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Value of SI2 Old Miner with a very visible black inclusion?

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chinadoll

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 6, 2012
Messages
4
We are looking at an estate ring that is priced at $9,000 with a center 1 ct Old Mine cut diamond, graded by EGL as E-F in color and SI2 in clarity. It's a gorgeous piece in a late 19th-century setting. However, there is a black inclusion on the table quite naked to the unaided eye. You can even see it in a photograph (attached). I am half in love with this piece but concerned about the value of a diamond with such an obvious black spot on the table, and wondering why it is valued so high. Is SI2 even the correct grading?

ring front.jpg
 
Re: Value of SI2 Old Miner with a very visible black inclusi

waaay overpriced IMO...
 
Re: Value of SI2 Old Miner with a very visible black inclusi

It is certainly I1 clarity so look for price comps with the same clarity. It might be worth half of what they are asking, but I wouldn't buy it at any price with such a visible black inclusion.
 
Re: Value of SI2 Old Miner with a very visible black inclusi

That stone looks like an I1 and the melee in the halo look kind of included, as well (or at least dark in the photo). The style of the ring is very pretty, but you could find a much better quality stone for that price and you wouldn't be looking at a black spot every time you looked down at your ring.

Yum:
http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/detail.php?ID=1621&SHAPE=OM
 
Re: Value of SI2 Old Miner with a very visible black inclusi

That whole thing looks odd to me. The fuzziness around the melee makes me feel like it isn't an actual photo... ? But if it is an actual photo of the real ring, I wouldn't buy it. And I CERTAINLY wouldn't buy it at that price (or even half that price). There are much better old stones out there to choose from.
 
Re: Value of SI2 Old Miner with a very visible black inclusi

Valued high by whom? The seller? Some 'appraiser' working for the seller?

They can ask whatever they want and they can claim it's 'worth' whatever they want. Unfortunately for sellers, asking is not the same as getting. :(sad
 
Re: Value of SI2 Old Miner with a very visible black inclusi

Thanks, everyone! We appreciate your honest reactions and the expertise here. We have been quite hesitant because, as you've also noted, the seller has set the value of this piece and the stones.

We hadn't known about oldworlddiamonds.com -- a great resource.
 
Re: Value of SI2 Old Miner with a very visible black inclusi

I'd also say it's not worth it... I love old cuts, but that culet looks too big to me, among other things. The setting is very pretty though.
 
Re: Value of SI2 Old Miner with a very visible black inclusi

I bought a gourgeus cut antique cushion with visible black inclusion few years ago. I paid very similar to your price. The difference is it is a 3.78 carat stone. It was sold as J SI2, I beleive it's K/L I1. And I still think that I overpaid (was still very inexperienced and did not burgain) and am not sure if I can resell it for the same price I bought.
So yes, I think you would overpay if you pay the asking price.
 
Re: Value of SI2 Old Miner with a very visible black inclusi

Please no. A black inclusion on the top center of a diamond isn't worth anything in my eye. I never loupe but that is just not pretty! It would bother me so so much.
 
Re: Value of SI2 Old Miner with a very visible black inclusi

Although that one photo is not definitive, I also think the cut looks poor. Big black mark, way overpriced, and poor cut = paaaas.
 
Re: Value of SI2 Old Miner with a very visible black inclusi

The cut is an old one, and I rather like the charm of it, but like many of you I think the black inclusion would bother me too much. I'm tempted to ask them if they'd sell the setting apart from the center stone, and find a better value of diamond.

InnaR, your comparison is helpful!

We're in New York, so a lot of the estate jewelry we see is appearing overpriced, the more we look around . . .
 
Re: Value of SI2 Old Miner with a very visible black inclusi

It is a lovely setting but the black inclusion would be all that I would be focusing on. It is definitely something that would bother me - having a visible inclusion like that. I say - keep looking. THere are many alternatives out there, especially if you are in NYC
 
Re: Value of SI2 Old Miner with a very visible black inclusi

chinadoll said:
InnaR, your comparison is helpful!
Click to expand...

Chinadoll,
I thought that it would be helpful. I think that reselling stones with black inclusions is not an easy thing and that reduces the price significantly. There should be big incentives for the customer to purchase a stone with visible black mark, something like high color, big size, mesmerizing cut and very low price.
If you really like the cut + color + setting combo of this stone, I would suggest to offer something in the area of 2,500 - 3,000. But keep in mind that a stone like that has all chances to stay in your family forever. :twirl:
 
Re: Value of SI2 Old Miner with a very visible black inclusi

chinadoll|1339012675|3210633 said:
The cut is an old one, and I rather like the charm of it, but like many of you I think the black inclusion would bother me too much.
Click to expand...

Chinadoll, I wanted to mention that several of the people commenting on this stone are actually old-cut aficionados and know a great deal about old cuts. I'm also a fan of them, I agree with you that they are very charming! But there are better cut old stones, and poorer cut ones. Check out the sites people have suggested -- Old World Diamonds, and Jewels by Erica Grace. Both specialize in old stones, and you can find some real beauties there!

Good luck in your search!
 
Re: Value of SI2 Old Miner with a very visible black inclusi

GemFever|1339023029|3210757 said:
chinadoll|1339012675|3210633 said:
The cut is an old one, and I rather like the charm of it, but like many of you I think the black inclusion would bother me too much.
Click to expand...

Chinadoll, I wanted to mention that several of the people commenting on this stone are actually old-cut aficionados and know a great deal about old cuts. I'm also a fan of them, I agree with you that they are very charming! But there are better cut old stones, and poorer cut ones. Check out the sites people have suggested -- Old World Diamonds, and Jewels by Erica Grace. Both specialize in old stones, and you can find some real beauties there!

Good luck in your search!
Click to expand...

Exactly.

I am familiar with old cuts, and have owned and do own many. I don't like how in the photo the central area is dark and the facets appear not to be reflecting light. You can also see through the culet, though that is common when they are so large. My own OEC windows, though not from that view. I am all for charm and wonk, but for a 1ct diamond with that much wonk I think a much lower price is warranted. I would not buy it based on that photo. If you are very familiar with old cuts and know what you like and have seen many, then trust your own eyes I suppose. But if you are newer to old cuts I encourage you to shop around. You can do a heck of a lot better, in price, cut, or both.
 
Re: Value of SI2 Old Miner with a very visible black inclusi

InnaR|1339022213|3210740 said:
chinadoll said:
InnaR, your comparison is helpful!
Click to expand...

Chinadoll,
I thought that it would be helpful. I think that reselling stones with black inclusions is not an easy thing and that reduces the price significantly. There should be big incentives for the customer to purchase a stone with visible black mark, something like high color, big size, mesmerizing cut and very low price.
If you really like the cut + color + setting combo of this stone, I would suggest to offer something in the area of 2,500 - 3,000. But keep in mind that a stone like that has all chances to stay in your family forever. :twirl:
Click to expand...

I hear what you're saying, InnaR, and I have to wonder how the seller is justifying this reselling price.

Generally, as I see more and get to know more about older cuts, I have to think I might not mind the tradeoff of an inclusion for charm . . . eventually. But for now, I'm still pretty green. Thanks for the advice to keep looking, everyone! :mrgreen:
 
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