow. Could it b an H color or should he stick to a F or even lower? Inclusions are not as noticeable on a princess cut so I told him that he should not was his money on anything better than a vvs2 (preferably going with a eye clean VS2), for wear and tear will bring it lower than that rather quickly anyway, but maybe I am wrong here.

If anyone can contribute any information that you find important I would greatly appreciate it. This includes any links to other threads I may have missed or articles on the web.

INCULCATE ME!
31.gif


Kind Regards,
Mario
Hi Mario, pleb here!

What I would suggest is for your friend to consider vendors who stock AGS0 cut grade Princess, that takes a lot of the guesswork out of it. There are many mediocre Princess out there, and you know how important cut quality is, so that would be how I would approach it. No worries with the girdle, avoid extremes but a thin girdle can be ok, watch out more for very thin, extremely thin and get an expert to evaluate it as it may or may not be an issue.

Colour and clarity are an individual preference, get your friend to view some well cut Princess in person so he can see what appeals to him, otherwise I would suggest F G or H colour in a Princess and clarity - VS to a verified eyeclean SI clarity.

As you know Princess can be challenging cutwise, so considering AGS0 cut grade or if shopping online, a GIA graded Princess which a vendor recommends and has done the cut analysis on could be a way to go.
 
Thanks Lorelei!
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Date: 10/2/2008 3:43:19 PM
Author: esumsea
Thanks Lorelei!
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Most welcome!
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Are there any proportions (Pavilion and Table %s) to look for if my vendor does not have AGS certs? Most pricescope results are coming in as GIA Certs. Hoping I can get this from whiteflash, though that is not set in stone right now.

Regards,
Mario
 
Ditto L, AGS0 is a pretty safe bet for a great princess cut. I personally think the H/SI1 range is still safe as long as the vendor verifies it''s eye clean. He may also want to check out Whiteflash''s "A Cut Above" princess cuts.
 
http://diamonds.pricescope.com/fnc1.asp
These are AGA guidelines for princess cut.

For ideal
table: 62-68%
crown ht: 10-15%
depth: 64-75%
girdle: very-think - slightly thick or thin - thick
 
Date: 10/2/2008 11:47:08 AM
Author:esumsea
I have sent him links to some of the primers and threads here, but have none seem a thread encompassing all you need to look for. I know fancy cuts are tricky in this respect. However, I know such things like being careful to look for imperfections at cornersand not getting anything under a medium girdle (to safeguard against chips) and concentrating on light return vs proportions are important. I know color is not as important as in my emerald cut, but I don''t know how low he can go before you start seeing that tinge of yellow. Could it b an H color or should he stick to a F or even lower? Inclusions are not as noticeable on a princess cut so I told him that he should not was his money on anything better than a vvs2 (preferably going with a eye clean VS2), for wear and tear will bring it lower than that rather quickly anyway, but maybe I am wrong here.

I think you''re on the right track, but there are a few corrections I''d make:

Cut - As Lorelei mentioned, sticking with AGS0 is a great idea because it takes a lot of the guesswork out of the equation. AGS is the only lab that grades the cut quality of a princess. Otherwise, ASET images are very helpful, but many vendors unfortunately don''t provide them. As for the AGA guidelines, I usually stick with something a little narrower to find the best cut:
-Table: look for a table less than the depth; beyond that, it doesn''t matter too much
-Depth: about 70-75%
-Crown/pavilion: I don''t pay attention to these
-Girdle: anything between thin and slightly thick. Any thicker is wasted carat weight, which isn''t good because princesses face up small to begin with. Any thinner puts the stone at risk for breakage. However, it''s a good idea to set a princess in V-prongs to safeguard against breakage, no matter what the girdle.

Color - A well-cut princess will face up nice and white down to about H-I color. My I colored princess looks like an F-G because of the cut quality. However, princesses do tend to show a bit more color than rounds, so he should keep that in mind. If the lowest color he would consider in a round stone is H, for example, he might want to consider G color princesses and above.

Clarity - An eye-clean SI1 or SI2 will look identical to an IF, as with any brilliant cut stone. So it doesn''t matter unless there''s a cultural/personal reason to look for higher clarity. However, on the VS/SI issue, a VS2 is virtually guaranteed to be eye-clean, so it may be a safer bet if it''s a stone he can''t look at in person before he buys. Finally, I don''t see why wear and tear would affect the clarity, at least not in his lifetime.

Good luck to your friend! We can try to suggest a few diamonds that would fit the bill if he''s interested in shopping online.
 
Stone-cold11 and jstarfireb,

Thanks so much for the info on what to look for. That is exactly what I was looking for! You guys really personafy the wonderful experience I have had on this forum. It is, by far, the most friendly and informative one I have joined concerning any subject.
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Well, it seems compared to emeralds, the princess are ideally deeper, though what to look for in a table, girdle, etc seems to be close.

If you guys want to suggest diamonds listed on pricescope, we would be open to, and thankful for that. I have already suggested a couple. I am currently trying to find out how important it is to him to have a square stone, rather than a slightly rectangular one. Square stone seem a lot harder to find and the chart says that 1.5 to 1.75 is preferable, which is weird. If anyone can explain this (does it have to do with the bow tie effect?) I would appreciate this.

Anyway, the search goes on. I must have been hooked last time, because, while I consider myself a good freind, I have already spent 5-6 hours on this search for him, which portends an addiction.
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Anyways, thanks agin to everyone!
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I really do appreciate it.

Kind Regards,
Mario
 
I think you mis-read about the square proportion. Square is 0.95-1.05. :p The proportion you showed below is for rectangle. Anyway, what kind of price range is he looking at?

wt = 1.5-2.0
color = H and above ?
clarity = SI1 and above?
$$$?
 
Stone Cold, thanks for clearing up the proportion thing. OK, let me get this info from him before anyone starts looking. I will post as soon as he lets me know.
Regards,
Mario
 
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