VVS and J Color is the best way to go

[carina]

I''m a rebel against the SI recommendation. In your mind you need to know your diamond is very clean. It''s so nice to know that there are flaws in your diamond that can''t be seen with 10x mag. You need 30x mag to see my flaws and that is such a good feeling.

 

[Patty]

To each his own, Carina.

Some people love the peace of mind knowing that their diamond is "flawless."

Some people love knowing they have the top color.

For the most part, it''s all psychological.

Only YOU know what you can live with and what makes you happy.

 

[FireGoddess]

This is a prime example of why "mind clean" is very different from "eye clean." Everyone's mind is different, and while you may prefer a VVS stone that has very minimal inclusions, some color sensitive people might see your stone and think "no way would I ever get a J colored diamond." It's all personal preference! You need to do what makes you happy, and if knowing there are very little/few inclusions in your diamond only visible at 30X is important to you, then that's your mind clean stone, and congrats to you for finding it! But the best way to go for you may not be the best way to go for someone else...

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 5/8/2005 12:41:31 PM
Author:carina
I''m a rebel against the SI recommendation. In your mind you need to know your diamond is very clean. It''s so nice to know that there are flaws in your diamond that can''t be seen with 10x mag. You need 30x mag to see my flaws and that is such a good feeling.

Well, variety is what makes the world go around.

I like knowing that I can identify my diamond under a loupe. For me, it''s a good feeling to know I saved a ton of money without sacrificing a thing in "real-world" viewing conditions.

To each his own.

 

[Dancing Fire]

even if i had Patty''s money ,i would be very happy with a G VS1.my favorite combo is H VS2 or H SI1.

 

[MiniMouse]

I agree, each one to their own, however, I''m happy if a stone is eye clean, after all who goes round with a magnifying glass anyway? I''d prefer to use the extra money for other stuff. Originally we were thinking of VVS, then came down to VS and now we''re going to consider SI even though we can afford higher clarity. Why pay it if you don''t need to? However, if you prefer ''mind clean'' then there''s nothing wrong with that. You delight in knowing your diamond is flawless to the eye and x10, but I am going to delight in knowing my diamond is eye clean and I saved a whole heap of money as well. I get a lot of satisfaction from that... and even greater satisfaction in knowing that the money saved can perhaps go towards another diamond purchase later

You''re happy, I''m happy, so that''s what counts.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I once knew a girl who got a tiny little bit pregnant - she had a baby after 9 months.

If you want a mind clean diamond if must be Flawless.

if you have a diamond that is SI and you can not see the inclusions - it is no different to a vVS diamond.

If you have a colorless diamond - to most people in under 2ct it can be anywhere from D to G. A J is off to every one who knows anything about diamonds (+10 year old girls - it is genetic pre conditioning)

J is not mind clean - it is filty dirty and no amount of scrubbing can clean it.

But most people want what ever they have been preconditioned to want- you must have been guided to ''know'' what you want?

 

[Patty]

Date: 5/9/2005 2:59:23 AM
Author: Dancing Fire
even if i had Patty''s money ,i would be very happy with a G VS1.my favorite combo is H VS2 or H SI1.

If you had my money you''d be poor.

 

[pearcrazy]

What will be more noticeable to more people will be the J color. The difference between SI1 and VVS will be noticeable to no one but you armed with a good loupe. I personally would prefer the higher color, but like the others said: To each his own! It''s your diamond after all and it needs to be "mind clean".

 

[cflutist]

Date: 5/9/2005 6:19:40 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
If you have a colorless diamond - to most people in under 2ct it can be anywhere from D to G. A J is off to every one who knows anything about diamonds (+10 year old girls - it is genetic pre conditioning)

J is not mind clean - it is filty dirty and no amount of scrubbing can clean it.

But most people want what ever they have been preconditioned to want- you must have been guided to ''know'' what you want?

Garry, are you saying that all of those "J" lovers out there (and there are multiple threads about them) are fooling themselves and us about how "white" their diamonds are?

 

[moremoremore]

I just don''t know how a J can look white to the eyes... NOT that that is a bad thing...it''s just a matter of what amount of color someone is comfortable with...and the benefit to the J is being able to get a nice big and juicy sized stone. I wish I could go with the J but I''m obsessive compulsive and that amount of color would bother me...but I do love BIG rocks and would love to be able to do a giant J!!!

 

[jellybean]

As everyone has echoed -- to each his own.

I NEVER thought I would buy a J. I have two H''s and swore my next one would be at least a G. I bought the J and was totally shocked by how white it is. Now when I put it next to the H, I do see some difference, however, my J is ideal cut (where the H is not) and it gives off a ton of fire, so that could be what I''m seeing too. When I look at the J from the side I do notice some warmth, more like an off-white.

But you know what -- I love it!

Carina -- it''s fine that you''re a rebel again the SI1 recommendation. I love my SI1!

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Date: 5/9/2005 6:19:40 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
I once knew a girl who got a tiny little bit pregnant - she had a baby after 9 months.

If you want a mind clean diamond if must be Flawless.

if you have a diamond that is SI and you can not see the inclusions - it is no different to a vVS diamond.

If you have a colorless diamond - to most people in under 2ct it can be anywhere from D to G. A J is off to every one who knows anything about diamonds (+10 year old girls - it is genetic pre conditioning)

J is not mind clean - it is filty dirty and no amount of scrubbing can clean it.

But most people want what ever they have been preconditioned to want- you must have been guided to ''know'' what you want?

Now, Garry, you should not say this.

To start, it is disrespectful to all who have bought or are considering a J-colour or lower.
Also, colour has nothing to do with dirt, and it is incorrect to describe a tint of colour in this way.

Finally, it is a matter of taste whether one dislikes a certain tint of colour, or prefers it. You should not condemn this.

You really disappoint me with this reply,

 

[Boston Diamond Guy]

As most here have stated, the matter is very much subjective... very psychological on the part of the buyer. But to be honest, I think putting money into VVS stones when your budget is limited and requires you to compensate by going I J or K in color is a tough call. That’s a lot of yellow to trade for a “title” when there are plenty of VS’s out there that face up VVS. But again, as long as you have a solid and honest source to buy from, you can afford to go subjective with your purchase. Value is value

 

[Boston Diamond Guy]

Exactly!! the impurities in that stone to make it a "non IF"??? What would you call the substances that make it yellow??

 

[valeria101]

Date: 5/8/2005 12:41:31 PM
Author:carina
I'm a rebel against the SI recommendation. In your mind you need to know your diamond is very clean. It's so nice to know that there are flaws in your diamond that can't be seen with 10x mag. You need 30x mag to see my flaws and that is such a good feeling.

"your mind" and "you need" and "good feeling" are all nice personal choices. An no, J and D color are not the same in larger rocks. Why don't you need "colorless" to feel good as well

Oh well... IMO there's room for personal choices and tastes here. Why the need to rebel ?

If I am not mistaking, Mary Alaina has a K/IF pear. As long as every color & clarity combo exists, someone can choose it and aparently "to each his own" holds beautifully.

 

[cflutist]

Date: 5/9/2005 11:39:40 AM
Author: Boston Diamond Guy
What would you call the substances that make it yellow??

Nitrogen

 

[Kaleigh]

Will a nicely cut J show as much color as one that isn''t cut as well??

 

[Patty]

Date: 5/9/2005 11:50:11 AM
Author: kaleigh
Will a nicely cut J show as much color as one that isn''t cut as well??

Nope, a nicely cut J will show up more white than a poorly cut one. All you will notice is the sparkle...mostly.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 5/9/2005 11:50:11 AM
Author: kaleigh
Will a nicely cut J show as much color as one that isn''t cut as well??

Depends on the lighting.
It is less noticable under some conditions but doesnt help under others and from the side.

 

[codex57]

Whatever floats your boat. You can''t really rationalize or say any diamond is a value purchase since it''s a pure luxury item. So, get whatever combo you feel is worth more to you.

I''m waiting to hear someone say they prefer a D SI2. Color is as white as can be and inclusions are like birth marks or you can''t see them if the diamond is dirty too.

 

[dastewar]

Date: 5/9/2005 3:58:14 AM
Author: MiniMouse
I agree, each one to their own, however, I''m happy if a stone is eye clean, after all who goes round with a magnifying glass anyway? I''d prefer to use the extra money for other stuff. Originally we were thinking of VVS, then came down to VS and now we''re going to consider SI even though we can afford higher clarity. Why pay it if you don''t need to? However, if you prefer ''mind clean'' then there''s nothing wrong with that. You delight in knowing your diamond is flawless to the eye and x10, but I am going to delight in knowing my diamond is eye clean and I saved a whole heap of money as well. I get a lot of satisfaction from that... and even greater satisfaction in knowing that the money saved can perhaps go towards another diamond purchase later

You''re happy, I''m happy, so that''s what counts.

I have been doing the same thing as you along the clarity scale. However, after looking at a few SI1''s, I''m getting the sense that it''s harder to find a "hawk eye clean" SI1 than I would have thought by reading this forum.

Does anyone have a guesstimate as to the % of SI1''s that are really eye clean (not almost eye clean, or eye clean 1 ft, etc)?

 

[Mara]

I took Garry's post to mean that people are pre-conditioned to think one way or the other and that will not change and that will determine what you want to buy/end up with and what will make you happy vs not.

So any girl who maybe thinks she knows about diamonds (not PSers

who know the real deal!) has PRECONCEIVED notions about what is or is not acceptable. aka a preconceived notion that an I or J stone is going to be YELLOW. or an SI2 is going to be DIRTY. that D is ICY WHITE. that IF is FLAWLESS. they hear and see what they want to see. Regardless of what may be reality.

People who buy D stones have minds that tell them that stone is 'icy white' (careful with that phrase!!

) and that is what they are after. The most colorless stone.

People who buy J stones have minds that tell them that stone is 'near colorless'...and that is good enough--maybe they are comprimising on something else, like size.

I have to say...in general I NEVER thought I would get a J stone. I started out with a G..felt safe, looked white. Then went to an H...figured that was a sweet spot, looked friggin icy white to me. The J jump was a real tough one for me and I agonized over it for weeks. In the end I am SO happy with my choice. I can see some tinge from the side but I look at it that way maybe 1/15 of the time, from the top down that sucker is blinding white and I mean it. Having seen an E (greg's), G, H, I ACA earrings and now this J...I am very impressed. CUT makes a huge difference of course. But when I put my big J against Greg's little E...it doesn't look one whit different. It's amazing but true. Sure on a white paper background, yes, I'm sure there is some color, but SET? It's a different animal. All Greg says when he sees them side by side, is that he wants an upgrade.

Re: the J VVS..to me that's not a combo I'd be interested in. If I had $$ to spend on VVS I'd up my color....and get something more middle of the road like a G VS, but I'd probably just drop that VVS to an SI and get a BIGGER STONE.

 

[rms]

I get a chuckle out of the fact that the individual who started this thread does not seem to have posted anything else since. And look at the stir it has caused!! Now helloooooo, carina!! Do you have anything else to add, or was this your intention...to just sit back and watch people react to your statement?!?!

My stone is pretty darn imperfect...bought it before I found out about PS and didn''t even participate in the selection process, since I was surprised. I obsessed for quite a long time about it, and decided that I love it regardless. Now that is what gives me such a good feeling.

 

[Lynette]

I''m a rebel in the other direction- I bought an F-I1 that I jokingly call my big honking inclusion but in truth I have to put on my reading glasses or get out my loupe to find it. I''m fond of it because it allowed me to buy a 1.25 carat stone when I couldn''t afford it. I know where it is and I have told others that it''s there but they can''t find it. I picked the diamond with my eyes first and looked at the stats later- I kept coming back to it. I don''t know that I would buy an I1 without seeing it in person first but once I saw it I thought- "that''s it? I can live with that." Of course my career is to work with persons with disabilities and we only see their abilities too.

 

[jillxx75]

Date: 5/9/2005 3

4:46 PM
Author: Smith

I have been doing the same thing as you along the clarity scale. However, after looking at a few SI1''s, I''m getting the sense that it''s harder to find a ''hawk eye clean'' SI1 than I would have thought by reading this forum.

Does anyone have a guesstimate as to the % of SI1''s that are really eye clean (not almost eye clean, or eye clean 1 ft, etc)?

We just bought an SI2 that is extremely eye clean. The appraiser was actually shocked (just a handful of TINY feathers).

If you look, they are out there. I would go down in clarity, but not in color. The yellow would bother me WAY more than knowing that there were tiny white flecks that could barely be seen with a loupe.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Ahhh taste!

I don’t fancy cucumbers but my brother loves them. OTOH, he is not an olive fan, but I sure am. So, when we order salads there is a quick re-toss that makes us both happy.

On a more expensive note, there will always be people who love the well-cut J that faces up white or prefers lower colors for the sake of their warmth and beauty. There are also those who cherish the individuality that visible or loupe-able inclusions bring. Sure, the D Flawless may command the skybox price, but it’s not everyone’s cup of tea… Or bowl of salad.

~

That said, there is another important point here: Not only is all of this dependent on taste, the matter is also peculiar to each particular diamond considered:

As it stands there is a degree of subjectivity in grading. This is amplified by the fact that different labs have different levels of strictness (here is the grading lab survey conducted by Dave, Garry & Leonid).

So - You will be able to find Js that face-up white due to great cut. You can also find grades of SI that are completely eye-clean. This is not in question, they are the subjects of many PS threads. Beware though that with less strictness comes examples of diamonds with colorless grades that show tint, and with eye-clean grades when they are not. Until and unless diamond grading is done unilaterally - by all labs - on a uniform, repeatable/mechanical platform this will always be the case.

You should expect some snow in a very hot place before that happens.

This is why PriceScope is so valuable for the exchange of ideas, information and experience. To each his own – and to each diamond its own.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Sorry if I offended anyone - not my intention at all - the question was about "MIND CLEAN"

VVS is not mind clean
E is not mind clean

SI is miles off mind clean
G is miles off mind clean

I2 is .......
J is ........

Thats all.

But for me in larger damonds I like D-E VS2-SI1 because for me a diamond need not be mind clean (it must be my dirty mind at play again?)

 

[cflutist]

Date: 5/9/2005 9

9:43 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Sorry if I offended anyone - not my intention at all - the question was about ''MIND CLEAN''

VVS is not mind clean
E is not mind clean

SI is miles off mind clean
G is miles off mind clean

I2 is .......
J is ........

Thats all.

But for me in larger damonds I like D-E VS2-SI1 because for me a diamond need not be mind clean (it must be my dirty mind at play again?)

I like D-E VS2-SI1 too but in a larger stone, the cost gets prohibitive for most of us. My previous e-ring had a 2.05 ct D-VS2, it was a beautiful stone. In hindsight I should have kept that stone as it has increased in value faster than my new e-ring. But when websailor bought my 3ct, we had to "settle" for an F-SI1 so I could have a 3 ct stone. I think many others make the same compromises. Wouldn''t we all love a D-VS2 for the price of a J-SI2?

 

[MissAva]

I dont care for color I am highly sensitive too it and everytime I see one even a low H I feel like it need sto be cleaned, this is just me. Others seem to enjoy the warmth of their stones and that is all that matters. Diamonds are intensely personal and that is the bottom line for me. It is yours you are the only one wearing it or looking at daily. Who cares what others think? Make yourself happy first(or if you are a guy ask your lady).