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Two diamonds for inspection - HCA scores differ, hope they''re eye clean!

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rogue

rogue

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 15, 2006
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180
Hi guys,

Alright, I have two diamonds coming to me for inspection - one Monday and one Tuesday. Hopefully one of these will be it! Both received a GIA "excellent" cut grade and both receive a 1B grade using the old AGA DIY cut calculator (not sure if there is a new calculator?). However, major difference in HCA score. Can''t wait to compare them both side by side. I hope they''re eye clean!!

Diamond 1: 1.83 G SI1 (was told by detail-oriented and honest jeweler I trust that it is eye clean from top, cloud reflects dark visible from side)

Measurements: 7.83 - 7.92 x 4.91 mm
Depth: 62.3%
Table: 56%
Crown angle: 34.5°
Pavilion angle: 41.6°
Crown height: 15.5%
Pavilion depth: 44%
Girdle: Thin to medium, faceted
Star: 50%
Lower half: 80%
Culet: None
Symmetry: VG
Polish: VG

Results from HCA:
Light Return Good
Fire Fair
Scintillation Fair
Spread or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 5.4 - Good - Only if price is your main criterion

Diamond 2: 1.70 E SI1 (random supplier says eye clean, but who knows -- cert shows crystal or cloud right under table, plus a crystal, feather and indented natural that I couldn''t make out on plot due to poor fax)

Measurements: 7.75 - 7.79 x 4.64 mm
Depth: 59.7%
Table: 59%
Crown angle: 34.0°
Pavilion angle: 40.6°
Crown height: 14%
Pavilion depth: 43%
Girdle: Thin to slightly thick, faceted
Star: 55%
Lower half: 80%
Culet: None
Symmetry: VG
Polish: VG

Results from HCA:
Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Excellent
Spread or diameter for weight Excellent
Total Visual Performance 1 - Excellent within TIC range

Thoughts??
 
It is always interesting when you can compare the diamonds in person and see what your eyes say versus the numbers. Let us know what you think when you get them both.
 
i already posted my thoughts on the ring of death one (the first one) in your other thread...the second one is more promising than the first one for sure, but i am also not a fan of 60/60 stones personally...having had a 61 tabled stone before and sacrificed a bit on fire. but you may visually like it. it will be interesting as the first one will probably be fairly dark in the middle while the 60/60 will probably be a much white brighter stone.

are these really your only two options???
 
Sigh, it''s been a too long process in search of a great ring. It''s been difficult to find a stone in the size range of 1.7 to 2 under $16K, and the fiance really does prefer I get a largish ring (the one he proposed with -- long returned -- was a 2.2 F SI2 but not eye clean to me). If I get them both and neither work, it''s back to the drawing board, but I really want to love one of these. I''ll post pics of both on Tuesday.
 
It will be interesting to compare them, but it would seem that #2 would be much better than #1.
 
It does seem that way as far as cut and all the brilliance/fire/scintillation that goes with it, but I''m not sure how "eye-clean" #2 will be. The certificate scan wasn''t very clear and it has some potentially visible nasty inclusions listed (crystals, feathers, clouds, indented naturals)...
 
Thanks for the post Belle, I don''t think I can do a J. I see some color in well cut Hs that would bother me, so I''m trying to get at least a G.
 
Date: 7/15/2006 10:23:13 PM
Author: rogue
Thanks for the post Belle, I don''t think I can do a J. I see some color in well cut Hs that would bother me, so I''m trying to get at least a G.
Click to expand...
i understand.
2.gif
i have a ''g'' myself but i have seen that 1.79 and it is beautiful in it''s own right.
best of luck in your search!
 
Rogue,

Not sure, but I see James Allen is advertising two you that probably meet your criteria, that he probably hasn''t seen, but you may want to ask him to call them in. AGS has already seen them and called them triple 0. If they''re eye clean, maybe that''s all you''ll need to know. There''s this one, and this one (where the latter is probably incorrectly described as with a "fair" cut because they''ve inverted the real values for table and depth).
 
Is there a return policy? I think stone #2 is nice but I''m on of those 60/60 fans (although my diamond is AGS0 only because of price/pickins). My stone is SI2 and the inclusion IS under the table and is visible to me but only very close up. I doubt anyone would be able to see it even if I told them where it is and I mean my non diamond obsessed friends. So technically my stone isn''t eye clean but it sure does SHOUT to me so I don''t care.
 
Oh also wanted to say that I had a SI1 that had a visible inclusion to me under the table. Don't mean to scare you because if you want purely eye clean, just wanted to warn you. I'm talking a tiny black spec that you have to squint to see on both stones I'm referring to. Some people it bothers, others it doesn't. Ok I'll shut up now.

My current stone is also an E and the color is AMAZING--or should I say NON color. I'll take the microscopic black spec for the E LOL.
 
Oh I can''t shut up. I really like the 2nd James Allen stone posted.
 
Thanks for the posts marriahlyn and Regular Guy. I hope to examine these two stones, compare with a couple stones in particular at SuperbCert (which has been closed for vacation, Barry just emailed me), and then after that, if necessary, order from Whiteflash or the like (there''s a similar stone to the James Allen stones you pointed out at Whiteflash that is a 1.63 carat but has a very similar mm spread). I''m so weary of the shipping and returning by regular USPS...I can only handle so many outstanding stones floating around at once!

As for the return policies of these two stones, stone 1 is through Diamond Source of Virginia, a diamond broker of sorts that tries to find stones within your parameters, orders a particular stone from a supplier, takes a look at it, describes it to customer and ships it out to the customer (with a loop) before charging them for it for a 2 business day inspection. If you like, you pay; if not, you return it FedEx with their insurance carrier. They pay the shipping costs both ways. It has been fantastic working with Denny Reinke, excellent service. Unfortunately, darn HCA score. Denny didn''t notice any dark table leakage, but I guess I''ll see when I receive it. Stone 2 is one that I purchased from Blue Nile. I don''t think I mind the 60/60 white light versus fire tradeoff, so if it happens to be eye clean or something otherwise acceptable to me, it would be a fantastic deal. I wouldn''t have to go through the USPS return (although there is 30 days), I''d have a phenomenally cut diamond, and some 52,000 miles to boot!
 
HI there,
Okay I am confused: stone 2''s HCA says that the fire will be excellent but you think because of the bigger table it will actually be less firey? How does that figure?

Thanks,

Anika
 
I have never seen a diamond get all ex''s on the HCA. Even my AGS0 didn''t get all of them. I think #2 will be fine if you like it. It''s a beautiful stone and no sense returning it if you like it. Like I said, I had a stone with similar parameters and I loved it. I know it wasn''t the choice for all PS''ers but it didn''t matter to me. We beat the numbers to death here and like someone said on a post, eliminate beautiful stones. Remember again that I''m a fan on the 60/60, my stone shined like mad even in a bezel setting. I also have conformed to the color war, I prefer D-F for engagement rings, although if I could get a 2 carat, I''d go to J or K LOL. I think your choice is fine and you have a beautiful diamond on your hands. If you love it, don''t overanalyze it as you might talk yourself out of something you love just because the numbers aren''t exactly PERFECT.

If you are questioning, maybe you should check it next to the 2nd JA stone. I''ve never been able to check diamonds side by side and would love to. I wonder if I''d really see the difference and I doubt it. I have a 1.02 and the area where I live, I haven''t seen any stones as wonderful as mine for sparkle and color. VERY VERY VERY few are even of the size mine is at 1ct and nothing is as beautiful. My best friend whom is wealthy is the only person whom I''ve seen with a bigger diamond in my social circle. Hers is 1.80 and she could afford more. It''s an SI3 and I would never go for that and I don''t feel at all my stone is inferior. She also has a 3ct in Tacori and the stone is horrendous..........in terms of cut, not clarity cuz I never asked about it. It might be a cz because it''s dead.

What I''m trying to say is that 1.83 is a VERY respectable size and the stone is beautiful. However, some on here get bigger/better cut diamonds because of their social circle. I have not had that problem whatsoever but I''m not sure where you live. I think you should try to put your mind at rest and set that BN diamond. I know people on here will disagree but I''d take it anyday!!

I''m long winded sorry.
 
Date: 7/16/2006 12:20:44 AM
Author: rogue

As for the return policies of these two stones, stone 1 is through Diamond Source of Virginia, a diamond broker of sorts that tries to find stones within your parameters, orders a particular stone from a supplier, takes a look at it, describes it to customer and ships it out to the customer (with a loop) before charging them for it for a 2 business day inspection. If you like, you pay; if not, you return it FedEx with their insurance carrier. They pay the shipping costs both ways. It has been fantastic working with Denny Reinke, excellent service. Unfortunately, darn HCA score. Denny didn''t notice any dark table leakage, but I guess I''ll see when I receive it.
Click to expand...
Rogue,

Just curious...re Diamond Source of VA...did you discuss with them any of your anticipated anxiety, vis-a-vis the HCA? I don''t think they''d invested in any proportion measuring devices, though I could be wrong. But, now, ostensibly, in their acquisition of diamonds with GIA certs, that work is now done for them.

If you haven''t discussed this with them, I hope you will. I wonder how the ideas discussed on this board influences how they do business.

Thanks!
 
I did discuss my anxiety with them, however, I only ran the numbers after they shipped it. They noted that HCA is a valuable tool and gives an indication of potential possibilities of the stone''s visual performance, though it is important to note that not all the diamond info is taken into account considering the use of average measurements. They recognize a correlation between GIA''s excellent and AGS'' ideal cut grades with a high HCA score, but they seem to rely more on the labs'' assessment of the cut than the HCA score itself. As such, they do not use the HCA in their business.
 
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