Vent about outsourcing!

[janinegirly]

Ugh, just got off the phone with "customer service" of my personal bank which has actually been outsourced to India. Took 50 minutes to get my address changed which I actually took care of a year ago! I repeatedly see a decline in customer service in the corporations which have outsourced as much as possible offshore. My own company outsourced our payroll and benefits department! I get that it saves costs, but really dilutes the quality of the product..SEVERELY, at least in my experience. Not to mention it's the reason why there are fewer jobs here.

I don't get why no one ever talks about this (the media/politicians) and instead goes after the usual suspects.

Ok vent done...hope it doesn't fall under "political" comments

 

[LilyKat]

I have to agree. Customer service (particularly by telephone) is about communication, and it goes pretty much without saying that communication is better between people who share a first language, cultural background, and live in the same country. I don''t think it''s a "political" comment. Heck, we''ve just ordered our wedding rings from Blue Nile, and lovely as they were, it was an ordeal getting the (very nice) American salesperson from Seattle to understand our British addresses!

There is a time and place for outsourcing - I just don''t think customer service is ideal for it.

 

[janinegirly]

Agree. If the process was seamless I wouldn''t care where the person was located, but it ususally is not! Usually alot of confusion and long wait times over the phone and very robotic responses because the training was all about canned responses rather than tailored to the person''s concern/questions/issue.

I also am bothered by very specific and complicated functions being outsourced like payroll and benefits. For example if I have a tax question related to payroll, can someone following a script 10K miles away reallly understand? And when I ask to speak to a manager that person is also located in a competely separate part of the world from the person I initially spoke with. It also has done some siginficant damage in terms of job opportunities here in the US at least.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

I think buying eng. rings from Blue Nile in Seattle is different than dealing with a bank who outsources in India because Blue Nile is *AMERICAN* and set up in America. *You* chose to deal outside your country, Janinegirly did not.

 

[Shoopy]

The problem with outsourcing is that due to the lack of an appropriate corporate representative in these places, the employees have to have a step by step guide on each process to minimize the risk of errors. And the employees are required to go through each step. So what seems like a simple process of changing an address for you can actually be a 3 page, 45 step process for them. Things that seem logical to skip over they do not because they have to follow the process.

Even a simple question like "what is your name" can be 4 steps:

1. What is your first name? Janine
2. Spell your first name: J A N I N E
3. What is your last name? Girly
4. Spell your last name: G I R L Y

When they could have just said "Spell your first and last name please"

KWIM?

 

[kama_s]

I agree fully. A very Canadian company recently moved their CS to India as well (I can''t mention who, because the news hasn''t been released yet - but my close friend''s husband headed the move) and honestly, I was so bloody upset about it. People are complaining about the economy, loss of jobs etc etc....only for some of the bigger companies moving CS teams to maximize profit.

 

[LilyKat]

Date: 2/2/2010 11:21:10 AM
Author: MC
I think buying eng. rings from Blue Nile in Seattle is different than dealing with a bank who outsources in India because Blue Nile is *AMERICAN* and set up in America. *You* chose to deal outside your country, Janinegirly did not.

MC, I think you missed the point. I was using it as an example of why communication over the telephone is difficult with ANYONE from a different language/cultural background (even if that's something as simple as accent and not knowing geographical areas). It's just that these sort of comments can often be construed as racist/singling out people from developing countries, which is one reason why politicians tend to shy away from them. I was trying to show that's not the case.

It was no offence at all to Blue Nile, who were awesome! (Though incidentally, we chose to deal with Blue Nile UK, it's just that if the UK branch are busy, they "outsource" their calls to their base in Seattle

)

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 2/2/2010 11:26:31 AM
Author: LilyKat

Date: 2/2/2010 11:21:10 AM
Author: MC
I think buying eng. rings from Blue Nile in Seattle is different than dealing with a bank who outsources in India because Blue Nile is *AMERICAN* and set up in America. *You* chose to deal outside your country, Janinegirly did not.

It's just that these sort of comments can often be construed as racist/singling out people from developing countries, which is one reason why politicians tend to shy away from them. I was trying to show that's not the case.

It was no offence at all to Blue Nile, who were awesome! (Though incidentally, we chose to deal with Blue Nile UK, it's just that if the UK branch are busy, they 'outsource' their calls to their base in Seattle

)

Air America talked about outsourcing in many of their radio segments, so I'm use to hearing people debate this stuff, even if it's not by politicians but by people who believe this discussion doesn't cross the line of political correctness. Unfortunetly they're filing ch. 7. but progressive channels, like AM 1090, in Seattle, still have individuals who have the guts to say it all and you can listen them online (if you can understand what they're saying.

)

 

[LilyKat]

Date: 2/2/2010 11:35:26 AM
Author: MC

Date: 2/2/2010 11:26:31 AM

Author: LilyKat

Date: 2/2/2010 11:21:10 AM

Author: MC

I think buying eng. rings from Blue Nile in Seattle is different than dealing with a bank who outsources in India because Blue Nile is *AMERICAN* and set up in America. *You* chose to deal outside your country, Janinegirly did not.

It''s just that these sort of comments can often be construed as racist/singling out people from developing countries, which is one reason why politicians tend to shy away from them. I was trying to show that''s not the case.


It was no offence at all to Blue Nile, who were awesome! (Though incidentally, we chose to deal with Blue Nile UK, it''s just that if the UK branch are busy, they ''outsource'' their calls to their base in Seattle

)

Air America talked about outsourcing in many of their radio segments, so I''m use to hearing people debate this stuff, even if it''s not by politicians but by people who believe this discussion doesn''t cross the line of political correctness. Unfortunetly they''re filing ch. 7. but progressive channels, like AM 1090, in Seattle, still have individuals who have the guts to say it all and you can listen them online (if you can understand what they''re saying.

)

I probably wouldn''t. I''m kind of stupid.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 2/2/2010 11:45:26 AM
Author: LilyKat


I probably wouldn''t. I''m kind of stupid.

hahaha I''m in Seattle and will defend BN to the bitter end.

 

[rierie26]

I agree that sometimes speaking with someone overseas can be frustrating, esp. when there''s a bad, crackly connection (those are the worst). I''ve noticed though that even when I call customer service lines with representatives based here in the US the service has gone severely downhill. I mean just awful, apathetic and sometimes downright rude. I guess customer service just isn''t what it used to be.

 

[TravelingGal]

I agree that getting someone on the other line who in a foreign country is frustrating. But having been on the other end, I do have a different perspective.

I''ve never been in Customer Service. But recently when I was visiting the corporate office, we got to spend time listening in on customer service calls. We have a great CS team, but also outsource. Your are given menu options and the "easier" calls get sent to India. The more complex ones get routed in house. However, this doesn''t mean that everything gets routed correctly.

Some of the people calling in are bonafide idiots. They want to know where their serial number is. On the manual is the response. Where''s the manual? In the box. I don''t see the manual? It''s there in the box and is X thick. Hm, OK, lemme see...there are lots of papers here - is this it? Sir, what does "it" look like?

And so on.

In our business, there are some very complex questions that do need technical support/CS but when our very limited and well paid team get questions like the one above, it bogs down the entire system. Customers get mad because the hold times are longer. And you start losing customers. So the decision is made to filter those types of questions to India or whatever, where they can answer them. It may be frustrating to the customer, but at least the wait times aren''t long and they get their answers.

At the top of every company are the bean counters. Customer service calls are logged by time spent on call, and then they analyze how much each call is costing. Then they do their darndest to reduce that cost because very few companies today are about quality customer service. Most companies these days are about staying afloat and that means cutting costs.

Of course, the plebs are never happy about how they choose to do it. We recently had cost cutting measures that included no more free coffee or tea. Now, I have NEVER been in a company that doesn''t offer free coffee. Part of me thinks, well, MAYBE if you make your execs fly coach, we could save some money there? But no, it doesn''t work that way.

But I''m off tangent, aren''t I? Good thing I work from home so I guess I''ll take a break to get my "free" coffee.

 

[LadyBlue]

Date: 2/2/2010 12:02:29 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Most companies these days are about staying afloat and that means cutting costs.

DITTO

 

[janinegirly]

Thanks for sharing your perspective TGAL.

I agree it seems quality is no longer the goal of customer service, or at least doesn't seem to be. Outsourcing cuts costs no doubt. But at a hefty price (lost jobs and lowered customer satisfcation...in general).

I guess my experience has typically been to either (a) have something take far longer than it should (request for address change for example) or (b) inablity to answer question at which point I give up and therefore make decisions with incomplete knowledge or (c) give me the wrong information but due to "customer service" being a sprawling global call center there is no way to track who gave the original information.

In my case my questions are typically personal (bank acount questions, payroll etc) so there needs to be some level of personal interaction and an ablity to "respond" on the spot. I am the type of customer who reads all the information first and if I can't find my answer, THEN I call. So I guess I'm an educated consumer before I call...which makes it all the more frustrating.

I do get the purpose of it and can see that there are frustrations on the others side too though. Still it seems to be a disturbing trend (deteriorating quality of service) which could cause a fall out or backlash effect. There are initiatives out there to tax companies who choose this option..but we'lll see if it goes anywhere.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 2/2/2010 12:02:29 PM
Author: TravelingGal
At the top of every company are the bean counters. Customer service calls are logged by time spent on call, and then they analyze how much each call is costing. Then they do their darndest to reduce that cost because very few companies today are about quality customer service. Most companies these days are about staying afloat and that means cutting costs.

When I was in college (age 19 or so), I worked PT in catalogue sales in C/S and they timed our calls back then. I''d be sitting there and next thing I knew a supervisor would walk up and announce he/she had been listening and timing my call. It was annoying because the customers would call in with detailed questions and go on and on asking about the quality of the fabric and we had a sample store and I''d go check the fabric, then come back and be repremanded for taking so long rather than respected for taking the time to thoroughly answer questions.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Several years ago I did consulting for technology companies. At the time, large communications companies outsourcing their customer service was a hot topic. A few other consultants and I produce a very in-depth report on the "real" costs of outsourcing which included dozens of hours of interviews with COOs at major communications companies. The bottom line was that in many cases, a customer will need to call back 3+ times in order to resolve an issue, which virtually eliminated any cost-savings to the customer. I don''t remember the math--I think that each call made to a U.S.-based customer service center averaged out to be around a dollar after taking into account several factors (length of average call, cost of service, salary of employee, etc.) while each overseas call was a bit less than half--say $0.40. As I mentioned, repeat calls for the SAME issue skyrocketed with the outsourced CS centers, which ultimately cost the company more. And that doesn''t even include attrition from very frustrated customers, which is any company''s biggest fear since that is future profit that is lost.

I know of many companies that have adopted a tiered system. If your issue cannot be resolved in a timely manner, then you are automatically forwarded to a U.S. based customer service center with better-trained employees who can usually resolve more complicated issues and the customer is much less frustrated. While it''s not perfect, I think it probably makes the most sense since a large percentage of customers who call do have simple questions that can be resolved quickly. Then again, Janinegirly''s issue was very simple and it still took 45 minutes to resolve, which isn''t good for Janinegirly OR the company.

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Janinegirly, I agree 100% . . . this is SOOOO annoying!!!

But what drives me even crazier is when I call a US-based company and their automated answering system asks me to "Press 1 to continue this call in English." WTF?!?! I should NOT have to press ANYTHING to continue this call in English . . . that should just HAPPEN!!! I totally understand offering the option of "Press 2 to continue this call in Spanish" or something to that effect, but I don''t get why we have to make a special selection to make the call continue in English when it was answered in English in the first place.

I''ve often wondered what happens if you don''t press anything at that point in the call? What do they do, automatically change the language to Swahili or Tagalog or something like that?

 

[Shoopy]

Date: 2/2/2010 12:50:20 PM
Author: Irishgrrrl
Janinegirly, I agree 100% . . . this is SOOOO annoying!!!

But what drives me even crazier is when I call a US-based company and their automated answering system asks me to ''Press 1 to continue this call in English.'' WTF?!?! I should NOT have to press ANYTHING to continue this call in English . . . that should just HAPPEN!!! I totally understand offering the option of ''Press 2 to continue this call in Spanish'' or something to that effect, but I don''t get why we have to make a special selection to make the call continue in English when it was answered in English in the first place.

I''ve often wondered what happens if you don''t press anything at that point in the call? What do they do, automatically change the language to Swahili or Tagalog or something like that?

It depends on the system they are using for routing calls. Some you can press a button for another language and if you press nothing, it continues on. Others require A button to be pressed before moving on. It''s a system issue. That''s all.

And I''m sure this doesn''t have to be said but US doesn''t have an official language so technically, they aren''t doing anything wrong

 

[Irishgrrrl]

Date: 2/2/2010 12:53:05 PM
Author: fiery

It depends on the system they are using for routing calls. Some you can press a button for another language and if you press nothing, it continues on. Others require A button to be pressed before moving on. It''s a system issue. That''s all.

And I''m sure this doesn''t have to be said but US doesn''t have an official language so technically, they aren''t doing anything wrong

Although English may not be the US''s official language, it is the language spoken by the vast majority of the population. Also, the call was answered in English, soooo . . .

Just sayin!

 

[janinegirly]

Date: 2/2/2010 12:26:26 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady
Several years ago I did consulting for technology companies. At the time, large communications companies outsourcing their customer service was a hot topic. A few other consultants and I produce a very in-depth report on the ''real'' costs of outsourcing which included dozens of hours of interviews with COOs at major communications companies. The bottom line was that in many cases, a customer will need to call back 3+ times in order to resolve an issue, which virtually eliminated any cost-savings to the customer. I don''t remember the math--I think that each call made to a U.S.-based customer service center averaged out to be around a dollar after taking into account several factors (length of average call, cost of service, salary of employee, etc.) while each overseas call was a bit less than half--say $0.40. As I mentioned, repeat calls for the SAME issue skyrocketed with the outsourced CS centers, which ultimately cost the company more. And that doesn''t even include attrition from very frustrated customers, which is any company''s biggest fear since that is future profit that is lost.

I know of many companies that have adopted a tiered system. If your issue cannot be resolved in a timely manner, then you are automatically forwarded to a U.S. based customer service center with better-trained employees who can usually resolve more complicated issues and the customer is much less frustrated. While it''s not perfect, I think it probably makes the most sense since a large percentage of customers who call do have simple questions that can be resolved quickly. Then again, Janinegirly''s issue was very simple and it still took 45 minutes to resolve, which isn''t good for Janinegirly OR the company.

The tiered system makes sense and so do the results of your consulting efforts! However I haven''t really seen the tiered system yet--but hope that it gains popularity. I try to avoid calling "customer service" centers I know are outsourced since it usually does not go well and I just get red faced and frustrated!

In this case, it was 20 mins on hold, interaction with customer rep who was condescending and gave wrong information (told me to do something which had already been done), I requested a manager and I was told I needed to be transferred to "address change center". I once again requested a manager, was kept on hold for some time and transferred to the "address change center" (ie not a manager). They re-requested all my personal information (10 mins) and did whatever they do to take care of address updating--(I THINK) at which point I still requested a manager to voice my discontent. Transferred to automated wait line (ie customer service where I started) so I gave up and hung up.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Oh my gosh, JG, what a SERIOUS pain in the dupah! I would have hung up, too. After giving all of your personal information twice, being transferred twice (after 20 minutes on hold) and not being able to talk with a manager, I would have had enough. See, this is why it's not cost effective for them at all. They wasted all of that time for a simple request and it's STILL not taken care of. Pus they have an annoyed custumer (which is justified).

 

[Maisie]

I get in my car and drive to my local bank rather than call the telephone number for customer service. My bank outsourced to India a while back and it drives me nuts trying to make myself understood.

 

[FancyDiamond]

If my bank outsources to some place where the representative is difficult to understand, wastes my time with trivial questions, or asks me for sensitive/personal information, I''ll change bank. The bean counters can keep their stupid cost cutting measures.