Tubal ligation for a cat?

[iheartscience]

Date: 2/15/2010 6:05:10 PM
Author: RockHugger

Date: 2/15/2010 5:51:58 PM

Author: thing2of2

Date: 2/15/2010 2:04:10 PM

Author: RockHugger

Date: 2/15/2010 12:58:22 PM

Author: thing2of2

Date: 2/15/2010 7:54:20 AM

Author: RockHugger

Just because someone doesnt agree with you doesnt make it ignorance, or make it wrong. The world would be a much better place if more people realized that.

And back on topic away from those trying to stir the pot. In the OPs main post, she was not saying she wasnt going to spay her kitty, or asking if she should spay her kitty or not, she was posting about 1 way to do it. Its obvious she wants to do spay her.

But see that''s the thing-it IS ignorant and wrong to delay spaying and neutering, and according to FACTS, spaying before a female cat goes into heat is healthier for the cat. Same goes for vaccinating your kid. Not vaccinating your kid does harm to your kid and to other people. It''s not just a difference of opinion-it''s ignorant and wrong. You obviously don''t seem to realize that facts are just that-FACTS. You can''t just disregard them or make your own facts up, sadly!

So no-the world WOULD NOT be a better place if more people thought there was no right or wrong way to do anything.

OMG seriously? You are still ruffled over the vaccine thread? Do you really think you are going to make me or anyone think ''wow, shes right!'' by attacks, and bringing up dead subects in unrelated threads? I dont agree with alot of things people do or believe, but I accept our differences and keep on movin'' on in life because my I know my ideas and beliefs are no more important or ''right'' then theirs! So, Pah-leeease let it go!

And yes the world would be at least slightly better if people accepted each others personal beliefs for what they are, because there wouldnt be an attack about vaccinating on a thread about neutering a cat. That alone would make this little tiny piece of the world (even if it is just the internet) a slightly better place.

I''m not ruffled-just pointing out a parallel. You seem to be of the school of thought that personal beliefs, even ignorant and wrong ones, should trump the well being of a helpless animal or child. I disagree-I believe that decisions should be made based on facts and logic, not ignorant and wrong personal beliefs.

I think the world would be a MUCH better place if people relied on logic and facts instead of paranoia, conspiracy theories and/or covering their ears and humming when they hear something that contradicts their baseless personal beliefs.

All I gotta say to you is

. Sorry to be so short, thats all I got!!

Yes, that''s right-hum louder!

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Date: 2/15/2010 6:05:10 PM
Author: RockHugger

Date: 2/15/2010 5:51:58 PM

Author: thing2of2

Date: 2/15/2010 2:04:10 PM

Author: RockHugger

Date: 2/15/2010 12:58:22 PM


Author: thing2of2

Date: 2/15/2010 7:54:20 AM


Author: RockHugger


Just because someone doesnt agree with you doesnt make it ignorance, or make it wrong. The world would be a much better place if more people realized that.


And back on topic away from those trying to stir the pot. In the OPs main post, she was not saying she wasnt going to spay her kitty, or asking if she should spay her kitty or not, she was posting about 1 way to do it. Its obvious she wants to do spay her.

But see that''s the thing-it IS ignorant and wrong to delay spaying and neutering, and according to FACTS, spaying before a female cat goes into heat is healthier for the cat. Same goes for vaccinating your kid. Not vaccinating your kid does harm to your kid and to other people. It''s not just a difference of opinion-it''s ignorant and wrong. You obviously don''t seem to realize that facts are just that-FACTS. You can''t just disregard them or make your own facts up, sadly!


So no-the world WOULD NOT be a better place if more people thought there was no right or wrong way to do anything.

OMG seriously? You are still ruffled over the vaccine thread? Do you really think you are going to make me or anyone think ''wow, shes right!'' by attacks, and bringing up dead subects in unrelated threads? I dont agree with alot of things people do or believe, but I accept our differences and keep on movin'' on in life because my I know my ideas and beliefs are no more important or ''right'' then theirs! So, Pah-leeease let it go!


And yes the world would be at least slightly better if people accepted each others personal beliefs for what they are, because there wouldnt be an attack about vaccinating on a thread about neutering a cat. That alone would make this little tiny piece of the world (even if it is just the internet) a slightly better place.

I''m not ruffled-just pointing out a parallel. You seem to be of the school of thought that personal beliefs, even ignorant and wrong ones, should trump the well being of a helpless animal or child. I disagree-I believe that decisions should be made based on facts and logic, not ignorant and wrong personal beliefs.


I think the world would be a MUCH better place if people relied on logic and facts instead of paranoia, conspiracy theories and/or covering their ears and humming when they hear something that contradicts their baseless personal beliefs.

All I gotta say to you is

. Sorry to be so short, thats all I got!!

Lalalalalaa .... oh yes, things will go away if you ignore them long enough. You know, because that''s how the REAL world works.

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Date: 2/15/2010 7:47:37 PM
Author: Upgradable
A cat is not a Human.


Humans are the only ''animal'' that have non-reproductive sexual drives.


Animals don''t have SEX for pleasure or fulfillment.


They ONLY mate to reproduce.


Tying tubes, whether fallopian or vas deferens, will not change the animal''s urge to MATE.


Said animal will still go into heat (if female) with all the associated wailing, bleeding, and other unpleasant behaviors. Males will still mark, be aggressive, and ''tom'' around.

+1

 

[purrfectpear]

Date: 2/15/2010 7:32:28 PM
Author: crasru


Here is another option, however: you get a female kitten and tie up her fallopian tubes (so she can have sex and not get pregnant) and a male cat - and do vasectomy on him (I hope people know what vasectomy means). And then you have a pair of UNCASTRATED animals (because SPAYING and NEUTERING is called CASTRATION in humans) who can have normal sexual life but do not procreate. They have a higher risk of certain types of cancer (like people who have not been castrated do) but their risk of obesity, high blood pressure, cardiac events, strokes or diabetes is lower. What would people think?

So - taking another male cat and performing vasectomy? British blues are very ''home-oriented''. They will mate when she is in heat - and no kittens. Is this an option? Or is there something wrong with it as well?

I can honestly say that I have never heard of anyone who was as single-mindedly obsessed with the sex life of their cat.

It has to be asked, what exactly is it that you think will occur if your female cat does not have "normal sex"

 

[IloveAsschers13]

Date: 2/15/2010 11:17:30 PM
Author: Brown.Eyed.Girl

Date: 2/15/2010 7:47:37 PM

Author: Upgradable

A cat is not a Human.



Humans are the only ''animal'' that have non-reproductive sexual drives.



Animals don''t have SEX for pleasure or fulfillment.



They ONLY mate to reproduce.



Tying tubes, whether fallopian or vas deferens, will not change the animal''s urge to MATE.



Said animal will still go into heat (if female) with all the associated wailing, bleeding, and other unpleasant behaviors. Males will still mark, be aggressive, and ''tom'' around.

+1

just to play devil''s advocate.. what about bonobos? They have sex for fun

 

[Arkteia]

Date: 2/15/2010 8:24:13 PM
Author: elrohwen
Crasru, we''ve really tried to answer your questions and I think the majority of us are getting extremely frustrated. No matter how many times we address your actual intended question, you ignore us.


Yes, we know what the medical terms mean. Yes, we understand what you are saying. No, we don''t think it''s a good idea. And yes, I think you''re being selfish by allowing your cat to have frustrating urges she can''t control, all because you, personally, would not want a hysterectomy. She''s a cat, not a human. Her needs and feelings are different. Pretending she''s another person won''t get you very far. We all love our pets, yet we choose to spay and neuter because it is the best thing for them.


No one on this thread has agreed with you - explaining yourself better won''t change that. We still disagree.


Ditto Upgradeable.

OK, I did not want to make you agree with me - my initial question was whether anyone had considered it as an option. And then I got accused of a) likely, sending my animals to a shelter. So I had to explain that I did not.
b) Not checking if their owners sent them to a shelter (I explained that they did not).
c) Selling my kittens (I had to explain that I did not).

So I understood how people feel about it. People feel strongly about stray animals (I understand) and there are no other choices available to reduce the population. To a degree, I like that I started this thread because it shed some more light on people''s feelings about their animals. I see, though, that it is not a topic for this forum but I am interested in getting to know more about prevailing trends in different communities.
I had no time to get back to the topic of declawing animals and see if anyone thought it was good - too often I meet people who said their animals are declawed.

One thing I disagree with, though is when we make assumptions about animal''s feelings or potential - just because we do not really know.

Do not get frustrated with me because I did not immediately get "converted". I may - but before I make a decision for the animal who is my responsibility I am going to google animal forums and animal rights forums, too.

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 2/15/2010 11:24:42 PM
Author: IloveAsschers13

Date: 2/15/2010 11:17:30 PM
Author: Brown.Eyed.Girl

Date: 2/15/2010 7:47:37 PM
Author: Upgradable
A cat is not a Human.
Humans are the only ''animal'' that have non-reproductive sexual drives.

Animals don''t have SEX for pleasure or fulfillment.

They ONLY mate to reproduce.

Tying tubes, whether fallopian or vas deferens, will not change the animal''s urge to MATE.

Said animal will still go into heat (if female) with all the associated wailing, bleeding, and other unpleasant behaviors. Males will still mark, be aggressive, and ''tom'' around.

+1

just to play devil''s advocate.. what about bonobos? They have sex for fun

They also engage in same sex relations, and what can really only be described as orgies...but that really doesn''t have anything to do with the original question at hand...

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Date: 2/15/2010 11:24:42 PM
Author: IloveAsschers13

Date: 2/15/2010 11:17:30 PM

Author: Brown.Eyed.Girl

Date: 2/15/2010 7:47:37 PM


Author: Upgradable


A cat is not a Human.




Humans are the only ''animal'' that have non-reproductive sexual drives.




Animals don''t have SEX for pleasure or fulfillment.




They ONLY mate to reproduce.




Tying tubes, whether fallopian or vas deferens, will not change the animal''s urge to MATE.




Said animal will still go into heat (if female) with all the associated wailing, bleeding, and other unpleasant behaviors. Males will still mark, be aggressive, and ''tom'' around.

+1

just to play devil''s advocate.. what about bonobos? They have sex for fun

I stand corrected

We all, however, accept the FACT that bonobos =/= cat right?

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Date: 2/15/2010 11:28:26 PM
Author: crasru

Date: 2/15/2010 8:24:13 PM

Author: elrohwen

Crasru, we''ve really tried to answer your questions and I think the majority of us are getting extremely frustrated. No matter how many times we address your actual intended question, you ignore us.



Yes, we know what the medical terms mean. Yes, we understand what you are saying. No, we don''t think it''s a good idea. And yes, I think you''re being selfish by allowing your cat to have frustrating urges she can''t control, all because you, personally, would not want a hysterectomy. She''s a cat, not a human. Her needs and feelings are different. Pretending she''s another person won''t get you very far. We all love our pets, yet we choose to spay and neuter because it is the best thing for them.



No one on this thread has agreed with you - explaining yourself better won''t change that. We still disagree.



Ditto Upgradeable.

OK, I did not want to make you agree with me - my initial question was whether anyone had considered it as an option. And then I got accused of a) likely, sending my animals to a shelter. So I had to explain that I did not.

b) Not checking if their owners sent them to a shelter (I explained that they did not).

c) Selling my kittens (I had to explain that I did not).


So I understood how people feel about it. People feel strongly about stray animals (I understand) and there are no other choices available to reduce the population. To a degree, I like that I started this thread because it shed some more light on people''s feelings about their animals. I see, though, that it is not a topic for this forum but I am interested in getting to know more about prevailing trends in different communities.

I had no time to get back to the topic of declawing animals and see if anyone thought it was good - too often I meet people who said their animals are declawed.


One thing I disagree with, though is when we make assumptions about animal''s feelings or potential - just because we do not really know.


Do not get frustrated with me because I did not immediately get ''converted''. I may - but before I make a decision for the animal who is my responsibility I am going to google animal forums and animal rights forums, too.

I hate relying on anecdotal evidence but here''s one anyway. My two 7 month old kittens (both boys and brothers) got neutered a week ago. Let me just say, both seem much happier now. Why do I say this? Well, I guess it''s not very pleasant being ambushed in the bathtub by your brother who wants to hump you. Now they can just go back to trying to rip each others'' ears off and no sexual intentions involved!

/ threadjack

 

[IloveAsschers13]

I have two cats that are spayed and neutered. I just feel like you are taking it into a different element by mentioning their "feelings." Cats are cats. Humans are humans. We have feelings that we can express and share and we have a MUCH bigger brain and intelligence. Certain animals just haven''t evolved into that. Ex- CATS. I KNOW my cats are happy when they purr and rub up against me and when they love eating the treats. That''s the way the express their feelings. They won''t ever be able to tell me why they are mad or happy or sad. They just CAN''T. EVOLUTION.

I also read that there isn''t exactly any pros to tubal ligation- why put your animal through the stress of the surgery only for it to go through heat and be chased around by a male cat? I read a few pros to the actual spaying- there are diseases that can be transmitted through sexual intercourse, going through heat is stressful, and sex is somewhat aggressive in cats.

I love my cats to death. I would do just about anything for them. They are like my BABIES. So that''s just my opinion from a person who LOVES my cats and cares for them immensely. And Freke, I do not think that cats=monkeys, just pointing it out...

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 2/15/2010 11:38:31 PM
Author: IloveAsschers13
I have two cats that are spayed and neutered. I just feel like you are taking it into a different element by mentioning their ''feelings.'' Cats are cats. Humans are humans. We have feelings that we can express and share and we have a MUCH bigger brain and intelligence. Certain animals just haven''t evolved into that. Ex- CATS. I KNOW my cats are happy when they purr and rub up against me and when they love eating the treats. That''s the way the express their feelings. They won''t ever be able to tell me why they are mad or happy or sad. They just CAN''T. EVOLUTION.

I also read that there isn''t exactly any pros to tubal ligation- why put your animal through the stress of the surgery only for it to go through heat and be chased around by a male cat? I read a few pros to the actual spaying- there are diseases that can be transmitted through sexual intercourse, going through heat is stressful, and sex is somewhat aggressive in cats.

I love my cats to death. I would do just about anything for them. They are like my BABIES. So that''s just my opinion from a person who LOVES my cats and cares for them immensely. And Freke, I do not think that cats=monkeys, just pointing it out...

That was BEG! Not me!

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Date: 2/15/2010 11:40:54 PM
Author: FrekeChild

Date: 2/15/2010 11:38:31 PM

Author: IloveAsschers13

I have two cats that are spayed and neutered. I just feel like you are taking it into a different element by mentioning their ''feelings.'' Cats are cats. Humans are humans. We have feelings that we can express and share and we have a MUCH bigger brain and intelligence. Certain animals just haven''t evolved into that. Ex- CATS. I KNOW my cats are happy when they purr and rub up against me and when they love eating the treats. That''s the way the express their feelings. They won''t ever be able to tell me why they are mad or happy or sad. They just CAN''T. EVOLUTION.


I also read that there isn''t exactly any pros to tubal ligation- why put your animal through the stress of the surgery only for it to go through heat and be chased around by a male cat? I read a few pros to the actual spaying- there are diseases that can be transmitted through sexual intercourse, going through heat is stressful, and sex is somewhat aggressive in cats.


I love my cats to death. I would do just about anything for them. They are like my BABIES. So that''s just my opinion from a person who LOVES my cats and cares for them immensely. And Freke, I do not think that cats=monkeys, just pointing it out...

That was BEG! Not me!

It was me! And oops, definitely weren''t implying that you thought bonobos = cats. I knew you didn''t

Just wanted to clarify - people will believe crazy, unsubstantiated stuff at times....

 

[IloveAsschers13]

whoops, haha. no hard feelings..

I'm just a tired college senior who SHOULD be studying for my sociolinguistics test tomorrow.. not going to happen! Tubal ligation debates are much more interesting.

ETA: I was just trying to prove my point that cats probably don't want sex or have as complex feelings as us... I am not trying to attack you crasru

 

[FrekeChild]

human = primate
bonobo = primate
cat =/= primate

WOOT! One thing has been established in this thread!

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Date: 2/15/2010 11:44:34 PM
Author: FrekeChild
human = primate

bonobo = primate

cat =/= primate


WOOT! One thing has been established in this thread!

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Date: 2/15/2010 11:43:55 PM
Author: IloveAsschers13
whoops, haha. no hard feelings..

I''m just a tired college senior who SHOULD be studying for my sociolinguistics test tomorrow.. not going to happen! Tubal ligation debates are much more interesting.


ETA: I was just trying to prove my point that cats probably don''t want sex or have as complex feelings as us... I am not trying to attack you crasru

Sociolinguistics?? Eek, good luck! Go get studying!

 

[Arkteia]

Googled animal forums...apparently some people are considering it as a viable option. But I found a great thread that I think all of you like, irregardless of different opinions:

"The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated."
- Mahatma Gandhi

 

[elrohwen]

Date: 2/16/2010 12:44:16 AM
Author: crasru
Googled animal forums...apparently some people are considering it as a viable option. But I found a great thread that I think all of you like, irregardless of different opinions:

''The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.''
- Mahatma Gandhi

I''m pretty sure you won''t find a greater group of animal lovers anywhere. Have you read the spoiled pets thread? I keep a tiny 4lb rabbit in a 4''x8'' "cage" which he''s allowed to leave at any time. He''s ridiculously spoiled.

And guess what? He''s also neutered. Because I don''t want him to have frustrating sexual urges that he can''t control or understand! I also don''t want to contribute to the over population of the 3rd most euthanized animal in the US.

If you look hard enough, you will find people to agree with you. That does not, however, make it right. This is not an issue of fuzzy feelings, this is an issue of facts. Talk to your vet - I think you''ll get your answer. But I don''t think you will trust your vet, because you''re more interested in your feelings over the whelfare of your cat.

 

[Arkteia]

Date: 2/16/2010 10:03:19 AM
Author: elrohwen

Date: 2/16/2010 12:44:16 AM

Author: crasru

Googled animal forums...apparently some people are considering it as a viable option. But I found a great thread that I think all of you like, irregardless of different opinions:


'The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.'

- Mahatma Gandhi

I'm pretty sure you won't find a greater group of animal lovers anywhere. Have you read the spoiled pets thread? I keep a tiny 4lb rabbit in a 4'x8' 'cage' which he's allowed to leave at any time. He's ridiculously spoiled.


And guess what? He's also neutered. Because I don't want him to have frustrating sexual urges that he can't control or understand! I also don't want to contribute to the over population of the 3rd most euthanized animal in the US.


If you look hard enough, you will find people to agree with you. That does not, however, make it right. This is not an issue of fuzzy feelings, this is an issue of facts. Talk to your vet - I think you'll get your answer. But I don't think you will trust your vet, because you're more interested in your feelings over the whelfare of your cat.

One question: you don't know me at all - have never met me, never spoke to me. Why do you immediately conclude that I am egotistic, or put my feelings over the feelings of my cat? Or that I won't listen to a vet? Egotistic is a strong word - I have noticed that there is tendency among certain people to use strong words sparingly. You have accused them me of it several times in this conversation - should I conclude that you are "egotistically putting your feelings" over mine? I'd prefer to think that you feel strongly about your animals.

Now you are not a vet. Neither am I. And since I am going to see a vet I shall discuss it with him and discuss options. And I do not expect that a professional would talk to me in a heated way. But you are not a professional - I asked people's opinion, that is all.

There are people who are waiting for advances in stem cell therapy because they know that it may mean salvation for them. There are people who say that they will never use it because of their religious beliefs. Am I to pass judgment on them? Or label them as "uneducated"? I have seen Jehowa's witnesses who as we know hold strong beliefs about blood transfusions. Am I going to call them "ignorant" or something worse? No, my goal would be to spread the knowledge and explain existing options.

I do not deal with stem cell therapy or surgery directly, But I treat addicts and know what a horrible problem it is. When people make negative comments about addicts or alcoholics do I jump to call them "cruel" or tell them that there are treatments and hope these days?

As I have said, some people have been very courteous in giving me advices (I am thankful to Cara - she obviously had strong opinion but the way she expressed it made me respect her - and pay attention to what she was saying).

Accusing me without even knowing me puts me on the defensive and doesn't promote constructive dialogue.

 

[elrohwen]

Date: 2/16/2010 4:15:47 PM
Author: crasru
One question: you don't know me at all - have never met me, never spoke to me. Why do you immediately conclude that I am egotistic, or put my feelings over the feelings of my cat? Or that I won't listen to a vet? Egotistic is a strong word - I have noticed that there is tendency among certain people to use strong words sparingly. You have accused them me of it several times in this conversation - should I conclude that you are 'egotistically putting your feelings' over mine? I'd prefer to think that you feel strongly about your animals.

Now you are not a vet. Neither am I. And since I am going to see a vet I shall discuss it with him and discuss options. And I do not expect that a professional would talk to me in a heated way. But you are not a professional - I asked people's opinion, that is all.

There are people who are waiting for advances in stem cell therapy because they know that it may mean salvation for them. There are people who say that they will never use it because of their religious beliefs. Am I to pass judgment on them? Or label them as 'uneducated'? I have seen Jehowa's witnesses who as we know hold strong beliefs about blood transfusions. Am I going to call them 'ignorant' or something worse? No, my goal would be to spread the knowledge and explain existing options.

I do not deal with stem cell therapy or surgery directly, But I treat addicts and know what a horrible problem it is. When people make negative comments about addicts or alcoholics do I jump to call them 'cruel' or tell them that there are treatments and hope these days?

As I have said, some people have been very courteous in giving me advices (I am thankful to Cara - she obviously had strong opinion but the way she expressed it made me respect her - and pay attention to what she is saying).

Accusing me without even knowing me puts me on the defensive and doesn't promote constructive dialogue.

I just don't understand why you ask a simple question, but continue to not listen to the answer that everyone has provided. This is what frustrates me. From your responses, it is fairly easy to infer that you are not interested in which may be better but that you are interested in hearing that your preferred surgery (tubal ligation) is the better method. Maybe I'm wrong, and this isn't your intent, but your posts have continued to defend tubal ligation. That's fine, but don't ask which is better if you've already decided for yourself. So far, no one else has agreed with you.

I never called you uneducated or ignorant - I merely said that you seem to be considering your own feelings more so than what your cat might be feeling when she goes through heat every month. I also said that you clearly love your pet, I just think, in this case, your love for her is preventing you from making the best decision for her. You love her to the point where you are considering her feelings as another person, when she is, in fact, a cat and has different feelings and needs than a person. I am glad you will discuss this with your vet.

 

[MonkeyPie]

Date: 2/16/2010 4:32:25 PM
Author: elrohwen

I just don''t understand why you ask a simple question, but continue to not listen to the answer that everyone has provided. This is what frustrates me. From your responses, it is fairly easy to infer that you are not interested in which may be better but that you are interested in hearing that your preferred surgery (tubal ligation) is the better method. Maybe I''m wrong, and this isn''t your intent, but your posts have continued to defend tubal ligation. That''s fine, but don''t ask which is better if you''ve already decided for yourself. So far, no one else has agreed with you.

This, crasu.

And the longer you wait, the harder the surgery will be on your cat - whether it''s tubal or spaying.

 

[sunnyd]

Date: 2/16/2010 4:44:27 PM
Author: MonkeyPie

Date: 2/16/2010 4:32:25 PM
Author: elrohwen

I just don''t understand why you ask a simple question, but continue to not listen to the answer that everyone has provided. This is what frustrates me. From your responses, it is fairly easy to infer that you are not interested in which may be better but that you are interested in hearing that your preferred surgery (tubal ligation) is the better method. Maybe I''m wrong, and this isn''t your intent, but your posts have continued to defend tubal ligation. That''s fine, but don''t ask which is better if you''ve already decided for yourself. So far, no one else has agreed with you.

This, crasu.

And the longer you wait, the harder the surgery will be on your cat - whether it''s tubal or spaying.

Ditto. And Bee is a vet (or she will be) and gave her opinion that spaying is better. Did you not see that?

 

[Arkteia]

I counted my postings (10 or 11) per total of 110. Most of times I had to "account" for something. I was accused of leaving my kittens in shelters - I had to prove I did not; then of not tracking if their owners left them in shelters - I had to "account" for my kittens; then taking money for my kittens (I had to explain that I did not); then letting my cat go through heat - we did not. All that I said was that we found nice homes for 12 kittens - and this was viewed as irresponsible. I felt we got sidetracked. Leaving animals behind is irresponsible; bringing them to shelters is irresponsible. Do you doubt that I would have left the kittens at my house if I did not find homes for them? Of course I would!

And many people simply vented their feelings - which is totally understandable since they volunteered in shelters and have firsthand experience of what is going on there.

Even this new cat is a "random" gift of fate - I did not plan on buying a purebred or getting any cat. I still missed my first cat. But a woman I knew had a British Blue; she mated the cat and had three kittens. She asked me if I wanted one. Since I saw the mother and liked her I said, yes. People may have no intention of getting animals and yet decide to get them if the opportunity is there and love them and care for them.

Very little time was really dedicated to my question but somehow I was equated to those who leave cats in shelters. Understandably, people feel angry and bitter with them but since they do not have a chance to express it to these people they chose me as a target.

Chances are that I shall spay her - if only because owners of male cats prefer to neuter their animals and I do not want my cat to go through estrus. Then of course I shall deal with issues of preventing osteoporosis, weight gain and diabetes but I hope there are ways to cope.

 

[Cind11]

I am very glad to hear that you will probably spay your cat for all the reasons previously stated in this thread. I''m not trying to attack you but your 12 kittens most likely prevented other kittens from getting homes.

Osteoporosis, weight gain and diabetes are not a given for spayed/neutered animals. I have had 8 cats during my married life. (I have four of those eight right now) I have had two cats out of the eight that gained some weight as they got older. To say that it was definitely from the surgery would be anecdotal.

 

[movie zombie]

Date: 2/16/2010 6:40:43 PM
Author: crasru
........Then of course I shall deal with issues of preventing osteoporosis, weight gain and diabetes but I hope there are ways to cope.

these are issues that diet can prevent: feeding a high quality, non-grain canned food will greatly reduce these. better yet is to make your own but while i have done the research, i haven't done it yet...sigh.

my female lahonda was spayed early on and never was overweight. she is now 17 years old and has diabetes now according to our vet only because it was prescription drug induced by the use of prednisone [and the dosage of insulin she receives borders on nonexistent] for another manx related condition. her artheristis is due to age and being a manx cat. she has no signs of osteo.

i will add that my neutered male cats were never overweight either....and i've never had a cat that had osteo problems. me thinks you worry to much in that regard.

personally, i'd worry more about a cat that is allowed to go outside and deal with poison, racoons, coyotes, cars, cat fights, kids with airguns, etc.

mz

 

[Arkteia]

Date: 2/16/2010 6:53:17 PM
Author: Cind11
I am very glad to hear that you will probably spay your cat for all the reasons previously stated in this thread. I''m not trying to attack you but your 12 kittens most likely prevented other kittens from getting homes.


Osteoporosis, weight gain and diabetes are not a given for spayed/neutered animals. I have had 8 cats during my married life. (I have four of those eight right now) I have had two cats out of the eight that gained some weight as they got older. To say that it was definitely from the surgery would be anecdotal.

I do not know if my kittens prevented other kittens from getting homes. I think we were able to find homes for all our kittens so easily was because of the vast network of professional contacts. It was a HUGE teaching hospital with many residency programs and many doctors. Plus, we rotated through different hospitals. So if you walk into a room and bring in photographs of your kitties and say that we are looking for good homes, someone might think, why not? Same happened with my hamster - I had to remove him from the house because our cat was terrifying him. My friend had a son; I offered the hamster to her. Would she have bought her son a hamster otherwise? Probably, not. He never asked for one. But since it was there...They took the hamster in, changed his name (not that he had noticed) and made a nice house for him.

Same with my first cat - I never thought of a kitten, but since it was there (it was the last one of the litter that my son friend''s cat had), I took him. My husband did not like the idea, but we still took the kitten in. Later my husband was the one who she considered his "master".

I would love to have a dog but I work late so my husbands says he knows too well who will end up taking care of the dog and he is not ready for it. But if someone we know has a puppy and we like it, I would not be surprised if we take the puppy.

I do not think offering a kitten or a puppy or any other animal necessarily prevents the people from adopting animals from the shelter. Taking an animal in may be a spontaneous decision, and there is nothing wrong with it. I have seen it happening with human adoptions, too. A woman was adopting one child, a girl, and suddenly the people handling the adoption said, "oh, we have this boy. Do you want to take him, too?" She was not prepared but could not say no. Now two kids have a very loving home and they are very much attached to each other.

 

[elrohwen]

Weight gain can be controlled by diet - as you are the owner and control what she gets to eat, I don''t see this being a problem. Lots of dogs are prone to weight gain (you can find lots of chunky beagles and labs) but if the owners feed proper foods and the proper amount, this shouldn''t really be an issue. I think you''re worrying about this far too much. And as diebetes is often related to weight gain, that''s also pretty controllable with a good diet.

I''m sorry you felt attacked in this thread, but reading through it, I feel that people wanted to make a point about the sheer number of cats in shelters and that they believed it was irresponsible for you to breed your cat. I don''t remember anyone accusing you of dumping your kittens, or selling them to make money. People did wonder if they found good homes and you satisfied us on that. I think the point was that having kittens at all, unless you are a dedicated breeder who is trying to improve the breed, is irresponsible. It doesn''t really matter if you found them good homes or even if you kept all of them - many of us still feel that it is irresponsible. We''re not saying you''re a bad person, just expressing our opinions and giving you the facts behind the number of cats in shelters so you''ll consider that in the future. I''m not a cat person, but I''ve worked with dogs and rabbits in shelters and I understand where everyone is coming from on this issue.

We''re also not saying that you don''t love your cat and want what''s best for her. We''re just trying to help you make that decision. I''ve said about five times now that I think you love your cat very much and you wouldn''t have asked this question if you weren''t trying to consider what was best. I hope you consider our advice and I''m glad to hear that you are thinking of spaying her.

 

[Arkteia]

And honestly, we should start with taking responsibility for own kittens. The woman I bought my new kitten from had three; she found owners for the two of them but not for the third one and left the kitten in her house.

If everyone took care of their own kittens, we would not be facing the problem of shelters. Same, however, applies to people.

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 2/16/2010 7:47:46 PM
Author: elrohwen
Weight gain can be controlled by diet - as you are the owner and control what she gets to eat, I don't see this being a problem. Lots of dogs are prone to weight gain (you can find lots of chunky beagles and labs) but if the owners feed proper foods and the proper amount, this shouldn't really be an issue. I think you're worrying about this far too much. And as diebetes is often related to weight gain, that's also pretty controllable with a good diet.

I'm sorry you felt attacked in this thread, but reading through it, I feel that people wanted to make a point about the sheer number of cats in shelters and that they believed it was irresponsible for you to breed your cat. I don't remember anyone accusing you of dumping your kittens, or selling them to make money. People did wonder if they found good homes and you satisfied us on that. I think the point was that having kittens at all, unless you are a dedicated breeder who is trying to improve the breed, is irresponsible. It doesn't really matter if you found them good homes or even if you kept all of them - many of us still feel that it is irresponsible. We're not saying you're a bad person, just expressing our opinions and giving you the facts behind the number of cats in shelters so you'll consider that in the future. I'm not a cat person, but I've worked with dogs and rabbits in shelters and I understand where everyone is coming from on this issue.

We're also not saying that you don't love your cat and want what's best for her. We're just trying to help you make that decision. I've said about five times now that I think you love your cat very much and you wouldn't have asked this question if you weren't trying to consider what was best. I hope you consider our advice and I'm glad to hear that you are thinking of spaying her.

Ditto this post.

Not to beat a dead horse, but....
You have to realize and take into account that those homes that took in your 12 kittens may not have ended up working out perfectly. Someone divorces, doesn't want a cat anymore. Someone dies, and no one wants the cat. The family has to move and can't take the cat with it when it moves. They spontaneously took the cat, and then found out about their serious cat allergies. Etc. Then they would hopefully give the cat to another good home, but often that is not the case.

I'm really not trying to beat you up over this, but I can't help but think about the worst case scenarios for these animals. I lost my beloved 15.5 year old family dog last February, and had spent a year previous to that wanting my own dog. We didn't get one because of the possibility of having to take in the family dog, who did not get along with other dogs. That's a year that I wanted a dog. When the family dog died, I didn't have to worry about him getting along with a new dog anymore, and I can't tell you how intensely I WANTED A DOG. So we decided to get a dog. And we waited for two weeks. We both needed time to mentally prepare for the lifestyle change it would mean for us to get a dog of our own. Two weeks is not a long time to prepare to make a life change of more than ten years.

So regardless of my incredibly intense desire to take in a dog, I still thought about it, and made that educated decision to take this creature in for the entirety of it's life (~twenty years) and dedicate my life to make this animal's life the best it could be.

Which eventually led to getting our second dog, but that's another story.

My point is, I STILL had reservations about bringing a pet into my house even though I TRULY wanted one. What about those people who regret it or their circumstances change?

Once upon a time I was given a bunny as a gift, and both myself and the gift giver regretted it immensely when we found out I was allergic. I dealt with it for a year before deciding I couldn't handle it anymore. Luckily, I was able to find my bunny a good home with a chef friend of mine that lived on a ranch in the mountains.

I do hope you spay her. We had cats when I was little, and the male wasn't neutered when he should be, and as a result would spray everywhere and took every opportunity to escape our house and chase trucks (of the automobile variety) that he could. That led to a lot of heartbreak for me as a child.

 

[Arkteia]

Date: 2/16/2010 8:26:27 PM
Author: FrekeChild

Date: 2/16/2010 7:47:46 PM

Author: elrohwen

Weight gain can be controlled by diet - as you are the owner and control what she gets to eat, I don''t see this being a problem. Lots of dogs are prone to weight gain (you can find lots of chunky beagles and labs) but if the owners feed proper foods and the proper amount, this shouldn''t really be an issue. I think you''re worrying about this far too much. And as diebetes is often related to weight gain, that''s also pretty controllable with a good diet.


I''m sorry you felt attacked in this thread, but reading through it, I feel that people wanted to make a point about the sheer number of cats in shelters and that they believed it was irresponsible for you to breed your cat. I don''t remember anyone accusing you of dumping your kittens, or selling them to make money. People did wonder if they found good homes and you satisfied us on that. I think the point was that having kittens at all, unless you are a dedicated breeder who is trying to improve the breed, is irresponsible. It doesn''t really matter if you found them good homes or even if you kept all of them - many of us still feel that it is irresponsible. We''re not saying you''re a bad person, just expressing our opinions and giving you the facts behind the number of cats in shelters so you''ll consider that in the future. I''m not a cat person, but I''ve worked with dogs and rabbits in shelters and I understand where everyone is coming from on this issue.



We''re also not saying that you don''t love your cat and want what''s best for her. We''re just trying to help you make that decision. I''ve said about five times now that I think you love your cat very much and you wouldn''t have asked this question if you weren''t trying to consider what was best. I hope you consider our advice and I''m glad to hear that you are thinking of spaying her.

Ditto this post.


Not to beat a dead horse, but....

You have to realize and take into account that those homes that took in your 12 kittens may not have ended up working out perfectly. Someone divorces, doesn''t want a cat anymore. Someone dies, and no one wants the cat. The family has to move and can''t take the cat with it when it moves. They spontaneously took the cat, and then found out about their serious cat allergies. Etc. Then they would hopefully give the cat to another good home, but often that is not the case.


I''m really not trying to beat you up over this, but I can''t help but think about the worst case scenarios for these animals. I lost my beloved 15.5 year old family dog last February, and had spent a year previous to that wanting my own dog. We didn''t get one because of the possibility of having to take in the family dog, who did not get along with other dogs. That''s a year that I wanted a dog. When the family dog died, I didn''t have to worry about him getting along with a new dog anymore, and I can''t tell you how intensely I WANTED A DOG. So we decided to get a dog. And we waited for two weeks. We both needed time to mentally prepare for the lifestyle change it would mean for us to get a dog of our own. Two weeks is not a long time to prepare to make a life change of more than ten years.


So regardless of my incredibly intense desire to take in a dog, I still thought about it, and made that educated decision to take this creature in for the entirety of it''s life (~twenty years) and dedicate my life to make this animal''s life the best it could be.


Which eventually led to getting our second dog, but that''s another story.


My point is, I STILL had reservations about bringing a pet into my house even though I TRULY wanted one. What about those people who regret it or their circumstances change?


Once upon a time I was given a bunny as a gift, and both myself and the gift giver regretted it immensely when we found out I was allergic. I dealt with it for a year before deciding I couldn''t handle it anymore. Luckily, I was able to find my bunny a good home with a chef friend of mine that lived on a ranch in the mountains.


I do hope you spay her. We had cats when I was little, and the male wasn''t neutered when he should be, and as a result would spray everywhere and took every opportunity to escape our house and chase trucks (of the automobile variety) that he could. That led to a lot of heartbreak for me as a child.

You know, Freke, things happen in everyone''s life. Anything can happen. This woman who spontaneously adopted two kids although she planned for one, she made a great mother for both of them. Now both of them are teenagers, they love each other and their parents, and the boy''s IQ is through the roof. Although the decision was totally spontaneous.

You are getting prepared to take in a dog - fine! I took the last animal in the box spontaneously - is it bad? Really, it does not matter! My second kid was totally unplanned - does it mean that we love him less? Or are less responsible? I highly doubt it.

Can someone give a cat away? Absolutely. He may do the same with the cat adopted from a shelter. The chance is the same; I think it is less for my cats because I know these people. Professionals, doctors, nurses, scientists. For a while I had this idea of calling the people who adopted my cats and finding out how the cats were doing. But it would take me a while to get their phone numbers (I moved 8 yeara ago).

Read my previous post - if people take care of all animals, cats, dogs, horses, AND all kids in their houses (I don''t even want to start here) we shall end up with only no-kill shelters.

From my geropsychiatry experience I know of situations when owners died and no one could take in the pets. They had to be given to shelters. These are exceptions. And they should remain exceptions.

Although, why does all it surprise me? I heard of a doctor in old country who euthanised a baby born with Down syndrome. Of course there was absolutely no proof and all the thing was hush-hush but rumors were spreading. If this is true, why are we surprised about cats or dog in shelters? I just don''t want to start the whole topic of euthanasia which is now legal in our state for fear that it might be viewed as "political discussion".