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What do you do when an ebay purchase doesn''t arrive?

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Hudson_Hawk

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I ordered a pair of jeans off of Ebay two weeks ago and they''ve not arrived. The seller said she sent them parcel post, so there''s no tracking number. I''ve never NOT had anything show up, and the seller has an excellent rating on Ebay. I know it''s not her fault, but I''m out $50! Is this just an instance of "buyer beware", or should I ask for a refund?
 

Italiahaircolor

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
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5,184
It can''t hurt to ask for a refund....did you use Paypal? They will refund you for sure.
 

neatfreak

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Honestly parcel post takes FOREVER so it is very possible that they''ll still make it there. I''ve had parcel post things take 3 weeks to make it across the US sometimes.
 

diane5006

Brilliant_Rock
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Apr 8, 2003
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652
Hi Hudson

Actually it is kind of their fault

Regardless of what they say in the listing...it IS their responsibility to get the item to you in the condition it was listed as...(that is their part of the deal) just taking it to the post office is not enough...they also have to provide on-line proof of delivery (deliv conf if using USPS)

That being said there is a FTC thing that allows them 30 days to ship...

However...ebay has policies in place where you can file a claim...

The one you would use in this case the Item Not Received (INR)...It may be lumped in with the Significantly Not As Described (SNAD)

You have up to 45 days after end auction (EOA) to start claim...but it must be at least 10 after EOA

If you start the claim...do not close it until it is resolved..ie you have your money or the item...do not fall for the I can't get you your money/item until you close the dispute.

If you file the claim Paypal (assuming you paid that way) will most likely rule in your favor...because there is no online deliv conf (if I read you post correctly)

But you should contact the seller first...maybe it hasn't been mailed yet for some reason an e-mail through eBay best bet...or you can call them...I think e-mail best

I will get you the link

This is from the eBay answer center

"Item Not Received

If you paid for an item and it hasn’t been received, contact your seller first. If you get no response from the seller or they are uncooperative, and it’s been longer than 10 days, you can file an Item Not Received dispute.



http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/inr-snad-process.html



If you mailed you payment, you should wait a little longer to allow time for your check or money order to arrive and to clear."

I am going to post the link for the Answer Center....really helpful people there (like Pscope for ebay issues
)

http://pages.ebay.com/community/answercenter/index.html

Best of luck


 

Diamond*Dana

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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7,166
Insurance is for the sellers protection, not the buyer. You could give it a little more time to show up, but isn''t parcel post 2-9 days? Either way, you are entitled to a refund if they do not show up. Good luck!
 

MichelleCarmen

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Two weeks isn''t that long. It may have taken her a few days to get to the post office.

FWIW, this happened to me, except I was the *seller* and had sold an item for $43 that the buyer never got. We waited an entire month before trying to figure out what to do, and I ended refunding her half the money since neither of us realized the importance of getting insurance (even on small purchases). The buyer and I both thought that was the least painful way of resolving the loss.
 

Steel

Ideal_Rock
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Great post Diane.

Hope it arrives HH, if not fingers crossed for a speedy resolution.
 

LGK

Ideal_Rock
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I would also add that if the item is returning to the seller for whatever reason (she addressed it incorrectly, the postage was wrong etc.) it could take as long as a month to turn up. Or longer. And, if the seller is a pretty active one, it *will* happen sometime, for whatever reason.

Heck, I just had a returned-to-sender package I sent to Germany in *MAY OF 2008* show up yesterday!
 

Sabine

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I would give it at least another week. If it still hasn''t shown up, I would first contact the seller and explain what happened and ask for a refund. Then, proceed from their with filing a claim (did you pay through paypal? You can do it through them as well as through ebay) if the seller doesn''t cooperate in a way you see fit.

You might be surprised with ebay sellers. Just recently, I had someone refund me a few bucks because they said they overestimated shipping costs. Then, through a paypal glitch, paypal deducted a payment twice, and a seller refunded it immediately when I pointed it out (paypal was a pain though).
 

Hudson_Hawk

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Would someone please look at this listing and tell me if it says the seller doesn''t give refunds?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=180325936248

The package STILL hasn''t arrived and the seller is now claiming that her listing specifies that she doesn''t give refunds. I want my f''ing money back! It''s been a full MONTH since the jeans were paid for. She claims she has proof of mailing them, but what good does that do me? She also said she miscalculated the shipping cost. I feel like I did everything I, as the buyer, was supposed to do. I bid, I won, and I paid for the item and the specified shipping costs. How are the pants NOT arriving my responsibilty?

Here''s her email response to my latest email stating that the jeans haven''t arrived and asking for a refund.

"don''t do refunds. My listing says that. I did mail them and have proof of mailing. You didn''t ask for tracking. I''ve contacted ebay about this for advice."

Is she being unreasonable, or am I???
 

Hudson_Hawk

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Here''s my response to the last email:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=180325936248

Here''s the listing. I don''t see any references to refunds or a return policy.

There''s a HUGE difference between refunding someone''s money because they don''t like the product or it doesn''t fit and refunding someone''s money because the product never arrives. As the seller you''re responsible for ensuring that the customer gets the product he/she ordered and paid for. If you miscalculated the postage and/or the USPS lost the package, then I consider you liable. As the customer I did everything I was supposed to do. I bid on your product, I won, I paid for your product and I paid your specified shipping amount. As the seller it is your responsibility to get my the product I ordered in the condition it was listed in. Just taking it to the post office isn''t enough.

I''m filing an "item not received" claim with ebay right now. I will leave my feedback when this issue has been resolved.
 

MichelleCarmen

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Did you pay via Pay Pal? You can file a dispute with them if the item doesn''t arrive and cross your fingers that works. Either the seller is cooperative and then will refund your money, OR you have to ask PP to review the case.

I recently filed a PP claim and they wouldn''t refund my money because the item DID arrive, just that it was opened
For you, since the jeans never showed up, you have a valid claim.
 

Hudson_Hawk

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I filed a claim through paypal, but it seems like they just open an email for you to send to the seller. Which I had already done. I can''t file a dispute with my bank, because I paid via transfer vs. on a card. This sucks.
 

MichelleCarmen

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Date: 3/6/2009 11:45:59 AM
Author: Hudson_Hawk
I filed a claim through paypal, but it seems like they just open an email for you to send to the seller. Which I had already done. I can''t file a dispute with my bank, because I paid via transfer vs. on a card. This sucks.
If the seller doesn''t respond to the email, you can ask PP to review the case and they''ll make the final decision.
 

Hudson_Hawk

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Just for future reference, where''s the button I click to do that?
 

MichelleCarmen

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Date: 3/6/2009 11:52:03 AM
Author: Hudson_Hawk
Just for future reference, where's the button I click to do that?
Here is page that provides a link to a step-by-step tutorial. Let me know if you don't find the info. I'm going offline now and trying to get my butt over to my eliptical and workout
, but will have time later to answer questions. . .

Oops, that's the seller's guide. . .sorry, hopefully it'll guide you from there.

https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/cps/securitycenter/sell/SellerGuide-outside
 

fleur-de-lis

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Apr 25, 2007
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HudsonHawk, I''m going to defer to MC b/c it sounds like she has more experience and that you''re in very capable hands with her help.

[FWIW, I''ve been on the other side of the equation once in the past, i.e. I was the seller and the buyer said the package did not arrive. She disputed with Paypal, Paypal contacted me and was most specifically interested in tracking numbers with proof of mailing (and had a data field for it before any exposition options), I supplied it, and since the USPS website verified the package in transit, Paypal was able to verify that the package had been sent and was still in the possession of the USPS and sided with me specifically because I had a verifiable proof of mailing. Anyhow, the moral of the story is that if she can prove via a tracking number that it was sent, they''ll side with her because she has proof of turning over delivery to a carrier; if she doesn''t have a working tracking number, they''ll side with you. From what you wrote, it sounds like she''s told you that she didn''t have one and then she told you that she did; if she has one, I''m assuming you''ve asked her for it and she hasn''t supplied it? Is that correct? If so, I''d report to Paypal and have THEM but the "burden of proof of mailing" on her.]
 

Hudson_Hawk

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she says she sent them parcel post and pp doesn''t have tracking numbers.
 

fleur-de-lis

Brilliant_Rock
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Apr 25, 2007
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Date: 3/6/2009 12:51:13 PM
Author: Hudson_Hawk
she says she sent them parcel post and pp doesn''t have tracking numbers.
Yep, then she''s going to have an awfully hard time proving to Paypal that she actually sent them.

Report to Paypal and request your money back. Let them investigate. If she hasn''t learned that items of value merit not cheaping out on postage, then she will when Paypal credits your money back. (As I mentioned earlier, I don''t sell much on ebay; I quickly learned, however, that saving 75 cents by not at least buying a Delivery Confirmation is a "penny wise, pound foolish" thing for a seller to do.)

How many days has it been so far?
 

Hudson_Hawk

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The transaction was on 2/10.
 

VRBeauty

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First, check with the post office to see whether there''s any chance that the package is still en route. Then, file a claim with paypal. The process takes some time, and requires that you go through dispute resolution formalities first, but it will be resolved eventually -- and most likely in your favor. Effectively the seller refunds your money, so don''t expect her to be happy about it or cooperative.
 

fleur-de-lis

Brilliant_Rock
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More than 21 days, then? Yeah, consider this another vote for asking for Paypal protection/investigation. Life''s easier if you''re not jumping the gun, but as Parcel Post supposedly takes 2-9 business days, it''s more than reasonable at this point to ask for intervention. If she can prove that the USPS has it and as lost it, she won''t be held responsible. If she cannot document turning it over to a responsible shipper, then they will judge in your favor.

And, if for some reason it shows up in April, you can always contact Paypal again and reverse the reversal.

So yes, IMO if it hasn''t arrived in 24 days, your have been more than patient by any reasonable standard and it is indeed prudent to get Paypal involved to cancel the transaction, approve/conduct an investigation, and issue a refund.
 

starsapphire

Shiny_Rock
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Apr 7, 2006
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471
Hi, I hope this gets resolved for you to get what you paid for, or your money back.

Whenever I sell anything on Ebay, if it is over about $20, I at least get a "confirmation number". That costs an additional 55 cents. That''s the little green sticker thing with the barcode. I just write who that went to and what the item is. That lets me know when I sent it, and when it was delivered. And if there is a dispute, then I can at least show proof of shipping. If something is over $50, I will insure it, even if I don''t charge the customer, as the insurance is for me, the seller, and in the long run, it really pays off if there is a problem. If there is a dispute with something, usually PP and Ebay will put a hold on your account for buying or selling until the problem is resolved, and if it is not, there could be ramifications for the seller, such as suspension and other things that would hamper their business on Ebay. Unless things have changed, things always seem to be changing on there.....
 

starsapphire

Shiny_Rock
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471
I''m sorry to post again, but, what I should have said above is that the seller has an obligation to do everything possible to satisfy their end of the transaction, and by using confirmation numbers or insurance. If they did not do that, and cannot prove that they sent the item, and it never shows up, then you should get your money back, whether or not the seller wants to give it back to you. It is their fault for not taking due diligence with the postage. Ebay and PP do take this seriously. I have had at least one instance that someone wanted a refund, and I was kinda stuck not being able to buy or sell until I resolved the issue.
 

Allison D.

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Feb 1, 2008
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Date: 3/6/2009 11:11:47 AM
Author: Hudson_Hawk
Would someone please look at this listing and tell me if it says the seller doesn''t give refunds?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=180325936248

The package STILL hasn''t arrived and the seller is now claiming that her listing specifies that she doesn''t give refunds. I want my f''ing money back! It''s been a full MONTH since the jeans were paid for. She claims she has proof of mailing them, but what good does that do me? She also said she miscalculated the shipping cost. I feel like I did everything I, as the buyer, was supposed to do. I bid, I won, and I paid for the item and the specified shipping costs. How are the pants NOT arriving my responsibilty?

Here''s her email response to my latest email stating that the jeans haven''t arrived and asking for a refund.

''don''t do refunds. My listing says that. I did mail them and have proof of mailing. You didn''t ask for tracking. I''ve contacted ebay about this for advice.''

Is she being unreasonable, or am I???
Her listing says she doesn''t take RETURNS: "Seller''s payment instructions - Payment must be made within 3 days after end of auction, by pay pal or money order/cashiers check. You must contact me within 3 days of end of auction if you are paying by money order/cashiers check. No returns! Thanks for shopping!"

You aren''t asking for a return. You are claiming that you didn''t receive the item you purchased, and that IS her responsibility.

If you paid through Paypal, I''d dispute the charges.

Regarding her shipping parcel post: Her problem. She chose the shipping method, you didn''t. She''s responsible for the product until you receive it. If it''s missing, it''s up to her to file the claim, etc.
 

Hudson_Hawk

Super_Ideal_Rock
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She does have a receipt for the postage she paid, but is that enough? Does the receipt even show the destination of the package? If the receipt (which I haven''t seen) does list my zip code, who do I follow up with, the USPS?
 

beach

Brilliant_Rock
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Dec 16, 2007
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714
Seller is supposed to prove that the item was delivered and a receipt means nothing without signature confirmation on the package. I would not worry about a thing if it does not arrive. You will get your money back. Relax and see if it shows up before attacking the seller. You said they have alot of great feedback right? I remember I sent a package I sold via registered mail and it took almost 2 weeks!!! Not my fault at all and delays sometimes happen. Registered is the safest way to mail too! The buyer panicked and started getting mad. Once it arrived they apologized and realized it was a waste of time panicking. Let the process unfold and try not to let your emotions get the best of you. The seller needs to prove delivery and if they do not, you get your money back. You don't need to contact anyone but paypal....These policies are written in paypal info....
 

Hudson_Hawk

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Date: 3/6/2009 2:48:33 PM
Author: beach
Seller is supposed to prove that the item was delivered and a receipt means nothing without signature confirmation on the package. I would not worry about a thing if it does not arrive. You will get your money back. Relax and see if it shows up before attacking the seller. You said they have alot of great feedback right? I remember I sent a package I sold via registered mail and it took almost 2 weeks!!! Not my fault at all and delays sometimes happen. Registered is the safest way to mail too! The buyer panicked and started getting mad. Once it arrived they apologized and realized it was a waste of time panicking. Let the process unfold and try not to let your emotions get the best of you. The seller needs to prove delivery and if they do not, you get your money back. You don''t need to contact anyone but paypal....These policies are written in paypal info....
Um...it''s been a month. I think I''ve been very patient thus far. And where did I attack the seller?
 

fleur-de-lis

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Date: 3/6/2009 2:00:31 PM
Author: Hudson_Hawk
She does have a receipt for the postage she paid, but is that enough? Does the receipt even show the destination of the package? If the receipt (which I haven''t seen) does list my zip code, who do I follow up with, the USPS?
You don''t follow up with either once you send the issue to Paypal; they are going to ask her to provide it to them.

If they determine that she does have proof of mailing, yes, you''d have to take it up with the USPS. Unfortunately, StarSapphire is only somewhat right about insurance as seller protection; from Paypal/Ebay''s perspective, once the seller can prove that they put it in the hands of the carrier than the seller is not responsible. [In essence, and for those law geeks out there soon to study for the Bar exam though I wil qualify that the following does not constitute legal advice and is just chatter over the internet, Paypal/ebay uses the FOB ("Free on Board") standpoint instead of CIF ("Cost, Insurance, Freight"), and thus shifts the risk of loss during transit from seller to buyer.] As an FOB transaction, insurance *technically* protects the buyer in FOB shipping, but to back up Starsapphire, a happy buyer who gets free insurance from the seller protects the seller from hassle and negative feedback that can occur when a package gets lost through no fault of her own.

So submit to Paypal. If she can prove to their satisfaction that she fulfilled her obligations as seller, then yes, she''s off the hook and you would have to turn to USPS. (As for your last question, I have no experience whether a receipt with a zip code is enough for paypal, but judging by the form I was sent it wouldn''t be enough for a quick judgment like I was able to get... though I don''t know if there''s some sort of additional review b/c I received what was, in essence, a summary judgment.)
 

icekid

Ideal_Rock
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Nov 17, 2004
Messages
7,470
I agree this is the responsibility of the seller. And it happened to me the sale of a book on ebay too. Shocker, USPS ruined the package and lost the book. I returned the money to the buyer and I was out the book. USPS returned me a shredded envelope


She is being absolutely ridiculous with her claim on no returns = no refunds. Whaaat? These are two seriously unrelated issues.
 
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