Unbiased help

[chenk]

Hello,

I have spent a good deal of time over the last 4-6 weeks doing research about diamonds. I am a consumer and looking to make a purchase for an engagement ring. I am a very analytical person with a very strong science and engineering background, so while I have enjoyed the research aspect, I must say that it has been very difficult to draw consistent conclusions about what is true or not, what is best, etc. I am hoping that some folks on this forum might be able to help, so thank you very much in advance.

I stumbled onto this forum while doing research about people's sentiments with respect to Diamond Cutters International and Fred Cuellar. Suffice it to say that I have found less than stellar opinions, so I won't belabor this point other than to say that I just had the proverbial "shoe drop" today when "my gemologist" mysteriously offered me the wonderful solution of providing me with a stone. I found it odd that someone pitching themselves as offering unbiased advice was suddenly trying to sell me their product. They did not tell me that a stone I found was warped (which seems to be common with many posts I have read), but they did tell me that the fair price was $4000 less than what I was quoted (this stone is described below)...

In a nutshell, here are the specs I am looking for:

Shape = Princess or Square Radiant
Size = around 1.50 ct
Color = F-G
Clarity = VS1-VS2
Cut = very good, which seems to be a highly divergent matter of opinion for these shapes
Fluorescence = None
Culet = None or Small
Polish/Symmetry = Good+
Girdle = Thin to Thick

I have heard every opinion you can imagine on what constitutes a quality cut for square shapes. I have had a very hard time getting to see any reasonable number of stones (more than 2-3) with different cuts together at one time, so it has been tough to form my own comparison opinions. I am getting a bit frustrated by this, but my persistence has not worn out yet...

First of all, any unbiased opinions (simply meaning from someone not trying to make a sale) on this subject would be appreciated. Second, below are specs on an actual stone I found a few days ago that I thought was beautiful. An opinion on the appropriateness of this pricing would also be appreciated.

Shape = Princess
Size = 1.50 ct
Color = F
Clarity = VS1
Table = 68%
Depth = 70%
Fluorescence = None
Culet = None
Polish = Good
Symmetry = Good
Girdle = I forgot to ask
Cert = GIA, as of July 2003
Price = $13,000 and I think I could probably negotiate down some

In addition, my plan is to have the main stone set in platinum with a roughly 40 point trilliant on either side. The jeweler would do two F-VS 40 pt trilliants and the setting for an additional $1500 for a total ring price of $14,500.

If you are still reading and can help, thank you for any insights you can provide.

-Chenk

 

[rocky44]

did they (DCI-gemologist) offer to custom cut your stone with all the right proportions. Put you on the Min list--meaning you will get the minimum clarity and colro you want but with the possibility of a higher grating when complete. 500 to hold the spot. I was offered that today. Hum Sorry I can't help with your specs. Just curious if that was the scam being run. I wish you the best of luck in your search.

 

[chenk]

That is exactly what they (DCI) offered. As they described the offer, it sounded great and I couldn't think of any reason not to do it. However, I asked them to send me what they told me in writing before I would act (which they did, at least via email). Then as I thought about it, I couldn't help but wonder why they would not have just offered this service right up front, as opposed to giving me a bunch of "free, unbiased help" only to end up pitching me... They made it sound like this is something that they only offer to "certain customers" but there is nothing that special about me or the diamond I am looking for. I honestly can't tell you that this is a scam per se, it just doesn't smell right to me, and I set out last night to research the company and Fred Cuellar. Pretty much all I have found is negative feedback on multiple forums including this one. It also seems that it is very typical for them to shoot down stones you find elsewhere and "make you the special offer" which in fact makes it less than special. I am not sure what to think for sure...

 

[fuffi]

Hi Chenk

There was a very detailed post this week on princess cut specs you may find helpful:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/desirable-princess-cut-table-depth.4987/

I have to say though that the price you were quoted sounds quite high compared to similar stones listed on pricescope. Have you thought about buying online? Many that post here have had great experiences with the quality, prices and service they've received from very reputable vendors.

 

[chenk]

Fuffi,

Thanks for the link on princess cut specs. Very helpful.

There are two things that thus far have kept me from seriously considering an online purchase. 1) I am still not confident about EXACTLY what I want until I can see an example with my own eyes. 2) From the standpoint of service and warranties, I am more comfortable with a "bricks and mortar" store that has been around for a while (no offense to the online vendors). At the same time I haven't really done that much research about online vendors because of point #1.

Thanks,
Mark

 

[Rank Amateur]

Does Fred cut his own stones? It seems unlikely to me.

I thought that part of the art of cutting was making the most of what the rough has to give. To this end it would be tough to cut a stone to a certain spec. I presume yield color and clarity is somewhat of a mystery right up until the end.

This reminds me of the line car dealers were giving me saying that I could "order" a car with certain features. In the end they couldn't deliver because they got cars on an allocation basis and didn't have much (if any) control over what they were allocated. All they could do is search other dealers' stock databases and hope to trade for what I wanted. I ended up doing the searching myself and having the car trucked from Rhode Island to my front door.

 

[chenk]

Yes, DCI apparently cuts their own stones. The claim is they search through their rough for a match to cut what you specify. Furthermore, they likened the cutting process to peeling an onion. They say the color and clarity of the final product will only ever be better than that of the rough. I have no idea if this is true or not.

Anyway, I am choosing to steer clear of them. And since I haven't seen any replies to my last post here from an online jeweler wishing to dispel my opinions on them, I am likely going to be buying from a local jeweler...