Uncerted diamonds?

[Sunni79]

Has anyone bought uncertified diamonds? Assuming it''s from a reputable vendor... Just curious.

 

[hoorray]

This almost seems like an oxymoron -- uncerted stones from a reputable vendor.

Don''t get me wrong. I don''t necessarily think stones must be certified, but I do think that most reputable vendors deal only or at least mostly with certified stones.

I''ve had a local jeweler try to sell me uncertified, "ideal" H&A stones. Via a viewer, I could see that they were nice H&A cuts. I didn''t have my idealscope with me to see anything else, and he had not way to prove that any of the other specs were what he said they were. I could have taken them to an appraiser I trusted to make sure he agreed with the specs that I was paying for. But, I found many comparable stones with certs while I was shopping, so it took the "trust me" factor out of play.

I would buy an uncertified stone form a private party once I got an appraisal that I trusted. I don''t know that I would pay vendor prices for an uncertified stone.

 

[JohnQuixote]

For any diamond larger than melee I would hope there would be an agreed-upon (and written) examination/return period. If they are representing the diamond fairly they will have no fear of you taking it to a qualified independent appraiser of your choice for verification. Of course, since it's unpapered it should run around $200 less -or more- than similar certed goods.

 

[denverappraiser]

The purpose of the lab report is to give the buyer some assurance about the grading. It fundamentally answering the question “Who says this is a VS2?” The real answer is that the selling dealer is the one who is making a specific claim and they are the ones who have a legal obligation about its veracity. Even so, customers like to have a 3rd party opinion to support the dealers statements and dealers like to have paperwork to support their claims. It’s the same reason that people regularly seek out independent appraisals on new purchases. If you are 100% confident that the dealer both knows and is telling you everything of importance, there is little reason for either 3rd party examination. The lab examination that is described on the report isn’t free and stones that haven’t been through the process can be potentially less expensive. If you have 0% confidence in the dealer, you should not buy there under any circumstances since you have no reason to believe that the report you are presented is any more valid than the other things you’ve been told. The balance between these two extremes will depend on the individual client and their comfort level with the dealer, with the lab, with the appraiser, and with their own skills.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 5/20/2005 8:19:58 AM
Author: Feydakin
I think the ''certed'' stones tends to be a failsafe for many people.. First of they are not ''certified'' anything.. These are lab reports with someone''s opinion, just as many ''uncerted'' stones are by many jewelers.. Add to that the fact that quite a few jewelers have the exact same training as many graders, just not always the volume of grading under their belts..

Stones with lab reports may help take some of the guesswork, and trust, out of the equation, but they are in no way a ''guarentee'' that the stone is what the report says that it is.. You are simply taking the trust in the jeweler and placing it in a report.. In either case, you are trusting someone to be accurate..

All very true, Fed......but the difference is this: A grading lab has no vested interest in the outcome; they get paid regardless of their grading. They get their $200 bucks whether they call the stone a G or an I.

A jeweler does have has a vested interest in the outcome.....it''s possible that stone could command $2900 as an H stone, but would command $3200 as a G stone. Especially where grading is subjective, it really blurs the lines.

Do I think most jewelers work this way and intentionally overstate stones? No, I don''t. However, I think the way that customers can help reassure themselves that they don''t even have to worry about it is to stick with graded stones....then it''s a non-issue.

I''ve said it before......comfort level with buying uncerted stones, I think, depends on a number of things.

1. Do you have a vendor you really trust? I''d buy an uncerted stone from Brian Gavin any day of the week; I implicitly trust his judgment and I have faith in his integrity. Trust in your vendor is key.

2. How major is the purchase? I''d never make a major purchase without a graded stone; I''m going to want insurance coverage on most major pieces, so I want the grading reports. However, if I were buying smaller earrings or perhaps side stones, I''d absolutely trust Brian''s evaluation of a non-graded stone.

3. How much can you save relative to the total purchase? If I''m buying two .25 stones, and I can pay $800 for ungraded vs. $1K for graded stones, that''s a big savings - 20%. If I''m buying a 1.3 engagement stone, though, it seems there is more risk to me then in trying to save $200 on a $7K purchase. Just not worth it to me.

 

[fire&ice]

Certs are a relatively new phenom. As long as I had an independent set of eyes look at the stone, regardless of size, I wouldn''t need a cert.

Certs were not common when we bought my engagement ring. I had the ring appraised a few years back & the appraisal came in better color and better clarity than what was sold to me. So, I don''t necessarily think uncerted stones aren''t what they are represented as or better.