ugh, so frustrated - am I wrong?

[mjertl]

So, a family member of mine got married in a small courthouse ceremony last summer. Only immediate family members were invited, and they were planning a bigger wedding celebration with a larger guest list for this upcoming summer.
Well, a month after the legal wedding, her husband died suddenly. Very sad.
It's now 8 months later, and she posts a long vent on FB, complaining that all her family and friends didn't give her presents for her wedding.
I do feel very sorry for her that her husband died, it's sad, but putting those feelings aside... - is it considered necessary/appropriate to get a family member a wedding gift if you're not invited to the wedding? I had been planning to get her something for the larger celebration which I would (likely) be invited to, so did not send her something for the wedding which I was not invited to.
I feel like if it were customary for everyone to give presents for an "official" wedding that they're not invited to, and later for a larger party that they are invited to, then everyone would have a small wedding first, because you'd get twice the gifts...
Don't get me wrong, I am sad for her that the larger party will never take place because her husband passed away, but I just find it kind of selfish that she is irritated all the people she didn't invite to her wedding didn't give her presents. I am engaged right now, and I hardly even expect everyone coming to our wedding to give us presents, much less people we don't invite...
Furthermore, she just bought a house, and was complaining no one gave her housewarming presents. When I bought my first house, no one bought me housewarming presents either. I didn't cry about it...

 

[madelise]

It sounds odd that she wants a wedding present, and that's what she's been thinking about other than her now passed husband.. Do you think she's trying to divert her emotions onto something tangible?

 

[Enerchi]

How sad for that poor woman - to lose her husband a mere month after marriage. And the stress of moving into a new house so soon after his passing. Poor thing...

BUT

ummm- what etiquette book is she reading from that says people are 'expected' to be giving gifts post wedding they are not invited to, and 'expected' to give housewarming gifts? Gifts are given from the heart, to people you care about, because you want to give them something that you hope will bring them joy. Expectations like what she is expressing (via FB no less, which is not the best place to vent, as 'the internet never forgets') seem based in anger. She is probably still grieving that horrendous sudden loss so some excuse can be granted but if it were me, I'd just let some of what she is expressing roll off me. No sense stirring up the pot. Let closer relatives deal with her and what is upsetting her. Hopefully she has supports in place to cope with all she's going thru.

 

[perry]

No you are not wrong.

My wedding is in a couple weeks. We only invited immediate family and close friends (16 total invitations).

I have only had one person who was not invited ask if they could send a gift.

There is no expectation of gifts for people not invited.

Truth be told; I also do not understand the concept of having two weddings. I have had a sister who found out that she and her boyfriend had to be married to move into university supplied houseing (for graduate students who also taught); and got married that day. She held a reception party a month or so later; but it was not a wedding.

I also know of a few cases where the couple got married at far distance, and held a 2nd reception party in the area for those who could not travel to the wedding. But, again; these were not wedding - and they occured within a month or so of the actual wedding (as soon as things could be reasonably scheduled).



Have a great day,

Perry

 

[VRBeauty]

I see a wedding gift as something you get to wish the new couple well... it's not necessarily related to being invited to the party (any more than being invited obligates you give a gift). That's especially true if it's a) and elopement and b) someone you're close to. Of course the fact that they were planning to hold a larger celebration is a complicating factor in this case.

 

[mjertl]

well, she's definitely expressed lots of grief over his loss as well. It has been 8 months now, which is obviously not long enough to get over losing someone so important to you, but it's given her time to vent about losing him, which she's (very appropriately) done. And I do feel bad for her too, don't get me wrong - I can't imagine losing my fiance, now or ever I just found the particular vent today very irksome. I wasn't invited to the wedding, but I absolutely wouldve gotten her a present for the celebration I was invited to. I don't think etiquette dictates you buy people presents for celebrations you're not invited to, but I could be wrong. But I kinda think I'm not...

 

[Enerchi]

I kinda think you are not as well!

Don't feel guilty - you don't have to give a gift even if you WERE invited to the wedding, it is customary but not compulsory.

 

[mjertl]

I see a wedding gift as something you get to wish the new couple well... it's not necessarily related to being invited to the party (any more than being invited obligates you give a gift).

that is a good point.
she is my cousin, but we have never been particularly close. I wished her well, just didn't send her something. I guess I am feeling bad because I don't want to be a contributor to her pain.

 

[Gypsy]

I see a wedding gift as something you get to wish the new couple well... it's not necessarily related to being invited to the party (any more than being invited obligates you give a gift). That's especially true if it's a) and elopement and b) someone you're close to. Of course the fact that they were planning to hold a larger celebration is a complicating factor in this case.

I agree with this whole post, but especially the highlighted part. And I would have held off the present giving for the larger event too, and would be feeling as out to sea as you sound in your place.

That said, expecting presents AND posting about it is rude. Period. I never give presents with the expectation I will get one in return. If I give a wedding present it's because I want to celebrate the marriage with the couple. If I give a housewarming present it's because I want to celebrate the new home with the couple. The first time I go to anyone's house (unless it is something unexpected like dropping them off after a party) I try to bring a plant or a bottle of wine. That's MY decision. I don't expect anyone else to do the same thing. It sounds like in her grief she has decided that being a brat is okay. Hopefully she'll get. over. it.

 

[decodelighted]

This isn't about presents, IMHO. She's feeling all sorts of loss & disappointment about how her life *is* as opposed to how she expected it to be. I can't IMAGINE how traumatizing what she's been through is. Sounds like a cry for attention because she's feeling lonely & bitter & heartbroken.

I'd try to concentrate on that possibility. The possibility that she might just need to know people care about her *emotionally* ... not through physical manifestations of gifts. And reach out to her to offer support in that way. There's plenty of time in life to think she's a jerk if it turns out she's really a selfish jerk. Eight months in to widowhood? Stress of moving into a new house? Give her a break.

I will say that people respond to different types of support differently depending on their makeup. Look at the book love languages -- some people really do appreciate physical tokens more than words or hugs. Maybe she's one of those?

 

[Gypsy]

This isn't about presents, IMHO. She's feeling all sorts of loss & disappointment about how her life *is* as opposed to how she expected it to be. I can't IMAGINE how traumatizing what she's been through is. Sounds like a cry for attention because she's feeling lonely & bitter & heartbroken.

I'd try to concentrate on that possibility. The possibility that she might just need to know people care about her *emotionally* ... not through physical manifestations of gifts. And reach out to her to offer support in that way. There's plenty of time in life to think she's a jerk if it turns out she's really a selfish jerk. Eight months in to widowhood? Stress of moving into a new house? Give her a break.

I will say that people respond to different types of support differently depending on their makeup. Look at the book love languages -- some people really do appreciate physical tokens more than words or hugs. Maybe she's one of those?

Great advice.

There are people who need tangible things as reminders of that people care. Also maybe she expected more flowers, cards and hasn't received many for the death of her husband and can't complain about that, so she's complaining about these things.

If you want her to feel better and are close enough to her, and care enough can you send her an Edible Arrangement to brighten her day: http://www.ediblearrangements.com/fruit-bouquet-detail.aspx?ArrangementID=424 they are really cute and they make me and everyone I know, small.

 

[Jennifer W]

She's grieving. Probably doesn't know what she's saying half the time. Probably feels like she's completely alone in the world and posts stuff on facebook which, if she was in a better place, she'd recognise wasn't appropriate. She's hurting, probably more than I can even imagine. I'd cut her some slack, then some more, then some more. 8 months in from the loss of a spouse is a particularly dreadful time (I'm watching a friend go through this right now and it's awful). It's far enough away from his death that other people have moved on, but for her, it's all fresh, raw and new. Worse, it's fresh, raw and new to her and old news to everyone else, even with the best will in the world.

I don't know what I would do in that situation, but lashing out about stupid stuff doesn't sound out of the question, and it sounds like maybe that's what she's doing. She's still in the 'emotional first-aid' zone. I'd send her a gift, if I thought it would help.

 

[VRBeauty]

I see a wedding gift as something you get to wish the new couple well... it's not necessarily related to being invited to the party (any more than being invited obligates you give a gift).

that is a good point.
she is my cousin, but we have never been particularly close. I wished her well, just didn't send her something. I guess I am feeling bad because I don't want to be a contributor to her pain.

For what it's worth mjertl, under the circumstances I'd be in the same position you're in... in a dilema because I was planning to give a gift at the reception.

I think everyone else is spot-on though... her facebook message probably has a lot more to do with grieving than with gifts. She'd probably really appreciate something - be it a note or flowers or even a visit - to let her know that you're thinking of her.

 

[Pandora II]

Is this out of character for her? If so then I agree with others that it is part of the grief she is going through. Don't try to 'make up' for not sending a gift but maybe do something else for her 'if' you feel that you would like to (ie not out of some sense of guilt or whatever).

If it is her ususal modus operandi then I would just cut her some slack for the same reasons.

ETA: No you did nothing wrong. I would have waited till the second celebration to give a gift. I also rarely give house-warming gifts unless the people a) host a house warming party or b) I am invited over for dinner. But maybe that is just the UK where it's not expected to give gifts when you move house?

 

[Haven]

If I were in her position, I would hope that the people who love me would be gracious enough to overlook any bizarre behavior of mine after I lost the love of my life. I would certainly do the same for those I love.

 

[JewelFreak]

If you're not invited to a wedding, you have no obligation to give a present. If you're invited & send regrets, you also needn't give anything. You always can, if you want, of course. You have not done anything impolite here. You sent condolences, which she should appreciate & probably will in time.

Nobody is obligated to give a housewarming present even if they attend a housewarming party. The point of those is to literally "warm your house" by having friends visit. Throwing a party as a way to get stuff is pretty materialistic.

I feel very sad for her; it must have been a horrible shock & grief. And there she is, in her new house...alone. This could be transferrence -- anger that the life she expected doesn't look at all like the one she got. It's a tragic occurance, but she sure as heck could have expressed it more appropriately....or kept it to herself. Decodelighted makes a really good point -- if this is out of character, let it go. If not, if she's usually that superficial, let it go anyway & keep your distance if you don't want to be big buddies. No gift you give her would really matter or make her feel better longterm; only time will do that, cliche that it is.

--- Laurie

 

[iheartscience]

If I were in her position, I would hope that the people who love me would be gracious enough to overlook any bizarre behavior of mine after I lost the love of my life. I would certainly do the same for those I love.

Ditto this.

 

[Lottie]

Probably, she is just feeling really lonely, bitter and hard done by. Wedding season will begin in the next few months, what should be happening is that she and her husband should be enjoying their first year of marriage, instead she will most likely be invited to a few weddings she won't want to go to (which will probably have gift lists attached - maybe thats what has upset her) and in a few months there will be a wedding anniversary that she won't be able to celebrate.

I don't think its appropriate to expect wedding gifts either but eight months is just a drop in the ocean in terms of grief for someone like her. Instead of buying her a gift, how about approaching her and asking her how she is and if she needs some support? No-one ever knows what to say to grieving people so maybe she just wants a bit of attention.

BTW I don't think you have anything to feel guilty about at all.

 

[QueenB29]

Is this "normal" behavior for her? If not, and you're close to your aunt and uncle (her parents) or one of your other cousins (her siblings), I might have a chat with them about how you're so worried about her. Every family is different, of course, but that's how the situation would be handled in mine. She may need a lot of (or a lot more) counseling to deal with her loss, and her immediate family would be in the best position to get her the help she needs. Right now, they may be so close to the situation and so focused on helping her day-to-day that huge changes in her behavior could have just escaped them.

If it is "normal" for her, however, I would just roll my eyes and ignore it.

 

[Imdanny]

This isn't about presents, IMHO. She's feeling all sorts of loss & disappointment about how her life *is* as opposed to how she expected it to be.

This.

 

[ame]

Uhh, once the husband passed, the marriage "ended" if you will. Furthermore, per my Emily Post Wedding Etiquette Book, if you didn't receive an invite, you aren't obligated to send a gift to a couple just married, it's NICE, but it's not required. She didn't have a wedding for everyone prior to his passing, and unless she sent out invites for the hometown reception....she's sh!t out of luck in this wedding gift thing. She's being particularly greedy and the fact that her husband's passing doesn't eclipse the gift grab is pretty disgusting.

IIRC "housewarming gifts" are also a non-requirement.

 

[ame]

If you're not invited to a wedding, you have no obligation to give a present. If you're invited & send regrets, you also needn't give anything.

--- Laurie

That's actually not true. If you are invited, whether you can attend or not, you are supposed to send a gift. You're not obligated either way, but proper etiquette states that if you are invited, you send a gift, regardless of whether you can attend or not.

 

[JewelFreak]

This from Miss Manners:

"Getting married does not grant people license to distribute bills to those who are minding their business. A wedding invitation is merely an offer of hospitality.

As such, it must be answered, one way or the other, and it should also prompt a letter wishing the couple happiness.

There is nothing wrong with also sending a present, but that is certainly not required."

 

[MichelleCarmen]

If I were in her position, I would hope that the people who love me would be gracious enough to overlook any bizarre behavior of mine after I lost the love of my life. I would certainly do the same for those I love.

Yes, exactly what Haven said!

The gal obviously is still grieving the loss of her spouse and also, and sadly, friends/family move on to other things in their lives and your cousin may be feeling very lonely right now. She had her life plans layed out and things went horribly wrong and she's now living in a home by herself. She probably could care less about housewarming presents and is more thinking about how empty the house is w/out the man she planned to spend the rest of her life in it with.

ETA - I don't think you should apply ettiquette in this situation...there were a few comments about sending her a gift. I do agree with this. Sometimes you have to toss ettiquette aside and do something that could make a person feel better! Send her a small plant she can put in her yard.

 

[Haven]

If I were in her position, I would hope that the people who love me would be gracious enough to overlook any bizarre behavior of mine after I lost the love of my life. I would certainly do the same for those I love.

Yes, exactly what Haven said!

The gal obviously is still grieving the loss of her spouse and also, and sadly, friends/family move on to other things in their lives and your cousin may be feeling very lonely right now. She had her life plans layed out and things went horribly wrong and she's now living in a home by herself. She probably could care less about housewarming presents and is more thinking about how empty the house is w/out the man she planned to spend the rest of her life in it with.

ETA - I don't think you should apply ettiquette in this situation...there were a few comments about sending her a gift. I do agree with this. Sometimes you have to toss ettiquette aside and do something that could make a person feel better! Send her a small plant she can put in her yard.

I completely agree. The purpose of etiquette standards is to help people understand what behaviors are expected or typical so they can avoid uncomfortable situations or hurting others. Etiquette should never be used as a tool to look down on someone or judge a person's behavior--then you are using it completely against its purpose.

I have to say, any true devotee to etiquette would respond to a mourning widow with grace and support, regardless of how *selfish* her behavior may seem. MC is so right--people move on after a death. They mourn with you at the funeral, they show up for whatever post-interment custom your culture dictates, but then they taper off and return to their lives as usual. And then you are left all alone and your life turns into BEFORE and AFTER. And oftentimes, people just can't help but acting very strange for a while until they find their place in the after. But until then, I hope this woman has people around her who love her and will give her the support she so obviously needs.

 

[yssie]

Oh, god. This is the stuff of nightmares. Jennifer, Haven, I think you've hit on it exactly. I don't for a second think that this is about the gifts themselves - it's everything to do with the loss of the reason for the celebration they'd have commemorated. I lost a good friend several years ago and I was a wreck for months... I can't begin to imagine the pain of losing DH, and as a newlywed, too

She's grieving. Probably doesn't know what she's saying half the time. Probably feels like she's completely alone in the world and posts stuff on facebook which, if she was in a better place, she'd recognise wasn't appropriate. She's hurting, probably more than I can even imagine. I'd cut her some slack, then some more, then some more. 8 months in from the loss of a spouse is a particularly dreadful time (I'm watching a friend go through this right now and it's awful). It's far enough away from his death that other people have moved on, but for her, it's all fresh, raw and new. Worse, it's fresh, raw and new to her and old news to everyone else, even with the best will in the world.

I'd send something. Not necessarily a gift - definitely not a wedding gift, or a "grieving" gift, but something that shows that you're thinking about her. You don't understand what she's going through - I think only someone who has been there herself could ever really understand what she's going through - and she knows that, and maybe she's feeling resentful, but it sounds like she'd probably appreciate a token of empathy anyway. I like the idea of a plant. Maybe a favourite book that you could chat about later?

 

[Porridge]

Oh god that poor girl! I couldn't agree more with Jennifer, MC, Haven, Yssie etc. She must be so heartbroken and lonely. I agree, if this is unlike her I would very much doubt it's about this gifts and more an expression of grief. She must be so sad for the life she has lost.

It would be amazing to send her something thoughtful to show her you're thinking of her, if that's what she needs right now. Maybe a cheerful housewarming card, or even a gift. It doesn't have to be expensive.

 

[mrswahs]

No you are not wrong.

My wedding is in a couple weeks. We only invited immediate family and close friends (16 total invitations).

I have only had one person who was not invited ask if they could send a gift.

There is no expectation of gifts for people not invited.

Truth be told; I also do not understand the concept of having two weddings. I have had a sister who found out that she and her boyfriend had to be married to move into university supplied houseing (for graduate students who also taught); and got married that day. She held a reception party a month or so later; but it was not a wedding.

I also know of a few cases where the couple got married at far distance, and held a 2nd reception party in the area for those who could not travel to the wedding. But, again; these were not wedding - and they occured within a month or so of the actual wedding (as soon as things could be reasonably scheduled).



Have a great day,

Perry

We did the latter, we had a small wedding in Hawaii (parents only) and then a larger reception with friends and family when we returned. Even so, presents aren't required of guests who ARE invited, let alone those who aren't.

Like Perry, we only got one gift from someone who wasnt invited (to our reception) and that was a client from work.

 

[Amber St. Clare]

It sounds odd that she wants a wedding present, and that's what she's been thinking about other than her now passed husband.. Do you think she's trying to divert her emotions onto something tangible?

That's what I immediately thought. She's probably in shock and not thinking clearly.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

No you are not wrong.

My wedding is in a couple weeks. We only invited immediate family and close friends (16 total invitations).

I have only had one person who was not invited ask if they could send a gift.

There is no expectation of gifts for people not invited.

Truth be told; I also do not understand the concept of having two weddings. I have had a sister who found out that she and her boyfriend had to be married to move into university supplied houseing (for graduate students who also taught); and got married that day. She held a reception party a month or so later; but it was not a wedding.

I also know of a few cases where the couple got married at far distance, and held a 2nd reception party in the area for those who could not travel to the wedding. But, again; these were not wedding - and they occured within a month or so of the actual wedding (as soon as things could be reasonably scheduled).



Have a great day,

Perry

We did the latter, we had a small wedding in Hawaii (parents only) and then a larger reception with friends and family when we returned. Even so, presents aren't required of guests who ARE invited, let alone those who aren't.

Like Perry, we only got one gift from someone who wasnt invited (to our reception) and that was a client from work.

The issue really isn't the gifts, though! The gal is venting on FB but really something much deeper is going on. I don't see how a couple who had a destination wedding and then went on to live a happy life could justify whining on FB, but the gal lost her husband a month after they married and she's probably a totally wreck and everyone is off posting their happy FB pictures and that may even compound the grief experienced when she looks on there and sees all her "friends" moving on with their lives AND their husbands, kids, etc.

There's really no comparison for us typical destination wedding couples who now live our regular married lives!