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Turns out stone is NOT and excellent cut

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first123

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 18, 2008
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Ok so I had WF take in a virtual stone. Everything looked great. It is a 1.67ct H VS2. The few sites I saw it listed on had it listed as a GIA Excellent cut. Once I got to see the actual grading report it turns out the stone is in fact graded "very good." Even the HCA looks incredible (below). I cant find any flaws with this stone except the "surprise" grading. The bank wire price from WF is $13,047 which is also perfect for my price range compared to other stones I have looked at.

My main concern is performance and my question is; Can a GIA very good cut stone perform as well as if not better than an excellent cut?? Or should I keep looking?

Depth % 61.3
Table % 56
Crown Angle % 34
Pavilion Angle % 40.6

Here are the HCA results:

Light Return: Excellent
Fire: Excellent
Scintillation: Excellent
Spread: Very Good
Total Visual Performance 0.6 - Excellent
within TIC range

Thank you again for all your support.
 
Did WF give you the reason for the VG cut grade? What are the polish and symmetry grades and girdle thickness, plus diameter measurement? Do you have an Idealscope for the diamond? Certainly a VG can perform beautifully, if WF still gave it the thumbs up, then it is definitely worth considering.
 
That happened to someone else I think too. But I think maybe when they tracked theirs on the GIA website it said very good, not excellent. Not sure about the details, but regardless, your very good cut beats the hell out of my excellent cut on the HCA. I''d probably go with it!
 
GIA will ding the stone on cut for a thick girdle even if all other angles are perfect. As Lorelei mentioned what is the girdle thickness?

If it is just the girdle then you don''t need to worry as I have asked this question before on PS and the consensus was that girdle thickness, although impacting spread, does not affect the light return of the diamond.
 
I put your numbers into the GIA facetware cut calculator with standard lgf and star (as I don''t have that info) and a medium girdle and the cut grade came back Excellent. Try it here:

GIA Facetware tool

You can change parameters to find out what is affecting the cut grade.
 
Yes, a GIA-Very Good can perform as well or better than a GIA-Excellent. It will depend on the stone and what you mean by ''perform''. Most Eightstars, for example, are graded Very Good by GIA and a lot of people, including me, love ''em.

If you can’t figure out using the facetware tool what was responsible for the downgrade, call up the lab with the report number and ask. They’re reasonably forthcoming in answering questions like this.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver
 
Dave Atlas was motivated to I believe confirm this as well in a thread he initiated recently, but where I think his intentions to clarify went a bit awry.
 
The GIA report has the girdle as thin. Right next to thin it reads "medium faceted." Sorry I didnt include that to begin with, but does that help?

Cheers
 
AND it has excellent polish and very good symmetry.
 
OK so I think I figured it out. The star is 60% and not 55%. Wehn I ran it, it came back as VG, and when I re-ran it with a star of 55% it came back as excellent. Since I have no idea what star % is and it''s affect on sparkle, that does me little good.
 
Date: 7/17/2008 1:46:54 PM
Author: first123
AND it has excellent polish and very good symmetry.
Click to expand...
That would be why it didn't get an Excellent.
 
I wouldn''t worry about it, the specs suggest it should be a gorgeous stone. The difference between VG/EX polish or symmetry is rarely noticeable to the eye.
 
Date: 7/17/2008 3:28:16 PM
Author: Lorelei
Date: 7/17/2008 1:46:54 PM

Author: first123

AND it has excellent polish and very good symmetry.
Click to expand...

That would be why it didn''t get an Excellent.
Click to expand...

Lorelei- I hate to disagree with you, but you can still have VG polish and symmetry and still get an excellent cut grade from GIA. I''ve attached my own GIA report to show this.

I''d have to say that the star% probably is the culprit here. I don''t know what the star % does either, so I''m at a loss as to why that would give you a VG instead of excellent.

GIA_excellent_cut_report.jpg
 
Yes DM, I am checking around as something wasn't adding up, so I don't know why, unless there was brillianteering on the report which could lower the cut grade or some other reason. WF should be able to advise in any case.
 
Ok so I just got off the phone with Bob at WF (the gemoligist) who used to work at GIA. He said it was just one of those things that GIA rejects but has little/no affect on the stone''s performance. Moving forward, I have the Idealscope and sarin report. Can someone help me evaluate the Sarin? Thank you!

SARIN_GIA15750676[1].jpg
 
Also here is the Idealscope

IS_GIA15750676[1].jpg
 
If Bob rates this diamond and says there is not an issue, then if you like what you see, then it is worth considering. The Sarin looks fine, do you have the actual diamond image?
 
Yup, here is the actual picture. Bob did have rave reviews on this stone. He told me not to put much weight on the picture since it dificult to take a perfect photo of a diamond. Keep in mind this was a virtual stone they brought in and at no point did WF ever try to "upsell" me to any of their in house stones which was very reassuring. I even asked Bob if he thought any of their in-house stones would be a better buy and he was very quick to respond that this stone was definitly stunning and he would not bother switching to anything else (even though I assume they''d make more if I had bought in house).

Actual Photo.JPG
 
Date: 7/17/2008 3:52:28 PM
Author: first123
Ok so I just got off the phone with Bob at WF (the gemoligist) who used to work at GIA. He said it was just one of those things that GIA rejects but has little/no affect on the stone''s performance. Moving forward, I have the Idealscope and sarin report. Can someone help me evaluate the Sarin? Thank you!
Click to expand...
just one of those things = technical term

Is anyone else in love with the IS?

Am I having a bad hair day?
 
Date: 7/17/2008 4:07:51 PM
Author: first123
I even asked Bob if he thought any of their in-house stones would be a better buy and he was very quick to respond that this stone was definitly stunning and he would not bother switching to anything else
Click to expand...
I even asked Bob if he thought any of their in-house stones would be a better buy and he was very quick to respond that this stone was definitly stunning and he would not bother switching to anything else

=

good homework.
 
Well by "one of those things" I believe he was referring to the symetry being only VG paired with the fact that a couple angles were a hair off. But had the symetry been excellent and the angles the same as they are it would most likely be rated excellent. That being said I would say 99% of people can''t tell the differance between VG and EX symetry with the naked eye.
 
Thank you Regular Guy! I tried to ask all the right questions. I even asked a few just to see what they would say (being a salesperson myself) and I was very happy with the WF staff.
 
Date: 7/17/2008 4:12:39 PM
Author: Regular Guy

Date: 7/17/2008 4:07:51 PM
Author: first123
I even asked Bob if he thought any of their in-house stones would be a better buy and he was very quick to respond that this stone was definitly stunning and he would not bother switching to anything else
Click to expand...
I even asked Bob if he thought any of their in-house stones would be a better buy and he was very quick to respond that this stone was definitly stunning and he would not bother switching to anything else

=

good homework.
Click to expand...
Ditto Ira, you have done well at this first!
36.gif
36.gif
 
Thank you Lorelei. I have come a very long way from when I first started looking a couple months ago at a B&M. Let''s just say I almost spent $16,000 for a 1.5ct J SI1. Not only did I save $1000s but I got a much much better (and bigger) stone from one of the PS vendors. Thank you all again.

Now I need to find a setting.
 
I shopped around and looked at many stones, focusing on Excellent cut grades from GIA. I actually wound up purchasing a stone that was a VG cut grade- it blew away all of the Ex cut stones I looked at, at least to me!
 
Date: 7/17/2008 4:10:07 PM
Author: Regular Guy

Date: 7/17/2008 3:52:28 PM
Author: first123
Ok so I just got off the phone with Bob at WF (the gemoligist) who used to work at GIA. He said it was just one of those things that GIA rejects but has little/no affect on the stone''s performance. Moving forward, I have the Idealscope and sarin report. Can someone help me evaluate the Sarin? Thank you!
Click to expand...
just one of those things = technical term

Is anyone else in love with the IS?

Am I having a bad hair day?
Click to expand...
RG
you not alone
2.gif
 
Thank you Dancing Fire! I know that white areas in the IS show where light leaks through but what else do you guys look for in an IS?
 
Oh thank you Lorelei. While I have the attention of some PSers, does anyone have a WF pave setting (any kind)? My question is whether their settings REALLY sparkle. Since I know they tend to use AKAs in their setting, has anyone compared their paves to others and seen a positive comparison?

Thanks a million!
 
Date: 7/18/2008 4:36:20 PM
Author: first123
Oh thank you Lorelei. While I have the attention of some PSers, does anyone have a WF pave setting (any kind)? My question is whether their settings REALLY sparkle. Since I know they tend to use AKAs in their setting, has anyone compared their paves to others and seen a positive comparison?

Thanks a million!
Click to expand...
Me again! I have a ring with WF ACA melee, and it sparkles like the dickens, and to my eyes, the fire display is gorgeous also, very lovely diamonds and such a beautiful look.
 
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