What the hell, gun people!?!

[momhappy]

There is 100% proof that a working mental health system would have prevented the Sandy Hook shooting.
His family was trying to get him help and the system failed and failed badly.
I know many families who have went through the same nightmare trying to get help for loved ones.
No, it didn't turn into a mass shooting but it did end in suicide.
Sometimes it turns outwards and you get mass killings.
In almost all the other mass shootings there was a a good chance a working mental health system would have helped prevent them also.

Can you provide a link with factual evidence?

100% proof???? It doesn't exist. The Sandy Hook shooting was extremely complex and you could blame any number of factors on it (the fact that he was on the autism spectrum, the fact that he played violent video games, the fact that his mother took him shooting, the fact that he had access to an arsenal of weapons in his home, the fact that he was bullied, the fact that he may have been on psychiatric medication, and on, and on, and on....). Would it have helped if there had been some sort of intervention somewhere along the way? Yes, probably so, but to say with 100% certainty that Sandy Hook would not have happened is pure speculation.

 

[movie zombie]

[quote="Amber St. Clare|1384634386|3557682].........I'm gonna lose any friends I may have on this board, but I hope ths b!tch is rotting in hell.[/quote]


I was heard to say at the time that she deserved what she got but no one else did.........

yeah, i'm right there with you: lost friends because i'm pro-gun but at the end of the day I blame her for it all. she KNEW. and yet she didn't remove the firearms from the home.

pro-gun but not stupid is my motto.

 

[Amber St. Clare]

[quote="Amber St. Clare|1384634386|3557682].........I'm gonna lose any friends I may have on this board, but I hope ths b!tch is rotting in hell.

I was heard to say at the time that she deserved what she got but no one else did.........

yeah, i'm right there with you: lost friends because i'm pro-gun but at the end of the day I blame her for it all. she KNEW. and yet she didn't remove the firearms from the home.

pro-gun but not stupid is my motto.[/quote][/quote]


Some of my friends think I am quite harsh in my asessement of blame, but honestly, I think she's just a responsible as her son.

Look, I understand mental health issues. I'm bi polar and it was only by luck of the draw I got the right doctor when I was hospitalized the second time. I also have excellent health insurannce and have seen friends not as lucky as I am try to navigate the mental health system for either a family member or themselves. We aren't the type of people who have guns, but my husbnd once said if he had one he would have gotten rid of it immediately when I started having problems. My BFF has paraonid schzophrenic brother and he frequenty messes with his meds and she's left to deal with it. I constantly worry he's gonna hurt her or someone else. He's on SSI nd has a script doctor and gets no therapy.

please excuse typos, arthritis is screaming today.

 

[momhappy]

I think that there were a lot of things that Adam's mom could have done differently to change the outcome. She knew he had a diagnosis, she knew he was bullied, she knew he was troubled, she knew that he routinely played violent video games (like Call of Duty), she knew that he had access to a house full of weapons, etc. Yes, as a parent, she is partly to blame. At the end of the day, he pulled the trigger, but it was a long, slow process that contributed to the outcome. I certainly don't like the fact that I feel like I need a gun to protect myself from people like Adam Lanza, but it is what it is and I will continue to defend people's right to bear arms and protect themselves as needed.

 

[Karl_K]

There is 100% proof that a working mental health system would have prevented the Sandy Hook shooting.
His family was trying to get him help and the system failed and failed badly.
I know many families who have went through the same nightmare trying to get help for loved ones.
No, it didn't turn into a mass shooting but it did end in suicide.
Sometimes it turns outwards and you get mass killings.
In almost all the other mass shootings there was a a good chance a working mental health system would have helped prevent them also.

Can you provide a link with factual evidence?

100% proof???? It doesn't exist. The Sandy Hook shooting was extremely complex and you could blame any number of factors on it (the fact that he was on the autism spectrum, the fact that he played violent video games, the fact that his mother took him shooting, the fact that he had access to an arsenal of weapons in his home, the fact that he was bullied, the fact that he may have been on psychiatric medication, and on, and on, and on....). Would it have helped if there had been some sort of intervention somewhere along the way? Yes, probably so, but to say with 100% certainty that Sandy Hook would not have happened is pure speculation.

If he had been in the hospital getting the help he needed then he would not have been free to go on a shooting spree. 100% stopped. Might he gone off meds after being released and do it anyway a few months down the road? Possible but how likely?

 

[momhappy]

There is 100% proof that a working mental health system would have prevented the Sandy Hook shooting.
His family was trying to get him help and the system failed and failed badly.
I know many families who have went through the same nightmare trying to get help for loved ones.
No, it didn't turn into a mass shooting but it did end in suicide.
Sometimes it turns outwards and you get mass killings.
In almost all the other mass shootings there was a a good chance a working mental health system would have helped prevent them also.

Can you provide a link with factual evidence?

100% proof???? It doesn't exist. The Sandy Hook shooting was extremely complex and you could blame any number of factors on it (the fact that he was on the autism spectrum, the fact that he played violent video games, the fact that his mother took him shooting, the fact that he had access to an arsenal of weapons in his home, the fact that he was bullied, the fact that he may have been on psychiatric medication, and on, and on, and on....). Would it have helped if there had been some sort of intervention somewhere along the way? Yes, probably so, but to say with 100% certainty that Sandy Hook would not have happened is pure speculation.

If he had been in the hospital getting the help he needed then he would not have been free to go on a shooting spree. 100% stopped. Might he gone off meds after being released and do it anyway a few months down the road? Possible but how likely?

Again, this is just speculation. There is no evidence, proof, etc. No one could say with 100% certainty what exactly would have stopped the events at Sandy Hook. I certainly wouldn't go around claiming to have all the answers and quite frankly, your comments seem to minimize/simplify the situation by saying if "x" would have happened, then "Y" would not have occurred. I think that most of us could agree that the situation was very complex and it was a series of events that led to the final outcome. It seems to me that many things could have been differently along the way that may have contributed to a different outcome, but that would just be speculation on my part.

 

[Loves Vintage]

There is 100% proof that a working mental health system would have prevented the Sandy Hook shooting.
His family was trying to get him help and the system failed and failed badly.
I know many families who have went through the same nightmare trying to get help for loved ones.
No, it didn't turn into a mass shooting but it did end in suicide.
Sometimes it turns outwards and you get mass killings.
In almost all the other mass shootings there was a a good chance a working mental health system would have helped prevent them also.

Can you provide a link with factual evidence?

"Nancy Lanza, the mother of the Sandy Hook shooter, was in the process of having her son committed to a psychiatric facility when he went on the mass shooting spree, a lifelong family acquaintance told Fox News."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/19/adam-lanza-motive_n_2329508.html

Thanks for posting the link, but no actual evidence there. Who knows maybe the 25 year old neighbor who heard about this was right? If so, that will come out in the final report.

The gunman's mother had many resources available to her. She also did not have a job, which means she had all the time in the world to care for her son. If he did suffer from a mental illness, presumably he would have been treated on an outpatient basis. But, I understand why people want to believe he was so severely mentally ill that he should have been committed, and I also understand why gun advocates want to disassociate as much as possible from him.

As to the C183 vs CZ83 matter, I suppose it doesn't really matter. His room was full of guns and ammo, the house was full of knives and swords. It really is beyond comprehension that all of that weaponry was still in the house, which also leads me to believe that there were no threat of gunman being committed.

 

[packrat]

I don't remember anyone saying that poor help for those w/mental health issues is the sole reason we have shootings in this country. I'm sure the gangs w/guns in the cities doing drive by's and whatever else, aren't really poor unfortunate souls who are only lacking in mental health programs. Terrorists, drug runners, gangs, they all have guns...the idiots JD deals w/in town here, the ones that think they're bad ass in a small town and the ones that moved here from Chicago that grew up w/bullet holes in their walls, they all have guns. They weren't all turned away at the local MHI for lack of beds. They're pieces of shit w/guns that they've either stolen or bought in a back alley somewhere.

 

[aljdewey]

I disagree entirely that gun reform is intended to reduce mass shootings only. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_..._death_since_newtown_sandy_hook_shooting.html "Using the most recent CDC estimates for yearly deaths by guns in the United States, it is likely that as of . . . 11/16/2013, roughly 30,575 people have died from guns in the U.S. since the Newtown shootings. Compare that number to the number of deaths reported in the news in our interactive [10,555], and you can see how undertold the story of gun violence in America actually is."

I mentioned this earlier: of those 30,575 gun fatalities, 62% (nearly 19,000) were suicides, not homicides. Gun reform, while well meaning, isn't going to reach those unless it's 'all guns are illegal', and that's not realistic.

 

[aljdewey]

Murderers vary.
Some are mentally ill, others not.

Pro-gun people saying the problem is not guns but rather that mentally ill people don't get help is a strawman.

And anti-gun people saying that gun reform is going to make a substantive difference even though homicides are committed substantially by criminals (who will not give a rat's ass about gun reform) or people struggling with mental troubles is an even bigger strawman.

 

[movie zombie]

Murderers vary.
Some are mentally ill, others not. Pro-gun people saying the problem is not guns but rather that mentally ill people don't get help is a strawman.

And anti-gun people saying that gun reform is going to make a substantive difference even though homicides are committed substantially by criminals (who will not give a rat's a$$ about gun reform) or people struggling with mental troubles is an even bigger strawman.

amen, sister, amen!

 

[packrat]

Murderers vary.
Some are mentally ill, others not.

Pro-gun people saying the problem is not guns but rather that mentally ill people don't get help is a strawman.

And anti-gun people saying that gun reform is going to make a substantive difference even though homicides are committed substantially by criminals (who will not give a rat's a$$ about gun reform) or people struggling with mental troubles is an even bigger strawman.

thank you