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What am I seeing in these gems?

It is gorgeous! I'm interested to see if the colors are as vibrant in person, because I've never seen one so clean!!
 
Odyssey44 said:
Ok, I also bought the second bicolor tourmaline I posted. This is the vendor photo.
Screenshot_20250605_235425_Chrome.jpg
It arrived and no matter what light, I could not recreate that vivid pink. The pink part did not brown out, it just always looked a kind of rusty-orangey color. Not at all what i was after. I am going to return this one and would not buy from this vendor again. The peridot vendor just got a bicolor in that seems vivid reddish pink, which is what I think I have to get for the pink part to actually look pink in regular indoor/outdoor conditions. So I will try again.
20250605_030447.jpg20250605_030705.jpg20250605_181834.jpg20250605_181640.jpg20250605_181850.jpg
Click to expand...

Beware of buying stones from oversea dealers using these white backgrounds. It makes the stone look more vivid than it is and hides colorless inclusions.

Also, tropical sunlight makes the gemstone look more vivid, especially warm and hot colors. Ask for LED or fluorescent light pictures or video, video is best. Ask for finger or tweezer videos. Just some ways to protect yourself from this happening.
 
Odyssey44 said:
I have had 3 purchases I have been very disappointed in. 2 are tourmalines with part/all pink. Pink tourmalines might be something that should be an in-person purchase because they are so difficult. I have a couple of vendors now that I like, who will also show me accurate indoor videos and that I think answer my questions truthfully.
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Afghan pink and red tourmaline does not hold their color well. I've had some nice bicolor watermelon Afghan tourmalines, but these are untreated. Most all medium to hot pinks and reds are treated with heat and/or irradiated from Afghanistan. Do not buy them. Buy African material when you can find it, but it will not be cheap.
 
fredflintstone said:
Afghan pink and red tourmaline does not hold their color well. I've had some nice bicolor watermelon Afghan tourmalines, but these are untreated. Most all medium to hot pinks and reds are treated with heat and/or irradiated from Afghanistan. Do not buy them. Buy African material when you can find it, but it will not be cheap.
Click to expand...

I have been looking for African pink tourmaline and having a heck of a time finding it. I'll keep looking. After what you said about Afghan pink tourmaline treatments I am pretty scared to buy it.
 
Odyssey44 said:
I have been looking for African pink tourmaline and having a heck of a time finding it. I'll keep looking. After what you said about Afghan pink tourmaline treatments I am pretty scared to buy it.
Click to expand...

The Rare Gemstone Company has various colors of African tourmaline. I purchased a couple sapphires from them and was very happy. They do have a refund policy also.

Tourmaline Gemstones | Buy Loose Tourmaline | Tourmaline For Sale

Explore our GIA Gemologist curated rare loose Tourmaline collection. If you are looking to buy a fine Natural Tourmaline gemstone we are based at the source.
www.theraregemstonecompany.com www.theraregemstonecompany.com
 
Soseattle said:
The Rare Gemstone Company has various colors of African tourmaline. I purchased a couple sapphires from them and was very happy. They do have a refund policy also.

Tourmaline Gemstones | Buy Loose Tourmaline | Tourmaline For Sale

Explore our GIA Gemologist curated rare loose Tourmaline collection. If you are looking to buy a fine Natural Tourmaline gemstone we are based at the source.
www.theraregemstonecompany.com www.theraregemstonecompany.com
Click to expand...

Thanks! I give them a look now and again, but they never seem to have much pink tourmaline over 5 cts. Right now there is only one piece and it is more orange than I am looking for. But do shout if you see anything else.
 
You know, I searched them for chrysoberyls but I'm not sure I checked their pink tourmaline. I'll look now. Thanks!
 
Ok, the bicolor watermelon tourmaline is here. And....I don't know. I could use some help evaluating it and deciding whether or not to return it or keep it. Autumn I know you have a wildly vivid one--does it stay pink everywhere? What type of light gives it the best color? I was disappointed on opening mine--even thought it was completely clean, the colors looked so dark and my LED lights were not helping. I was realy surprised because I asked the vendor for indoor lighting pictures. I wrote to him and he said his indoor pictures were under CFL lights. I changed one of my lamps to a CFL light and that helped immensely. The coloring under CFL was possibly even better than outside. Also, if not a true window, the bottom has a tilt window that shows up on the slightest movement. I know Autumn you said these cuts are hard to get without a window.
I do not know anymore what is reasonable for these types of bicolor tourmaline--is a nice vivid pink possible? Here are the pictures. Up first, LED lighting.
v64LXyj.jpg


fjbumx1.jpg


This is CFL light:
IIdkTDq.jpg


iUUwh2n.jpg


frFGnfk.jpg


Pictures Outside:

slQd5af.jpg




iJl9579.jpg
 
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In all honesty... that's not bad, not bad at all!

This is a very rudimentary explanation because it's been a while since I've read the science behind it and I've forgotten the majority of the details, but...

Every light source emits a spectrum of visible light. Daylight is balanced, it has it all, that's why we judge stones in daylight.

However, since we haven't yet managed to synthesise a miniature sun for home use, all man-made light sources have their specific spectrums, and the balance of visible light in them differs to that of daylight. Incandescent light, for example, emits a lot more light in the red spectrum compared to the blue one, which is why blue stones hate it but red stones love it. All other sources have their own specific balances which affects the way gems look when exposed to them.

Which leads us to LEDs. They're very popular and vary widely. You can have a cool LED, a warm LED, a cheap LED, an expensive LED, and so on. Among the expensive LEDs it is possible to find ones that are balanced to be as close to daylight as possible. Gems usually look much better in those.

This whole thing just to say, don't judge the stone by the LEDs in your home alone. Unless you've gone to the trouble to find high quality well balanced LEDs, the ones you already have are probably not optimal for viewing colours with accuracy, even though they're perfectly adequate for any regular home environment. Most people just don't consider that in their daily lives. An artist who paints at a studio probably will, but you an I, we screw whatever we find in the store on the bedroom light fixture and call it a day.
 
Odyssey44 said:
Finally, my video outside followed by vendor's video indoors.
https://imgur.com/4JuwglA

https://imgur.com/Tc1fVoc
Click to expand...

Ok, so... first of all, this is a really beautiful stone! As I've said before, I tend to only really care how gems look in natural light (I know others disagree, and I understand why). But artificial lighting is manmade, and I'm a purist. If you like the way it looks outside, I would be cool with it. Also, I don't think that's a true window... it looks like a tilt to me, and with this cut, it's almost impossible to avoid. Sit with him a bit and see how you feel!
 
I like how it looks in natural light. There is an earthy tone to the green that I find pleasing. And the pink is rich too. It looks like a vegetable!
 
Tough day today--trying to get sick I think so I immediately came home from work and fell asleep! Thank you to all who responded! I appreciate you all so very much!

Avondale said:
In all honesty... that's not bad, not bad at all!

This is a very rudimentary explanation because it's been a while since I've read the science behind it and I've forgotten the majority of the details, but...

Every light source emits a spectrum of visible light. Daylight is balanced, it has it all, that's why we judge stones in daylight.

However, since we haven't yet managed to synthesise a miniature sun for home use, all man-made light sources have their specific spectrums, and the balance of visible light in them differs to that of daylight. Incandescent light, for example, emits a lot more light in the red spectrum compared to the blue one, which is why blue stones hate it but red stones love it. All other sources have their own specific balances which affects the way gems look when exposed to them.

Which leads us to LEDs. They're very popular and vary widely. You can have a cool LED, a warm LED, a cheap LED, an expensive LED, and so on. Among the expensive LEDs it is possible to find ones that are balanced to be as close to daylight as possible. Gems usually look much better in those.

This whole thing just to say, don't judge the stone by the LEDs in your home alone. Unless you've gone to the trouble to find high quality well balanced LEDs, the ones you already have are probably not optimal for viewing colours with accuracy, even though they're perfectly adequate for any regular home environment. Most people just don't consider that in their daily lives. An artist who paints at a studio probably will, but you an I, we screw whatever we find in the store on the bedroom light fixture and call it a day.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the detailed explanation and vote of confidence Avondale! My LEDs in my living room, where I took the picture, are the kind of fancy programmable bulbs with 9 different varieties of light. I tend to keep them between sunlight and natural white. I dislike how the warm white settings have such a yellow cast, so do not use those. You are giving me the idea though that I should play around with the cool settings at least just to see what happens to the stone. I have been so surprised that CFL bulbs bring out the best color so far indoors. I thought I read somewhere CFL is the worst kind of indoor light for stones. Ok, no, that is not quite true. I am sure I read and can attest to the fact that incandescent is worst!

Autumn in New England said:
Ok, so... first of all, this is a really beautiful stone! As I've said before, I tend to only really care how gems look in natural light (I know others disagree, and I understand why). But artificial lighting is manmade, and I'm a purist. If you like the way it looks outside, I would be cool with it. Also, I don't think that's a true window... it looks like a tilt to me, and with this cut, it's almost impossible to avoid. Sit with him a bit and see how you feel!
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Thank you dear Autumn for setting my mind at ease!! I always appreciate your opinion. The clarity and transparency of the stone is really top notch. I would just love for a super vivid pink that stayed pretty pink everywhere--but I am slowly coming to the conclusion that is not realistic. It was hard to capture quite honestly, what lovely colors it turned in some positions. The less beautiful colors are always so easy to capture! This stone at its worst does not brown out and that is one thing I have learned I cannot live with. Laughing that you have decided this tourmaline is a he! Oh, another thing I think I am seeing--the pink part tend to look pinker when the green part is on top. Odd! But it seemed true every time!

Dreamer_D said:
I like how it looks in natural light. There is an earthy tone to the green that I find pleasing. And the pink is rich too. It looks like a vegetable!
Click to expand...
Thanks a bunch Dreamer! Your is also an opinion that makes me feel more confident in my choices. I wish I could show it in person, because the camera did not capture all of the vividness my eyes saw. I spent probably an hour and a half on its photo session. So we are well-acquainted now. :)
 
Odyssey44 said:
Tough day today--trying to get sick I think so I immediately came home from work and fell asleep! Thank you to all who responded! I appreciate you all so very much!


Thanks for the detailed explanation and vote of confidence Avondale! My LEDs in my living room, where I took the picture, are the kind of fancy programmable bulbs with 9 different varieties of light. I tend to keep them between sunlight and natural white. I dislike how the warm white settings have such a yellow cast, so do not use those. You are giving me the idea though that I should play around with the cool settings at least just to see what happens to the stone. I have been so surprised that CFL bulbs bring out the best color so far indoors. I thought I read somewhere CFL is the worst kind of indoor light for stones. Ok, no, that is not quite true. I am sure I read and can attest to the fact that incandescent is worst!


Thank you dear Autumn for setting my mind at ease!! I always appreciate your opinion. The clarity and transparency of the stone is really top notch. I would just love for a super vivid pink that stayed pretty pink everywhere--but I am slowly coming to the conclusion that is not realistic. It was hard to capture quite honestly, what lovely colors it turned in some positions. The less beautiful colors are always so easy to capture! This stone at its worst does not brown out and that is one thing I have learned I cannot live with. Laughing that you have decided this tourmaline is a he! Oh, another thing I think I am seeing--the pink part tend to look pinker when the green part is on top. Odd! But it seemed true every time!


Thanks a bunch Dreamer! Your is also an opinion that makes me feel more confident in my choices. I wish I could show it in person, because the camera did not capture all of the vividness my eyes saw. I spent probably an hour and a half on its photo session. So we are well-acquainted now. :)
Click to expand...

Think of it like this... watermelon, or bicolor, stones can include pink tourmaline or rubellite. The former will shift depending on the lighting, just like your typical pink tourm. The latter will hold its color under all lightings, just like fine rubellite. In order to get the vivid hot pink rubellite shades with the pure greens, you sort of have to compromise clarity a bit (at least, that's been my experience). For a perfectly clean stone, the color of this one looks great to me.
 
Autumn in New England said:
Think of it like this... watermelon, or bicolor, stones can include pink tourmaline or rubellite. The former will shift depending on the lighting, just like your typical pink tourm. The latter will hold its color under all lightings, just like fine rubellite. In order to get the vivid hot pink rubellite shades with the pure greens, you sort of have to compromise clarity a bit (at least, that's been my experience). For a perfectly clean stone, the color of this one looks great to me.
Click to expand...

You know, that makes perfect sense! I did not think how it could be rubellite or pink tourmaline! I have never seen clean rubellite. I think I will keep this one. It is so clean and transparent and if I want to look for a rubellite one somewhere down the road, I can. :bigsmile: Thanks Autumn! :mrgreen2:
 
Ok, next up, I have a rose zircon for your perusal and thoughts. Granted, I have not been outside with it yet, but given how sparkly my lime zircon is in any light, I thought I would still get some nice pictures. I am seeing what some people call extinction and also half and half extinction, but based on my research here is more properly called shadowing? Even at its brightest, this stone is never without dark areas. All I can say is that none of my other stones of any type do this, even longer rectangles. This is my first oval, but is a precision cut. What happened? I thought a precision cut oval would mean this shadowing would not appear. Looks like I am wrong. I have seen some ovals that do not have it. How? What is the difference between ovals that show this shadowing and ovals that do not? To my eye it really effects the sparkliness of the stone. Sorry these images are a bit dark, but the stone would brown out if it got too close to the light. Gosh is pink tough
https://imgur.com/mVUvcHA
https://imgur.com/a/2xsTOxY
https://imgur.com/a/CFuTEL3
https://imgur.com/a/LhqwPS9
https://imgur.com/1g9CFPV
https://imgur.com/a/xkETlCo
https://imgur.com/a/pqvzBdz
 
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Odyssey44 said:
I am seeing what some people call extinction and also half and half extinction, but based on my research here is more properly called shadowing?
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I personally call it extinction when it's black. If it's just a darkening of the colour, then it's shadowing. It's extremely common with elongated shapes, and it's not a matter of precision cut.

Odyssey44 said:
Even at its brightest, this stone is never without dark areas.
Click to expand...

This could be due to two things and you'll have to wait until daylight to see.

First possible reason is the indoor light. Daylight is always so much stronger and brighter. It's likely the stone will look much better in the morning.

Second possible reason is the nature of precision cuts - most of them are high contrast, which naturally leads to some very bright facet reflections, but also to some dark areas.

Wait to see it in daylight before you draw any conclusions. It looks pretty nice in the low light photos, and that's saying something.

Btw, links 4, 5 and 6 aren't working.
 
Try it in bright diffused lighting tomorrow and see how you feel.

“Pink” zircon is gonna “pink” zircon imo.

I have a very tortured hate relationship with “pink” zircon that I won’t get into. Basically this is the best mine will look:

IMG_1703.jpeg

Wretched thing! Mine is precision cut too and is absolutely foul.

Haha sorry for being so negative!!! “Pink” zircon is terrible stuff and because I gaslighted myself into liking it for a decade, I now diss it with much vigour!!!
 
I agree with @Avondale... I think a few things are contributing to the darkened areas. Yes, elongated shapes are more prone to them. Precision cut does not always equal maximum brilliance. How deep is the stone? If it's overly deep, that could be a factor. Another issue may be the lighting, as avondale said. I have a precision cut spinel (sort of a coral color) that closes up under direct sunlight. It happens. Another issue may be the tone. It appears to be a bit darker than ideal? I can't really tell because of the lighting though. I still think it's a very pretty stone... give it a good cleaning, because I see lots of schmutz.
 
mellowyellowgirl said:
Try it in bright diffused lighting tomorrow and see how you feel.

“Pink” zircon is gonna “pink” zircon imo.

I have a very tortured hate relationship with “pink” zircon that I won’t get into. Basically this is the best mine will look:

IMG_1703.jpeg

Wretched thing! Mine is precision cut too and is absolutely foul.

Haha sorry for being so negative!!! “Pink” zircon is terrible stuff and because I gaslighted myself into liking it for a decade, I now diss it with much vigour!!!
Click to expand...

I do think you got the tone just right though... super brilliant! I'm partial to radiant cuts anyway.
 
Had a family event today that lasted all day and then I promptly came home and fell asleep! So stay tuned and I will get that Zircon outside tomorrow.

Avondale said:
I personally call it extinction when it's black. If it's just a darkening of the colour, then it's shadowing. It's extremely common with elongated shapes, and it's not a matter of precision cut.



This could be due to two things and you'll have to wait until daylight to see.

First possible reason is the indoor light. Daylight is always so much stronger and brighter. It's likely the stone will look much better in the morning.

Second possible reason is the nature of precision cuts - most of them are high contrast, which naturally leads to some very bright facet reflections, but also to some dark areas.

Wait to see it in daylight before you draw any conclusions. It looks pretty nice in the low light photos, and that's saying something.

Btw, links 4, 5 and 6 aren't working.
Click to expand...
Thanks for telling me about the links--Imgr actually removed them as violating their terms of service. Say what?? I'll try again.

mellowyellowgirl said:
Try it in bright diffused lighting tomorrow and see how you feel.

“Pink” zircon is gonna “pink” zircon imo.

I have a very tortured hate relationship with “pink” zircon that I won’t get into. Basically this is the best mine will look:

IMG_1703.jpeg

Wretched thing! Mine is precision cut too and is absolutely foul.

Haha sorry for being so negative!!! “Pink” zircon is terrible stuff and because I gaslighted myself into liking it for a decade, I now diss it with much vigour!!!
Click to expand...
I like yours better than mine. Let's just say I may need you to move over at the "dislike pink zircon" table to make room for me! Looking that way at the moment.

Autumn in New England said:
I agree with @Avondale... I think a few things are contributing to the darkened areas. Yes, elongated shapes are more prone to them. Precision cut does not always equal maximum brilliance. How deep is the stone? If it's overly deep, that could be a factor. Another issue may be the lighting, as avondale said. I have a precision cut spinel (sort of a coral color) that closes up under direct sunlight. It happens. Another issue may be the tone. It appears to be a bit darker than ideal? I can't really tell because of the lighting though. I still think it's a very pretty stone... give it a good cleaning, because I see lots of schmutz.
Click to expand...

It does look to be darker than I thought it would be, Autumn, I agree, I feel like I see brown in it. Ugh. My stone is in the bedroom where DH is sleeping, so I will get back to you on its depth. The schmutz is from the paper towel I grabbed to wipe my constant finger prints off the stone. Next time I will get the cleaning cloth!
 
Ok, I think most of the links are working now except this one. It shows the half and half extension.
https://imgur.com/a/BGi8sWS
And the next is what happens in bright indoor light.
https://imgur.com/a/hee7Hxt
Sometimes the link embeds the picture, sometimes it does not, even after I go through every share link trying to get it to embed! Crazy!
 
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Odyssey44 said:
It does look to be darker than I thought it would be, Autumn, I agree, I feel like I see brown in it. Ugh. My stone is in the bedroom where DH is sleeping, so I will get back to you on its depth. The schmutz is from the paper towel I grabbed to wipe my constant finger prints off the stone. Next time I will get the cleaning cloth!
Click to expand...

Honey pink zircon is brown. That’s the lie they sell you! That it’s pink! It’s not freaking pink! It’s brown! Yours is actually less offensive than most!

See my Chansey thread for the ultimate gaslighting example that is pink zircon!
 
Odyssey44 said:
Super interesting. I will try to eyeball from now on to see that the pavilion is about 2/3 of overall depth.
I have seen some stones with a very flat looking crown, so maybe the pavilion is too deep. Other than not looking right, what kinds of flaws show up in the stone because of this?
Click to expand...

Sorry I wasn't clear, I didn't mean to judge if the depth was a ratio of the width, but to look at the stone face up. Is there a window? Does it display good brilliance? Does it have nice brightness? Is it appealing? Not to try to find a mathematical solution to if it's pretty or not.
 
Odyssey44 said:
Had a family event today that lasted all day and then I promptly came home and fell asleep! So stay tuned and I will get that Zircon outside tomorrow.


Thanks for telling me about the links--Imgr actually removed them as violating their terms of service. Say what?? I'll try again.


I like yours better than mine. Let's just say I may need you to move over at the "dislike pink zircon" table to make room for me! Looking that way at the moment.



It does look to be darker than I thought it would be, Autumn, I agree, I feel like I see brown in it. Ugh. My stone is in the bedroom where DH is sleeping, so I will get back to you on its depth. The schmutz is from the paper towel I grabbed to wipe my constant finger prints off the stone. Next time I will get the cleaning cloth!
Click to expand...

Pink zircon, in my experience, will always have some brown. That's the nature of it... sort of like an earthy rose tone. One of my favorite lip liners is "Spice" from MAC. It is described as "pink cinnamon stick." That's exactly how I think of pink zircon. lol I personally like it, but it just may not be what you're after, love.
 
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