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VS2 - black spots?

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J

JK

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
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8
Hello all. Ive just found this site (after already buying a diamond!)
You all seem very knowledgable on this whole diamond business - so some advice/help/recommendations would be appreciated (im freaking out a little)
My fiance and I purchased an 89 point FVS2 ideal cut on the web, fully certified by the right people. Best I could find for set budget. Yes, im the girl, but i did all the research!
Anyway the diamond was delivered to my fiance, who then had it set for me - he still wanted the surprise factor so we designed the setting with the jeweller then I was not to see the diamond or ring untill it was being put on my finger. All was perfect untill I was examining my sparkly rock - only to find 3 small black spots through the table, able to be seen with the naked eye from approx 6 inches away......... whats going on here? Was all my research in vain?
Please correct me if im wrong, but isnt VS2 supposed to be EYE CLEAN?

Please help, but be kind, im feeling a bit fragile about the whole thing.....

 
what kind of certificate does it have? EGL, GIA, AGS, etc? Is there an inclusion plot on the certificate? Did you have it independently appraised?
I am NOT an expert, but eye visible black spots sound suspicious to me in a VS2.
Maybe more info would help others here help you.
 
I suppose at 6" with really good eyes you might see the grade-setters. It seems doubtful.

Did you pay for a GIA VS2?
 
Thanks for the replies. I wasnt sure if I was allowed to mention any names of companies on here. It is HRD certified. No chart plotting inclusions - I was told that was not done on stones under 1c. It is lazer inscribed with cert. number though.
 
Did you have it verified by an independent appraiser?

Maybe one of the experts can chime in about eye visible black spots in a VS2.

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Not as yet, no. The thing is that I havent even told my fiance - it would break his heart if he knew that I was not 100% happy with it..... trying to work out what to do without actually telling him. Any experts out there, id love to hear your opinion.....
 
I think that every single internet vendor that has the same bs about "vs2- inclusions only visible at 10X" should be beaten.

Shouldn''t a vs2 be eye clean you ask? No. Some disagree and say I''m a crazy eagle eye.

Eye clean is a subjective term. To most, eye clean means from about 12 inches away from the stone, looking casually...not eyeballing the stone knowing where the inclusions are. I returned a GIA vs2 princess for that reason. I have an awesome vs2 cushion now and at times, I can see the tiny black dot (noticed it after about 2 weeks...but I loved the stone so much)....

I am surprised you can see it at the .89 size but do believe it. Some vs2s are better than others and some are borderline si1s. It''s all about the type and color of the inclusion and the placement. I bet yours are right at the heart of the princess- in that white X part of the princess!
 
When I was looking at round stones, I came across a VS2 and a SI1 that I really liked by the numbers. I looked at both, and immediately noticed a little black dot on one of them. I told the jeweler that that one must be the SI1, but I was wrong!! Actually, the VS2 had the eye-visible spot and the SI1 didn''t have any that I could notice at that precise moment. Turns out the VS2 had a black crystal under the table that I could CLEARLY see. But my fiance wasn''t able to see it (or so he claimed). So I guess my point is that VS2 eye-visible stones do exist, at least for me ;)

Good luck with deciding what to do...
 
What''s HRD certified? Never heard of them. Just curious, what country are you located in?
 
I was wondering myself whether "eye clean" was somewhat a subjective term...... and its interesting to hear that others have seen similar stones (possibly my worst fears such as: a fake stone, fake cert, a swapped stone by my jeweller are not as likely as I thought......)
All the research I have done through various sites on the web, and through a few jewellers is that even SI1 should be eye clean. However once I found that my VS2 was not - all of my contacts started to tell me otherwise, that VS2 were often not eye clean! The company I purchased through told me that I should have spent more money and purchased a VVS stone if that was an issue for me! Well had they told me that the stone had black spots I would have! They started out trying to sell me SI1 which they told me would have no visible marks!
So basically, it comes down to the fact that - either I was misinformed from the beginning, or didnt speak to the right people
OR somewhere in this process I have been ripped off by someone (and this is the one that im worried about the most).
The fact is, I love the stone I have, it sparkles beautifully - and I really dont believe the few inclusions that it has affect its sparkle or beauty ( I just have to learn to not examine everything so closely!)
But as im sure you all agree, after spending many months searching, and finally thinking you have found the perfect stone for your budget its dissappointing to think that you havent got what you thought you were getting......

Codex57, HRD are in Belgium, they are one of the major graders similar to GIA. I am in Australia though.
 
JK

maybe the best way to find out if your stone is eye clean or not is to ask some friends if they can spot any inclusions (top view, w/o loupe) without telling them where its located ,i'm sure there are some VS 2 stones that aren't eye clean to every pair of eyes (right MMM ?
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JK, read my logo on the bottom .
 
Date: 1/19/2005 9:31:58 PM
Author: JK
I was wondering myself whether ''eye clean'' was somewhat a subjective term...... and its interesting to hear that others have seen similar stones (possibly my worst fears such as: a fake stone, fake cert, a swapped stone by my jeweller are not as likely as I thought......)
All the research I have done through various sites on the web, and through a few jewellers is that even SI1 should be eye clean. However once I found that my VS2 was not - all of my contacts started to tell me otherwise, that VS2 were often not eye clean! The company I purchased through told me that I should have spent more money and purchased a VVS stone if that was an issue for me! Well had they told me that the stone had black spots I would have! They started out trying to sell me SI1 which they told me would have no visible marks!
So basically, it comes down to the fact that - either I was misinformed from the beginning, or didnt speak to the right people
OR somewhere in this process I have been ripped off by someone (and this is the one that im worried about the most).
The fact is, I love the stone I have, it sparkles beautifully - and I really dont believe the few inclusions that it has affect its sparkle or beauty ( I just have to learn to not examine everything so closely!)
But as im sure you all agree, after spending many months searching, and finally thinking you have found the perfect stone for your budget its dissappointing to think that you havent got what you thought you were getting......

Codex57, HRD are in Belgium, they are one of the major graders similar to GIA. I am in Australia though.
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The whole thing comes down to the subjectivity of "eye clean." When it came to the actual stone I ended up purchasing, the vendor told me it was completley eye clean. I took one look at it with my eyes and spotted an inclusion near the girdle. So it definitely depends on the person. No matter how many times I show my fiance, he still can''t see the inclusion!!

But actually, I like having one or two eye-visible inclusions because it is an easy way for me to identify my stone if I ever have to leave it somewhere. Plus, I like to think of inclusions more as "birthmarks."
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Then I don''t feel so bad either lol!
 
"Clean Eye" is a joke to me!
I have seen the exact same thing in VS2-SI1!
Black dots and White bubbles on the side of the diamonds.

You have to be very specific when you are buying a diamond. The diamond must be flawless of all visible inclusions. I was very specific with my fiancé about not seeing any inclusions under any circumstances and he bought me a VS1 so that he didn''t have to worry! He actually pasted up on a VS2.


Talk to your fiancé about it and show him the visible inclusions I am sure that he would want you to be happy! Good luck!

 
It really depends on the stone. I had a similar discussion with my appraiser and he basically told me the GIA party line. The grade depends upon upon the nature (type), number, size and location of the inclusions. A VS2 grade is no assurance of "eye clean", although usually safe.

Like RA, I''m surprised that the grade makers can be seen from 6" especially if they are black. I bought a 1.36 carat VS2 graded stone where the grade maker was a single black crystal at the edge of the stone. It was almost imposiible to see at 2" face up. Face down it looked like a very tiny spec, and I mean tiny. Covered it with a prong and the only thing visible at 50x was the reflection. It was an effective VVS1 stone when mounted. I guess long winded way to say it depends on the stone.

Are you still within the return period?
 
Here is a superbcert princess (just to show what I mean...this is a clean stone). Two princess stones (not superbcerts)(one was a vs2, the other *was* an si1 so I forgive that stone) I had, had the main black inclusions together smack in the middle of the lower left leg of the white X. Around the edges, it would be hard to see!

superb1.jpg
 
Thankyou all for your responses, it helps to have other input and experiences to help decide what to do. It sounds like inclusions in VS2 can be common - but it seems the positioning of mine are not as "discreet" or tiny as others. But then again I do have very good eyesight! I know if I was to give the ring to someone else they would have a hard time spotting them - its just that I have spent too much time staring at it.....

I will still take it into DCLA which is the grading company in Australia, just so I know for sure that I havent had my diamond switched or anything devious like that.
The stone is past the return period - however they have a lifetime upgrade policy - to be honest though, its not the inclusions that bother me - the stone is beautiful. I would rather have a sparkling stone that was put on my finger during a romantic proposal, rather than a "perfect" stone that is not linked to that wonderful moment..... im sure most romantics would agree with that!
I am more upset at the possibility that the stone was switched by a devious jeweller, or a fake certificate, or something dodgy like that. But you have all helped to put it into perspective a little. The case is probably that I have the correct stone, I was just a little mislead as to the clarity I was buying.
I''ll update anyone who is interested after I have it checked out with DCLA. Thanks all!
 
Date: 1/19/2005 8:38
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9 PM
Author: codex57
What''s HRD certified? Never heard of them. Just curious, what country are you located in?
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HRD seems to be highly regarded among the pros. (It''s not like they don''t see a lot of diamonds in Antwerp!)

I''d have to look up a cert, but I think they give much better cut info than GIA does. Do a search here and I''m sure a ton of info will come up.
 
I am sorry that your VS2 is not eyeclean. I had a similar problem with a cloud that I was told I could not see but it was directly under the centre of the table and I could certainly see it.
Can you say where you got it as I am in Aus too? I haven''t launched out to the net and apart from this were there many problems?
 
Hi JK:

A couple things to keep in mind. HRD is a reputable lab. Based on your description princess stones are a little less brilliant, and when properly cut have greater scintillation around the edges of the stone. Depending on the location of your inclusions, they can me more readily viewed because of the larger table which princess stones have vs. Round brilliants. It sounds like you have rational expectations of the whole process taking into account the sentimental value of "the moment" which you don't want to spoil for him. There are various nuances in diamond grading which carry the vs2 designation which can range from a possible darker inlusion to faint white feathers which aren't readily noticable. Hope all goes well for you...
 
But VS means Very Slightly so how can inclusion be seen with naked eyes?
 
Hi Josh, my stone is a round brilliant, not princess. I think there was a bit of confusion about that earlier in the thread.
Beauty, the stone was purchased through Original Diamonds. In Aus they are based in Brisbane - however I am in Sydney so could not go to them so did it all on line and over the phone. They were good to deal with, however that doesnt really redeem the fact that the words "perfectly eye clean" were used and I ended up with a stone with tiny black spots in the centre of the stone.... but then again, as others have mentioned the term may be subjective.
Also I was told 72 hours and I would have the stone - well it got caught up in customs where it stayed for another 5 days! There were taxes that needed to be paid which meant the stone would not be released untill they were paid. Thankfully the company paid them quickly and the diamond was delivered to me........ I was panicked for a few days there - having never bought anything online before. Wow, now I think of it - it wasnt exactly an easy transaction at all!
And Nicolas - if you are looking to purchase a VS stone, check out some of the other peoples experiences with VS stones - seems "eyeclean" is a bit subjective. All people in the industry were assuring me SI1 was eyeclean too - I did not see a single SI1 stone that I couldnt see inclusions in. I am happy however that my inclusions are tiny black "pinprick" inclusions rather than some of the "cloud" inclusions I have seen - they can really decrease the brilliance and sparkle (well in the stones I saw I mean, maybe not in all cases)
 
Thanks for the reply in your time of stress.
All I can suggest is to wear and wear it and you will grow to love it so much that you wouldn''t want any other ring. I am surprised how attached I am to my zircon because I can''t afford a diamond that big. Even if it causes stress it will grow on you anyway.
 
Hi All. Just wanted to let anyone who is interested know how things went with this issue of mine from months ago.
I had the diamond re-certified by another grading lab, they came up with the same grading - VS2.
So it just confirms that eye-clean is very subjective....
Apparantly I have very good eye-sight.....
 
JK - you must have eyes like a hawk!
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I once had trouble spotting an inclusion in an emerald cut (normally much harder to see inclusions in) that was smack-bang in the middle, most obvious spot of all. Lol!

But I''m very glad to hear you weren''t ripped off or anything!

Here''s an alternative way of looking at your stone (this is the way I like to think of inclusions) ... no relationship is flawless so why should your diamond be? But that doesn''t mean that despite its flaws its not beautiful and perfect for you.
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You are obviously quite young. in a few years you will not be able to focus from 6 inches.
Normal viewing distances are considered by various agencies to be 10 inches to 14 inches.
Grading systems are all based on ease of detection with examination with a loupe - not naked eye - and HRD are a very worthy lab.
Glad it has all worked out.
 
Yeah... colored inclusions are quite visible even if relatively small - if those dots were colorless feathers, I doubt you would have seen them. Black spots show more.

I am not surprised that you found VS2 black inclusions visible. It happens to me as well. 'Guess Garry is right about age bias
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Those specks do not make much of a difference to me though.
 
Jk,

Are you keeping the diamond?
 
I have two vs2s: A round that I still can''t find anything in(after years) and an oval that I can see a spot in if I stare(noticed after a week of gazing into it). At a normal glance it''s totally lost in the sparkle.
 
Yes LM, the stone was already set in the ring when I noticed the spots - so there was no way I was going to do anything about it.
I have no issues with the inclusions being there now, I was just so angry that after all my research, I might have been ripped off with some "shifty certificate" or something like that!
Its funny, I am still obsessed with diamonds after learning so much about them! I get annoyed when I ask about a ring in a jewellery store and the sales people have no clue about colour, cut, any of that! All they can say is - its a carat and its very white!
Thanks for all your input - sometimes I feel silly that I was so upset about a few spots that I never even notice anymore ( I guess the novelty has worn off a bit and I no longer stare at the ring from all angles!)
 
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