Undecided! Torn between quality and a budget!

[Cloud00]

Hi! I'm trying to decide on my engagement ring. I know... I'm doing all the hard work for my boyfriend.
Can you all please help me decide? Which one is a better round diamond?

Diamond 1
Carat weight: 0.80
Cut: Excellent
Color: G
Clarity: VVS2
Certificate: GIA
Depth: 62.4%
Table: 55.0%
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Girdle: Thin to medium
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 5.95*5.97*3.72
Crown Angle: 35.5
Crown %: 0.16
Pavilion Angle: 41.0
Pavilion %: 0.44
-----------------------------------------
Diamond 2
Carat weight: 0.81
Cut: Hearts & Arrows Ideal
Color: I
Clarity: VVS2
Certificate: AGS
Depth: 61.6%
Table: 56.9%
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Girdle:
Culet: None
Fluorescence: Negligible
Measurements: 5.97*6.01*3.69
Crown Angle: 34.4
Crown %: 14.90
Pavilion Angle: 40.9
Pavilion %: 43.20
----------------------------------------------
Diamond 3
Carat weight: 0.79
Cut: Hearts & Arrows Ideal
Color: H
Clarity: VS1
Certificate: AGS
Depth: 62.2%
Table: 57.0%
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Girdle:
Culet: None
Fluorescence: Negligible
Measurements: 5.88*5.91*3.67
Crown Angle: 35.4
Crown %:
Pavilion Angle: 40.8
---------------------------------------------
Diamond 4
Carat weight: 0.81
Cut: Excellent
Color: G
Clarity: VS1
Certificate: GIA
Depth: 61.8%
Table: 57.0%
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Girdle:
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 5.96*5.99*3.70
Crown Angle: 34.5
Crown %: 15.00
Pavilion Angle: 41.0

I thought diamond #1 was the better one, since it was G color, VVS2, Excellent Cut. But when I ran the the specs through HOLLOWAY CUT ADVISER, it had the least fire, light and scintillation.

All advice and suggestions are welcomed. Thank you!

 

[Missy]

People way more knowledgeable than me about diamonds are going to respond to your post Cloud but I do want to caution you about the AGS I and H diamond. AGS rates more softly on color than GIA and and AGS I may very well be more like a J/K color diamond. Nothing wrong with that if you like the lower colors. But if you are like me and color sensitive I thought it might be worth mentioning.
And while GIA rates more softly on cut you have other tools available to make sure you are going to get the best cut available but color really needs to be seen in person if AGS is rating it I think.
Good luck!!

 

[distracts]

I like the G VS1, assuming the HCA score checks out. Can you get an idealscope image of it?

 

[Cloud00]

Thanks for your replies already! Diamond #4 did check out on the HCA and AGA Cut Class Tool (Total Grade 2A). But on the GIA clarity characteristics even though it's VS1 it says Crystal, Feather, Needle and cloud finish.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Trust me, you will have to search hard to even see VS1 inclusions with a 10x loupe. VS1 is the best value for people who like high clarity. I cannot see any inclusions in my VS1 stones with a loupe!

My choice is #4. The cut is nice, the size is good, and G VS1 is my favorite combination!

 

[tyty333]

2, 3 or 4 should be nice. However, I would pick higher color over a VVS clarity. 4 would probably be my choice.
VS1 should be eye-clean. Why are you worried about it?

 

[Cloud00]

Thank you Diamondseeker!

Tyty333: I am worried because Diamond #4 GIA's certificate says Crystal, Feather, Needle and cloud finish.

I am now leaning more towards Diamond #4 though! Thanks all!

 

[jkozlow3]

People way more knowledgeable than me about diamonds are going to respond to your post Cloud but I do want to caution you about the AGS I and H diamond. AGS rates more softly on color than GIA and and AGS I may very well be more like a J/K color diamond. Nothing wrong with that if you like the lower colors. But if you are like me and color sensitive I thought it might be worth mentioning.
And while GIA rates more softly on cut you have other tools available to make sure you are going to get the best cut available but color really needs to be seen in person if AGS is rating it I think.
Good luck!!

There have been a few reported instances here of AGS being on the soft side by a color grade, but I don't think you should be stating that as gospel. It's certainly not a proven fact that AGS is softer on color and stating it as such will scare potential buyers unnecessarily.

AGS and GIA are the two best labs in the world. They grade millions of stones each year and most of them would probably be given the same color grade if graded by both labs. AGS assigns a preliminary color grade using a Sarin colorimeter and then color is scored by at least 2 graduate gemologists. I don't think it's fair to say AGS is "softer" until that's proven.

 

[Missy]

Sorry Karen, I should have prefaced my thoughts with IMO....
Though I did write may be a J/K...
I stand by my opinion that she should check the color out in person as that seems a more subjective measure....

 

[Circe]

G

 

[ecf8503]

Personally I don't think you need to go so high on clarity - you will be spending more money on something you can't even see, whereas color is more obvious. I'd suggest going down to a VS2 even down to SI1 or SI2 (as long as they are eye clean) and maybe bumping up the color in order to get a bigger stone.

We can help you if you tell us your budget and are willing to look at online stones...

 

[GMUAlum08]

Personally I don't think you need to go so high on clarity - you will be spending more money on something you can't even see, whereas color is more obvious. I'd suggest going down to a VS2 even down to SI1 or SI2 (as long as they are eye clean) and maybe bumping up the color in order to get a bigger stone.

We can help you if you tell us your budget and are willing to look at online stones...

sound advice here. pay for what you are going to see. size and cut are the first things you will notice

 

[Enerchi]

#4 - G VS1. I agree, don't pay for clarity that you won't be able to appreciate, the same way you will cut and colour.

Did you pick one yet?

 

[Dreamer_D]

First, there has been a lot of talk on PS lately about AGS being "soft" on color and I think it is overstated and not in the interests of consumers to lump AGS in with EGL in that way -- and statements suggesting AGS may be two color grades "off" from GIA indeed lump AGS in with EGL. AGS is highly reliable. One or two anecdotal examples of different grading -- and that is all the evidence I have seen on PS -- does not a systematic difference make. ETA: And missy this is not aimed at you to argue, I understand your comment is your opinion and you are entitled to it of course. I do wonder on what evidence you base your opinion (genuinely curious)? Because I have not seen good evidence of a grade disparity on PS, though I know two or three posters who talk about their own anecdotal impressions of a grade difference a lot, and the notion seems to be getting legs.

Second, OP is there a reason you are choosing such high clarity stones? You like purity in your diamonds?

 

[distracts]

You like purity in your diamonds?

*snicker*

Purity in diamonds is like purity in girls - great to look at, but hard to get.

 

[Missy]

Hi Dreamer, I am basing my comments on the AGS stones I have seen in person- probably more than 10, less than 20. Due to PS members strong recommendations re AGS diamonds I started looking at them and IMO the color was always off by at least 1 grade as compared to GIA. However, keep in mind I am color sensitive. Wish I wasn't as I could save $$ if I didn't notice or care.

Again, I am not knocking AGS so much as just sharing my thoughts and letting Cloud know it might be something she wants to double check. It's more difficult buying a diamond online so I just wanted to help her be aware that for some people,including me, color can be the Achilles heel for AGS.

I certainly would never put them in the EGL category btw. Personally I wouldn't purchase an EGL diamond unless it was an old cut and even then I would prefer to get it graded by GIA. But again, that's my personal choice.

 

[milton333]

Yeah, I'm going to have to say that making extraordinary claims requires some extraordinary support for them. To suggest that an AGS I could be a GIA K, that's a pretty strong statement based purely on "in my impression." It maligns a very respected laboratory, that has very strict cut-grading standards and is the "gold standard" for several PS vendors. IMO, suggesting to a newbie that AGS "could be" off by two color grades based upon no independent assessment, dual grading report, even colorimeter, that's inappropriate.

 

[Missy]

I stand by my observations Milton.

 

[Cloud00]

Thanks everyone!

ecf8503: My budget is about $4,300 max

And I'm not a purist since I don't own many diamonds, but now that I've done a little research I am looking into clarity. I would also like for my diamond to be worth more in time.

 

[Laila619]

Personally I don't think you need to go so high on clarity - you will be spending more money on something you can't even see, whereas color is more obvious. I'd suggest going down to a VS2 even down to SI1 or SI2 (as long as they are eye clean) and maybe bumping up the color in order to get a bigger stone.

We can help you if you tell us your budget and are willing to look at online stones...

sound advice here. pay for what you are going to see. size and cut are the first things you will notice

Yes, exactly. I think you could get a bigger stone and go down a bit in the other areas. Is high color and clarity really important to you? Because generally CUT is what makes the diamond sparkly, fiery, and bright--*not* color or clarity. Unless people are staring at your diamond with a loupe, no one can tell the difference between, say, a VS2 versus an SI1.

 

[milton333]

Thanks everyone!

ecf8503: My budget is about $4,300 max

And I'm not a purist since I don't own many diamonds, but now that I've done a little research I am looking into clarity. I would also like for my diamond to be worth more in time.

Unless you have a quixotic need for high clarity, the only reasons to be concerned with clarity are: (1) whether there are visible flaws in the diamond when viewed by human eyes (i.e., stuff that's seen only under magnification is irrelevant), and (2) whether the flaws affect the light performance of the diamond.

At the size diamond you're looking at, VS2 is almost always eye clean with no ill effects on performance, SI1 can often be okay, and there are sometimes rare SI2 or I1 diamonds that could give you great value while still being eyeclean with good light performance.

One reason we typically recommend AGS stones is that they are graded specifically for light performance, and to standards far stricter than the GIA "excellent" cut grade. So, if you can confirm that an SI1 is eye clean to your standards, and it's AGS0 for light performance, then you know the inclusions aren't affecting the visual performance of the diamond, either. AGS0 is an easy way to get a great-performing stone.

Do you have specific plans to upgrade in the future? I'm not sure what you mean about wanting your stone to be "worth more in time." Diamond prices have tended to increase over time, but unless you're planning to sell what you're buying now, I'm not sure what your interest is, there. It's impossible to predict where diamond prices will go.

I'm at work without a lot of time to shop for you, but if I were in the market at your price point, this is what I'd get http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/0.816-H-VS1-Round-Diamond-AGS-BL-104059901019

 

[distracts]

And I'm not a purist since I don't own many diamonds, but now that I've done a little research I am looking into clarity. I would also like for my diamond to be worth more in time.

All diamonds will be worth more in time as long as diamond prices are going up. That's not affected by the stats. I don't know where people get this idea. It's like inflation - it hits all money, whether you have a $100 bill or a quarter, its value is still affected by inflation. Except unlike money you can expect a diamond's resale value to be about half to three-quarters of its retail value (less if you're pawning or aiming for a quick sale), so you actually take a bigger hit on resale in terms of a loss if you have a diamond that's worth more. If you would like to keep upgrading as an option, it is usually better to go with a vendor that has a great upgrade policy, especially one that doesn't require you to spend 2x the initial purchase price of your stone.

 

[TitanCi]

Trust me, you will have to search hard to even see VS1 inclusions with a 10x loupe. VS1 is the best value for people who like high clarity. I cannot see any inclusions in my VS1 stones with a loupe!

My choice is #4. The cut is nice, the size is good, and G VS1 is my favorite combination!

^THIS.