Using appraiser in place of GIA certificate

[saphire]

Hi. It''s recommended that I use an independent appraiser even though I buy GIA or EGL certificate. An uncertified diamond would save me a lot of money. What about using an appraiser to appraise the diamond to save in cost instead of buying a GIA certified or EGL certified diamond?

 

[Regular Guy]

A casual reply...it''s hard to game the system.

From the point of view that (fill in the blank...diamond holders, cutters, wholesalers) know how to optimize the system to bring in as much cash from a diamond as is reasonable, I think if it would have been smart to have sent it to GIA, etc, it would have been done.

Likewise...where the major grading agencies (GIA, AGS, etc) have high quality equipment for documenting data like crown and pavilion angles, almost always (even among the best ones here) appraisers do not. So, although an appraiser, if motivated to, can apply their knowledge about this sort of data provided to them from a grading report...asking them to produce good numbers for you from whole cloth is...to my mind...asking too much.

I would enjoy hearing a countering argument from an appraiser, if they would care to.

My 2 cents....

 

[Lorelei]

Added to the points Ira made, should you ever wish to try to trade or resell the diamond, it can be hard enough to try to sell a diamond with a GIA or AGS lab report, let alone one without, so you may want to bear that in mind.

 

[denverappraiser]

Some appraisers do have adequate equipment and skills and are perfectly able to provide MORE information than what is contained on the lab reports but I think this largely misses the point.

The premise of the question is that ‘uncertified’ goods are bargains when compared to otherwise similar ‘certified’ stones. Are they really?

It’s easy enough to collect quotes from different dealers of stones with the same weight/clarity/color descriptions that contain a cut description like ‘ideal’ or ‘excellent’ that are enormously different in price. Do a search in the database here for pretty much any popular set of specs and you’ll get price ranges of at least 50%-75% from the top to the bottom and inevitably the most obvious difference will be in the choice of grading lab, maybe not even that. Expand this to looking elsewhere and the range gets even bigger to include more unusual labs and dealer grades stones.

Here’s GIA’s fee structure, straight from the proverbial horses mouth.
http://www.gia.edu/gemtradelab/31548/fees.cfm

AGSL is about the same prices, while EGL-USA and IGI are a little bit cheaper, especially on bigger stones but it’s rarely less than half. The others vary by quite a bit but none are significantly more, some are far less. GIA’s current turnaround time is about 2 weeks on most stones, faster on bigger ones and just about everybody else is faster on everything.

I mention this as a grounding on what it actually costs and how long it takes to convert an ‘uncertified’ stone into a ‘certified’ one. This also highlights how much is actually saved by using the 2nd tier or more generic labs. In the case of lab fees, it ain’t much. For a 2 carat stone, sending it to EGL-USA instead of GIA or AGSL will save about $50 in fees. Using an in-house lab, where you have your brother-in-law type something up will save about $300 in fees and shipping (assuming you don’t live in NYC or sunny Carlsbad). That’s it. For half caraters where the dealer can get some reasonable shipping efficiency by sending several together, GIA paper will cost them about $80 including shipping, EGL-USA pedigree will be about $60 and the guy in the basement is free.

So where’s the savings coming from if not the lab fees?

It’s in the grading accuracy and in the information that isn’t on the report. One graders idea of a G color can be another graders idea of an I. A VS2 in one place might be an SI1 from somewhere else. ‘Ideal’ cutting means all sorts of different things to different people and ‘Premium’ or ‘Awesome’ can mean anything they want. Who do you believe? The premise here is that it doesn’t matter and I posit that it’s one of the most important issues. All labs are not the same. All appraisers are not the same. All ‘independent’ appraisers are not the same. The difference between ‘uncertified’, ‘certified’ and ‘appraised’ is not just the presence of a piece of paper, it’s whether that paper contains useful information. The burden is on the lab/appraiser to convince you that their opinions have merit. Not all do.

One opportunity that does occasionally result in an actual bargain is the secondary market. This is where you are buying from an individual who is reselling a diamond and who lacks the sophistication, time or motivation to get it properly documented. They hired some sort of appraiser to write up a report (or just wrote something up themselves) or had something that was given to them by the jeweler where they got it. They’ve listed it on craigslist, put it in an auction or whatever and they want to be paid quickly without incurring any additional fees. As a buyer, this is 100% seller described goods and it only makes sense to hire your own grader and make the deal contingent on their results or don’t touch it. Since the labs will only inspect unmounted stones and most sellers in this situation have jewelry, not loose stones and want an answer fairly quickly, it leaves you with little choice but to use an appraisal service. As with the above, a key question is deciding who you should believe. Obviously not the seller and probably not the sellers appraiser or some jeweler/appraiser who wrote about it years ago when they were selling it. Appraisers are not all the same. Appraise the appraiser. Check their credentials, ask them questions, Google them. Ask about them here. Choose someone who is working for YOU, not the seller. Choose someone who has the equipment, training and experience to do the job properly. Choose someone that you’re prepared to trust with a few thousand dollars of YOUR money.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[oldminer]

As usual, a thorough response from Denverappraiser.

There are bargain diamonds all around, especially in this dismal economy we find ourselves in. People are selling things of value, which often include diamonds, so many un-certed diamonds are entering the retail arena. If youhappen to find a diamond you like, it may simply not have been graded up to the limit of its quality. You could find a diamond being sold as H/I which really is a G color. It might have SI1 clarity, but the cautious seller might have graded it SI2. That''s where the bargain really is. There are may cautious merchants who sell second hand items and try hard not to misprepresent them. Of course, there are the opposite types, too.

The problem is that YOU can''t tell a bargain from a well graded stone or from a badly overgraded stone. You will ned either a qualified lab report or the opinion of a qualified, independent expert. Both of these options will cost you a few bucks, but if you stumble upon a real bargain, such as described above, then the appraisal fee is very small. If the appraisal or lab report reveals you are about to take a large hit, then the lab or appraisal report is still a relatively cheap cost.

If Denverappraiser or I wanted a diamond, we would not require a lab report or another opinion, but most everyone else is helped by such a process. My wifes 3ct+ diamond has no lab report, but I know what it is well enough that I am happy with it. If a person ever requires a lab report to sell a diamond, they can always go get one later on. Most buyers of diamonds like to get a report with the stone, but they know what the quality is anyway. I don''t pay more for a lab report when buying a used diamond unless it is a very special sort of report such as an origin of fancy color, etc.

 

[ikonos]

If you are buying a GIA or AGS certified diamond from online vendors like WF, GOG, Blue Nile etc, how can you make sure you are getting the stone that you bought other than taking it to an independent gemologist/appraiser?

This question is for most of the forum members that are not the diamond experts who bought from online vendors. Did you take it to a gemologist to make sure the stone matches the cert?

Christine York and Sandler are the ASA certified appraisers here in Houston, any feedback on them?

Thanks
Ik.