Vent and Advice Requested

[yennyfire]

My 8 year old son plays basketball at a local church. We like the program because in the younger grades, they don't keep score and encourage teamwork and fundamentals.

However, they also have 1st and 2nd graders play on the same team. There is a VAST difference between a 1st grader who has never played basketball before and a 2nd grader who has played on a team since kindergarten.

My son excels in sports. I have no illusions that he'll eventually make it to the major league or pro's, but for a 2nd grader, he's really good at both baseball and basketball. He practices a lot (because he enjoys it) and is also a leader, always telling his teamates "great shot Ryan" or "Come on, Conor, you can do it"....he is always encouraging his teamates and strives to set an example of good sportsmanship. His Dad and I have worked hard to make him understand that while it's great to be good at sports, nothing makes us prouder than when we see him help a younger child perfect his batting swing or encourage a player who's struck out.

Anyway, the head of the basketball program at this church is the older man (Frank)...pure Boston if you kwim....kind of tough, swaggers a bit and loves to hear his own voice. While I've always thought him a bit of a blow hard, he's always sent a positive message to the kids and that's what's important to us.

Fast forward to Saturday. After the game, Frank calls my son and two other boys (both 2nd graders) over. He tells that that they are too aggressive on the court and that they need to make more of an effort to pass the ball to the other kids (who, by the way are either not open or terrified of the ball in the first place). He gave them the "basketball is a team sport" speech. Now, I know both of these other kids. They are both like my son...people pleasers, obedient, polite, etc. As we were walking out after this speech, the other parents and I all said that we felt Frank was off base.

Today, at practice, he pulls my son over (the other two boys he had singled out weren't at practice today) and in front of the team, tells him that he won't be allowed to shoot in the last half of the game from now on (I didn't hear everything he said, but I did ask the Dad who was filling in for our usual coach if what my son told me Frank said was correct, and basically, it was.).

I am FURIOUS! First of all, Frank has no business telling my son he can't shoot the ball. Second, if he had a problem with the way my son was playing, he should have taken it up with the coach, who could have taken it up with me. Third, he's plain wrong. I watch my kid pretty closely, because I want to make sure he's being polite at all times, listening, etc. So, I know that the entire practice today, Nate was passing the ball and taking very few shots. My sweet child left practice crying.

I am an old school parent, so if my kid gets in trouble at school (which has actually never happened), he'll be in trouble at home too. I have NEVER disagreed so strongly with an adult in a position of authority in my child's life. My gut reaction is to pull Nate out and focus on baseball, but I know that's not teaching Nate the right way to handle things. I have emailed the coach to tell him what happened this afternoon (since he wasn't there and we had a sub). However, I don't think he's going to stand up to Frank on my kid's behalf (and I'm not saying that he should).

How do I approach Frank? He's the type to be incensed that I took my child's side over his and to take it out on my kid. If I let it go, I'm afraid that it will crush Nate, since he's always wanting to do the right thing and please people in positions of authority. I am honestly not sure I can be calm about this since I am so angry on my son's behalf.

Please, talk me off of the ledge and tell me how to do the right thing here. I think this may be one of those "teachable moments" and I don't want to blow it because I'm upset (and of course, DH is out of town and unreachable....)

 

[sonnyjane]

Hey Yenny,

I'll give you my opinion from a tough love perspective

If your son was in high school and potentially looking at getting scholarships for his talents, then you better believe you'd have every right to be upset and contact the coach and tell them that you want your kid getting as much court time as possible.... BUT... you are playing on a team of 1st and 2nd graders and you said that they don't even keep score because they want to encourage team work.

The truth is, and this is a compliment, that your son is much better than those around him and the coach is trying to spread the wealth so that other kids get a chance. Again, if it was a competitive league and there was a lot riding on his stats, then you should speak up, but it sounds like this is just a recreational thing for fun. If you'd like to invest more in his basketball "career" as it were, you should look into other leagues that do keep score and keep kids with their own age groups, but I see this as more of a fun activity.

Even into high school, if my swim team was really crushing another team, or if I was racing against someone that my coach knew was much slower, we would put in our second or third string swimmers, or my coach would come to me and tell me that I could "take it easy and just make sure I beat them at the end". It was taught to me that it was bad sportsmanship to "crush" your competition and they wanted everyone to have a chance to get their moment in the spotlight.

To summarize, if competitive sports are important, then you need to find an organized team that is serious about the rules, regulations, and competitive side of it, but if you're looking for all of those things in a fun league that doesn't keep score and just aims and teaching kids the fun of basketball, then you should lower your expectations. Remember, your kid is GOOD, they just want other kids to get a chance to play as well.

 

[aviastar]

Who is Frank's superior? The Pastor or an Activities Coordinator? Go to them. Frank is not the coach, so not in a position to make coaching decisions.

I would go in with the other parents of the singled out boys, too. Be calm, polite, and offer a solution; 'Frank has a justified concern because there are first time, younger players on our team, perhaps we can implement putting in a new sub every time out, in a rotation, so every child gets their fair turn to play and learn with and from each other.' (The time out rotation thing is what my DH's adult sports team uses, so it just popped into my head.)

My church also has a basketball league- but's it's not very formal and mostly for teens and adults. However, there are 'coaches' who head up each team and games are refereed- everyone is a volunteer. So if there was an issue with someone being singled out- and therefore changing the purpose and community of the activity- I would speak to our Pastor about it. I would trust his assessment of the situation and more than likely heed the advice he provided about handling it.

Good luck, that's a frustrating situation!

 

[ame]

I would ABSOLUTELY NOT let this go, and I would say something to Frank directly. I don't think he has any right to decide who needs to "spread the wealth". I get they're young and it's fair to "spread the wealth" but the younger kids need to learn the sport, and dumbing down the older kids skills for their sake teaches them nothing.

 

[aviastar]

Hey Yenny,

I'll give you my opinion from a tough love perspective

If your son was in high school and potentially looking at getting scholarships for his talents, then you better believe you'd have every right to be upset and contact the coach and tell them that you want your kid getting as much court time as possible.... BUT... you are playing on a team of 1st and 2nd graders and you said that they don't even keep score because they want to encourage team work.

The truth is, and this is a compliment, that your son is much better than those around him and the coach is trying to spread the wealth so that other kids get a chance. Again, if it was a competitive league and there was a lot riding on his stats, then you should speak up, but it sounds like this is just a recreational thing for fun. If you'd like to invest more in his basketball "career" as it were, you should look into other leagues that do keep score and keep kids with their own age groups, but I see this as more of a fun activity.

Even into high school, if my swim team was really crushing another team, or if I was racing against someone that my coach knew was much slower, we would put in our second or third string swimmers, or my coach would come to me and tell me that I could "take it easy and just make sure I beat them at the end". It was taught to me that it was bad sportsmanship to "crush" your competition and they wanted everyone to have a chance to get their moment in the spotlight.

To summarize, if competitive sports are important, then you need to find an organized team that is serious about the rules, regulations, and competitive side of it, but if you're looking for all of those things in a fun league that doesn't keep score and just aims and teaching kids the fun of basketball, then you should lower your expectations. Remember, your kid is GOOD, they just want other kids to get a chance to play as well.

Hmmm, I didn't read this as a competitive thing. But Yenny's son is being singled out for being different- in this case a better player, which is arguably the best reason to be singled out- and humiliated in front of his team. By someone who is NOT the coach. This is the opposite of a fun, team building environment to me. If no one is keeping score, then it shouldn't matter who does what on the court as long as everyone gets to play; I don't think it's right or nice to handcuff a child (a second grader!) in a game. As much as we can recognize, as adults, that it is in fact a compliment, it will be seen an felt as a punishment by the child.

 

[sonnyjane]

Hey Yenny,

I'll give you my opinion from a tough love perspective

If your son was in high school and potentially looking at getting scholarships for his talents, then you better believe you'd have every right to be upset and contact the coach and tell them that you want your kid getting as much court time as possible.... BUT... you are playing on a team of 1st and 2nd graders and you said that they don't even keep score because they want to encourage team work.

The truth is, and this is a compliment, that your son is much better than those around him and the coach is trying to spread the wealth so that other kids get a chance. Again, if it was a competitive league and there was a lot riding on his stats, then you should speak up, but it sounds like this is just a recreational thing for fun. If you'd like to invest more in his basketball "career" as it were, you should look into other leagues that do keep score and keep kids with their own age groups, but I see this as more of a fun activity.

Even into high school, if my swim team was really crushing another team, or if I was racing against someone that my coach knew was much slower, we would put in our second or third string swimmers, or my coach would come to me and tell me that I could "take it easy and just make sure I beat them at the end". It was taught to me that it was bad sportsmanship to "crush" your competition and they wanted everyone to have a chance to get their moment in the spotlight.

To summarize, if competitive sports are important, then you need to find an organized team that is serious about the rules, regulations, and competitive side of it, but if you're looking for all of those things in a fun league that doesn't keep score and just aims and teaching kids the fun of basketball, then you should lower your expectations. Remember, your kid is GOOD, they just want other kids to get a chance to play as well.

Hmmm, I didn't read this as a competitive thing. But Yenny's son is being singled out for being different- in this case a better player, which is arguably the best reason to be singled out- and humiliated in front of his team. By someone who is NOT the coach. This is the opposite of a fun, team building environment to me. If no one is keeping score, then it shouldn't matter who does what on the court as long as everyone gets to play; I don't think it's right or nice to handcuff a child (a second grader!) in a game. As much as we can recognize, as adults, that it is in fact a compliment, it will be seen an felt as a punishment by the child.

I agree with you that the child will still consider it a punishment, and I'm not agreeing that it's fair (I am really quite opposed to "participation medals" and things like that for the sake of making everyone feel like a "winner"). What I am saying is that if she wants to put her DS into an environment where his skills are honed and valued, then an exhibition league where there is no score isn't really the best way to do it. If that's the goal, then more organized teams are the answer. I apologize about the confusion. I saw that "Frank" was the head of the basketball program and assumed that meant the coach.

 

[yennyfire]

Sonny, I appreciate your perspective. This has nothing to do with wanting my son to be competitive or "crushing" anyone. Quite the opposite. We are all for having each of the kids have a chance on the court. They actually have each team of 10 kids divided into two groups and each group plays two quarters. That way, each child get equal time on the court. The issue is what happens WHILE they are on the court. Two of the boys are usually too busy talking to one another to notice that their teamate has the ball and the other child (in the group of 5 my son is on the court with) is afraid of the ball and throws his hands over his head when they pass the ball to him. That leaves my son and one of the other kids who was singled out by Frank.

If my son were monopolizing the game because he thought he was the best thing since sliced bread, you'd better believe that it wouldn't have taken Frank saying something for me to have intervened. My issue is that Frank is so off base and that he crushed my son, who takes great pride in being a team player. I agree with you that there is no need to humiliate a team you are better than. Simply ensure a win and move on. It teaches modestry and grace. This isn't the situation, as my son's team is usually on the "losing" side (we don't keep score, but when you team makes no baskets and the other team dunks it every time they get the ball, it's hard not to notice a discrepancy).

I think that the bottom line is that they need to do what they do in baseball...we have an American league and a National league. One is for kids who have played for a while and one is for kids who are just learning....that way, everyone is playing at their ability level and continuing to grow. I plan to make that suggestion, but that doesn't change the fact that I have to deal with the issue that Frank has placed a target on my son (and these two other kids) and that it's not deserved.

 

[Rosebloom]

Oh this is so hard! I'm so sorry you're in this situation! My boys are younger but it breaks my heart just thinking about them in this situation someday.

I'd talk to Frank. Calmly, politely but honestly. I'd make your approach one of trying to understand his position more than trying to get him to understand yours. Once you have a better sense of where he's coming from, maybe you could even say, "I understand your perspective, let me think on that a bit and I'd love to talk about this again in a few days." Then take a moment to give yourself a chance to reflect and to craft the best response. Then share your perspective with him and request that he lift the (absolutely ridiculous) no shooting in the first half policy. You may have to offer up some kind of compromise (always look for the open pass first? Although it sounds like he already does that!).

If Frank's a blow hard, you want to make sure he understands that you respect (or at least recognize) his authority and that you have considered his concerns. You just want to make sure his ego doesn't become a problem for your sweet boy.

My mom was one to fly off the handle when one of us kids was treated poorly. She never did so unless it was really obviously unfair but the result was that she felt better and our situation got much worse. I know she was trying to help but I think when kids are involved we have to focus more on achieving the outcome that's best than on venting our own frustration. Which is very hard!

I really hope you're able to resolve this!

 

[yennyfire]

Hey Yenny,

I'll give you my opinion from a tough love perspective

If your son was in high school and potentially looking at getting scholarships for his talents, then you better believe you'd have every right to be upset and contact the coach and tell them that you want your kid getting as much court time as possible.... BUT... you are playing on a team of 1st and 2nd graders and you said that they don't even keep score because they want to encourage team work.

The truth is, and this is a compliment, that your son is much better than those around him and the coach is trying to spread the wealth so that other kids get a chance. Again, if it was a competitive league and there was a lot riding on his stats, then you should speak up, but it sounds like this is just a recreational thing for fun. If you'd like to invest more in his basketball "career" as it were, you should look into other leagues that do keep score and keep kids with their own age groups, but I see this as more of a fun activity.

Even into high school, if my swim team was really crushing another team, or if I was racing against someone that my coach knew was much slower, we would put in our second or third string swimmers, or my coach would come to me and tell me that I could "take it easy and just make sure I beat them at the end". It was taught to me that it was bad sportsmanship to "crush" your competition and they wanted everyone to have a chance to get their moment in the spotlight.

To summarize, if competitive sports are important, then you need to find an organized team that is serious about the rules, regulations, and competitive side of it, but if you're looking for all of those things in a fun league that doesn't keep score and just aims and teaching kids the fun of basketball, then you should lower your expectations. Remember, your kid is GOOD, they just want other kids to get a chance to play as well.

Hmmm, I didn't read this as a competitive thing. But Yenny's son is being singled out for being different- in this case a better player, which is arguably the best reason to be singled out- and humiliated in front of his team. By someone who is NOT the coach. This is the opposite of a fun, team building environment to me. If no one is keeping score, then it shouldn't matter who does what on the court as long as everyone gets to play; I don't think it's right or nice to handcuff a child (a second grader!) in a game. As much as we can recognize, as adults, that it is in fact a compliment, it will be seen an felt as a punishment by the child.

Exactly aviastar...sonny, you've missed the point completely. This isn't about wanting it to be ok for my son to be competitive. I could care less about that. It's that he's being disciplined for trying his best and hustling on the court...and, it's done publicly to boot!

 

[aviastar]

Hey Yenny,

I'll give you my opinion from a tough love perspective

If your son was in high school and potentially looking at getting scholarships for his talents, then you better believe you'd have every right to be upset and contact the coach and tell them that you want your kid getting as much court time as possible.... BUT... you are playing on a team of 1st and 2nd graders and you said that they don't even keep score because they want to encourage team work.

The truth is, and this is a compliment, that your son is much better than those around him and the coach is trying to spread the wealth so that other kids get a chance. Again, if it was a competitive league and there was a lot riding on his stats, then you should speak up, but it sounds like this is just a recreational thing for fun. If you'd like to invest more in his basketball "career" as it were, you should look into other leagues that do keep score and keep kids with their own age groups, but I see this as more of a fun activity.

Even into high school, if my swim team was really crushing another team, or if I was racing against someone that my coach knew was much slower, we would put in our second or third string swimmers, or my coach would come to me and tell me that I could "take it easy and just make sure I beat them at the end". It was taught to me that it was bad sportsmanship to "crush" your competition and they wanted everyone to have a chance to get their moment in the spotlight.

To summarize, if competitive sports are important, then you need to find an organized team that is serious about the rules, regulations, and competitive side of it, but if you're looking for all of those things in a fun league that doesn't keep score and just aims and teaching kids the fun of basketball, then you should lower your expectations. Remember, your kid is GOOD, they just want other kids to get a chance to play as well.

Hmmm, I didn't read this as a competitive thing. But Yenny's son is being singled out for being different- in this case a better player, which is arguably the best reason to be singled out- and humiliated in front of his team. By someone who is NOT the coach. This is the opposite of a fun, team building environment to me. If no one is keeping score, then it shouldn't matter who does what on the court as long as everyone gets to play; I don't think it's right or nice to handcuff a child (a second grader!) in a game. As much as we can recognize, as adults, that it is in fact a compliment, it will be seen an felt as a punishment by the child.

I agree with you that the child will still consider it a punishment, and I'm not agreeing that it's fair (I am really quite opposed to "participation medals" and things like that for the sake of making everyone feel like a "winner"). What I am saying is that if she wants to put her DS into an environment where his skills are honed and valued, then an exhibition league where there is no score isn't really the best way to do it. If that's the goal, then more organized teams are the answer. I apologize about the confusion. I saw that "Frank" was the head of the basketball program and assumed that meant the coach.

Completely agree; nothing wrong with figuring out where the priority is and making your decisions to achieve those goals!!

 

[yennyfire]

Thanks ame and rosebloom. Your advice is good...going in with the plan to understand Frank's perspective is good, even if in the end, I may not agree with him. And you're right...a mad mama bear can't protect her cubs in the most productive way possible. Thanks for the gentle reminder.

 

[sonnyjane]

Hey Yenny,

I'll give you my opinion from a tough love perspective

If your son was in high school and potentially looking at getting scholarships for his talents, then you better believe you'd have every right to be upset and contact the coach and tell them that you want your kid getting as much court time as possible.... BUT... you are playing on a team of 1st and 2nd graders and you said that they don't even keep score because they want to encourage team work.

The truth is, and this is a compliment, that your son is much better than those around him and the coach is trying to spread the wealth so that other kids get a chance. Again, if it was a competitive league and there was a lot riding on his stats, then you should speak up, but it sounds like this is just a recreational thing for fun. If you'd like to invest more in his basketball "career" as it were, you should look into other leagues that do keep score and keep kids with their own age groups, but I see this as more of a fun activity.

Even into high school, if my swim team was really crushing another team, or if I was racing against someone that my coach knew was much slower, we would put in our second or third string swimmers, or my coach would come to me and tell me that I could "take it easy and just make sure I beat them at the end". It was taught to me that it was bad sportsmanship to "crush" your competition and they wanted everyone to have a chance to get their moment in the spotlight.

To summarize, if competitive sports are important, then you need to find an organized team that is serious about the rules, regulations, and competitive side of it, but if you're looking for all of those things in a fun league that doesn't keep score and just aims and teaching kids the fun of basketball, then you should lower your expectations. Remember, your kid is GOOD, they just want other kids to get a chance to play as well.

Hmmm, I didn't read this as a competitive thing. But Yenny's son is being singled out for being different- in this case a better player, which is arguably the best reason to be singled out- and humiliated in front of his team. By someone who is NOT the coach. This is the opposite of a fun, team building environment to me. If no one is keeping score, then it shouldn't matter who does what on the court as long as everyone gets to play; I don't think it's right or nice to handcuff a child (a second grader!) in a game. As much as we can recognize, as adults, that it is in fact a compliment, it will be seen an felt as a punishment by the child.

Exactly aviastar...sonny, you've missed the point completely. This isn't about wanting it to be ok for my son to be competitive. I could care less about that. It's that he's being disciplined for trying his best and hustling on the court...and, it's done publicly to boot!

Sorry I think my use of the word "competitive" is giving the wrong connotation. I use it to mean more structured, more organized. I'm trying to think of another example but can't. I guess what I was saying was that I totally agree with you that it's not fair to punish him for being good. I'm just not sure what more you can expect given that this isn't "that kind" of league. For example, the parents of the 1st graders that have absolutely no experience playing probably love this league because their kids can run up and down the court and be afraid of the ball, as you said, and still feel like valuable members of a team at the end of the day From their perspective, it might be a great thing that their kids are getting so much court time because your son and the other second graders don't have all the attention, etc. I'm not saying that's right, simply that they may have joined a league like this because they liked that it wasn't emphasizing talent, necessarily.

I liked your suggestion of telling them to separate the kids into like age groups. That would probably solve your problem since it sounds like all the boys this guys singled out are in 2nd grade.

 

[yennyfire]

Thanks sonny. We are on the same page.

 

[iLander]

It sounds like your son would be better off on a more challenging team. He obviously has skills and ability, why waste them there? There must be something in your town's recreation center or something. I think he'd enjoy playing with other kids more on his level.

 

[yennyfire]

I agree with you iLander and next year, we will definitely move to another league. However, what do I do about the next 5 weeks? We have never let our kids quit something mid way through and I don't think doing so in this case sets a good example, but clearly, things can't continue this way for the next 5 weeks...

 

[Rosebloom]

I agree with you iLander and next year, we will definitely move to another league. However, what do I do about the next 5 weeks? We have never let our kids quit something mid way through and I don't think doing so in this case sets a good example, but clearly, things can't continue this way for the next 5 weeks...

I actually don't think there's anything wrong with quitting. Don't go on and on to your son about what an idiot Frank is, but just state that you disagree with the policy and that your son is welcome to take a break for the rest of this session if he wants. Obviously your son is motivated and a good person. He won't become a slacker or disrespectful if you drop out. In fact I think it might teach him two very valuable lessons: that sometimes adults make mistakes and that you greatly value his happiness. Instead shoot hoops at home and have ice cream sundays afterwards. Go see a pro game as a family. Pile on the sofa with brownies and popcorn to watch your alma matter play. Sports are supposed to be fun at this age and if they're stressful and embarrassing, they may do more harm than good.

Of course you know your kids best and will absolutely make the right decision for them. But I just wanted to offer that as a perfectly acceptable (in my book!) solution.

 

[yennyfire]

I agree with you iLander and next year, we will definitely move to another league. However, what do I do about the next 5 weeks? We have never let our kids quit something mid way through and I don't think doing so in this case sets a good example, but clearly, things can't continue this way for the next 5 weeks...

I actually don't think there's anything wrong with quitting. Don't go on and on to your son about what an idiot Frank is, but just state that you disagree with the policy and that your son is welcome to take a break for the rest of this session if he wants. Obviously your son is motivated and a good person. He won't become a slacker or disrespectful if you drop out. In fact I think it might teach him two very valuable lessons: that sometimes adults make mistakes and that you greatly value his happiness. Instead shoot hoops at home and have ice cream sundays afterwards. Go see a pro game as a family. Pile on the sofa with brownies and popcorn to watch your alma matter play. Sports are supposed to be fun at this age and if they're stressful and embarrassing, they may do more harm than good.

Of course you know your kids best and will absolutely make the right decision for them. But I just wanted to offer that as a perfectly acceptable (in my book!) solution.

Rosebloom, you made me lol! If my son reads this, he's going to want you to adopt him! Ice cream sundaes and brownies are what he lives for! That's a good perspective. I think you make some very good points. Having my son know that adults make mistakes and that no matter what, I'm on his side is really important. I told him that after Frank's speech at the game, but giving him the choice to finish the season may have more impact than my words.

Good heavens, why is parenting so hard??!!!

 

[Rosebloom]

"Ice cream sundaes and brownies are what he lives for!"

He and I both!

"Good heavens, why is parenting so hard??!!!"

NO KIDDING! I'm trying to choose a preschool for next year. We have two incredible choices and you'd think I had been tasked with curing cancer for all the stress it has caused me!

 

[iheartscience]

I totally agree with you that this guy is out of line. I also excelled in sports (without being a ball hog) and once my gym teacher called my mother in for a parent/teacher conference and told her I was too competitive. My mom told her that if I were a boy they would never be having that conversation, and that she wasn't going to tell me to stop trying hard when I played sports. The gym teacher actually agreed and backed down.

Your son should NOT be punished just because he's better than the other kids, particularly if he's a team player. Not letting him shoot at all for half a game is ridiculous and is stunting your son's ability to grow as an athlete, which is the entire point of this league, right? Additionally, talking to your son in that way in front of the other players is out of line.

I agree that sometimes it is okay to quit, and I would talk to your son and ask him what he wants to do. Additionally, I would set up a meeting with the coach and Frank and discuss the issue. You can make the decision whether to pull your son out after that discussion.

And it definitely sounds like a more competitive league will be perfect for your son. Do they have AAU for kids that young? My friends who played competitive basketball did AAU when we were kids but I don't remember if they were that young.

 

[yennyfire]

"Ice cream sundaes and brownies are what he lives for!"

He and I both!

"Good heavens, why is parenting so hard??!!!"

NO KIDDING! I'm trying to choose a preschool for next year. We have two incredible choices and you'd think I had been tasked with curing cancer for all the stress it has caused me!

Yeah, I have agonized over all of these kinds of decisions/crossroads. I guess it's so hard because we love our kids and want to do what's best for them. However, without a crystal ball, all you can do is weigh the info before you and take a leap of faith that you've made the right choice for your child. Sadly, I don't think it gets any easier as they get older.

Thanks for sharing your perspective thing. Good for your Mom for standing up for you! I'll have to look up the league you mentioned, as I'm not familiar with it.

 

[Kaleigh]

I would finish out the season and be looking for a more challenging team for him next year. This coach isn't one I would want to mentor my kids.... 2nd grade is soooo young, so you want them to be around positive people and also know not everyone is a winner and it takes hard work. Balance in other words.. Best of luck. Let us know how it works out..

 

[yennyfire]

Thanks Kaleigh!

 

[JewelFreak]

Will interfering help your son in the long run, Yenny? Life isn't always fair; 2nd grade is old enough to begin learning that we find a way to deal with it. Perhaps the most valuable lesson any person gets & it takes us a lifetime to learn it.

Even when life is fair, we don't always like how we're affected. Frank -- maybe the coach too -- sees "fair" as giving each kid time with the ball -- building confidence. An adult may look back with gratitude: "I was afraid of the ball, but that guy made me get out & run with it until I realized how much fun it was. Wonderful lesson." Better players must sacrifice -- but it is only a version of primary-school gym class.

It's only 5 weeks, for heaven's sake, not a lifetime. Handling this situation for 5 more "games" could teach your son something much more valuable for the rest of his life than holding the ball longer will give him pleasure. Or mommy fixing things he can fix.

My brother had a grade-school English teacher notorious for being demanding. He was awful in English & didn't care, & she was hard on him, trying to pull more from him. He whined that she picked on him, begged to be transferred to another class. My parents told him -- "Yes, she's a strict teacher. Life hands us tough relationships sometimes. Figure out how to get along with her because you'll have many more similar experiences all your life. It's only till June, not forever. You'll be a better person for it." He did and he was. This sounds like one of those moments.

--- Laurie

 

[ForteKitty]

Did the other parents complain or something?

 

[yennyfire]

Will interfering help your son in the long run, Yenny? Life isn't always fair; 2nd grade is old enough to begin learning that we find a way to deal with it. Perhaps the most valuable lesson any person gets & it takes us a lifetime to learn it.

Even when life is fair, we don't always like how we're affected. Frank -- maybe the coach too -- sees "fair" as giving each kid time with the ball -- building confidence. An adult may look back with gratitude: "I was afraid of the ball, but that guy made me get out & run with it until I realized how much fun it was. Wonderful lesson." Better players must sacrifice -- but it is only a version of primary-school gym class.

It's only 5 weeks, for heaven's sake, not a lifetime. Handling this situation for 5 more "games" could teach your son something much more valuable for the rest of his life than holding the ball longer will give him pleasure. Or mommy fixing things he can fix.

My brother had a grade-school English teacher notorious for being demanding. He was awful in English & didn't care, & she was hard on him, trying to pull more from him. He whined that she picked on him, begged to be transferred to another class. My parents told him -- "Yes, she's a strict teacher. Life hands us tough relationships sometimes. Figure out how to get along with her because you'll have many more similar experiences all your life. It's only till June, not forever. You'll be a better person for it." He did and he was. This sounds like one of those moments.

--- Laurie

You make some interesting points Laurie, though I think your tone is uncalled for and you have missed the fact that ALL OF THE KIDS ARE GETTING EQUAL TIME ON THE COURT. The more skilled kids are passing the ball to the less skilled kids whenever they are open. If they are not open, passing the ball towards them won't result in them getting more time with the ball, since someone from the other team will get it. Doesn't that defeat the purpose?

Life certainly isn't always fair and an 8 year old is old enough to begin learning that, I agree. Whether it's 5 weeks or 5 months, it's how the message is perceived that matters to me.

FK, yes, the other parents complained too. It's not that any of us disagree that the stronger players can't be told to make every effort to pass to the less experienced players (which they do....I swear, I'm going to track that this Saturday and come up with a % of how often each kid is passed the ball), it's HOW the message was conveyed that we have such a problem with....

I see the other side, as Nate has been on some teams where he's one of the weaker players. I never begrudged the stronger players the fact that they got more playing time on the field/court, nor did Nate. He just worked harder and kept practicing and eventually, he got better. I don't see anything wrong with that (isn't that a positive message?). And, since I sit with the other parents who are on our team, I know that no one is bent out of shape about who makes more baskets. Frank took it upon himself to cause an issue and he didn't handle it well. THAT is my problem. Period.

 

[minousbijoux]

Yenny, I have read this thread with great interest. I'm not sure, but it seems to me that the issue is not what Frank said, but how he said it, is that right?

My younger son has always loved and excelled at soccer. Like you, we taught him to have fun, be team oriented and share the ball. I know exactly what you mean by the kids who cover their heads when someone passes to them; my son had those same guys on his first soccer team (he also had kids who'd sit down in the middle of the field and pick grass, others who would suddenly begin to practice "karate," those who would carry on conversations with friends or parents on the sideline, completely forgetting they were in the middle of the game - you get the general idea and am sure you've seen it all on your son's team). When there were awkward times - say our team was winning by a lot, or those kids who were afraid of the ball would keep giving it back to my son to avoid contact with it - the coach would say something gentle to the other kids to encourage them, and then would up the ante on kids like my son, saying something like "for the rest of this game, I'd like you to practice one touch and pass instead of shooting." At no time was my son ever made to feel "wrong" for his abilities and talents. We were lucky to have a really loving coach; the best single moment of that team was watching the first time one of the fearful kids (almost inadvertently) scored a goal. The whole team, of course including all the parents, erupted in cheers and applause. We probably looked unsportsmanlike to the other team for cheering so much for a goal, but no one on the other team knew the significance of that one goal. Talk about a teachable moment! The kids, definitely including my son, were thrilled that this one guy had scored!

Anyway, I too agree that maybe you should try and talk to Frank. If we give him the benefit of the doubt, he's (hopefully) heading up the basketball program because he likes bball and he likes kids, right? So maybe he's a gruff old blow hard who means well and forgets to use his "talking to kids skills." Or maybe he means well and just doesn't have the skills to talk to a kid. The important thing (I would think) is to feel him out for what his intention was. Perhaps it really was to shame your son (Oh Lord, please let him not be one of those), but I hope its that he is not aware of how he came across and if he knew he ended up making your son and the other kids feel wrong for their abilities, he himself would feel bad and want to apologize. Its definitely worth a gentle conversation with him to see what he was trying to achieve.

As to what Laurie said, I totally agree with that as well. We are all colored by our own experiences so take this with a grain of salt. I am in the middle of reading a book on parenting by Madeline Levine called the "The Price of Privilege" which is about exactly what Laurie described - those teachable moments in life and allowing kids to learn from them. It turns out that studies are now showing that the greatest depression rates, rates of family alienation, and drug use are middle and upper middle class kids. Why? Because, studies show that throughout their lives, parents often solved problems for them instead of allowing the kids to learn how to handle it, or just get through it, on their own. Forced to deal with it themselves, while having supportive parents on the sidelines, teaches them resiliency and reinforces the notion that "this too shall pass." Stepping in to save them does not teach the ability to bounce back or reinforce the notion that sometimes bad stuff happens but then it gets better again; instead it teaches them "thank God I have Mom and Dad to get me through this and without them, where would I be?"

Yenny, I am not trying to say that this applies at all to your situation, but it is something to keep in mind. I don't typically share this, but I do think there are parallels, particularly with Laurie's tie-in, so wanted to bring it up. My teenage son is now in rehab for drug use - as you can imagine, as his Mom, it breaks my heart. He is the oldest of my two and for whatever reason - maybe because he is my oldest and I felt more vulnerable as a first time mom - I always felt that he was sensitive and I needed to protect him. I am not a looney tune Mom, but have always been proud of myself as an active, hands on and practical and very loving, Mom. Yes, my son had learning disabilities (the inattentive form of ADHD) and pyschological issues (depression and anxiety) that went undetected during his adolescence and led him to feel bad enough about himself that he turned to cannabis. And maybe there is absolutely nothing I could've done differently that would've changed the outcome. But I do know, now reading her book, that I did fight for my son with all his teachers/coaches/camp counselors and I did tend to try and save him from whatever tough situations he was in. I really thought that's what good moms do and that I was helping him grow. Now I wonder if he wouldn't have gained more confidence if he had gotten himself out of these tight situations - at least he would've gained resilience. I don't know, I'm just ruminating here...

Anyway, only you can assess whether this Frank guy is reasonable (yet too gruff with kids) or a complete jerk. If he is reasonable, he should be willing to have a follow up conversation with your son and the others where he explains that it was not meant as any kind of punishment and that he's sorry...I hope he is a good sensible guy underneath his blowhard exterior.

Big hugs to you - I am sorry that Nate - and you - have to go through this!

 

[yennyfire]

Yes, minous...you are exactly correct. I agree entirely that this whole episode *could* have been positive, with good outcomes for both my son and the other kids on the team.

This is our third year playing basketball at this church and one of the reasons we like it is because it's non-competitive and the parents we meet aren't the crazed type who hire private batting/pitching/dribbling coaches for their 6 year olds. We have always been part of teams that sound similar to your son's soccer team, where the kids support one another and are so happy when one of their teamates succeeds at something that has been challenging in the past. I think that's why this whole thing has been so hard to process. None of the kids or their parents are "glory hogs" and they enjoy playing because they love basketball. Not once have I heard any of the kids say "hey, you have the ball more than I do" or "you missed 4 shots, you stink". They all seem to be nice kids with good attitudes and this whole thing with Frank was unecessary.

I also agree with you 150% that many parents today want to fix things for their kids and that kids don't learn to solve their own problems. I've seen it on the playground since my kids were old enough to toddle. The first hint of a raised voice and parents go running over to intervene. I'm not saying I've never stepped in when I see a child hit another child (case in point, my daughter, who is the exact opposite of my son!), but I make an effort to let my kids work things out on their own, for exactly the reasons you mention. My son had a really difficult teacher last year and he was having trouble because she was a yeller and he thought that she was angry at him, when she was yelling to get the class under control (of course, yelling was never going to get the class under control, but that's another story). I encouraged him to go talk to her and tell her that her yelling upset him. It didn't make a great big difference, but at least he felt he'd been pro-active.

So, I see Laurie's point and I agree with the message she was sending, but the delivery was a bit rude. As a parent, there are times to step in and times to step back. I have never intervened on my son's behalf before whether it be school or extra curricular activities, if that tells you how much this upset me. If my kid were the kind who had a tendency to dominate a game or be insensitive to other kids, I'd be the first to step in and tell him that I thought he needed to take a step back and dial things down a notch. However, that couldn't be further from the truth, which is why I think it bothered me so much.

Minous, I know that it wasn't easy to share your experience with your son. I am sorry that you are both going through this. It sounds like you're a great Mom and that your son is lucky to have you in his corner. I hope that he is able to find the strength he needs to overcome his addiction, knowing that you will be there to support him.

 

[minousbijoux]

Yenny: thanks for your generous response. It sounds like you are much farther along on the parent awareness train than I was at this age! Anyway, I will be keeping you and Nate in my thoughts and wishing that Frank comes through with an explanation and apology for what he said. If not, then yes, its unfortunately a teachable moment about how not all grownups should have the jobs they have, I guess!

 

[yennyfire]

Minous, let's just say that I know from experience. My parents NEVER let me fail and when I did for the first time as a young adult, I nearly didn't recover from it emotionally (and like ame mentioned in her post about bullying, this experience has greatly impacted who I am today). So while teaching your kids to fail gracefully isn't exactly the same as this, I am very conscious about how the decisions about what may seem like small things to me now can have a big impact later on. Of course, I'm confident that I'm making a whole other slew of mistakes, so my kids will be just as screwed up as everybody elses, lol!

Thanks for your kindness and support. I guess that parenting (no matter how old your kids are) never gets any easier....

 

[JewelFreak]

Yenny, I meant absolutely no rudeness & re-reading my post, still don't see any. A bit of emphasis, but certainly nothing unpleasant intended or said, that I can see. Sorry you are offended. I am impressed with your feelings expressed in your next post that you feel it's important to let your kids figure out their own problems when it makes sense to do so -- as you mentioned, so many parents do too much out of the same love that tells you they develop better coping skills when allowed to cope, themselves. That was what I was trying to say, but you said it better. I hope everything works out well for all of you!

---Laurie