What can I get?

[ManhattanSpin]

Over the weekend, my girlfriend and I started to browse for engagement rings. I've got to tell you that it was a thrilling, yet confusing experience and one where both of us were pretty indecisive.

What we took away from our stops in Tiffany and Cartier were that she wants a round and I think it needs to be at least 2.5 cts...of course bigger is always good too. She was 50/50 on whether she liked just the solitaire or also the halo.

From my research, it seems pretty important to get the 3 excellents (cut, symmetry, polish) from an outside appraiser like GIA.

I would say my budget is somewhere between $50-75k (based on prices we saw at the stores). I am willing to be flexible if I am at the tipping point of getting a lot more bang for my buck. Not really sure what point that is.

In terms of the source of the diamond, I would prefer to buy through a brick and mortar location for peace of mind.

Now...what do you think I can reasonably get for the best mix of totally eye clean, white and as large as I can go...

Really appreciate the help.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

We have very recently had a couple of people looking at the mid-2 ct. range. You are correct to look for GIA Ex/Ex/Ex and the only other reliable lab would be AGS, and their Ideal cut is their top quality stone. You have a wonderful budget and will be able to get a very nice stone and setting. Good Old Gold in Long Island is a great family owned brick and mortar who also happens to sell on the internet. ID Jewelry is another that is located in Manhattan. I have dealt with WhiteFlash several times, and while they are not a B&M, they surely do have outstanding diamonds. Here is one at the top of your range:

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2681948.htm

At the moment, Good Old Gold just has one listed around your size target, but they can definitely pick up more stones for you to look at. They will test the stones for you and even make a video.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9110/

 

[diamondseeker2006]

This diamond is sold but a good example of a nice balance of color and clarity at the low end of your budget:

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2763542.htm

 

[MissStepcut]

How white is "white" to you? Here's a diamond with mostly twinning wisp inclusions (very hard to see with the naked eye) in H that's over a carat over your goal and on the low end of your budget:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1454393.asp

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Here are some more from James Allen (not a brick and mortar but they are owned by a diamond supplier and other vendors can call in these stones and run the tests on them. But it will cost you more to do that. (I only looked at D-G color and VVS and VS clarity.)

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1390013.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1465073.asp

There are some others potentially, but I didn't want to spend any more time looking through all their lab reports unless you were interested in buying from them.

 

[ManhattanSpin]

Really appreciate the help.

I am thinking that I want to guarantee that it will be totally eye clean of blemishes. So I think that makes the lowest clarity I am willing to do probably the VS2 with a good stone...right?

As far as how white I want it...well, I don't want it to even have a slight tint. So I am guessing it has to be G color or above...yes?

I know from reading the forum that cut is by far the most important thing, so I want to make sure I get the stone from a place that really does a great job with the cut. I am not willing to sacrifice.

I appreciate you sending me the links to these stones. It would be great if I could get a 3 ct stone I think that is a sparkly as those in Cartier and Tiffany.

Sorry for being such a novice...

 

[Dreamer_D]

Aiming for G VS2 is a great plan for your goals. When you are seeing diamonds, compare F-G-H colors. If you and your gf are happy with an H color you can get a MUCH larger diamond because there is a significant price epr carat shift at the G-H point. Also, since you want to shop in person, you might look at SI1 stones as well, again because there is a huge change in price per carat. If you can find an SI1 with periphery inclusions that will be covered by prongs then you would never see it.

Since it appears you are in New York, I would call up ID Jewelry www.idjewelryonline.com and see what they can do. Tell them you are a PSer and want to spend a large amount, make sure Yuketeil helps you personally! They seem to have access to amazing GIA stones for very good prices.

Good Old Gold is another option.

 

[ManhattanSpin]

Oh, I forgot to ask...what about fluorescence? Need I be considered about that?

 

[ChrisES]

At that size, you might consider expanding your clarity range to VS1-SI1. As Dreamer_D said, the right SI1 can save you a ton of money, but on other other hand, some people can see some inclusions in some VS2s up in the 2-3 carat range. (If you think of clarity grades as a percentage of the stone, bigger stones mean bigger inclusions.)

As for fluorescence, there's a lot of conflicting information about it on the internet. My understand is that the most common fluorescence is slight or medium blue, and neither one should affect a well-cut modern round brilliant beyond making it cheaper. If you're looking at strong fluorescence or one of the rarer colors, you might want to see the stone in person before committing to buying it. (Though in your price range I think that's a given, and most PS vendors are excellent about shipping stones out for inspection and/or accepting returns.)

 

[ManhattanSpin]

OK, great info.

Can you all tell the difference immediately between a 2.5ct and a 3ct stone? Her ring size is 6.5

 

[kindred]

Can you all tell the difference immediately between a 2.5ct and a 3ct stone? Her ring size is 6.5

Yes, a well cut 3 ct. will be noticeably larger.

I know the clarity and color may be a grade lower than your ideal, but I would call James Allen about the stone MissStepcut suggested below and ask if it is eye clean and ask for an Idealscope image. That could end up being a remarkably good deal.

How white is "white" to you? Here's a diamond with mostly twinning wisp inclusions (very hard to see with the naked eye) in H that's over a carat over your goal and on the low end of your budget:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1454393.asp

 

[ManhattanSpin]

I have asked about that stone. I was told it is indeed eye-clean. I have requested the idealscope image and will share that with you all when I get it. Does the price seem fair?

I don't want it to not look white though...a brilliant white sparkle is what I am after.

 

[Clairitek]

Just threw the proportions of that James Allen 3.5 carat into the HCA and it was a 3.7. From what I can gather here, people generally are recommended to look at 2 and below (to use the HCA as a weeding out tool).

Cert
http://www.jamesallen.com/grading_report.asp?pic=1454393

Table 57
Depth 62.2
Crown 36
Pav 40.8

HCA 3.7

Not sure if this has already been pointed out, but GOG is on Long Island, close enough for you to visit!

 

[alene]

Since JA is based in Manhattan, I'd schedule an appointment with them and see the stone (and perhaps some others) in person to see what's white enough for you.

 

[Clairitek]

Since JA is based in Manhattan, I'd schedule an appointment with them and see the stone (and perhaps some others) in person to see what's white enough for you.

For some reason I almost always think that JA is down in Baltimore or DC, not NYC. This is also a great suggestion. I bet you could make a lot of headway into finding what you need between going to JA, IDJ, and GOG- All in NY.

 

[ManhattanSpin]

I think you're right, best to just go there and look at all the stones in person.

I wish I would have known about the calculator before and saved myself the trouble of requesting the idealscope! I'll use that calculator from now on.

I am leaning towards getting a G or F color to be frank, but it would be nice to get 3 CT. I am assuming a 3 ct G VS2 ex/ex/ex is going to be around $65k...right? Probably worth it to have the perfect stone with no compromises.

 

[JLW05]

As was previously suggested, seeing the stones in person is very important. I am really a lurker but when IDJ was recommended, I felt comfortable advising you to check them out as well. I have bought several diamonds from them, although none of them in the price or size range you are looking to buy. Goes without saying that I have been very satisfied with my purchases. Just yesterday I ordered earring jackets from them after seeing photos of beautiful jackets on this forum that coincidentally were purchased from IDJ (thank you poster Celentani). IDJ didn't have the earring jackets I wanted in a size appropriate for my diamonds but they are making them up for me with no obligation on my part. I dealt with Yukutiel and he is very pleasant to work with and obviously as accomadating as he can possibly be.

Best of luck on your search.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I think you're right, best to just go there and look at all the stones in person.

I wish I would have known about the calculator before and saved myself the trouble of requesting the idealscope! I'll use that calculator from now on.

I am leaning towards getting a G or F color to be frank, but it would be nice to get 3 CT. I am assuming a 3 ct G VS2 ex/ex/ex is going to be around $65k...right? Probably worth it to have the perfect stone with no compromises.

my guess would be closer to $85K for a top cut...

 

[ManhattanSpin]

Everyone who gets a 3ct stone that is really white is sparkly is paying $85k?! I gotta up my game...

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I actually already posted you a very well cut 3 ct. G VS2 here:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1465073.asp

And I am sorry, I'll have to be in the minority here, but if I were fortunate enough to have a budget of $50-75k to spend on a diamond, it surely would be G or better and absolutely VS or better! I prefer VS1 over VS2 personally, but I wouldn't consider SI1 in that level of stone. I'd want a balance between excellent cut, color, clarity and size. And yes, I would far rather have an F or G VS 2.5-3.0 over a 3.5 H SI1.

The very best stone posted so far was this (very top cut, color, clarity):

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2681948.htm

 

[Amys Bling]

Everyone who gets a 3ct stone that is really white is sparkly is paying $85k?! I gotta up my game...

ideal cut- F 3ct... Yea.

 

[Clairitek]

Everyone who gets a 3ct stone that is really white is sparkly is paying $85k?! I gotta up my game...

Don't be hard on yourself!

I think you might be surprised about how white an ideal cut H colored stone will look. Cutting can really make a difference in color. If you drop your color to H.

I know you said you would rather not buy online but Brian Gavin is excellent. They have a return period where you can review the stone. From my own personal experience they have excellent customer service. They're bench-work is wonderful as well.

I found this 3.09 carat G VS1 for $71,412
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/3.090-g-vs1-round-diamond-gia-36226993

HCA Score is 1.5

Table 57
Depth 61.8
Crown 34
Pavilion 41

They also have a 3.0

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Everyone who gets a 3ct stone that is really white is sparkly is paying $85k?! I gotta up my game...

Don't be hard on yourself!

I think you might be surprised about how white an ideal cut H colored stone will look. Cutting can really make a difference in color. If you drop your color to H.

I know you said you would rather not buy online but Brian Gavin is excellent. They have a return period where you can review the stone. From my own personal experience they have excellent customer service. They're bench-work is wonderful as well.

I found this 3.09 carat G VS1 for $71,412
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/3.090-g-vs1-round-diamond-gia-36226993

HCA Score is 1.5

Table 57
Depth 61.8
Crown 34
Pavilion 41

They also have a 3.0

That is a virtual stone, not a stone BG has. Here it is on the James Allen site with a picture:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1459853.asp

It has strong blue fluorescence which I personally like, but he'd have to decide if he wanted that.

 

[Sparkle524]

I was one of the newbie Pricescopers looking for a 2.5+ RB. I'm located in Houston where White Flash is located and saw both the 2.5+ G VS2 (sold) and the 2.5+ E VS1 in person. Both diamonds were eye clean to me and very sparkly. I was actually thinking about purchasing the G VS2 but was holding out for an F VS1/VS2 which so far has been very hard to find. Well at least without fluorescence or inclusions like indented naturals and feathers. Also a 3+ carat F color VS1/VS2 will run you $90k to $100+k from at least what I've seen. I've had no luck so far but I hope you find "the one" soon.

I was looking at some of the diamonds that were suggested and a couple of them had indented naturals as an inclusion. Isn't an indented natural something that you don't want in a diamond? I thought I read somewhere that it is described as a cavity. Perhaps I misread. Can someone clarify?

 

[0-0-0]

I think you're right, best to just go there and look at all the stones in person.

I wish I would have known about the calculator before and saved myself the trouble of requesting the idealscope! I'll use that calculator from now on.

FYI ASET/IS images give a lot more information than the HCA. There are well cut stones outside of the HCA preferred range (although more rare) and IMO the JA stone is one of those. But ultimately nothing beats comparing stones in person.

 

[Gypsy]

Everyone who gets a 3ct stone that is really white is sparkly is paying $85k?! I gotta up my game...

ideal cut- F 3ct... Yea.

Only if you are talking about rounds.

You could get a lot more carats for you money (if that's important to you) if you went with a different shape diamond:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9230/ in a setting like this: http://artofplatinum.com/vault/classic-emerald-cut-engagement-ring or http://artofplatinum.com/vault/halo-style-engagement-rings

Gorgeous 3 carat cushion : http://www.engagementringsdirect.com/this-cut-beyond-cushion-brilliant-diamond-has-been-sold.-gid-55988.html

 

[Clairitek]

Everyone who gets a 3ct stone that is really white is sparkly is paying $85k?! I gotta up my game...

Don't be hard on yourself!

I think you might be surprised about how white an ideal cut H colored stone will look. Cutting can really make a difference in color. If you drop your color to H.

I know you said you would rather not buy online but Brian Gavin is excellent. They have a return period where you can review the stone. From my own personal experience they have excellent customer service. They're bench-work is wonderful as well.

I found this 3.09 carat G VS1 for $71,412
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/3.090-g-vs1-round-diamond-gia-36226993

HCA Score is 1.5

Table 57
Depth 61.8
Crown 34
Pavilion 41

They also have a 3.0

That is a virtual stone, not a stone BG has. Here it is on the James Allen site with a picture:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1459853.asp

It has strong blue fluorescence which I personally like, but he'd have to decide if he wanted that.

I saw that it wasnt a signature stone. I just like their vetting of the virtual stones. Takes care of some of the leg work and I think they're nice people to work with.

Nice work finding it in the virtual inventory.

 

[Amys Bling]

Everyone who gets a 3ct stone that is really white is sparkly is paying $85k?! I gotta up my game...

ideal cut- F 3ct... Yea.

Only if you are talking about rounds.

You could get a lot more carats for you money (if that's important to you) if you went with a different shape diamond:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9230/ in a setting like this: http://artofplatinum.com/vault/classic-emerald-cut-engagement-ring or http://artofplatinum.com/vault/halo-style-engagement-rings

Gorgeous 3 carat cushion : http://www.engagementringsdirect.com/this-cut-beyond-cushion-brilliant-diamond-has-been-sold.-gid-55988.html

I was assuming rounds

I actually adore stepcuts in the 2+ range more so than rounds- but I've been crushing on stepcuts ever since I found PS so that's just me

 

[ManhattanSpin]

I think she really wants a round, so I am set on that.

It seems like ideally what I want to find is an ex/ex/ex 3 ct, G/F color, VS1/2. Guess I am going to have to pay for it!

When we were in Cartier she tried on a 3ct that was VVS2, F and was like $120k I think...it's seeming less unreasonable the more I search.

 

[slksapphire]

ms,

i was in similar boat (10 yrs ago!) as they say in the wedding gown business, "everyone has a budget", no matter how big! so it comes down to priorities regarding the 4 c's. ours were:

1. cut (3x)
2. color E
3. clarity VS1
4. ct

10 years later, i still love my engagement ring. if i had to do it over again, i think color F would have been fine and maybe even G. clarity of VS2 might have been ok if the stone was eye clean and the inclusions were toward the edges.

i think you're reading the same conclusion on your own ... thought i'd just be a +1.