uncertified - red flag?
- Thread starter slbrides
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Of course it’s a red flag. The question is should it be a total deal killer.
That depends. The dealer is telling you that you should absolutely trust them 100% to treat you right and that they both know and are prepared to tell you everything you want to know about your purchase. Hand over your credit card and they’ll fix you up. If you’re prepared to do that then you have no need for a 3rd party grading opinion and the lab fees are a waste of money. If, on the other hand, a $150 fee to inspect and document a $10,000 item seems reasonable to you then you should consider a different stone. If they’re not prepared to accommodate you, consider a different dealer.
Why would they sell thins without lab pedigree?
1) There’s something on the lab report that they don’t want to tell you.
2) The fees are too high in relation to the value of the stone and they think their customers won’t want to pay the cost.
3) They don’t want to take the time and/or spend the money to send it in.
How expensive a stone are you talking about and what is the claimed grade?
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
That depends. The dealer is telling you that you should absolutely trust them 100% to treat you right and that they both know and are prepared to tell you everything you want to know about your purchase. Hand over your credit card and they’ll fix you up. If you’re prepared to do that then you have no need for a 3rd party grading opinion and the lab fees are a waste of money. If, on the other hand, a $150 fee to inspect and document a $10,000 item seems reasonable to you then you should consider a different stone. If they’re not prepared to accommodate you, consider a different dealer.
Why would they sell thins without lab pedigree?
1) There’s something on the lab report that they don’t want to tell you.
2) The fees are too high in relation to the value of the stone and they think their customers won’t want to pay the cost.
3) They don’t want to take the time and/or spend the money to send it in.
How expensive a stone are you talking about and what is the claimed grade?
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2004
- Messages
- 9,159
Bet’cha he’ll cert it if you ask him to. My guess is that the reason this doesn’t already have one is #2 above... The fees are high relative to the value of the stone. With insurance and such that’s going to cost about $200 to paper and this is 5% of the cost of the stone. That’s enough to notice and a significant number of people would rather have the cheaper price than the documentation to 'prove' the grade.
If you decide that it’s the stone for you and the lack of lab grading is a deal killer for you, make this offer: He sends it in to GIA for grading and, if it comes back as represented (or better), you pay for the stone and all the fees associated with the GIA grading. If it comes out less than what he’s calling it, the deal is off, he pays the fee, you are free to go and he keeps the now documented stone to sell to someone else. If you still want it you can try to negotiate for a better price but there's no obligation on either one of you.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
If you decide that it’s the stone for you and the lack of lab grading is a deal killer for you, make this offer: He sends it in to GIA for grading and, if it comes back as represented (or better), you pay for the stone and all the fees associated with the GIA grading. If it comes out less than what he’s calling it, the deal is off, he pays the fee, you are free to go and he keeps the now documented stone to sell to someone else. If you still want it you can try to negotiate for a better price but there's no obligation on either one of you.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
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- Sep 19, 2009
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- 204
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2009
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- 10,433
Neil touched upon a few of the important aspects.
I''d add that no diamond is "certified"- it may have a lab report identifying it, but "certify" implies something else.
For example- say guy on the corner is selling a diamond- and he''s got a "certificate" for it. Obviously a huge red flag.
Now, if a reputable dealer has a stone with a GIA report, you''re still going to have to feel comfortable that they will ship the stone that corresponds to the report.
My point is- if a stone has a lab report, or if it doesn''t, it''s crucial to carefully select a dealer.
Vendors are not supposed to comment on other vendors, but I''ll go out on a limb to say, you''ve picked a good dealer.
Reason number one listed by Neil is, of course, what you''d want to watch out for.
As Neil said, in reason number 2, look at how much the stone cost, and sometimes the reasoning behind skipping the expense of a GIA report makes sense.
Diamonds below J color are good examples.
A large problem is that many shoppers believe they know what "certified" means, yet are not familiar with the differences between GIA, AGSL, EGL, IGI, and others.
IMO the better dealers, if they are showing a diamond either without a lab report- OR- accompanied by one of the lesser lab reports ( such as EGL) needs to explain this to the client.
As Neil suggests, the better dealers will also be happy to submit a stone if they know a consumer is seriously interested.
I''d add that no diamond is "certified"- it may have a lab report identifying it, but "certify" implies something else.
For example- say guy on the corner is selling a diamond- and he''s got a "certificate" for it. Obviously a huge red flag.
Now, if a reputable dealer has a stone with a GIA report, you''re still going to have to feel comfortable that they will ship the stone that corresponds to the report.
My point is- if a stone has a lab report, or if it doesn''t, it''s crucial to carefully select a dealer.
Vendors are not supposed to comment on other vendors, but I''ll go out on a limb to say, you''ve picked a good dealer.
Reason number one listed by Neil is, of course, what you''d want to watch out for.
As Neil said, in reason number 2, look at how much the stone cost, and sometimes the reasoning behind skipping the expense of a GIA report makes sense.
Diamonds below J color are good examples.
A large problem is that many shoppers believe they know what "certified" means, yet are not familiar with the differences between GIA, AGSL, EGL, IGI, and others.
IMO the better dealers, if they are showing a diamond either without a lab report- OR- accompanied by one of the lesser lab reports ( such as EGL) needs to explain this to the client.
As Neil suggests, the better dealers will also be happy to submit a stone if they know a consumer is seriously interested.
the table of 87% is incorrect...I believe it is 75.4% which is on one of the reports.
So if the dealer does not think its not worth certifying, then should I even consider it? So confusing...you want to trust the dealer, but in the end, they are trying to sell you something.
Neil, I like your idea...
and David, you are right, there is a certain amount of trust that the stone you "order" is the one that goes to the appraiser and that the appraiser sends you the stone that was sent to them...
I personally, plan to keep whatever stone I get next for the long haul. I never would have considered selling/trading my previous stone given the sentimental value. Maybe that changes now that I don''t have that stone.
So if the dealer does not think its not worth certifying, then should I even consider it? So confusing...you want to trust the dealer, but in the end, they are trying to sell you something.
Neil, I like your idea...
and David, you are right, there is a certain amount of trust that the stone you "order" is the one that goes to the appraiser and that the appraiser sends you the stone that was sent to them...
I personally, plan to keep whatever stone I get next for the long haul. I never would have considered selling/trading my previous stone given the sentimental value. Maybe that changes now that I don''t have that stone.
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