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uhhh please don''t tell me i''m going to be sending it back to WF again..

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denverboy

denverboy

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
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222
getting sick of my posts yet? cuz i am sick of posting =/

but here's the deal now... i'm happy w/ everything w/ the setting. And I've spent a large part of the day just staring at the ring - both to just look at it for fun and also to make sure nothing else is wrong. And then I pulled out the H&A viewer in the little kit you get and saw the arrows and also the inclusions b/c of the magnification. Then I put away the H&A viewer and look at the stone and ... uh oh.... I can see the inclusion.

I was told this stone was completely eye clean from all distances and angles and I kept saying before purchasing the stone I wanted it to be COMPLETELY eye clean. Now granted it is very small, but I can still see it fairly easily while sitting at my desk typing this. This upsets me a bit. And I'm not sure what I should do since I've already sent the ring back to them once to fix the setting.

here's a link to the stone again - the one that's visible is the black inclusion under the table.

Urgh.. so now I'm debating if I should just keep it since it is really small or if I should switch out the stone for one that really is COMPLETELY eye clean.

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-1255843.htm

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I know I'm being picky, annoying, perfectionist, etc but for a one time purchase for an engagement ring that costs $1000's ... I can't help it
 
Does your definition of eyeclean match WF''s? Personally I would keep it if you need to scrutinize the stone to see it...but that''s just me.
 
I would personally keep it. If you have to look that hard to see it would not bother me personally, but it is your stone...
 
Once you see it through a loupe its hard to "un-see" it. Eyeclean doesn''t mean that once you''ve seen it you won''t be able to see it .. you know what I mean. It means (generally) someone looking at the ring, who HASN''t seen it through a loupe wouldn''t be able to see any inclusion. But, honestly, an SI1 stone with a black inclusion is what you paid for. If you''d wanted "cleaner" -- that costs more. Its not a bait & switch situation "but they said it was eyeclean" -- its a you may have changed your mind situation.

I can''t say if it would bother me or not in a RB stone ... those are harder to see inclusions. But we picked a VVS1 for my asscher cut -- inclusions are even more obvious in an open step cut.

It kind of depends on what you''re worried about. OTHER people noticing. Your girl noticing while staring at it all day every day. Or YOU noticing. Or either of you WORRYING about it even though NO ONE else would ever know.
 
I would keep it. My original engagement ring has a VERY visible black inclusion, concealed on the edge, I notice it everytime I look, but only because I know it is there.

The inclusion on your ring is barely noticable. I doubt your FI to be will notice it unless you make her aware.

It would be far more hassle to have the stone replaced IMHO.

The ring is stunning...keep it.
 
Date: 10/31/2008 5:50:54 PM
Author: neatfreak
Does your definition of eyeclean match WF's? Personally I would keep it if you need to scrutinize the stone to see it...but that's just me.
Click to expand...

I know WF's is typically from 9-12" or something and in normal lighting conditions. I was sure to tell them my definition was from any distance and any angle. And like I said, they did say it was eye clean from all distances and angles b/c apparently they test for that also.

I guess "how much do you have to scrutinize to see it" is a tough question to answer... I mean it is small and hard to notice of course. You do have to pretty much be looking for it to see it. But that's kind of true of many SI1 inclusions since when you look at the stone you'll first notice the sparkle, etc.

My current feeling is that I may keep it and deal w/ it. If I never show her the H&A viewing or clarity plot then she may never see it. jk
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And since it isn't one of those "oh wow that stones got an inclusion" kinda things... I think/hope I'll be ok w/ it. but this may take a day or 2 for me to decide and be comfortable w/ the decision =/

they shouldn't include that H&A viewer w/ SI1 stones!!! jk
 
I vote for switching the stone to a completely clean diamond
 
Why would you keep it if you are having doubts?

It doesn''t make sense to me why you''re willing to settle. If you don''t like the diamond and it''s within the 30d period, then return it and get yourself an eye clean one. This is once in a lifetime, do it the way you want to do it.

This is an easy answer for me, if you don''t like it, return it and exchange it.

Don''t worry about what WF might think, worry more about what you think.
 
Date: 10/31/2008 6:17:01 PM
Author: joey_v
Why would you keep it if you are having doubts?


It doesn''t make sense to me why you''re willing to settle. If you don''t like the diamond and it''s within the 30d period, then return it and get yourself an eye clean one. This is once in a lifetime, do it the way you want to do it.


This is an easy answer for me, if you don''t like it, return it and exchange it.


Don''t worry about what WF might think, worry more about what you think.
Click to expand...

You make a simple, clear, and good point. But the reason I''m considering keeping it is b/c it is pretty small and I don''t think you''d be able to see it unless you were looking for it (hard to determine this though since I''m the only here and can''t get a second set of eyes to see it since this is a secret).

And another minor issue is that they currently don''t have any stones in the specs and price range I''m looking for. But I''m probably not proposing until next year so one may come up in the next couple of months. But for those who are familiar w/ WF policies in detail - since they offer a lifetime upgrade, even if I go past the 30 day inspection period, I could still exchange it after that right? Would there be a resetting fee in either case?
 
Denver, did you see the inclusion only after first spotting it in the viewer? Or could you find it without using the viewer at all?
 
as deco and others have said, once you see it through the loupe and you can afterward see it with your naked eyes doesn''t mean that it is not eyeclean.
 
Date: 10/31/2008 5:44:04 PM
Author:denverboy

but here''s the deal now... i''m happy w/ everything w/ the setting. And I''ve spent a large part of the day just staring at the ring - both to just look at it for fun and also to make sure nothing else is wrong. And then I pulled out the H&A viewer in the little kit you get and saw the arrows and also the inclusions b/c of the magnification. Then I put away the H&A viewer and look at the stone and ... uh oh.... I can see the inclusion.
Click to expand...

Neat, he said it here. He saw the inclusion first with the H&A viewer, then once he knows where it is he can see locate it with his naked eye.

I would say that is an eye-clean stone, just that now it is not longer mind-clean.
 
Date: 10/31/2008 5:44:04 PM
Author:denverboy
getting sick of my posts yet? cuz i am sick of posting =/

but here''s the deal now... i''m happy w/ everything w/ the setting. And I''ve spent a large part of the day just staring at the ring - both to just look at it for fun and also to make sure nothing else is wrong. And then I pulled out the H&A viewer in the little kit you get and saw the arrows and also the inclusions b/c of the magnification. Then I put away the H&A viewer and look at the stone and ... uh oh.... I can see the inclusion.

I was told this stone was completely eye clean from all distances and angles and I kept saying before purchasing the stone I wanted it to be COMPLETELY eye clean. Now granted it is very small, but I can still see it fairly easily while sitting at my desk typing this. This upsets me a bit. And I''m not sure what I should do since I''ve already sent the ring back to them once to fix the setting.

here''s a link to the stone again - the one that''s visible is the black inclusion under the table.

Urgh.. so now I''m debating if I should just keep it since it is really small or if I should switch out the stone for one that really is COMPLETELY eye clean.

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-1255843.htm

7.gif


I know I''m being picky, annoying, perfectionist, etc but for a one time purchase for an engagement ring that costs $1000''s ... I can''t help it
Click to expand...
Looking at the above it seems that you''d been staring at the ring for quite a long time and didn''t see the inclusion? It was only after you looked at it under magnification that you became aware of it and where it was which made it easier to find without magnification? I''m not sure any SI1 would bear up under that scrutiny. Once you find an inclusion under magnification you will nearly always be able to see it afterwards. If this is really going to concern you then you need to upgrade to a VS.
 
Date: 10/31/2008 6:48:36 PM
Author: JulieN
as deco and others have said, once you see it through the loupe and you can afterward see it with your naked eyes doesn''t mean that it is not eyeclean.
Click to expand...

That makes sense now and I guess I didn''t think about that difference earlier. I''m sure most people would be able to see this inclusion w/ the naked eye after seeing it through the loupe. But to find it without first seeing it through a loupe would be tough - still possible I think, but it would take a bit of time.

So let me just state that that is my misunderstand of the eye clean definition. And for any potential diamond buyer newbies... be aware of that difference! =P I guess another part of the definition is "how much knowledge of the inclusion is known before viewing the diamond (location, size, type)"
 
You do have an eye clean stone. But, like you, I don''t want to see anything in my engagement ring diamond from any angle, so I don''t even try to go the "eye clean SI1" route. I go directly to the VS2 grade, which, for the most part, truly are completely eye clean.

If your future wife won''t care, I''d keep the diamond. You can always upgrade her diamond on a future anniversary.
9.gif
 
Date: 10/31/2008 7:00:40 PM
Author: Fly Girl
You do have an eye clean stone. But, like you, I don't want to see anything in my engagement ring diamond from any angle, so I don't even try to go the 'eye clean SI1' route. I go directly to the VS2 grade, which, for the most part, truly are completely eye clean.


If your future wife won't care, I'd keep the diamond. You can always upgrade her diamond on a future anniversary.
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Click to expand...


Yeah I think I will keep this stone. And sorry this was just my misunderstanding of the eye-clean definition that I should have thought about earlier. I don't think she'll notice the inclusion, but if it becomes and issue later for whatever reason I may upgrade the stone to a higher clarity.

thanks for all the opinions and advice once again!

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cool, congrats. she'll love it. you can just tackle her if she ever goes near a loupe. (:
 
Glad to hear you are feeling better about the stone, though I do think it is wonderful that you want her to have the best possible stone.
 
I haven't read all the posts but my opinion is you have to happy with this purchase. Eye-clean does not mean the inclusion disappears or is invisible.

If it is going to bother you then upgrade to a better clarity and pay a little more. You would not be the first to do it. Now that you've seen the stone and the amazing ACA cut maybe you would be willing to go down in color and up in clarity. Or throw in a few more bucks and get a VS.

But don't be miserable because you can see the inclusion and nothing else. And don't feel like sending it back is being too picky. This is why it's nice to work with a vendor who has an upgrade policy. So you can upgrade if you choose.

PS I have a VVS1 and an I1. I love them both and think of them as unique in their own way. I actually like hunting for the inclusions.
 
I don''t have any idea how long you''d have to wait to find one, but it IS possible to have a completely eyeclean PERIOD SI1.

I know, because I have an SI2 and there are NO inclusions that can be seen without the aid of a loupe, and those are tiny clear bubbles, not carbon.

Just saying you don''t have to bump up to VS2 to avoid carbon.
 

I am surprised you can see the inclusion. I have 20/20 vision and I can NEVER seen any inclusions in my SI1 1.07, and .70 RB stones. In Both of them I need a 30x loupe to see them. My SI2 .71 Princess is eyeclean as well. I hope you don''t mind me asking if you are sure you are not picking up a reflection or something? I just expect an eyeclean stone to be eyeclean so I would not want one with a visible inclusion. That is just me though and I am no expert.



Lisa

 
Thats not really what eye clean means..
Lets remember it will be your girl, not you wearing the ring - chances are if you don''t point it out she may not ever see it.
I have a completely eyeclean SI1 ideal cut, and even though I know where the inclusions are I can''t see them during wear because the sparkle etc of the diamond gets in the way !
I think you''ll find if you start looking at the ring as a whole, sparkling, beautiful object it will help. just my 2c.
 
Yanno, I'd probably switch it out. Sure, it probably does fit the definition of eyeclean. But you can see it while sitting at your desk. We all have different vision- personally, I can see incredibly well up close, probably because I'm so dang nearsighted. Anyway, if you're like that it might nag at you endlessly; if you're a perfectionist, I'd bet it might.

If it's still in your return period, and you have options, why not just swap stones? You can find SI1s, and even SI2s, that are truly eyeclean even for those of us who can see *way* too well up close! And if you go with a similar size it should be no problem swapping out the stone.

And a black inclusion under the table would probably be one that would bug even me, I have to say. Feathers I can live with, but black peppery carbon bits, not so much... it could be not so much that you can see the inclusion, but the nature and location of it. Clear inclusions just blend in so much better with the stone. So perhaps even if you discover you're one of the few who can spot the inclusion in just about any SI stone, it could just be that a different sort of inclusion would be less annoying to look at.

Good luck! If you can sleep on it for a bit before deciding, so much the better.
 
Date: 10/31/2008 7:11:07 PM
Author: denverboy

Date: 10/31/2008 7:00:40 PM
Author: Fly Girl
You do have an eye clean stone. But, like you, I don''t want to see anything in my engagement ring diamond from any angle, so I don''t even try to go the ''eye clean SI1'' route. I go directly to the VS2 grade, which, for the most part, truly are completely eye clean.


If your future wife won''t care, I''d keep the diamond. You can always upgrade her diamond on a future anniversary.
9.gif
Click to expand...


Yeah I think I will keep this stone. And sorry this was just my misunderstanding of the eye-clean definition that I should have thought about earlier. I don''t think she''ll notice the inclusion, but if it becomes and issue later for whatever reason I may upgrade the stone to a higher clarity.

thanks for all the opinions and advice once again!

1.gif
Click to expand...
It does sound as if you have an eyeclean diamond - and you did do your best to describe your expectations as accurately as possible to WF. However the question is - is this an eyeclean diamond to you? If not then you could certainly think about changing it but if you decide the little inclusion is something you can live with, then that is also fine. It completely depends on your comfort level, if you do decide you want to change the diamond I know WF will do the best they can to find you another stone which could suit your needs.
 
you have stunning stone at a good price and a beautiful ring--personally i wouldnt spend any more for a stone and ring that will look no different. i have a vvvs2 and a vs2 stone now that i know where the stuff is i can find it.........i have had people say oh my god is that flawless........................
 
Date: 10/31/2008 11:51:11 PM
Author: LisaRN

I am surprised you can see the inclusion. I have 20/20 vision and I can NEVER seen any inclusions in my SI1 1.07, and .70 RB stones. In Both of them I need a 30x loupe to see them. My SI2 .71 Princess is eyeclean as well. I hope you don''t mind me asking if you are sure you are not picking up a reflection or something? I just expect an eyeclean stone to be eyeclean so I would not want one with a visible inclusion. That is just me though and I am no expert.





Lisa

Click to expand...

Yeah it''s definitely not a reflection - it is the inclusion.

I''ve thought about it some more ... and because I''m not proposing for a few months, I think my plan will be to keep an eye on their ACA stock and if they get any new stones in my spec/price range then I will consider upgrading/switching stones. And just to avoid any eyeclean risks I''d probably only feel comfortable going w/ a VS2 if I were to be switching stones. And I''d also have to consider the costs involved - I''m not sure what the shipping and resetting costs would be. I''ll contact WF next week and ask them about this.

All your comments have been very helpful. It seems like there are definitely SI1 stones that are completely eye clean even if you know where the inclusion is .. and I guess that''s what I thought I was getting. But it also seems like the definition of "eye clean" doesn''t include knowledge of where the inclusion is so that makes it a bit tricky.
 
denverboy,

Your title says "sending it back to WF again." So you had it once, were unhappy with the setting, sent it back (without noticing the inclusion,) and got it back, and now see the inclusion after viewing it with the loupe?

Also, what type of vision does your FI have?
 
Date: 11/1/2008 4:00:32 PM
Author: JulieN
denverboy,


Your title says ''sending it back to WF again.'' So you had it once, were unhappy with the setting, sent it back (without noticing the inclusion,) and got it back, and now see the inclusion after viewing it with the loupe?


Also, what type of vision does your FI have?
Click to expand...

When I first got the ring, there was a black spot on the setting and looked like it was missing a bead of metal to hold the melee in place. I looked at the ring for maybe 10 minutes, and immediately noticed that black spot on the setting so most of my attention was focused on the setting, not the center stone. And honestly since I thought that "eye clean from all distances and angles" meant I wouldn''t be able to see the inclusion at all with the naked eye... I didn''t even bother trying to find the inclusion w/ the naked eye. WF wanted to get the setting back quickly to fix it up so it was sent back the same day. So at this point I hadn''t even pulled out the H&A viewer.

Then when I got the ring back again and the setting was all fine, I used the H&A viewer to see the arrows, and also noticed the inclusions while doing so. Then when I put away the viewer and looked at the stone I realized I could still see the inclusion with the naked eye - which is not what I expected (probably my misunderstanding of the eye clean definition or maybe a miscommunication b/n me and WF).

My FI wears contacts and with them on I think her vision is near perfect. And something I haven''t mentioned is that the inclusion is pretty easily noticeable from the side view - and I did want it to be eye clean from all angles including the side view and I''m 99% sure I mentioned this to WF. So although she may not notice it easily from the top view... I could definitely see it being an issue if one day she looks at the stone from the side view and says "hey whats that spot in the middle".
 
HI:

I have a VS2 ACA that is set in a pendant and is certainly eye clean---but the inclusion can be easily seen with a loop. Dead center. Here is the link to my thread and the stone''s info is 1/2 way down the page.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/so-far-so-good.72524/

You might need to go to a VS1 or better if this is an "issue" for you.

cheers--Sharon
 
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