What is a reasonable price for this Emerald cut?

[Nicrez]

My friend is looking for an elogated emerald cut, and she found this one, but hasn''t been given a price yet. What would you guys say is a fair market value, too much, and then the VERY good deal? She is asking for a certain amount off of RAP, but I believe RAP price per carat on this stone is about $19,600. That''s what she said she found.

5.72 Ct Emerald cut
Color: F
Clarity: VS2
Measurements: 12.0 x 9.23 x 5.86
Depth: 63.5
Table: 65
Girdle: Med to SLTK
Polish: Goog
Sym: Good
No FL

This stone is tough to find, as she wanted an F, VS2, and at this size, they seem to be quite raren right now... Thanks for the help!!!

 

[AChiOAlumna]

I did a search on PS with similar parameters to give you a price range...this is what I found:

6.00 E VS1 67% 68% GIA -   gd gd no 12.6x9.03x6.05 $24009 $144056*SP
5.72 F VS1 66.6% 60% GIA thn-sl thk sm gd vg no 12.40x8.69x5.79 $23107 $132173S
5.72 F VS1 66.6% 60% GIA -   gd vg no 12.4x8.69x5.79 $21948 $125544*SP
5.65 E VS2 64.6% 62% GIA v thn-thk sm vg vg no 11.97x9.05x5.85 $21507 $121516S
5.02 E VS1 65.7% 65% GIA -   vg ex no 13.1x7.82x5.14 $22722 $114063*SP
5.02 E VS1 65.7% 65% GIA med-thk no vg ex no 13.10x7.82x5.14 $22526 $113080S
5.07 E VS2 68.9% 67% GIA stk-tk no gd vg no 8.34*11.45*5.75 $20880 $105862
5.02 E VS2 73.6% 61% GIA med-sl thk no gd gd no 11.12x8.00x5.89 $21079 $105818S
5.00 E VS2 73.5% 56% GIA med-thk sm gd gd no 10.18x8.99x6.61 $21079 $105397S

HTH!!

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Caution! These stones are extremely hard to come by.
Looking at the list that AChiOAlumna posted, there is duplication- the same stones are listed twice, with slightly different prices.
This means the sellers do not actually have the diamond in hand ( at least one of them anyway)- when an actual call for a particual diamond is made, you may find that it''s either
a) sold
b) been re-priced

nicrez- I''d say that it''s likely that your friend will have to pay Rap, or even above it- to get such a stone today.

 

[Nicrez]

David, I know it's a tough stone to come by.

I have already been with her to some of the top sellers of diamonds, besides the luxury-end stores. We saw some big shot seller and he had three decent emerald cuts about 5-7 carats, three large princess stones and an Asscher and she looked at him skeptically and said, "THAT'S all you have to show me?!" The diamond broker who came with us laughed at her guts to say that to this diamond guy, but I was silently thinking that myself...

She is very picky (she is also a new GG) and she is very much a bargainer. I respect that she understands how hard her fiance has worked for this e-ring budget, so she is trying to get a deal and make the most of it.

So, you think that a good deal would be anything short of RAP price, and an average deal would be Rap price, so logically anything over Rap would still be OK? I know she is looking for a discounted price, I was just wondering at what discount are we talking wholesale prices?

If there is anyone in the industry please feel free to PM me if you can answer that, but don't want to announce that.

 

[Nicrez]

BUMP....anyone???

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Nicrez- let''s think about your friend''s position.
She wants to find a major league seller- then she wants to use her new found knowledge to rip apart every stone she sees, till she finds the hyperthetical perfect 5.50 E/VS1. Then she wants the seller to heavily discount this perfect stone.

Sounds like a tough sale.

You are taking the time to learn more about the market, which will prove invaluable should you ever decide to use your degree to earn money.

Not a lot of companies could put together three such stones today

 

[icelady]

Date: 5/26/2005 8:05:12 PM
Author: Nicrez

She is very picky (she is also a new GG) and she is very much a bargainer. She will haggle the last penny if she has to, which is so funny, as she is pretty well off. I respect that she understands how hard her fiance has worked for this e-ring budget, so she is trying to get a deal and make the most of it.

Just a consumer here, not an expert, but I have to ask...why is this person asking a diamond broker to (in a sense) finance part of her engagement ring instead of lowering her size requirement to stay within her fiance''s ''hard earned'' e-ring budget? Maybe I have missunderstood.

 

[Nicrez]

There is nothing wrong in my book in looking for a good stone, using the knowledge she has. Actually, as a GG I would be remiss if I was not looking as she was. I guess I would want to the absolute best, ESPECIALLY if I am getting something significantly large. I would consider a 5 ct+ an heirloom piece and an investment.

In a normal business cycle, a person who wants a good deal can ASK for the best price. The seller with the best purchase price on a stone can lower the price to the level of the consumer's satisfaction, and the better buyer gets the sale. I don't feel bad for either party as no one is coerced into anything, and they both are mutually benefitted to transact. If not, the seller won't seller or the buyer won't buy. The transaction itself is an agreement by both parties of mutual agreement on the price so both are happy or the sale doesn't happen. It's just a matter of who fits with her budget and demand.

David, when it comes to this girl being unfair with these diamond dealers by asking for a better price, I don't think they will complain in the future.

Her husband buys her bracelets and necklaces constantly. We went to a JA show and he ended up buying her a $20K bracelet because she liked the item. She is a good future customer and her friends network are just as happy to buy as she is. To make her happy on a sale is not so much a sacrifice as it is an investment in a good client base.

Icelady: The diamond broker is just there to introduce her to the brokers who can not ba accessed by the public. He also, I assume gets a percentage of the price, as a finder of sorts. I am not sure if this stone was found through this method, because I think she found it herself.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Hi Nicrez-
I never meant to imply that there''s anything wrong with asking for the best price- it''s an essential step in the purchase.

But there are ways of doing things that will make getting that better price more likely.
Ridiculing someone because "all they had was $500,000 worth of 5 carat stones" probably is not going to help that cause.

So, here you are getting to see some major league people, yet your friend may have no idea who she just insulted. The broker may have laughed, but also may have wished for a different outcome.
Do you think your the person who showed you these stones is going to rush out and get some more so a new GG can tell him what''s wrong with them?
No question, her money is good, and a lot of folks will be happy to sell to her. I''m sure you''ll find someone that matches your requirements- I''m just commenting on tthe meeting you''ve described.

I see that you are educating yourself to the market- but remember- getting the GG degree does NOT give a person real life experience in the market- such knowledge is essential to trade properly.

A little knowledge ( or a lot, but not enough knowledge) can be a dangerous thing

 

[Rank Amateur]

Is $19600 the correct Rap list?

 

[valeria101]

Date: 5/27/2005 7:52:05 AM
Author: Nicrez

In a normal business cycle, a person who wants a good deal can ASK for the best price. The seller with the best purchase price on a stone can lower the price to the level of the consumer''s satisfaction, and the better buyer gets the sale.

If there are not that many diamonds like those, I can''t see why different sellers might bid down the price for her. If this is the tradition for diamond bying, than negotiating the first quote sounds reasonable as long as there is some refference in sight.

Hopefully the range of options you lucky girls have seen up until now was a good step to gain confidence, if at least some of the goods were pleasing. Did anything stand out ?

 

[Nicrez]

Date: 5/27/2005 12:38:25 PM
Author: diamondsbylauren
Hi Nicrez-
I never meant to imply that there's anything wrong with asking for the best price- it's an essential step in the purchase.

But there are ways of doing things that will make getting that better price more likely.
Ridiculing someone because 'all they had was $500,000 worth of 5 carat stones' probably is not going to help that cause.

So, here you are getting to see some major league people, yet your friend may have no idea who she just insulted. The broker may have laughed, but also may have wished for a different outcome.
Do you think your the person who showed you these stones is going to rush out and get some more so a new GG can tell him what's wrong with them?
No question, her money is good, and a lot of folks will be happy to sell to her. I'm sure you'll find someone that matches your requirements- I'm just commenting on tthe meeting you've described.

I see that you are educating yourself to the market- but remember- getting the GG degree does NOT give a person real life experience in the market- such knowledge is essential to trade properly.

A little knowledge ( or a lot, but not enough knowledge) can be a dangerous thing

David, I understand now. She is actually a bit of a character. She says it like it is, and it's certainly NOT something i would have ever said myself. I am far too socially conservative to ever do that. But I DID think it. To me, this gentleman had some of the most impressive colored diamonds (and most voluminous) collection I have ever seen. He obviously does well in the industry and even showed us a 16ct D Flawleass Asscher cut. It was breathtaking!

But from that meeting there was one stone I saw and personally would have spent money on it, if I had it. It was an F SI1, 5.05ct or so, set with baguette sides made by Van Cleef over 50 years ago. It was lovely, BUT she didn't want it because she felt that the price was too high and the cut was not optimal. it had a larger table and shallower depth, so it didn't have much fire or brilliance as much.

This stone she told me about above was described as PERFECT, so I assume it had enough fire and brilliance for her taste. It also seems to be larger, better clarity and more of what she wanted. I think she worried about the price. As far as I know it was a deal.

She is a tough customer. That I won't deny. We actually sat at Jacob & Co looking at pieces. She knows him and we actually found him in the diamond district at his old location, and we shared a cab to his new place. When he asked how he knew her because she was familiar but couldn't place her, she said, "Maybe I dated you a while ago." She is just that kind of person that what comes in her head comes out of her mouth.

Her friend the diamond broker said, "you are going to be a big something in the industry. Either people LOVE you, or they HATE you." That's how she is. She has a hell of a heart and is such a fascinating person, very warm and funny, but she doesn't mince words, no matter who she speaks to.

Do I do it? No. Do I feel the little book learning I have is enough to get me by? No. I still have much to learn, and plan on taking more courses, as well as reading trade publications, learning for PS, talking to industry professionals and even attending GIA Alumni lectures.

I know I have NO experience in the industry, so I am hoping to learn a lot more there... But I keep my eyes and ears open, and I was just glad to be a part of a 5+ carat hunt and meet the Diamantaires I have so far...

 

[moremoremore]

well, i know one thing for sure. I could simply NOT be friends with her. Unless I could borrow the darn thing.

 

[Nicrez]

I think I'll gain some weight so we can be the same rings size. Poor guys has such long fingers her hands look "bare" with anything smaller...

Yes, I think I need to gain some weight, if only I could do that to my DIAMOND... hee hee

 

[bluedawg]

Nicrez, I have nothing to add. But I do think you have a very fun "job"! Enjoy those beautiful stones on the search.