Trying to select my dream 3 carat diamond!

[Stalecupcake]

Hi everyone,

I'm new here (but a loooooong time lurker) and just need some advice. I've narrowed down my search to two diamonds. My priority is size, cut, clarity and then colour. I promised I won't be upgrading in the future as I'm sentimental, so this will be my forever stone so I'm hoping to go as big as our budget will allow ($37k USD).

Please give me advice on these stones! Stone #1 scores well on HCA with a 1.3 but the other two really don't.. Except stone #2 is AGS ideal 0 so shouldn't it score well on the HCA? The angles and table of stone #2 throw me off but for some reason it's rated AGS Ideal 0, can someone chime in?

On top of this, I went to Spence Diamonds today and they made me feel SO BADLY for telling them I was considering a fluorescent diamond (stone #1)!! They were just down right degrading and belittling me, ugh!! But I won't lie.. Her ultimate disdain really did make me second guess myself. If it wasn't for the medium fluorescence, I would buy stone #1 immediately but after my visit there I'm really doubting myself! Please experts give me some advice... Which would be a better stone for our budget? Stone #2 is just under 3 carats so I'm thinking it's good value with no fluorescence...? Not sure, sigh.

Stone #1:
GIA excellent
HCA 1.3
3.1 carats
Table: 56
Depth: 62.2
Crown angle: 35.5
Pavilion angle: 40.6
Medium blue fluorescence
$2000 more expensive than stone #2

Stone #2
2.9 carats
Table: 58.5
Depth: 62.6
Crown angle: 35.9
Pavilion angle: 40.9
No fluorescence

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Okay, first of all, that salesperson is dumb. Fluorescence is beautiful to many of us who appreciate it, and it can have the advantage of making a stone appear a little higher in color in certain lighting. So forget that jeweler!

Before I can give you advice, we need the diameter measurements of both stones and color/clarity. But the second one is deeper than I usually would consider and I would have to see an idealscope image to be sure it didn't have leakage. I don't care if it is AGS 0 or not!

 

[Gypsy]

Sales person was consciously trying to scare you to get you to buy from him. I prefer the numbers of #1. Can you get an idealscope and have you asked the vendor if the stone is overblue?

That's what you need.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Gypsy, I don't think it can be overblue with medium fluorescence can it???

 

[LLJsmom]

Hi!

I have a F 2.59 MRB with medium blue fluor and I just love it more and more all the time.

It's super clear, meaning no haziness or milkiness. I do feel like I'm looking at clear ocean water sometimes in bright sunlight.

I'll post some pics.

I would say look make sure there is a good return policy if you buy and let your own eyes decide if you like it. Don't let someone else tell you what you should like. . Most b&m jewelers that I have talked to dislike fluor but I like it and I'm the one wearing it.

Overcast


Fluorescent lighting

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Problems with fluorescence are rare but usually occur with very strong blue and especially if the clarity is low, such as with clouds, etc. I had a stone with medium blue for 25+ years and didn't even know it had it until I went to reset the diamond and the jeweler looked at it under UV lighting and told me! You just want see much unless you shine a UV light on it. But this is partly why I asked for color and clarity to know if the fluorescence was more likely to be positive or negative.

https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-flourescence

(Your ring is gorgeous, LLJsmom! I think most of the color we can see in the first two pics is environmental reflection and not fluorescence, though!)

 

[LLJsmom]

Problems with fluorescence are rare but usually occur with very strong blue and especially if the clarity is low, such as with clouds, etc. I had a stone with medium blue for 25+ years and didn't even know it had it until I went to reset the diamond and the jeweler looked at it under UV lighting and told me! You just want see much unless you shine a UV light on it. But this is partly why I asked for color and clarity to know if the fluorescence was more likely to be positive or negative.

(Your ring is gorgeous, LLJsmom! I think most of the color we can see in the first two pics is environmental reflection and not fluorescence, though!)

DS, you're probably right. In that first one I see green. Oh great. Now she'll think it turns colors. Should I remove the first 2 pics?

 

[LLJsmom]

Problems with fluorescence are rare but usually occur with very strong blue and especially if the clarity is low, such as with clouds, etc. I had a stone with medium blue for 25+ years and didn't even know it had it until I went to reset the diamond and the jeweler looked at it under UV lighting and told me! You just want see much unless you shine a UV light on it. But this is partly why I asked for color and clarity to know if the fluorescence was more likely to be positive or negative.

https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-flourescence

(Your ring is gorgeous, LLJsmom! I think most of the color we can see in the first two pics is environmental reflection and not fluorescence, though!)

DS, one question, do other stones do that too then? Reflect THIS much color? That first one was really blue-green.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Lol! Sure, all stones can reflect the sky, leaves, our clothing, etc. outdoors. My strong blue fluorescent stone had the very slightest violent tint in sunlight that I might not have noticed had I not known about the fluorescence. Here is a pic:

 

[Dancing Fire]

Gypsy, I don't think it can be overblue with medium fluorescence can it???

People kept talking about over blue stones but I have yet to see one posted on PS. My Octavia is a VSB stone and all I can see is a light blue tint under strong direct sun light.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Gypsy, I don't think it can be overblue with medium fluorescence can it???

People kept talking about over blue stones but I have yet to see one posted on PS. My Octavia is a VSB stone and all I can see is a light blue tint under strong direct sun light.

I think there has been one that I can recall, and I think it is the one pictured in that link on fluorescence I posted above (might belong to David Atlas?). I love fluorescence and that is my only regret about my current stone (doesn't have it). You were very fortunate that they round rough with fluoro for your stone!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Gypsy, I don't think it can be overblue with medium fluorescence can it???

People kept talking about over blue stones but I have yet to see one posted on PS. My Octavia is a VSB stone and all I can see is a light blue tint under strong direct sun light.

I think there has been one that I can recall, and I think it is the one pictured in that link on fluorescence I posted above (might belong to David Atlas?). I love fluorescence and that is my only regret about my current stone (doesn't have it). You were very fortunate that they round rough with fluoro for your stone!

Yes, I 'd see the haziness in Dave's stone but no over blue toned color. Maybe I don't know what to look for...

 

[LLJsmom]

Lol! Sure, all stones can reflect the sky, leaves, our clothing, etc. outdoors. My strong blue fluorescent stone had the very slightest violent tint in sunlight that I might not have noticed had I not known about the fluorescence. Here is a pic:

Well, heck, if people don't want to see color in their stones (all those B&M anti-fluor people) make sure they wear white all the time. LOL! and all this time I thought that it had something to do with the fluor. It was my predominately blue wardrobe!

Sorry OP, did not mean to threadjack...

 

[Stalecupcake]

Okay, first of all, that salesperson is dumb. Fluorescence is beautiful to many of us who appreciate it, and it can have the advantage of making a stone appear a little higher in color in certain lighting. So forget that jeweler!

Before I can give you advice, we need the diameter measurements of both stones and color/clarity. But the second one is deeper than I usually would consider and I would have to see an idealscope image to be sure it didn't have leakage. I don't care if it is AGS 0 or not!

Thanks for everyone's input!

Here's some additional specs

Stone #1
I, VS2, 9.28-9.32 x 5.78mm

Stone #2
I, VS2, 9.07-9.10 x 5.65 mm

I fear that stone #2 may be cut too deep too... I love fluorescence from all the PS photos I've seen but because this is a virtual stone, I'll have to bring the stone in to see if there's a very blue overtone to it. Spence's Diamonds were SO RUDE though; she ushered me into a room where she showed me a fluorescent diamond and scoffed "if you really want a blue diamond, then be my guest", as she nodded to the diamond under the blue lighting. She was just awful. I brought my friend to help decide on a size and my friend (not educated in diamond literature) was absolutely horrified after the experience and didn't want me buying a fluorescent diamond. Why are sales people like this?! I even spoke to a "gemologist" working at the store and he just told me to say away.

I don't plan on ever upgrading my diamond, but these kinds of attitudes do affect the psyche a bit I must admit. What's with the stigma? Shouldn't "gemologist" know that unless there's haziness/oiliness, there's no other detrimental effects?! It just makes me so angry!!

 

[Stalecupcake]

Hi!

I have a F 2.59 MRB with medium blue fluor and I just love it more and more all the time.

It's super clear, meaning no haziness or milkiness. I do feel like I'm looking at clear ocean water sometimes in bright sunlight.

I'll post some pics.

I would say look make sure there is a good return policy if you buy and let your own eyes decide if you like it. Don't let someone else tell you what you should like. . Most b&m jewelers that I have talked to dislike fluor but I like it and I'm the one wearing it.

Overcast


Fluorescent lighting

This is so beautiful! What color is your stone? It is stunning

 

[Stalecupcake]

Hi!

I have a F 2.59 MRB with medium blue fluor and I just love it more and more all the time.

It's super clear, meaning no haziness or milkiness. I do feel like I'm looking at clear ocean water sometimes in bright sunlight.

I'll post some pics.

I would say look make sure there is a good return policy if you buy and let your own eyes decide if you like it. Don't let someone else tell you what you should like. . Most b&m jewelers that I have talked to dislike fluor but I like it and I'm the one wearing it.

Overcast


Fluorescent lighting

This is so beautiful! What color is your stone? It is stunning

PS, you're right.. I should look at the stone with my own eyes to see. A good return policy is needed! What also bothered me was the sales lady said "what will people say when you go clubbing or get your nails done? They'll think it's a CZ". I wanted to punch her, I really did. But I actually don't get my nails done and I don't go to places with UV lifting in dark rooms so I'm hoping that the medium fluorescence will look beautiful like yours in the sun

Does blue fluorescence typically look like your pale periwinkle color? It looks great!

 

[Stalecupcake]

Lol! Sure, all stones can reflect the sky, leaves, our clothing, etc. outdoors. My strong blue fluorescent stone had the very slightest violent tint in sunlight that I might not have noticed had I not known about the fluorescence. Here is a pic:

So pretty! Has anyone like a stranger ever asked or wondered if your diamond has fluorescence? I'm just wondering how well known this issue is and whether its perceptible to the untrained eye..

 

[garybloom]

Fluorescence is a misunderstood stone attribute. It is visible only in direct UV lighting and specific artificial lighting situations.
Additionally as others wrote, it can actually be a beautiful additional factor and not cause price downgrading. Internal visible flaws are one of the main factors for lower grades when taking all the 4Cs into consideration. I advise eye-clean diamond stones with medium to no fluorescence.
Based on the specifics you provided go with the less expensive stone as the difference in carat weight with a good mounting will not be noticeable.

 

[Stalecupcake]

Fluorescence is a misunderstood stone attribute. It is visible only in direct UV lighting and specific artificial lighting situations.
Additionally as others wrote, it can actually be a beautiful additional factor and not cause price downgrading. Internal visible flaws are one of the main factors for lower grades when taking all the 4Cs into consideration. I advise eye-clean diamond stones with medium to no fluorescence.
Based on the specifics you provided go with the less expensive stone as the difference in carat weight with a good mounting will not be noticeable.

I agree with you, but would you still advise me to go with stone #2 if its AHS ideal 0 but scores poorly on the HCA tool compared to stone #1?

 

[Stalecupcake]

I actually found a third stone:

HCA 3.7
3 ct
Table: 57
Depth: 62.3 (is this still considered too deep?)
Crown angle: 36
Pavilion angle: 40.8
I, VS2. 9.16-9.22 x 5.72mm

Attached are some images only available for this stone #3. The ideal scope doesn't look so good, am I right?

Of the three stones, which would you choose? Obviously unfairly since only stone #3 has images but based on specs/angles etc what are your thoughts? Granted I love the 3 ct size and since I'll not be upgrading again, I'm trying to go as big as I can within our budget

Thanks everyone!

 

[thecat]

Numbers of stone 1 is better than 3 which is better than 2. Ask for aset of stone 1.

 

[Stalecupcake]

Numbers of stone 1 is better than 3 which is better than 2. Ask for aset of stone 1.

Thanks so much, will ask for the aset for stone #1 for sure but if stone #2 is AGS ideal 0, doesn't that mean that the HCA tool doesn't apply to it? Assuming that's what you meant by numbers.

I've been reading so much on PS that I don't know how it all comes down to because some day the HCA is only for GIA stones, not AGS ideal 0 since AGS grades for light... Is this true or false?

 

[Circe]

Fluorescence is misunderstood because of an over-correction. In the early part of the century, it was actually highly valued in colorless diamonds - they called them blue-whites. During the 70s, ANY stone with fluor was hyped as a blue-white during the "investment" scam that damaged pricing for 20-some odd years ( think Dutch Tulip Craze .... lots and lots of speculation). Lots of crappy stones were sold at hugely inflated values ... and the market as a whole was left with a lot of bitterness and some very negative feelings towards fluorescent stones, when in reality it's only a tiny fraction of stones that are overblue - I should know, I've been looking for one for the last 7 years! I've bought three or four strong blues HOPING for eye visible fluor, and nada .... it only shows under black light. Odds are good your stone won't show a thing.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Since you said size is your #1 priority, the first diamond is an easy winner. It has the best chance of being well cut as well as being larger than the second. I do not like the images on the third stone...too much leakage. Shows how the HCA can work! I hope Spence is not the one calling in the stones for you! Are you working with a PS vendor, I hope?

Medium fluorescence is a PLUS in I color stones. I'd far rather have an I color with it than without it. It is more likely to have positive than negative effects, but as I said earlier, you generally won't ever notice medium blue unless you are somewhere like a nail salon that has your nails under UV lighting or something like that. I sold that diamond I posted above because I wanted a larger AVR (see my avatar) and it is I VS1 but no fluorescence. I just didn't have an option of fluorescence in the stones in the size range I wanted.

 

[Harst035]

As another "long-time lurker" who just purchased a stone from the cert/web images and much more importantly, information gleaned from these lovely ladies (and some gentlemen) on PriceScope, don't give that salesperson a second thought! Actually... Disregard their advice and if you end up with a fluorescent stone, make sure to bring that beautiful rock in there for them to get a look at Good luck on your search– I had the same "order of importance" as you but a much smaller budget and I found something I will truly love forever and ever and know you will too!

 

[Stalecupcake]

As another "long-time lurker" who just purchased a stone from the cert/web images and much more importantly, information gleaned from these lovely ladies (and some gentlemen) on PriceScope, don't give that salesperson a second thought! Actually... Disregard their advice and if you end up with a fluorescent stone, make sure to bring that beautiful rock in there for them to get a look at Good luck on your search– I had the same "order of importance" as you but a much smaller budget and I found something I will truly love forever and ever and know you will too!

Thanks so much for the advice and encouragement it means a lot to me! I'm so glad you found your stone; I'm really hoping I will soon too

 

[Stalecupcake]

Since you said size is your #1 priority, the first diamond is an easy winner. It has the best chance of being well cut as well as being larger than the second. I do not like the images on the third stone...too much leakage. Shows how the HCA can work! I hope Spence is not the one calling in the stones for you! Are you working with a PS vendor, I hope?

Medium fluorescence is a PLUS in I color stones. I'd far rather have an I color with it than without it. It is more likely to have positive than negative effects, but as I said earlier, you generally won't ever notice medium blue unless you are somewhere like a nail salon that has your nails under UV lighting or something like that. I sold that diamond I posted above because I wanted a larger AVR (see my avatar) and it is I VS1 but no fluorescence. I just didn't have an option of fluorescence in the stones in the size range I wanted.

You're right, stone #1 is a clear winner! I just have this inkling of a thought from the salesperson but honestly I never do my nails at a salon and I don't think I'll ever be under a black light so I should be good there I'm absolutely working with one of the PS vendors - no way would I shop at the mall with their misguided information and bad attitudes, especially not after my bad experience at Spence!

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="Stalecupcake|

I fear that stone #2 may be cut too deep too... I love fluorescence from all the PS photos I've seen but because this is a virtual stone, I'll have to bring the stone in to see if there's a very blue overtone to it. Spence's Diamonds were SO RUDE though; she ushered me into a room where she showed me a fluorescent diamond and scoffed "if you really want a blue diamond, then be my guest", as she nodded to the diamond under the blue lighting. She was just awful. I brought my friend to help decide on a size and my friend (not educated in diamond literature) was absolutely horrified after the experience and didn't want me buying a fluorescent diamond. Why are sales people like this?! I even spoke to a "gemologist" working at the store and he just told me to say away.

I don't plan on ever upgrading my diamond, but these kinds of attitudes do affect the psyche a bit I must admit. What's with the stigma? Shouldn't "gemologist" know that unless there's haziness/oiliness, there's no other detrimental effects?! It just makes me so angry!![/quote]



I better not go into their store with my VSB diamond....

 

[Tekate]

Dancing Fire.. your stone is so so so gorgeous... I wish I could buy it or one like it, fluorescence or not.. it's so gorgeous.



I better not go into their store with my VSB diamond.... [/quote]

 

[lovefordiamonds]

Hi Stalecupcake!
I literally JUST went through the same process for my forever stone. I actually posted here on PS last week!
I too think Stone #1 is the winner! My first 2 priorities were also size and cut. My criteria for size was that the 3ct stone had to hit the 9.3mm mark. If I had the 2-3 choices you have in front of you now, I'd definitely choose stone #1 for this reason + HCA scores a 1.3.

AND I ended up with a stone with Very Strong Blue Fluorescence and i LOVE it!! (photos here: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/id-jewelry-does-it-again-3ct-solitaire-w-double-claws.207478/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/id-jewelry-does-it-again-3ct-solitaire-w-double-claws.207478/[/URL])
I had the PS vendor make sure that it didn't have any milkiness or haziness before purchasing it and I was assured it had NO negative effect. There is a tint of blue in direct sunlight, which I think is really pretty, but other than that, I can't even tell it has it and looks like any other diamond. (Although, the camera picks it up a little more in photos.) Please don't be afraid of fluorescence and sorry about your horrible experience

Good luck with your purchase and please come back and show us pictures!!!