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VS2 and SI1 without seeing it

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bigjimmy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
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Hi,

I am considering to order a 2 carat diamond online via bluenile (i hope its reputable enough).
I''ve researched the forum and find lots of opinion about a "eye clean" SI1 is good enough, however, because I am ordering online, I really can''t get a "eye" on the diamond.

I''ve seen the GIA report on the SI1 diamond, and it looks like there''s no inclusion in the middle of the diamond (mostly on the side).

should I consider SI1 in this case?

also, what is the long term value of the SI1 stone compare with VS2?

greatly appreciate if you can give your suggestion on this

thanks

Jim
 
First, don''t buy diamonds for long term value. You will always lose your shirt.

Second, it''s a gamble with an SI1, so if you have the time to send it back if it''s not eyeclean, go for it. Otherwise I would prefer to buy from a vendor who can/will eyeball the stone for me first and tell me if it''s eyeclean. The plot unfortunately doesn''t tell you much.
 
Date: 11/15/2008 9:37:09 PM
Author: neatfreak
The plot unfortunately doesn''t tell you much.
Click to expand...
...unless...the plot thickens!

(Couldn''t resist...
1.gif
)

Agree mostly with neatfreak. Except, also, and it may be variable from the rep at BN...but you can ask someone to eyeball the diamond from you. The rep may pick up a phone, and have to call someone to do it for you. Ultimately...unless it''s you, it''s always going to be just someone else, and what they say. Of course, a problem will have to do with reliability. But...if it''s like obviously no, you tell them it''s important to you, they would be wise to tell you from the outset, and you can both save yourself some time. It may, of course (and is likely to be) closer than that.

I probably didn''t help much. It''s just something to do vis-a-vis due diligence.
 
Date: 11/15/2008 9:37:09 PM
Author: neatfreak
First, don''t buy diamonds for long term value. You will always lose your shirt.

Second, it''s a gamble with an SI1, so if you have the time to send it back if it''s not eyeclean, go for it. Otherwise I would prefer to buy from a vendor who can/will eyeball the stone for me first and tell me if it''s eyeclean. The plot unfortunately doesn''t tell you much.
Click to expand...
Ditto. Buying from a vendor that can eyeball it for you is soooo worth it .
2.gif
 
Date: 11/15/2008 9:37:09 PM
Author: neatfreak
First, don''t buy diamonds for long term value. You will always lose your shirt.


Second, it''s a gamble with an SI1, so if you have the time to send it back if it''s not eyeclean, go for it. Otherwise I would prefer to buy from a vendor who can/will eyeball the stone for me first and tell me if it''s eyeclean. The plot unfortunately doesn''t tell you much.
Click to expand...

Are SI1''s really a gamble though? I was under the impression that they''re pretty safe.. (as long as they''re GIA or AGS of course)
 
Date: 11/16/2008 12:15:19 AM
Author: bigjimmy
While I am at it:

http://www.bluenile.com/diamonds_details.asp?pid=LD01179332

http://www.bluenile.com/diamonds_details.asp?pid=LD00122618

can someone give me advice on these 2 diamond that I'm concerned about? if they are worth the money? (a bit confused about the table/depth/girdle thing)...and if the SI is just as good as the VS2 here.

thanks
Click to expand...
You can do better for cut than these two, look at some AGS0 and some other GIA Excellent cut grade then we can help from there? Also unless having a D colour is important to you, you could drop the colour to F to G or even H and still have a very white diamond.

Namaste, SI clarities are not created equal and eyesights and expectations vary among other factors, so it is always best to have a trusted vendor evaluate each diamond.
 
Date: 11/16/2008 12:57:58 AM
Author: Namaste
Date: 11/15/2008 9:37:09 PM

Author: neatfreak

First, don''t buy diamonds for long term value. You will always lose your shirt.



Second, it''s a gamble with an SI1, so if you have the time to send it back if it''s not eyeclean, go for it. Otherwise I would prefer to buy from a vendor who can/will eyeball the stone for me first and tell me if it''s eyeclean. The plot unfortunately doesn''t tell you much.
Click to expand...


Are SI1''s really a gamble though? I was under the impression that they''re pretty safe.. (as long as they''re GIA or AGS of course)
Click to expand...

I think they are. There are plenty of SI1''s that have visible inclusions. We are just spoiled because for the most part our favorite vendors cherry pick the SI1''s that ARE eyeclean.
 
I have an SI2, 1.71 carat cushion from Blue Nile. I talked to someone there many times before I bought it, she looked it over for me and claimed it was eyeclean. Guess what? She was right. It is a gamble, but can pay off. And you can always send it back within 30 days.
 
Thank you all for replying. and thanks stone cold for the suggestion:

I might go with the

2.0ct, E SI1 for $19021, HCA 1.4, in the AGS0 range, which is very rare considering the table size of this stone.

b/c it''s grade E (i really want a colorless round diamond), and with good price, I just called BN to confirm the eye clean part, still waiting for reply
I do have another concern, if its eye clean, then would i be able to see the crystal and needles from the top down?
and any reason I shouldn''t get this stone if its eye clean? thanks

thanks
 
If it is eye clean that means you cannot see anything from the top down at about 10 inches or so away. Blue nile does NOT house diamonds and they are shipped from other locations so everyone has different eye sights and views on what is eye clean.

Have you seen diamonds G and H color that have exellent cuts? IMO you could get a much better performing stone for that price but do whatever make you happy. .
 
Date: 11/16/2008 10:29:33 AM
Author: bigjimmy

2.0ct, E SI1 for $19021, HCA 1.4, in the AGS0 range, which is very rare considering the table size of this stone.



thanks
Click to expand...
The diamond in question has a larger table which is fine if you like that look, but many look for table range of around 54- 58% thereabouts. If you can see if you can view some similar diamonds in person to see which appeals to you most with the table sizes. Also the stone has strong blue fluorescence you would need to check that this does not have a negative effect on the diamond by making it look cloudy in some lights, this is rare but best to check. As to whether it is eyeclean to your standards or not you will have to make your expectations extremely clear to the BN rep and make sure they evaluate the diamond very carefully to give you an accurate picture.
 
Date: 11/16/2008 10:38:54 AM
Author: beach
If it is eye clean that means you cannot see anything from the top down at about 10 inches or so away. Blue nile does NOT house diamonds and they are shipped from other locations so everyone has different eye sights and views on what is eye clean.

Have you seen diamonds G and H color that have exellent cuts? IMO you could get a much better performing stone for that price but do whatever make you happy. .
Click to expand...
Ditto this. I know some people want to have a colorless diamond for the rarity, which is fine. But I just always like to say that too, because before I saw what a well cut "near" colorless diamond looked like, I only wanted colorless too. I now have an H that is nothing but bright shiny white! After having it, I doubt I''ll ever pay for anything above it, and will probably be looking for a J for a pendant. In a round you''re really safe going lower, fancy cuts can be different though.

Also, I''m not sure if you''ve already done this, but in case you haven''t, make SURE you get the crown and pavilion angles before buying anything. I bought a GIA excellent that was not excellent at all, and ended up having it recut. It is STUNNING now, but the whole process was looooooong and nerve wracking! The AGS''s cut grading is much more reliable, so if you find an AGS0, you shouldn''t have to do as much research.
 
jimmy

are you in nyc or anywhere you can take it to an independant appraiser ?
 
I just wanted to add my opinion and experience. I recently bought a SI1 stone off whiteflash and was assured it was eyeclean from all distances and angles and that I would not be able to see the inclusion under any circumstance (that was what I requested the conditions to be). But I can see the inclusion with the naked eye. Maybe I have extra sharp vision, or maybe the people grading the "eye cleanliness" level at WF just didn''t see it, or... whatever the case.... there could be many reasons. But my point is that you ARE TAKING A RISK no matter what the vendor says, even if they are reputable. Simply b/c it is an issue of eye sight.

I''m going to have to now spend about $80 on shipping charges to upgrade the stone to a VS2 if one even becomes available before I need it. So it is a bit of an inconvenience, annoyance, and more money gone. If you choose to take the risk, just be aware of the consequences. The costs and policies involved change from vendor to vendor so look into that.

P.S. I do think there are SI1 eye clean stones. But b/c of my experience mentioned above I don''t think I''d consider an online purchase of SI1 or lower anymore. Not trying to scare you, but trying to make sure you are 100% comfortable w/ your decision =)
 
And as others mentioned above, I''d recommend looking at G colored stones and that would save you some cost that you could put into a higher clarity if you want
1.gif
 
thank you again for all the recommendation.

I''m might consider getting this one:

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-2-carat-good-cut-g-color-vs1-clarity_LD01422170

please advice on the cut

thanks
 
This is a shallower stone jimmy, you can do better by finding a more balanced diamond unless you particularly like the sound of this one - however I would prefer more depth and a smaller table, it has a large spread for the weight which results from the shallow depth etc - however this may not be such a good thing as the diamond may not perform as well as it could due to the shallow proportions. Here are some numbers you can use as guidelines to find a well balanced round diamond.

depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above

note - with crown and pavilion angles at the shallower ends ( CA 34- PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35- PA 41) check to make sure these angles complement in that particular diamond - eyeballs, Idealscope, trusted vendor input - check as appropriate!

And for selecting good crown and pavilion combinations from one of our experts -

Here's a "Cliff's Notes" for staying near Tolkowsky/ideal angles with GIA reports (their numbers are rounded): A crown angle of 34.0, 34.5 or 35.0 is usually safe with a 40.8 pavilion angle. If pavilion angle = 40.6 lean toward a 34.5-35.0 crown. If pavilion angle = 41 lean toward a 34.0-34.5 crown.

GIA "EX" in cut is great at its heart, but it ranges a bit wider than some people prefer, particularly in deep combinations (pavilion > 41 with crown > 35).

 
From the HCA, it scored a 2.5, so might be ok to consider it if you are on a tight bidget but this is what is called a pendant/earring stone by HCA. It is a shallow crown/shallow pavilion combination, which results in most of the source of light reflected coming from the direction of the observer. So if the observer is too close to the stone, looking closely at an e-ring, it will likely go dark as there is no light to reflected as the observer is blocking the light source, so not advisable if you are buying the stone for an e-ring unless you are able to keep everyone at an arm''s length away.

From normal viewing distances, it should look resonably fine.
 
Jimmy,

Just wanted to throw this one into the mix, it is a little smaller but has a fantastic cut. Just check with Jon at GOG that the fluorescence is ok ( rarely it can cause a diamond to look cloudy in some lights if the fluorescence is strong) but I highly doubt it would be a problem in a top cut hand picked stone such as this,

http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/4984/
 
dear all:

thank you for your suggestions,

I've come down to the final selections,
this stone is VS2, H color, with ideal cuts, and good score on HCA

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-2-carat-ideal-cut-h-color-vs2-clarity_LD01449769

or

E color, SI with good score on HCA, eye clean according to BN

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-2-carat-very-good-cut-e-color-si1-clarity_LD01306362?__fun_frm=i&filter_id=0

given both the clarity is good, how to tell which one is a better buy?

and thank you for those who warns me of BN, but seems like they are the only one that ships international, so I am pretty stucked, so just trying to find the best I can get.


thanks a million
 
Date: 11/18/2008 2:54:34 AM
Author: bigjimmy
dear all:

thank you for your suggestions,

I've come down to the final selections,
this stone is VS2, H color, with ideal cuts, and good score on HCA

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-2-carat-ideal-cut-h-color-vs2-clarity_LD01449769

or

E color, SI with good score on HCA, eye clean according to BN

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-2-carat-very-good-cut-e-color-si1-clarity_LD01306362?__fun_frm=i&filter_id=0

given both the clarity is good, how to tell which one is a better buy?

and thank you for those who warns me of BN, but seems like they are the only one that ships international, so I am pretty stucked, so just trying to find the best I can get.


thanks a million
Click to expand...
If you don't want a stone with a smaller table then the these could be an option, the first especially. Also BN are a reputable vendor it is just that they don't offer so much info on their diamonds as some of the others. Also I am of the understanding that some of the other vendors do ship internationally if you inquire?
 
Where are you from if I may ask?

Anyway, my opinions are as follows.

H VS2 is probably a safer bet as AGS grades optical performance much tighter and VS2 is a cleaner face up stone.

The E SI1 stone''s performance is predicted by HCA, so that might be a hit and miss there. A size that is just in 2ct, so a chip on it, very rare occurrence, will cause a larger drop in price. SI1 you will need to check to make sure it is eye-clean when you get it immediately. The things going for it are the color and fluor, as these are things of the stone property and cannot be change with cutting, as in you can get better optical performance and maybe better clarity depending on where the inclusions are located by re-cutting it but there is no way to change the color and fluor of the stone.

So depends on what you like best. Good Luck. :)
 
Lorelei: its not that I don''t want a stone with a smaller table, but seems like those with good HCA score stones on BN seems to have a bigger table.

Stone: I am in Hong Kong right now, the reason that I want to get online, is b/c I went to a jewelery in HK, most of the F/SI1 costs between 25-30K (that is with reputable vendor).

so that a H is not noticeable on the ring if the cut is good?

thanks
 
Date: 11/18/2008 3:49:17 AM
Author: bigjimmy
Lorelei: its not that I don''t want a stone with a smaller table, but seems like those with good HCA score stones on BN seems to have a bigger table.

so that a H is not noticeable on the ring if the cut is good?

thanks
Click to expand...
An H colour is a sweet spot for many here, it will still look plenty white with a well cut stone, that is why it is such a popular choice as it looks white but you don''t pay the premium of the colourless grades.
 
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