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"Well-cut stones of lower colours face up colourless"

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Karl- if I am it''s only because I really started looking. I''ve had the chance to compare my own various color stones with friends,(I aslo do it every chance I get and at this point, they all think I''m crazy) and I''ve always made sure it was away from the sun or bright lights. I think without realizing it, I trained my eyes to see the subtle differences.
 
So ... one of those stones looks like a Princess cut. I don''t recall anyone ever claiming lower colors in "well cut" princess cuts face up as white as "D/E/F" color.

Princess cuts & Radiants show more color than Round Brilliants generally. I''d always advise people to see & judge color IN PERSON before ordering online. And to be more conservative about color when its a gift rather than a purchase for *oneself*. Because color sensitivities vary so wildly and because so many folks have ingrained prejudices about color.
 
There are several things that may be affecting what you see and how that jives with the information you''ve found.

It''s true that many PSers have commented that well-cut stones mask color, but that''s not the same thing as saying "a J will face up exactly like a D." I don''t think anyone on PS has suggested that, so if that''s how you''ve read some of the comments, I can see why you''re feeling a bit unsettled.

When you see people remarking that a well-cut stone in the near-colorless range will face up white, it typically is said in reference to a round stone. Fancies show body color differently, so a comment made about a round won''t necessarily hold true for other shapes. (If I''m not mistaken, one of the stones in your phots appears to be a princess cut, so the comparison would be skewed even if the photos were clear.)

Also, for those times when someone says "a J will face up white", you''ll also likely see added comments that note body tint can typically be seen from other angles. This is true because body color is more perceptible from the side view.

When people say the J will face up white, they are usually commenting on how the stone will appear once mounted and worn on the hand, which means it''s not sitting next to a stone of a higher color. Most folks would likely be able to appreciate the difference in body color between an F and a J, for example, if they are placed directly next to each other. However, when worn on the hand, most people find the J pleasing in color and appearing without perceptible body tint in most common viewing conditions.

I don''t think people''s enthusiasm for lower-colored stones is meant to ''oversell'' how great lower colors are; I think it''s merely meant to reassure people who haven''t seen a *well-cut* I or J stone in person that such a stone won''t appear perceptibly yellow, which is the pre-conceived notion several folks may have before they see with their own eyes.

A final note about photos, too: they are by no means an accurate way to judge color because the camera doesn''t perceive color the way our eyes do. Photos have a way of amplifying color differences that appear less perceptible in real life.

All of this said, there are still some people who are indeed more sensitive to color, and those folks shouldn''t feel they are ''wasting'' their resources to select something in the higher color range. There are many choices within the spectrum so people can choose according to what pleases their own eyes most.
 
Date: 10/11/2009 11:04:07 PM
Author: elle_chris
Karl- if I am it''s only because I really started looking. I''ve had the chance to compare my own various color stones with friends,(I aslo do it every chance I get and at this point, they all think I''m crazy) and I''ve always made sure it was away from the sun or bright lights. I think without realizing it, I trained my eyes to see the subtle differences.
I hear you, since I started posting on PS I have trained myself to see subtle differences in diamond cut.
When seeing a diamond that is always the first thing I look for, clues to how it is cut.
Which is one of the things that took me to where I am today in the diamond world.
 
Date: 10/11/2009 11:36:56 PM
Author: Allison D.
There are several things that may be affecting what you see and how that jives with the information you''ve found.

It''s true that many PSers have commented that well-cut stones mask color, but that''s not the same thing as saying ''a J will face up exactly like a D.'' I don''t think anyone on PS has suggested that, so if that''s how you''ve read some of the comments, I can see why you''re feeling a bit unsettled.

When you see people remarking that a well-cut stone in the near-colorless range will face up white, it typically is said in reference to a round stone. Fancies show body color differently, so a comment made about a round won''t necessarily hold true for other shapes. (If I''m not mistaken, one of the stones in your phots appears to be a princess cut, so the comparison would be skewed even if the photos were clear.)

Also, for those times when someone says ''a J will face up white'', you''ll also likely see added comments that note body tint can typically be seen from other angles. This is true because body color is more perceptible from the side view.

When people say the J will face up white, they are usually commenting on how the stone will appear once mounted and worn on the hand, which means it''s not sitting next to a stone of a higher color. Most folks would likely be able to appreciate the difference in body color between an F and a J, for example, if they are placed directly next to each other. However, when worn on the hand, most people find the J pleasing in color and appearing without perceptible body tint in most common viewing conditions.

I don''t think people''s enthusiasm for lower-colored stones is meant to ''oversell'' how great lower colors are; I think it''s merely meant to reassure people who haven''t seen a *well-cut* I or J stone in person that such a stone won''t appear perceptibly yellow, which is the pre-conceived notion several folks may have before they see with their own eyes.

A final note about photos, too: they are by no means an accurate way to judge color because the camera doesn''t perceive color the way our eyes do. Photos have a way of amplifying color differences that appear less perceptible in real life.

All of this said, there are still some people who are indeed more sensitive to color, and those folks shouldn''t feel they are ''wasting'' their resources to select something in the higher color range. There are many choices within the spectrum so people can choose according to what pleases their own eyes most.
Awesome post. +1....
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Date: 10/12/2009 12:27:09 AM
Author: Kaleigh

Date: 10/11/2009 11:36:56 PM
Author: Allison D.
There are several things that may be affecting what you see and how that jives with the information you''ve found.

It''s true that many PSers have commented that well-cut stones mask color, but that''s not the same thing as saying ''a J will face up exactly like a D.'' I don''t think anyone on PS has suggested that, so if that''s how you''ve read some of the comments, I can see why you''re feeling a bit unsettled.

When you see people remarking that a well-cut stone in the near-colorless range will face up white, it typically is said in reference to a round stone. Fancies show body color differently, so a comment made about a round won''t necessarily hold true for other shapes. (If I''m not mistaken, one of the stones in your phots appears to be a princess cut, so the comparison would be skewed even if the photos were clear.)

Also, for those times when someone says ''a J will face up white'', you''ll also likely see added comments that note body tint can typically be seen from other angles. This is true because body color is more perceptible from the side view.

When people say the J will face up white, they are usually commenting on how the stone will appear once mounted and worn on the hand, which means it''s not sitting next to a stone of a higher color. Most folks would likely be able to appreciate the difference in body color between an F and a J, for example, if they are placed directly next to each other. However, when worn on the hand, most people find the J pleasing in color and appearing without perceptible body tint in most common viewing conditions.

I don''t think people''s enthusiasm for lower-colored stones is meant to ''oversell'' how great lower colors are; I think it''s merely meant to reassure people who haven''t seen a *well-cut* I or J stone in person that such a stone won''t appear perceptibly yellow, which is the pre-conceived notion several folks may have before they see with their own eyes.

A final note about photos, too: they are by no means an accurate way to judge color because the camera doesn''t perceive color the way our eyes do. Photos have a way of amplifying color differences that appear less perceptible in real life.

All of this said, there are still some people who are indeed more sensitive to color, and those folks shouldn''t feel they are ''wasting'' their resources to select something in the higher color range. There are many choices within the spectrum so people can choose according to what pleases their own eyes most.
Awesome post. +1....
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Well said!
 
I find this post interesting as when I saw diamonds in a line I was able to tell the colour grades apart. Perhaps not a D from an E but certainly the D from the F, etc. When I looked at stones in the D-H range by themselves with no other stones to refer to I had almost no idea what their colour grades were and they all looked pretty white to me.

Sometimes I can see a hint of colour in my G stone but in most lighting conditions it is just reflecting so much back that it either looks stark white or the colour of clothing that I''m wearing
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. I image this is what PSers are referring to when they say a well just J can face up white. Of course the body colour is still a J but when white light is bombarding your eyes coming out from the stone the body colour can be masked?

I think it comes down to preference. At the end of the day to me having a diamond that was white to my standards, beautifully cut and the shape that I wanted was more important to me than size. These criteria actually forced me into a higher carat weight than I initially desired since GOG don''t cut tiny OMCs. In the end you need to buy a diamond that you are happy with.
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Date: 10/11/2009 3:33:25 PM
Author: FB.
Gleam

The impression that I get from reading these forums is that you can buy a well-cut J and expect it to look exactly the same as a well-cut D in any environment and that any money spent above H colour is an utter waste - and that even the sharpest eyes would struggle to see the difference when face-up.

I disagree.

This site seems heavily skewed towards lower colours - and maybe I'll get deleted for daring to go against the grain or being a 'trouble-maker' - but while lower colours may suit some people, I regard the sheer weight of information on lower colours as potentiallty misleading and I wanted to post a counter argument, putting forward a case for the better colour grades.

Hi FB, you're entitled to your opinion, but I think you overestimate how "skewed" people are in this forum towards lower color stones. It happens elsewhere too, and for good reason in my opinion. If you've ever been to, or see the catalog for, a Sotheby's or Christie's jewel auction, you will see many, many engagement rings that are almost all in the lower color grades. These are consigned by people who I imagine have ample funds to buy whatever kind of diamonds they want -- why go with a lower color grade?

I think the answer is simply because visually, an H stone has as much "BAM" as a D stone does *to the average viewer*, especially if the H stone is a larger one (as is most likely the case, since you get more for your money in the lower color grades).

I have a EGL USA rated I color, which may or not be accurate... it could be a J. I consider myself moderately color sensitive but that doesn't matter so much as long as I accept my stone for what it is. Nobody is trying to pass off their H or I or J stones as D stones. Know what I mean? People love their diamonds for what they are.
 
I don''t think anyone believes that a J will face up like a D. In fact, I don''t think a G faces up nearly as white as a D. I own a G and I recently bought a E. I looked at a few Ds. The color difference is obvious.
 
The reality is, unless you''re wearing a D and an I next to each other on your finger (highly unlikely), no one will be able to tell much about the color of the diamond you''re sporting.
 
... happens elsewhere too, and for good reason in my opinion. If you''ve ever been to, or see the catalog for, a Sotheby''s or Christie''s jewel auction, you will see many, many engagement rings that are almost all in the lower color grades. These are consigned by people who I imagine have ample funds to buy whatever kind of diamonds they want -- why go with a lower color grade?

I think the answer is simply because visually, an H stone has as much "BAM" as a D stone does *to the average viewer*, especially if the H stone is a larger one (as is most likely the case, since you get more for your money in the lower color grades).

Also, some of those estate rings with large diamonds were worn primarily for evening black tie events that are held in dim lighting. The same person may have been wearing a 1.5ct or 2ct D, E, or F IF or VVS in broad daylight but a well cut J or K or M or a black inclusion I1 was perfectly acceptable for a dinner or cocktail ring.
 
I am glad that I stimulated the good quantity and quality of replies.
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I agree that larger stones are more impressive.

I also agree that if you own a near-colourless stone but have never owned a D, then you will perceive your stone as white.

But one day, two women will compare rings with their "ideal" cut stones that cost about the same amount. One will have a 0.75ct D/SI1 (6mm) and the other a 1.0ct J/SI1 (6.5mm). I choose SI1 as the lowest grade of "eye clean".

So, which would be better or worse?

1.
Seeing how tinted a J can be when compared to a D.

2.
Not attaining the 1ct mark for the D.
 
Why not split the difference and get a high G near F eyeclean SI1 or SI2? hehe

Any time I've recently seen somebody post "Whaddaya think of this J" or I or K or whatever, there have been people say "most people start noticing tint at I, especially in a princess, step cut, fancy shape. etc". Or don't go below H for an e-ring unless you know the gal likes warmer diamonds. I don't think anyone's claiming it's as white as a colorless. They say it's white enough for me, or it isn't, and YMMV. On my first diamond, I'd have picked size and clarity over color, because size counted. And some tints are beautiful in their own right, so that you don't feel like you've made any compromise. Seeing color in diamonds may be a natural for some, or it may be an acquired skill for others, and some people really may not distinguish subtle differences of off-white. And as some stated, the warmer diamonds look better against their skin, the way some brides may choose ivory or blush pink over a bright white wedding gown.
 
Date: 10/12/2009 1:00:42 PM
Author: FB.

So, which would be better or worse?


1.

Seeing how tinted a J can be when compared to a D.


2.

Not attaining the 1ct mark for the D.

Let's assume a 0.5 carat D color diamond is accurately priced at $5,000 and a 1 carat J is accurately priced $5,000. Neither stone is "better" than the other because their VALUE is exactly the same. They are worth exactly the same, there is no better or worse, there is only a preference.

I have a 2.5 carat I (EGL USA) stone, and it suits me. I know others would rather have a 1 carat stone of a higher color grade, and that's fine... there's no right or wrong when it comes to personal items like diamonds. The only diamonds I really frown upon are the ones that look like frozen spit.
 
Gleam,

I tried to use same-value stones for my comparison. The 0.5ct D would be much cheaper than a 1ct J of the same clarity grade.

I'm seeing ideal-cut 0.75ct D/SI1 for about the same as 1.0ct J/SI1 - which is why I used the comparision.

A 0.5ct D/SI1 would be worth about the same as a 0.7ct J/SI1.
 
There are people who will not be able to see the difference between a J, and a D color- especially if it''s set.
Some people have more sensitivity to color- and some people are totally color blind.
Color blind people may be in the minority, but a larger percentage of people have limited sensitivity to small differences in shade.
Someone here in this thread mentioned how dangerous "assuming" can be.

I can''t tell you how many times someone has called up and told us how a jeweler told them "You don''t want a J color, that''s junk".
In many of these cases, the person ends up buying a J-K or even L color and is really happy.
They may not see the slight tint, but can easily see the size difference.

No question there are people who can even see the difference between a D and an E if both stones are set.
But I believe it''s a mistake to assume everyone will notice, or be bothered by the difference between an D and a J.

This is similar to the way "cut" is somehow described where readers can get the impression one stone is "clearly" cut better than another, yet in person, some may choose the "lesser" cut.
Some people, if given a strictly visual choice, will select a J over a D- simply because it pleases their eye more.
 
Great thread, FB. And a lot of good responses, too.

elle, I hear what you're saying -- I, too, can tell differences in color, but only in certain lights and at certain angles.

I was at the Meet the Cutter event in Chicago last week, and John Pollard was showing us a number of loose Infinity stones (yeah, it was as wonderful as it sounds!). They were all different sizes, colors and clarities. Under the bright lights of the jewelry store, I could not tell a difference in color (though my friend could. The store lighting "confused" my eyes.

I am sure under "normal" lighting conditions (diffused daylight) I could see the color difference between a D and a J, even face up, if they were next to each other. But if I was just seeing a J by itself, and it was a well-cut stone that was in a setting, not loose, it would be much harder to say "oh, yes, that's a J" without other stones to compare it too. I would probably know it's not a D, but that's because D's are pretty rare and really, really white to my eye -- and that's the key phrase, "to my eye." Everyone's eyes are different.

I lived with an AGS0 D for a few weeks before I sent it back. The color was really, really white -- icy white -- white dot white -- even on a cloudy day or in a dimly lit room! It was too white for me; I didn't like the color next to my skin.

Then I owned a J for a few weeks, my first Infinity. I could definitely see a warmth to it in some lights (as Elle said, the first time you see it, you remember it). But face up and in most lighting conditions, it was white -- not tinted, but not ice white like the D.

I upgraded my J to an M Infinity, which at 1.00 is double the size of the .45 D and .53 J I owned before. I love it, but as elle said, you have to know what you want (in terms of preferences), and you have to have seen/lived with a few diamonds to appreciate the distinct beauty of each color in the grading system.

I am having my M set to enhance its "M-ness." But I am older, and this is not an engagement ring, it's an anniversary present. I would not recommend lower than the "safe" colors, G or H, for someone's first diamond without asking how color sensitive they are (which is what most PS'ers do when they recommend stones to newbies). But, heck, I think even Tiffany's carries down to an I in color.

I think all of the diamond "colors" are lovely -- in well-cut stones, that is. And I think the color "bias" you speak of FB, is simply a result of the increased availability (through some brave PS vendors, like Wink of HPD, Jonathan of GOG, BGD, and WF) of well-cut diamonds in the "lower" colors. It does increase the options for consumers looking for well-cut stones. And it does offer a significant price savings for the consumer who wants the biggest carat size possible on a tight budget.
 
I have an F color stone, I color stones, and a J color stone. The F and I don''t look that much different to me, although from the side the I has a slight tint. My J stone, on the other hand, has a definite tint, both face up and from the side. Don''t get me wrong, the J is still a beautiful stone, and I wear it more often than my F, but the tint is there. When I upgrade the J, I will most likely go back to an I stone. I found that my sensitivity to color starts at J. Everyone is different, so people should go look at different color grades in a store to see what is the lowest color they can detect or tolerate in their jewelry.
 
Depending on the goals of the cutter and the type of color range the diamond is to begin with, a "well cut" diamond may face-up more or less colorful. The cutter has skil and a large bag of optical tricks whioch can enhance color visibility, or decrease color visibility. One wishes to enhance the visibility of color with many fancy color diamonds and to minimize color visibility with most near colorless diamonds. In the middle range, such as LMNOPQ the cutter can give more light return proviiding more brightness in a well lit room which some may see as mitigating the visibiity of the body color. The cutter can also choose to decrease light return to give the stone more of a watery, window effect, which might sometimes be seen as lessening vibile color, too. Cutting fancy shapes to specific angles can make a color intensity zone appear or disappear. It all depends on what the cutter wants to have happen and what the market dictates for the best saleability of the stone.

In some sense, "well cut" means "easiest to sell". In the Pricescope context we generally mean some measure of light return and craftsmanship. Well cut as a term means different things to different people. The cutter''s skill can give a wide range of variation to the visible mnature of the body color in "well cut" and not so well cut diamonds.
 
Date: 10/12/2009 1:38:14 PM
Author: FB.
Gleam,


I tried to use same-value stones for my comparison. The 0.5ct D would be much cheaper than a 1ct J of the same clarity grade.


I''m seeing ideal-cut 0.75ct D/SI1 for about the same as 1.0ct J/SI1 - which is why I used the comparision.


A 0.5ct D/SI1 would be worth about the same as a 0.7ct J/SI1.

Okay, either way, that doesn''t change my point... that if both stones have the same value, in dollar terms (in this case, $5,000), there is nothing that makes one stone "better" than another. One stone may be preferable, but that''s a matter of opinion, not fact.

You seem really eager to pin down some hard-and-true fact about which stone is "better" (a term you keep using yourself). I''m not trying to be argumentative, and I think this is actually a great thread with a lot of interesting points. But I don''t think you''ll find anyone who will tell you that the D stone is definitively better, because it''s not.
 
Gleam

I agree - making a decision between a 0.75ct D SI1 and a 1.0ct J SI1 is tough one. That''s probably why they''re about the same cost. I can see why people might go either way.

If I were setting in white gold or platinum, I''d choose the D. I might consider going as low as F.
If setting in yellow gold, I''d choose the J.
I wouldn''t dare to put a lower colour such as I-J in a white gold/plat ring, although maybe OK in a pendant that could only be viewed from directly in front.
I wouldn''t "waste" an expensive, high colour, D-F in yellow gold.

As I said earlier in the thread; I can see my next purchase being a J colour. I expect that in the future I will buy a variety of colours within the D-J range. The tinted K and lower colours in good cut grades and good clarity are harder to find here in the UK, so that might limit my ability to get one - although I would certainly try, given half a chance.
 
Date: 10/12/2009 3:37:10 PM
Author: Gleam

Date: 10/12/2009 1:38:14 PM
Author: FB.
Gleam,


I tried to use same-value stones for my comparison. The 0.5ct D would be much cheaper than a 1ct J of the same clarity grade.


I''m seeing ideal-cut 0.75ct D/SI1 for about the same as 1.0ct J/SI1 - which is why I used the comparision.


A 0.5ct D/SI1 would be worth about the same as a 0.7ct J/SI1.

Okay, either way, that doesn''t change my point... that if both stones have the same value, in dollar terms (in this case, $5,000), there is nothing that makes one stone ''better'' than another. One stone may be preferable, but that''s a matter of opinion, not fact.

You seem really eager to pin down some hard-and-true fact about which stone is ''better'' (a term you keep using yourself). I''m not trying to be argumentative, and I think this is actually a great thread with a lot of interesting points. But I don''t think you''ll find anyone who will tell you that the D stone is definitively better, because it''s not.
This is such a great point!
There are so many conversations- both here on PS and in jewelry stores, where a person''s preference gets translated into " this is a "better" stone.

Why is a "D" better than an I?

That''s taking an opinion and presenting it as a fact.

Decodelighted had a great point- it makes all the sense in the world to look at real stones in person to decide what you love.
 
Date: 10/12/2009 4:19:56 PM
Author: FB.
Gleam

I agree - making a decision between a 0.75ct D SI1 and a 1.0ct J SI1 is tough one. That''s probably why they''re about the same cost. I can see why people might go either way.

If I were setting in white gold or platinum, I''d choose the D. I might consider going as low as F.
If setting in yellow gold, I''d choose the J.
I wouldn''t dare to put a lower colour such as I-J in a white gold/plat ring, although maybe OK in a pendant that could only be viewed from directly in front.
I wouldn''t ''waste'' an expensive, high colour, D-F in yellow gold.

As I said earlier in the thread; I can see my next purchase being a J colour. I expect that in the future I will buy a variety of colours within the D-J range. The tinted K and lower colours in good cut grades and good clarity are harder to find here in the UK, so that might limit my ability to get one - although I would certainly try, given half a chance.
FB. - In the interests of preserving diplomacy, I''m going to say that I think you would do well to choose your words more carefully. You''re insulting a lot of people''s informed choices with these statements.

"To each his own" has excellent application here. Some people (me, for example) are very comfortable with I, J, and K in platinum, in rings, because they like the colour, or because they can''t see the colour and simply don''t mind if others can. Other people want colourless diamonds and find that yellow gold enhances their beauty.

You are, of course, free to make your own choices, as is anyone reading this thread, but disparaging those of others won''t do much to prove your point (though I''ll also say that I''m not quite sure what that is at this point, given that I''ve never read a post that point-blank claims that a J and a D, or even a G and a D look the same face up or otherwise, without the author making it VERY clear that this is purely opinion, and the questioner should find out for himself/herself).

JMHO.
 
Date: 10/12/2009 4:19:56 PM
Author: FB.
Gleam


I agree - making a decision between a 0.75ct D SI1 and a 1.0ct J SI1 is tough one. That's probably why they're about the same cost. I can see why people might go either way.


If I were setting in white gold or platinum, I'd choose the D. I might consider going as low as F.

If setting in yellow gold, I'd choose the J.

I wouldn't dare to put a lower colour such as I-J in a white gold/plat ring, although maybe OK in a pendant that could only be viewed from directly in front.

I wouldn't 'waste' an expensive, high colour, D-F in yellow gold.


As I said earlier in the thread; I can see my next purchase being a J colour. I expect that in the future I will buy a variety of colours within the D-J range. The tinted K and lower colours in good cut grades and good clarity are harder to find here in the UK, so that might limit my ability to get one - although I would certainly try, given half a chance.
On of the most beautiful pendants I have ever saw was icy white D diamonds set in rich 22K yellow gold.
The contrast was striking.
It all comes down to what different people prefer.
There is no right answer.
Personally silver, 14k x1 WG, 14kYG, 18k Deep YG, 22-24k YG are my favorites no matter what the diamond color.
 
Date: 10/12/2009 6:03:16 PM
Author: yssie

Date: 10/12/2009 4:19:56 PM
Author: FB.
Gleam

I agree - making a decision between a 0.75ct D SI1 and a 1.0ct J SI1 is tough one. That''s probably why they''re about the same cost. I can see why people might go either way.

If I were setting in white gold or platinum, I''d choose the D. I might consider going as low as F.
If setting in yellow gold, I''d choose the J.
I wouldn''t dare to put a lower colour such as I-J in a white gold/plat ring, although maybe OK in a pendant that could only be viewed from directly in front.
I wouldn''t ''waste'' an expensive, high colour, D-F in yellow gold.

As I said earlier in the thread; I can see my next purchase being a J colour. I expect that in the future I will buy a variety of colours within the D-J range. The tinted K and lower colours in good cut grades and good clarity are harder to find here in the UK, so that might limit my ability to get one - although I would certainly try, given half a chance.
FB. - In the interests of preserving diplomacy, I''m going to say that I think you would do well to choose your words more carefully. You''re insulting a lot of people''s informed choices with these statements.

''To each his own'' has excellent application here. Some people (me, for example) are very comfortable with I, J, and K in platinum, in rings, because they like the colour, or because they can''t see the colour and simply don''t mind if others can. Other people want colourless diamonds and find that yellow gold enhances their beauty.

You are, of course, free to make your own choices, as is anyone reading this thread, but disparaging those of others won''t do much to prove your point (though I''ll also say that I''m not quite sure what that is at this point, given that I''ve never read a post that point-blank claims that a J and a D, or even a G and a D look the same face up or otherwise, without the author making it VERY clear that this is purely opinion, and the questioner should find out for himself/herself).

JMHO.
I''m going to have to respond to that highlighted part, too. My original e-ring is a 1 ct. F color diamond set in a yellow gold solitaire . The yellow gold makes the F stone stand out and look as white as can be!!! In fact, I think the whiteness is MORE apparent being set in yg!

For my new anniversary e-ring, I set a 1.63 ct. H VS1 (actually tested as low G color) stone in platinum. It is not quite as white as my F stone, but it still looks white in almost all lighting. And it is certainly PLENTY white for platinum! My earrings are H VS2, and on my ears, they are like bright white disco balls! I am sure I could go to I color, but I just prefer to not see color from the sides.

I do agree that there seems to be a push toward lower colors and clarity on here. I prefer higher color and clarity than most, and I usually recommend G-H color and VS2 clarity for e-rings unless the girl has specifically seen and requested a lower color. People such as family and close friends will ask about color and clarity even though they may know nothing about cut.
 
yssie

If I am insulting many people''s informed choices, then perhaps they are insulting mine, with their ?? opinions?
I belong to a couple of other forums/chat groups unrelated to diamonds and there are people who will fight to the death if you dare to say a word against their beloved choice. They have become so fixated and blinkered - often supported by "old wives tales" and the like - that they refuse to contemplate anything else and they try to impose their will on all others on the forum and will drive away anyone who doesn''t follow their lead.

The whole point of this thread was to try to restore some balance because I think that this forum is heavily biased towards the tinted colours - and towards promoting them as being barely distinguishable from the colourless stones. That''s fine for lovers of warmer stones, but there will be others who genuinely want their stone to appear white and will be misled.
Like I said; I have stones of many colours and a J is near the top of the wish-list. I have nothing against any colour.

But if I was to put myself into the shoes of a newcomer searching for a stone.........
from reading and searching the forum''s archives, the weight of opinion would say that getting a super-ideal-cut, near-colourless stone would be indistinguishable from a colourless stone.
As a result, I think that if I was a newcomer, I would be swayed towards H-I colour for platinum......and I would be shocked by just how yellow they can look in some situations - especially when compared to D stones.
My main grumble is that the tints visible in near-colourless and lower stones feel as if they''re being downplayed considerably - and that the information available on here is only showing the very best shots of warmer stones, while hiding their sometimes shocking yellow appearance.

Let me put some of the forum''s J''s beside a D in my choice of everyday light conditions and I can make them look awful.
14.gif

Equally, I could put the J''s beside a D into other lighting situations and you''d struggle to see the difference.
9.gif


I may not be popular here, but I want to see facts, truth, honesty, unbiased and balanced information - and I don''t care who''s toes I step on in the process. I expect that one day, I will get deleted for it.
11.gif
 
Date: 10/12/2009 6:48:48 PM
Author: FB.
yssie

If I am insulting many people's informed choices, then perhaps they are insulting mine, with their ?<biased>? opinions?
I belong to a couple of other forums/chat groups unrelated to diamonds and there are people who will fight to the death if you dare to say a word against their beloved choice. They have become so fixated and blinkered - often supported by 'old wives tales' and the like - that they refuse to contemplate anything else and they try to impose their will on all others on the forum and will drive away anyone who doesn't follow their lead.

The whole point of this thread was to try to restore some balance because I think that this forum is heavily biased towards the tinted colours - and towards promoting them as being barely distinguishable from the colourless stones. That's fine for lovers of warmer stones, but there will be others who genuinely want their stone to appear white and will be misled.
Like I said; I have stones of many colours and a J is near the top of the wish-list. I have nothing against any colour.

But if I was to put myself into the shoes of a newcomer searching for a stone.........
from reading and searching the forum's archives, the weight of opinion would say that getting a super-ideal-cut, near-colourless stone would be indistinguishable from a colourless stone.
As a result, I think that if I was a newcomer, I would be swayed towards H-I colour for platinum......and I would be shocked by just how yellow they can look in some situations - especially when compared to D stones.
My main grumble is that the tints visible in near-colourless and lower stones feel as if they're being downplayed considerably - and that the information available on here is only showing the very best shots of warmer stones, while hiding their sometimes shocking yellow appearance.

Let me put some of the forum's J's beside a D in my choice of everyday light conditions and I can make them look awful.
14.gif

Equally, I could put the J's beside a D into other lighting situations and you'd struggle to see the difference.
9.gif


I may not be popular here, but I want to see facts, truth, honesty, unbiased and balanced information - and I don't care who's toes I step on in the process. I expect that one day, I will get deleted for it.
11.gif
Do you not see the incongruity in these side-by-side statements?

I think your first post had a valid point - that the colours are NOT the same. This, however, is biased, insulting, and unhelpful to the very learners this thread is geared toward.

I have nothing more to contribute that's positive, so I'll leave this thread be.

ETA: re. "My main grumble is that the tints visible in near-colourless and lower stones feel as if they're being downplayed considerably - and that the information available on here is only showing the very best shots of warmer stones, while hiding their sometimes shocking yellow appearance."
-yes, pictures can be very misleading, which is why the people who take and post these shots invariably say that newcomers should go to a local store to find out with their own eyes what their tolerances are, and stick to them - whether that be F or K, VVS or I.
 
diamondseeker

Everyone has their own preferences.
Most of the diamond-buying public will have been pre-programmed to believe that yellow is bad. Whether right or wrong, that''s the way it is.
Advising these people that near-colourless is fine, might leave them disappointed, based on their expectations.

There''s also the consideration of the size of the stone. As the size increases, so does the likelihood of seeing some colour.
Side stones, being smaller, can often be a colour grade (or two) lower than the main stone and still look the same.
 
yssie

Quote:
I think your first post had a valid point - that the colours are NOT the same. This, however, is biased, insulting, and unhelpful to the very learners this thread is geared toward.

Then the "learners" can see what you, me and many others have written and draw their own conclusions based on a large number of comments.
2.gif

But, like many others, you have ackowledged that the colour grades do not look the same. That is the "balance" that I wanted to achieve.

I see many J's that are over-sold by fantastic camera shots. I could also under-sell a J by some equally fantastic shots of how yellow they can look.
Perhaps I should have said: "I could make the J's look a lot more yellow than you'd ever thought they could - and yellow enough to shock you". But sometimes a slightly provocative statement brings out a lot of truth.

Like I said; I just want people to "tell it like it is".

...and remember that I have said that I have a couple of J's near the top of my shopping list, if they don't sell by the time I have saved up.

1.gif
 
To many people, in many lights, D-F diamonds look whiter face up than I and lower.

That''s a fact we can all agree on.

Whether D-F diamonds look BETTER is not a fact. It''s an opinion. FB thinks they do. Some people will agree with FB. Some will disagree.

Stating an opinion is not an insult to people who hold other opinions (although there are more and less tactful ways of stating opinions).

It''s good to hear lots of different opinions. The fights tend to start when people can''t accept that other people may have other opinions.
 
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