Trump gives anti-vax movement a shot in the arm

[kenny]

Of course.
What else would you expect from our wonderful president?

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/2/15/14231266/anti-vaccine-movement-trump

"Trump may embolden the anti-vaxxers — but states have the power to push back
Every health researcher I talked to for this piece worried that President Trump’s seeming willingness to court anti-vaxxers like Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is emboldening the movement.

Infectious diseases doctor Paul Offit has linked the growing vaccine refusal to “[this] age where science denialism is institutionalized” — noting that several of Trump’s Cabinet picks hold views that are antithetical to science. “It’s just a world turned upside down.”

“[Vaccine denialism] could get worse under Trump,” Omer said, “not only because of his rhetoric but because of the cuts to the public health funding,” referring to the fact that money for public health measures like immunizations is on the chopping block under the current Republican Congress."

 

[monarch64]

Non-vax insurance? No, seriously.

 

[Arkteia]

What usually happens is that these antivaxxers have sick kids, and are neither too smart nor educated to get to the roots of it. Natural paranoia might be present, because after all, kids did get their traits from someone, genetically. And when moms coalesce into groups, and everything turns into group support multiplied by cult-like effect.

It is difficult to understand everything that goes into the science of autism. Maybe the medical community does not do enough to educate. Sadly, medical programs on TV are mostly Dr.Oz and the likes.

That Trump supports these nonsensical statements merely means that inside, he is also of the type that believes in conspiracies and pseudoscience and does not want to dig deeper.

There is a lot of mistrust in big Pharma, culminating in absurd statement ("they know treatment for cancer but are suppressing the results of the studies").

Homeopathy, originally flawed theory, is abundant.

Obama explained it in a nutshell, "lack of critical thinking".

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Kenny, just thought I'd mention that Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. is a Democrat and an awesome advocate for the environment and public health. (He's currently going after Monsanto for the Round-Up disaster, for one.) You posted a false statement when you said he is an anti-vaxxer as he states on his website, "I am pro-vaccine and always have been." He does support finding out if vaccines are safe and if the vaccine schedule is safe. I can't imagine why anyone would oppose that! We do need to have evaluation of anything we put into our bodies, and many vaccines have NOT had adequate testing and there are many vaccine injuries reported. My view after doing a good bit of reading is that we give too many vaccines at a time too early, and I would NEVER give the current quantity of vaccines by the current schedule. Anyone who reasons at all can understand why all newborns do not need a Hep B immunization before leaving the hospital (those with Hep B positive mothers and immediate family might).

In actuality, there has been some recent research that supports the premise that acetaminophen (Tylenol), often given after the MMR or other vaccines, may be the true problem or at least a trigger for serious problems including Autism in some children. So some may have been wrong about the vaccine-Autism connection, but that doesn't mean there aren't other issues. Clearly there are not enough studies to find out what is causing health problems and SIDs in certain children and infants.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20030462

https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/acetaminophenautism-alarm-2167-0501.1000e148.php?aid=22301

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0300060517693423

I do have huge concerns over the vaccine injuries being reported after the Gardasil vaccine, which absolutely was not researched enough before putting it on the vaccine schedule. The fact that the pharmaceutical industry cannot be held accountable by lawsuits is a very good reason to be cautious.

Bottom line, I am glad there are those investigating what has caused the massive increase in autism and other disorders in children such as ADHD, asthma, allergies, etc. This has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with caring about safe foods, safe water, safe vaccines, safe medicines for our children and for ourselves. Like RFKjr, I am not anti-vax, but I am also not going to put my head in the sand and pretend there are not some serious problems and conflicts of interest.

 

[kenny]

You posted a false statement when you said he is an anti-vaxxer as he states on his website, ....

Thanks DS2006


As you can see in this screen capture from seconds ago, I just copied and pasted what VOX published.

 

[Karl_K]

article fails the stupid test and has a clickbait title.
*yawn*

 

[AGBF]

Bottom line, I am glad there are those investigating what has caused the massive increase in autism and other disorders in children such as ADHD, asthma, allergies, etc. This has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with caring about safe foods, safe water, safe vaccines, safe medicines for our children and for ourselves. Like RFKjr, I am not anti-vax, but I am also not going to put my head in the sand and pretend there are not some serious problems and conflicts of interest.

Thank you for your thoughtful response in this thread, ds. I found it very interesting. I do find it terribly ironic that Trump would suddenly care about potential harm from vaccines as he lays waste to the environment, exposing children to many carcinogens and other poisons from which previous administrations attempted to shield them. It is impossible to believe that he cares about the health of American children as he poisons their water and the land in which their food is grown. I do not love big Pharma, but I also do not want to see Trump dismantle the EPA.

Again: thank you for your contribution to the thread.

Deb

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Thanks DS2006


As you can see in this screen capture from seconds ago, I just copied and pasted what VOX published.

Thanks, Kenny. I find myself checking multiple sources everytime I read something, because honestly, there is such crazy bias on both sides of anything controversial, that you can't trust ANY news source or webpage, really.

 

[t-c]

Kenny, just thought I'd mention that Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. is a Democrat and an awesome advocate for the environment and public health. (He's currently going after Monsanto for the Round-Up disaster, for one.) You posted a false statement when you said he is an anti-vaxxer as he states on his website, "I am pro-vaccine and always have been." He does support finding out if vaccines are safe and if the vaccine schedule is safe. I can't imagine why anyone would oppose that! We do need to have evaluation of anything we put into our bodies, and many vaccines have NOT had adequate testing and there are many vaccine injuries reported. My view after doing a good bit of reading is that we give too many vaccines at a time too early, and I would NEVER give the current quantity of vaccines by the current schedule. Anyone who reasons at all can understand why all newborns do not need a Hep B immunization before leaving the hospital (those with Hep B positive mothers and immediate family might).

In actuality, there has been some recent research that supports the premise that acetaminophen (Tylenol), often given after the MMR or other vaccines, may be the true problem or at least a trigger for serious problems including Autism in some children. So some may have been wrong about the vaccine-Autism connection, but that doesn't mean there aren't other issues. Clearly there are not enough studies to find out what is causing health problems and SIDs in certain children and infants.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20030462

https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/acetaminophenautism-alarm-2167-0501.1000e148.php?aid=22301

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0300060517693423

I do have huge concerns over the vaccine injuries being reported after the Gardasil vaccine, which absolutely was not researched enough before putting it on the vaccine schedule. The fact that the pharmaceutical industry cannot be held accountable by lawsuits is a very good reason to be cautious.

Bottom line, I am glad there are those investigating what has caused the massive increase in autism and other disorders in children such as ADHD, asthma, allergies, etc. This has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with caring about safe foods, safe water, safe vaccines, safe medicines for our children and for ourselves. Like RFKjr, I am not anti-vax, but I am also not going to put my head in the sand and pretend there are not some serious problems and conflicts of interest.

Please realize that when drugs, including, vaccines go out to the public, they are not abandoned by the FDA nor the drug companies. Both are legally obligated to track and report any adverse reaction, including things as simple as skin flushing. This is considered Phase 4 of the drug development. And one of the reasons a drug will never be called “completely safe” — drug companies and the FDA know that even if Phase 3 was conducted with thousands of patients, it may not capture all the possible reactions from millions of users and repeat-users or all the possible drug-drug combinations found in the wild.

So, your call for more studies and data collection? They are being done. It is mandated by law — and your responsibility as a patient is to report adverse reactions to your doctor or even to drug companies (see drug websites). Now you may not be happy with the pace of reporting — there may be no new or statistically significant insights worth publishing. Maybe you aren’t happy with the conclusions — millions of people have received the vaccines for years with no adverse side effects. Not denying that some people do have adverse reactions, but given the ratio, health authorities can declare it as safe, not “completely or 100% safe”, but safe.

The problem is a lot of people demand a finding of 100% safe, (you’ll never get from drug companies — scientists are usually precise with their statements) and they use this demand as a reason for delaying or refusing vaccinations.

I just want people to have and interpret information properly. As I’ve posted before, I’ve dealt with this kind of information and I find it hard to directly apply it to real life, so I can imagine how hard it would be for a lay-person not used to stats.

 

[katharath]

A quick google search of Kennedy Jr's views turned up these results (I remembered something about a link from RK Jr to Trump and I wanted to investigate). I tried to choose from sites that are "mainstream", but there was an avalanche of this info out there. I'll also link to a Slate piece that gives a very interesting perspective on Kennedy re: this issue. In other words, Vox seems to be as accurate as everyone else about this topic. Kennedy may want to claim that he's not a conspiracy theorist anti vaxxer, but his actions and words don't support that.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astr...cate_for_antiscience_and_antivaccination.html

 

[diamondseeker2006]

@katharath, why don't you just quote from first hand sources? It's just a flat lie that RFK is anti-vax! Those are proof of how lies are spread in the media.

https://www.robertfkennedyjr.com/docs/trace-amounts-robert-f-kennedy-.pdf

I think it's extremely consistent of him to be an environmentalist and concerned about the safety substances we inject into the bodies of our children.

I will add this, science changes over time as we learn new information. The recent studies that are connecting acetaminophen with Autism are extremely interesting. It just goes to show, something deemed safe may be found to cause something that was simply never even thought of. Being cautious and educated on adverse affects of any vaccine or drug is wise.

 

[t-c]

@katharath, why don't you just quote from first hand sources? It's just a flat lie that RFK is anti-vax! Those are proof of how lies are spread in the media.

https://www.robertfkennedyjr.com/docs/trace-amounts-robert-f-kennedy-.pdf

I think it's extremely consistent of him to be an environmentalist and concerned about the safety substances we inject into the bodies of our children.

I will add this, science changes over time as we learn new information. The recent studies that are connecting acetaminophen with Autism are extremely interesting. It just goes to show, something deemed safe may be found to cause something that was simply never even thought of. Being cautious and educated on adverse affects of any vaccine or drug is wise.

Of course it does, but one must make policies based on current knowledge or reasonable inference.

While there may be a association between acetaminophen use and autism presented in the International Journal of Epidemiology, there is no evidence of a direct causation between the two that you seem to be making.

Most women who are taking acetaminophen do so because of fever and fever and hyperthermia can cause brain damage. So we don't know whether the cause of neurological damage is the drug or the underlying disease (fever).

Edited to add: there is a study at UC Davis in 2012 that suggests that not controlling the fever, of which taking acetaminophen is one method, more than doubles the risk of autism. See here and here. So which are you going to believe? I suggest reading both papers and evaluating their methods and any holes in their data.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Of course it does, but one must make policies based on current knowledge or reasonable inference.

While there may be a association between acetaminophen use and autism presented in the International Journal of Epidemiology, there is no evidence of a direct causation between the two that you seem to be making.

Most women who are taking acetaminophen do so because of fever and fever and hyperthermia can cause brain damage. So we don't know whether the cause of neurological damage is the drug or the underlying disease (fever).

Edited to add: there is a study at UC Davis in 2012 that suggests that not controlling the fever, of which taking acetaminophen is one method, more than doubles the risk of autism. See here and here. So which are you going to believe? I suggest reading both papers and evaluating their methods and any holes in their data.

t-c, I said I thought some studies were interesting. I am sorry you misinterpreted the meaning of my statement. I don't have a problem with your last statement, because controlling fever can be necessary at times. However, I would personally not use acetaminophen at this point for that purpose. In fact, I haven't taken Tylenol in the last 10 or 15 years.

I am not anti-vaccine. I only came on the thread to say that RFK is not anti-vax. My kids were all fully vaccinated by the schedules in effect at the time. I would feel differently now that there are 3-4 times as many and would likely alter the schedule. I research all medications before my family takes them. I didn't do that in the past and I learned the hard way that the negatives are rarely explained as the prescriptions are written. But I am happy we all have access to information and the freedom to make the best possible decisions for ourselves and our children.

 

[t-c]

t-c, I said I thought some studies were interesting. I am sorry you misinterpreted the meaning of my statement. I don't have a problem with your last statement, because controlling fever can be necessary at times. However, I would personally not use acetaminophen at this point for that purpose. In fact, I haven't taken Tylenol in the last 10 or 15 years.

I am not anti-vaccine. I only came on the thread to say that RFK is not anti-vax. My kids were all fully vaccinated by the schedules in effect at the time. I would feel differently now that there are 3-4 times as many and would likely alter the schedule. I research all medications before my family takes them. I didn't do that in the past and I learned the hard way that the negatives are rarely explained as the prescriptions are written. But I am happy we all have access to information and the freedom to make the best possible decisions for ourselves and our children.

You wrote: the recent studies that are connecting acetaminophen with Autism are extremely interesting. Then in the next sentence wrote: it just goes to show, something deemed safe may be found to cause something that was simply never even thought of. It was that second sentence that made me think you were making a causal connection between taking acetaminophen while pregnant and the child developing autism. If you weren't talking about acetaminophen and autism, what is "it" and what is the "something" and what does that something cause that you were referring to in your second sentence?

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