Very odd...?

[Laila619]

A well-known Pricescope vendor told me that there is absolutely no difference in the various Platinum alloys. When I replied that 95/5 Ruthenium vs 95/5 Iridium have significantly different hardness ratings on the Vickers scale, the vendor said, "Because the amount of alloy used is so miniscule, it does not matter." Odd! I am used to brick and mortar jewelers saying incorrect things, but I was puzzled that a Pricescope vendor wouldn''t know this.

Oh well.

We PSers know too much sometimes!

 

[stone-cold11]

hmm.. go correct him...

http://www.platinumguild.com/output/page3211.asp

 

[denverappraiser]

We’re all human. If they’re one of the regulars who monitor the forum, I’ll be they don’t make that particular mistake again.

As I’m sure you know, you’re right. 1% alloy is the difference between carbon steel and pig iron.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[elle_chris]

I'm sure the vendor knows the differences. I just think they gave you a general answer as opposed to going into miniscule details about the alloys. Is there a reason you asked? would you rather have one over the other?

 

[Laila619]

elle, I was telling them I only wanted a certain alloy and they asked why??? because they are "all the same."

Thanks Stone-cold and Neil.

 

[elle_chris]

Oh, then yep, bad answer on the vendors part.

 

[Laila619]

Perhaps the bench person only likes to work in one alloy or the others are too difficult, so he/she steers people away from requesting something else. Maybe that's it.

 

[neatfreak]

Can I ask if it REALLY matters? I think that maybe the vendor was telling you it didn''t matter and that they were all the same because to 99.9% of the jewelry buying population they ARE the same?

I think sometimes we get wrapped up in such tiny details on here that we lose sight of the fact that unless someone told you what your ring was made of would you REALLY know which alloy it was?

 

[elle_chris]

Date: 9/1/2009 7:17:13 PM
Author: neatfreak
Can I ask if it REALLY matters? I think that maybe the vendor was telling you it didn''t matter and that they were all the same because to 99.9% of the jewelry buying population they ARE the same?

I think sometimes we get wrapped up in such tiny details on here that we lose sight of the fact that unless someone told you what your ring was made of would you REALLY know which alloy it was?

Neat I agree with you. I can''t tell the difference between the alloys in my rings and to be honest, don''t care. But hey, if a customer wants a particular one, they should at least explain why their bench person won''t do it.

Laila- why do you prefer one over the other?

 

[stone-cold11]

It matters if you understand what those values are and what they represent in terms of wear and durability.

 

[elle_chris]

Stone- my oldest platinum band is my five year old wedding band that''s 95plat/5 tungsten alloy. I have other rings that are 90 and 95 plat/iridium and ruth. They all wear the same for the most part. I think it has more to do with how hard or not a person is on their rings, rather than the alloy the plat. is mixed with.

 

[stone-cold11]

That also, but if the alloy is hard in the first place, it will wear better.

Do you know the exact HV of these alloys? They can be work harden also, so it really depends on what alloy and how much work hardening is done to the alloy. Then it can be a useful comparison. Else you can say they are all different alloys but by luck, maybe all have almost the same HV?

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 9/1/2009 7:55:44 PM
Author: elle_chris
Stone- my oldest platinum band is my five year old wedding band that''s 95plat/5 tungsten alloy. I have other rings that are 90 and 95 plat/iridium and ruth. They all wear the same for the most part. I think it has more to do with how hard or not a person is on their rings, rather than the alloy the plat. is mixed with.

I am not an expert-but here are my observations. I have a few very old platinum pieces from my grandmother, a few other vintage pieces, and a few new pieces. I would venture to say that they probably all are a little different and they all look EXACTLY the same. And none seem to wear faster than the others.

I agree though if a client wants a particular one they should oblige! But I personally don''t ask and don''t care when I get pieces made.

 

[Laila619]

Date: 9/1/2009 7:42:23 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
It matters if you understand what those values are and what they represent in terms of wear and durability.

Yes. For example, many designers (Tacori, Tiffany and Co., Scott Kay, Leon) will only use 95/5 Ruthenium Platinum because it is the most durable and scratch resistant alloy. They do that for a reason!

 

[tlroza]

I think that''s why people come on here and post, it does matter what they buy and what they want. I think that''s why sometimes I kinda shake my head when I read some of the posts.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 9/1/2009 8:18:38 PM
Author: Laila619

Date: 9/1/2009 7:42:23 PM

Author: Stone-cold11

It matters if you understand what those values are and what they represent in terms of wear and durability.

Yes. For example, many designers (Tacori, Tiffany and Co., Scott Kay, Leon) will only use 95/5 Ruthenium Platinum because it is the most durable and scratch resistant alloy. They do that for a reason!

But not everyone...Mark Morrell who IMO is one of the best platinum designers around uses 10% iridium...so obviously even among the trade there is some disagreement about what is "best".

 

[Ellen]

And this is why I went plastic. Much less confusing!

 

[John P]

Date: 9/1/2009 7:55:44 PM
Author: elle_chris
Stone- my oldest platinum band is my five year old wedding band that's 95plat/5 tungsten alloy. I have other rings that are 90 and 95 plat/iridium and ruth. They all wear the same for the most part. I think it has more to do with how hard or not a person is on their rings, rather than the alloy the plat. is mixed with.

This is so true. How hard a person is on the ring will be more significant to how it holds up over time than any other factor.

I have 950/Ru and my wife has 950/Ir. I'm harder on my ring - hey I'm a smelly boy - and you can see more evidence of wear on mine although my finger-beast is harder (around 130HV to her 80HV).

When it comes to concept and execution the choice of alloy depends on the way the piece will be formed, heat treatment or cold work, welding/soldering to be applied and the craftsman's skill. Seasoned smiths may develop a favorite based on personal experience but none is better or worse. The choice depends on a number of factors.

As for "miniscule" amounts, it's variable: Remember 95% implies WEIGHT, not volume. Platinum is heavy so it often requires more than 5% by volume of a lighter metal to match platinum by 5% in weight. You can see on the graphic below that far more Pt is used in 950/Ir than 950/Co - even though they are both "95%" platinum alloys. [Graphic from PS journal ]

 

[John P]

Date: 9/1/2009 9:29:16 PM
Author: Ellen
And this is why I went plastic. Much less confusing!

Heirloom bubble gum machine rings. Estate sales and auctions. I know they are out there.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 9/1/2009 11:02:01 PM
Author: John Pollard

Date: 9/1/2009 9:29:16 PM
Author: Ellen
And this is why I went plastic. Much less confusing!

Heirloom bubble gum machine rings. Estate sales and auctions. I know they are out there.

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 9/1/2009 9:23:26 PM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 9/1/2009 8:18:38 PM

Author: Laila619

Date: 9/1/2009 7:42:23 PM


Author: Stone-cold11


It matters if you understand what those values are and what they represent in terms of wear and durability.

Yes. For example, many designers (Tacori, Tiffany and Co., Scott Kay, Leon) will only use 95/5 Ruthenium Platinum because it is the most durable and scratch resistant alloy. They do that for a reason!

But not everyone...Mark Morrell who IMO is one of the best platinum designers around uses 10% iridium...so obviously even among the trade there is some disagreement about what is ''best''.

10% Ir is still almost 1.5 times the HV and tensile strength of the more common Pt950 Ir. 5% Ru HV and tensile strength value is much closer. Probably has to do with familiarity with the alloy, each having slightly different properties, that individual jeweler/designer prefer.

 

[Diamond Explorer]

I can understand how a jeweler could say that they are all essentially the same. Platinum is generally platinum, and the nuances between the various alloy formulas are pretty subtle, however they are real, and your preferences should be met.

It saves a great deal of time and effort for a shop to use only a single platinum alloy and so they often resist special requests. I design in any alloy my client prefers, but this is only because I am willing to put in the extra time and effort, some jewelers don't want to do this, or can't for other practical reasons. You should get exactly the ring you want, and are not being unreasonable or over particular by knowing the exact alloy you desire and why.

 

[Laila619]

Date: 9/2/2009 4:28:26 PM
Author: Diamond Explorer
I can understand how a jeweler could say that they are all essentially the same. Platinum is generally platinum, and the nuances between the various alloy formulas are pretty subtle, however they are real, and your preferences should be met.

It saves a great deal of time and effort for a shop to use only a single platinum alloy and so they often resist special requests. I design in any alloy my client prefers, but this is only because I am willing to put in the extra time and effort, some jewelers don''t want to do this, or can''t for other practical reasons. You should get exactly the ring you want, and are not being unreasonable or over particular by knowing the exact alloy you desire and why.

Thank you Jonathan!

Sounds like you provide your customers great service!

 

[LadyLilac]

Date: 9/2/2009 5:06:19 PM
Author: Laila619

Date: 9/2/2009 4:28:26 PM
Author: Diamond Explorer
I can understand how a jeweler could say that they are all essentially the same. Platinum is generally platinum, and the nuances between the various alloy formulas are pretty subtle, however they are real, and your preferences should be met.

It saves a great deal of time and effort for a shop to use only a single platinum alloy and so they often resist special requests. I design in any alloy my client prefers, but this is only because I am willing to put in the extra time and effort, some jewelers don''t want to do this, or can''t for other practical reasons. You should get exactly the ring you want, and are not being unreasonable or over particular by knowing the exact alloy you desire and why.

Thank you Jonathan!

Sounds like you provide your customers great service!

As someone who basically stumbled into being a customer of Jonathan (very much like I stumbled into this particular thread!), take my word that he DOES provide great service