Home Trouble with Mom - what would you do?

[drk]

My mother and father have been divorced for 18 years now. Dad is remarried, Mom is single. They've never had a particularly cordial relationship, and even had me crying the night before I got married when Mom refused to move her car slightly in the parking lot of the little hotel we were all staying in so that Dad could also park his. There was plenty of room for both.

Two stories from a recent visit to set the stage:

Dad and his wife were visiting us for the first part of the week two weeks ago and were condo-hunting in town. They found a place they liked and bid on it. We looked it up online and were around when they were discussing one of the offers with their real estate agent, so we knew how much they paid, which we wouldn't discuss with anyone else because it's a private matter of theirs.
Then the next day after they left, Mom was visiting and started asking about what they were doing in town, and did they find something. How big? We told her 2 bedrooms + a den. First came a snide remark about how my father couldn't live without an office. Then she had the nerve to ask how much they paid for it. When we declined to tell her (first trying to say we didn't really know, then when she asked if we knew and just didn't want to tell her, saying no we didn't want to tell), she got into a big snit, told me that I always make conversations about my father so difficult, and stormed off.
We both feel she was totally inappropriate asking about how much he paid for it. She always likes to go on about how well off he is (she did very well in the divorce settlement), so we also don't need to add fuel to that fire.
She hid out in the guest room in the basement for the better part of an hour, and didn't even respond when I shouted down that her granddaughter was done eating and was ready to play. Ages later she came back upstairs, walked into the family room looking furious, and sat down to glare at me and tell me how I always put her in a bad position when it comes to my father, by refusing to talk about him and making her ask questions. How I don't need to make it always so awkward to talk about him, just because he left and married someone else and I'm mad at him. At this point, 18 years later, I couldn't care less, apart from the annoyance it causes with my mother. I told her I don't mind talking about him and what he's doing, but it's inappropriate to discuss his finances with anyone but him. She also went on about how it's not her fault that he left and never apologized to her for leaving and marrying someone else.

The following day we had a family pool party, but since we had a previous committment to have friends come over and visit, we had to go in separate cars and leave early to come home and have dinner with the friends. Mum was to come home later in her own car. We had a BBQ dinner in the back courtyard with the fountain running, and it's totally enclosed when the side path gate is shut. The fountain is loud, and although we heard some shouting, we couldn't understand it and thought it was the neighbours. Apparently the phone that our doorbell connects to disconnected from its base station. All of a sudden, Mum was storming into the courtyard from the side of the house (how the heck did she get the gate open??), asking how we could possibly not have heard her shouting, ringing the doorbell etc. Both of us were stunned to see her appear. My DH said "this is my MIL", and my mother rushed off into the house (or so it felt to me) in a horrible mood.
Then the baby woke up, so I went inside to get her and her milk to feed her. Mum was in the kitchen, and attacked me for being so rude as to not introduce her to our friends. Did I know how awkward that made her feel, to be standing beside the table for ages being stared at by DH's friends who were obviously waiting to be introduced to her. Blah blah blah, "you have no social skills". Refused to recognize that she'd not really given us any time to make introductions.
When I went back out, nearly in tears, I told the friends what she'd said, and they agreed with me that she'd pretty much rushed past the table in a foul mood, leaving no real time for introductions.

I guess the gist of it is that although I love my mother, she tends to be a bit high maintenance. She lives 2 hours away from us, but doesn't get invited to visit often because there inevitably ends up being some awkward or upsetting situation. DH and I are very introverted, and don't like trying to make conversation constantly. Conversations with her can be a trial, because she's often fairly critical. She gets the baby out of her usual good daily rhythm. We'll tell her to leave the baby to make noise in her crib for a few min after a nap so that we can see if she'll drop off to sleep again (sometimes she does), and the next thing you know she's run upstairs to get her up at the slightest peep. She won't leave the baby to play on her own on her play mat or in her jumper, but has to be in her face constantly, holding her and stimulating her. (The baby plays very nicely on her own for 15min or so at a time if left to her own devices)

I know that she's lonely at home, especially as she's no longer working. It would be nice if it were easier to have her around, because then we could invite her to visit more often. As it is, we sort of dread visits, because inevitably I'll end up really upset about something she says or does, and she'll end up in a huff and telling me off about something.

I was discussing the awful weekend with a couple people at work, and one of them said that she thought my mother would appreciate it if I sat her down and had a talk about all this. I'm not so sure, and also not sure what exactly I would say. "Mom, I love you, but I don't want to invite you to visit more often because we always get into a fight or unpleasant situation over something. I need you to be less critical of me, and slower to get angry and fly off the cuff. And get over the divorce finally, please?"

I'd love to hear if any of you have brilliant ideas of how I should handle the mother situation.

 

[Steel]

I'm sorry that even 18 years on, you are still in the middle of your parents. This isn't your doing or your fault and I'm sorry you have to see your parents as people rather than a 'unit'. I don't know if that would even bother you at this stage of your life but I suppose we are always kids and our parents always mom & dad.

That said let me give you my taking which is from more your mom's POV.

She is out. Her marriage is gone. Her husband has somebody new. You have a husband and family. She doesn't. Marriage & divorce isn't about fault but when you are the one 'out' it kinda feels like you got a raw deal.

She disrupts the baby's schedule because she can't remember any better. She is not around enough to know that children need a schedule and she may feel that she needs to spend as much time as possible when 'the going is good' because if there is another row she may not get to play, cuddle or feed her grandbaby. She is greedy for time and I don't blame her. I would solve this one by encouraging her like she did (hopefully) to you when you were young. Let her know when she is doing a great job as a Granny and how much she is needed to be in your and your child's (sorry I can't remember if you have more than 1 child ) life. And let her know that because she is needed, she needn't worry about how much time she spends with the child in this visit if it conflicts with the child's schedule because you need her to come back very very soon and she will not miss out in the long run.

The parking issue, party issue and general grumpiness and strops are all down to her feeling like an outsider. She is holding onto what she sees as her only footing (against her ex) and is making a last stand. He has a lot; and she may too, but I bet she see it that everybody has somebody but her. So giving 'in' by moving the car was a straw too many. She didn't mean to upset you; it wasn't about you. It was about not giving any more to him. She was embarrassed at the party; that she couldn't get in (EDIT). It struck a nerve that she feels like an outsider; trying to get in and she was too needy to want to be a part of your life that she just didn't walk away. She probably hated that side of her - wanting to get in. So she threw a strop. It was childish and again not about you. About her. Solve this by: The parking; get your dad to park else where. If it had been an unknown stranger parked there you would not hunt them down to move. But because you knew it was her car she was supposed to move. In her eyes he lost the right to be able to get her to move when they divorced; now that it suits him to park next to her- suddenly she is no longer a stranger; it is ok, ill get my ex-wife to shift her car. She thinks - no bucko- I'm a stranger now. As for the party. I would have laughed an apology; saying how embarrassing for you and could she forgive you, how upset you would have been if she were not able to get in; any of that to make her embarrassment less and make her feel welcomed.

Yes, I know. Why should you bother? It is high-maintenance work. I would do it because I see her POV. She is not trying to be a pain. She is hurting. But mostly, I would do it because I would want somebody to do it for me.

What do you think, am I way off base?

 

[phoenixgirl]

I don't know, Steal, I do kind of think you're off base. I think that understanding somebody's POV, and knowing that bad behavior is caused by pain and not malice, does not mean that you kowtow to that bad behavior. The majority of dysfunctional people act out of pain, but that doesn't mean we have to accept the way that they act (just maybe how they feel).

DRK, My DH's parents are divorced, and he does have to remind them often that he is not going to be the messenger between them. MIL is divorcing the man she left FIL for, and we've known that for a couple of months, but we didn't mention it to FIL (and DH works with him every day). She did eventually tell him herself. It's not your job to be the go-between or gossip.

The party tantrum is an interesting one . . . a grown woman so upset by her perceived slight that she can't behave civilly to strangers. Has she always been like this? I was at my friend's baby shower, and when she opened the sling I got her (off her registry), her mother suddenly exclaimed, "Oh no! I got you a sling too! I wish you had opened my present before hers!" Seriously??? She would have preferred that a guest had the embarrassment instead of herself? That reminds me of your story. I guess age doesn't predict whether or not we're "grown-up"?

I agree with Steal that getting to the root of her emotions will help you better deal with her actions, but I'm not sure I'd promise to see her a lot. My gut is that her feelings of vulnerability have always been with her, and while they may augmented by your father's and your situations, they will exist no matter what you do. So don't kowtow. Just arrange things so that when you do see her, it's in manageable increments, and don't be a go-between or gossip between the parents.

 

[Mara]

DRK I have a friend who also has a similar situation and the Mom never got remarried, never got over the divorce, never got over being 'left behind'. She was a SAHM and she made out really well in the divorce, but the hub got remarried, of course to a younger wife, and is having a good life. She is bitter and unhappy, feels like she 'wasted her life' and it makes her a not very fun person to be around. When I hear tales like this it's so sad to me because basically one person is hanging on so hard to how they were wronged and the past that they never really get to have that full life they deserve and if the other mate does then they are even more upset about it. I actually know more than one story like this, sadly enough--and while I UNDERSTAND how one can feel that way--they are making the effort to stay stuck in that mindset and never move on.

Unfortunately, it probably will take a lot of work to get through to your mother. She's your mother so only you can determine if you want to spend time doing it, but usually when people have YEARS to learn to be one way (aka bitter, unhappy, feeling always wronged) it is extremely hard to change them or help them change into someone else or back into who they maybe used to be. And it's TIRING.

Normally when people you love act out like that, it's not that they want to upset you or hurt you but they genuinely believe what they are saying or how they feel wronged--they just don't think about anything else. My grandma is a lot like that type of personality too and it makes it hard to be around her for long periods of time. My Mom wants to spend more time with her because as Grandma is getting older her time here is obviously limited but on the flip side when that person just upsets you or critiques you the whole time, you never leave feeling good about it and then you dread seeing them again. The other thing I would say is that based on my own experience and seeing my friend in a similar situ, the people like this don't typically get BETTER they seem to only get worse as they age--most likely because they feel even more alone.

Now that you have a baby in the situation--I would be thinking about how I wanted K to grow up. And determine if you want your Mom in her life regardless of what you may have to try to accomplish--or the flip side. I agree you should try sitting down with your Mom and telling her how you feel and how difficult it makes things and stress how badly you want things to change and work out. And while I think you can easily see it from her side, on the other hand, you can see it from her side but FIXING it may be another matter. It may not be easily fixable OR fixable at all. Your Mom should probably get some therapy so that she can work through her own issues on her own time and then you can work on your relationship once she has some clarity.

Does she have a friend group? Women she can turn to for support? The other thing I have noticed as a 'trend' in these types of situations is that most of the times the women don't have a strong support group or a good base of women friends to talk to or turn to. It's like they internalize everything and then it just spews out onto those that are left that still love them. I would encourage you to help your Mom get out there and make some friends, I know it's hard when you are older but it would probably help her to get out and see the world a bit in a different light.

How is she with the baby? Do you see them building a positive relationship? Anyway I am so sorry you have to deal with this...now that I have the baby the last thing I ever want to deal with is any drama because I just want to be enjoying my family and doing what I need to do , aka working and taking care of my life. Anything else seems so hard to take on, good luck.

ETA... PG you would be amazed the things that grown people do when they feel they are wronged or in the right... I have seen similar situations as mentioned above and the parents end up acting like CHILDREN sometimes. Just crazy!

Oh and DRK I also think you are doing the right thing by not sharing info with your Mom. I would also tell her she is putting you in a bad situ and that you flat out do not want to discuss your father with her ever again. I would refuse to be in that middle situation.

 

[StonieGrl]

Your mother is not "high maintenance," she is a controlling narcissist who, when she does not get what she wants when she wants it, lets loose on whoever is in the vicinity until she gets what she wants.

You are an adult now: You should NOT be put in a position to have to explain your relationship with ANYONE (i.e., asking for understanding, approval, etc.) to/with your mother, including your child, your spouse, you father and his present wife, your employer, your neighbors, etc.

You are accountable to yourself first and whoever comes after that is at your discretion and hopefully good judgement.

 

[Bliss]

Ohhhh, this is going to be so tough and my heart goes out to you. Clearly, you love her dearly and have done so much to include her in your family's life. It sounds to me like she is not likely to change at her age. If you try to talk to her, she may get VERY defensive and it will take many many talks like this (with you ending up in tears) to even make the smallest dent.

I think one of the best ways to stay sane and keep her in your life is to "train" her. That is to say, as soon as an unacceptable behavior comes up - say something like, "OK, that really hurt my feelings and I feel you are being unreasonable again. If you're ready to discuss it, I'm here. But if not, I really have to go. I love you, bye!" And end the phone conversation. She does not "get" to lay into you or use you as her venting tool whenever she's in pain. She either has to use her grown up words or the contact ends for the day. At first, it may seem cruel to you but I assure you that it's not. You're not doing either of yourselves a favor by swallowing this mental abuse. It comes out as resentment and ultimately undermines what can be a decent relationship.

If she's at your house, tell her that you think it's best that she come back another time when she's ready to be reasonable. But do calmly end the visit with a firm hand abruptly and do not react to her crying or hysterics. She will learn in time. She will not hate you forever or drop off the face of the earth. She will always love you and when you're feeling strong enough or when she is, you can resume contact again. I think people as they get older become more like children, unfortunately. And it's going to be VERY hard to change her. So you might have to modify your behavior to curb hers and draw boundaries for yourself and for your family when she gets out of hand. I'm sorry it's so difficult for you, I really feel for you! She has to learn that this is unacceptable and if she does not change, the cookie goes back into the cookie jar.

Ahhh, but my heart breaks for your poor mom as well. She sounds like a good person who is going through a lot of pain. And it sounds like she never learned how to cope and work through her life's disappointments and heartaches. Some people are stunted in growth emotionally and never learn how to heal. Like a tree that was warped from a big storm, they grow in crooked ways.

One thing that is totally unacceptable, however, is how she puts you in the middle. That is WRONG... so wrong to pit a child against her parents or put her in the middle. You are not her therapist and should not be her sounding board for criticisms against your father. That should always abruptly be stopped whenever she starts down that path. I do feel for her, though. She sounds like she is very lonely, anxious and frightened...like a little girl. My thoughts are with you both!

 

[movie zombie]

Your mother is not "high maintenance," she is a controlling narcissist who, when she does not get what she wants when she wants it, lets loose on whoever is in the vicinity until she gets what she wants.

You are an adult now: You should NOT be put in a position to have to explain your relationship with ANYONE (i.e., asking for understanding, approval, etc.) to/with your mother, including your child, your spouse, you father and his present wife, your employer, your neighbors, etc.

You are accountable to yourself first and whoever comes after that is at your discretion and hopefully good judgement.

i agree. i also agree with Mara that mom has made the decion to stay stuck....for whatever reason. notyour job to change her. accept her as she is and set limits with her.....meaning limit your time with her and where you are with her.

you have your own family now and want to provide the best for it. unfortunately, she's more demanding and self-centered than your child. visit with her at her place. tell her you are no longer willing to discuss any aspect of your father's life with her. if she has questions, she can direct them to him. its her problem if she gets mad....and her loss if her actions mean you sever ties with her.

Mo-Zo

 

[Dreamer_D]

Yup, time to set some boundaries with Mother Dearest

How to do it depends on a couple of things in my mind.

Do you think she is capable of change? How would she react to an honest conversation? You can perhaps base your answers on past interactions with her.

If you think she had a modicum of self-awareness and can perhaps change her ways if you ask, and then enforce, new social rules, then I think you should do it. Just today I sent my mother and e-mail asking her to change how she is behaving with DH and I (I thought e-mail was better because she could process the information before replying and because I could say everything in the best way possible). I think she will make an effort, and I will follow up in future if she crosses the line at any time. But though we have issues with DH's family too, with them we do not think they will change. We also think that they will be very hurt if we bring it up and would hold a grudge. So with them we opt to limit contact/conversation in the areas where there is diagreement. And I admit that it is easier because they live very far away.

But whether you have a conversation or change your own behaviour only, you should set some new ground rules. No one, even your parent, has a right to treat you disrespectfully or to behave in ways that hurt you.

 

[hlmr]

"Mom, I love you, but I don't want to invite you to visit more often because we always get into a fight or unpleasant situation over something. I need you to be less critical of me, and slower to get angry and fly off the cuff. And get over the divorce finally, please?"

I think this is the perfect thing to say to your Mom. I would also add that it is important she be a positive influence in your daughter's life, as well as yours, and tell her that it is okay for you to have a relationship with your father, even though she was hurt in her own relationship with him.

 

[Hera]

"Mom, I love you, but I don't want to invite you to visit more often because we always get into a fight or unpleasant situation over something. I need you to be less critical of me, and slower to get angry and fly off the cuff. And get over the divorce finally, please?"

I think this is the perfect thing to say to your Mom. I would also add that it is important she be a positive influence in your daughter's life, as well as yours, and tell her that it is okay for you to have a relationship with your father, even though she was hurt in her own relationship with him.

I agree, tell her this. However, don't get your hopes too high, some people possess the desire to change and others don't. I have a mom who exhibits similar behavior and she doesn't ever get it. It's in the fiber of her being to be negative, complain, be critical and fly off the handle (histrionic). I have told her this multiple times, but it sinks in for 5 minutes and she never really understands it. I have asked that we go to counseling but she won't go and I can't make her. If people want to change and get help, they will seek it out. I have come to be more accepting and call and see her less. It's the only way I can have a relationship with her.

 

[anchor31]

Ugh. DrK, your mom sounds like both my ILs, who are still (very unhappily) married. It's a very difficult situation to deal with, having such negativity around you, and they're just like broken records. They say the same things over and over and over again... Funny thing about my ILs, is that they both say exactly the same thing! DH has tried to tell them he's sick of being in the middle of it, but they both got pissy and then just keep doing it. He tries to ignore them, but I just hate how he gets in this mood every time he talks to them.

I see Steal's point. People like your mom and my ILs are very unhappy and are so used to being in their particular situation that they don't know what else to do. However, like PhoenixGirl pointed out, it doesn't necessarily make their behaviour acceptable, and their company desirable. To answer your original question, I would do what DH tried to do with his parents and try to talk to her. Tell her that you know she's hurting, etc., but you love both your parents and refuse to be stuck in the remnants of their divorce. That you love her and love seeing her, but would prefer not to discuss your father with her because it upsets you. (or something like that) It might not work, or maybe she'll be mad for a while, but it might also help.

I understand how upsetting it can be with K too! Just the thought of having my ILs mutter their insults about each other with my little J around make me feel sick. At somepoint soon I'll have to set up a boundary about that (no badmouthing other people around J), so maybe that could help with your situation with your mother too?

 

[diva rose]

I'm sorry that even 18 years on, you are still in the middle of your parents. This isn't your doing or your fault and I'm sorry you have to see your parents as people rather than a 'unit'. I don't know if that would even bother you at this stage of your life but I suppose we are always kids and our parents always mom & dad.

That said let me give you my taking which is from more your mom's POV.

She is out. Her marriage is gone. Her husband has somebody new. You have a husband and family. She doesn't. Marriage & divorce isn't about fault but when you are the one 'out' it kinda feels like you got a raw deal.

She disrupts the baby's schedule because she can't remember any better. She is not around enough to know that children need a schedule and she may feel that she needs to spend as much time as possible when 'the going is good' because if there is another row she may not get to play, cuddle or feed her grandbaby. She is greedy for time and I don't blame her. I would solve this one by encouraging her like she did (hopefully) to you when you were young. Let her know when she is doing a great job as a Granny and how much she is needed to be in your and your child's (sorry I can't remember if you have more than 1 child ) life. And let her know that because she is needed, she needn't worry about how much time she spends with the child in this visit if it conflicts with the child's schedule because you need her to come back very very soon and she will not miss out in the long run.

The parking issue, party issue and general grumpiness and strops are all down to her feeling like an outsider. She is holding onto what she sees as her only footing (against her ex) and is making a last stand. He has a lot; and she may too, but I bet she see it that everybody has somebody but her. So giving 'in' by moving the car was a straw too many. She didn't mean to upset you; it wasn't about you. It was about not giving any more to him. She was embarrassed at the party; that she couldn't get in (EDIT). It struck a nerve that she feels like an outsider; trying to get in and she was too needy to want to be a part of your life that she just didn't walk away. She probably hated that side of her - wanting to get in. So she threw a strop. It was childish and again not about you. About her. Solve this by: The parking; get your dad to park else where. If it had been an unknown stranger parked there you would not hunt them down to move. But because you knew it was her car she was supposed to move. In her eyes he lost the right to be able to get her to move when they divorced; now that it suits him to park next to her- suddenly she is no longer a stranger; it is ok, ill get my ex-wife to shift her car. She thinks - no bucko- I'm a stranger now. As for the party. I would have laughed an apology; saying how embarrassing for you and could she forgive you, how upset you would have been if she were not able to get in; any of that to make her embarrassment less and make her feel welcomed.

Yes, I know. Why should you bother? It is high-maintenance work. I would do it because I see her POV. She is not trying to be a pain. She is hurting. But mostly, I would do it because I would want somebody to do it for me.

What do you think, am I way off base?

I think you are right on the mark.
People who have suffered a failed marriage or was left behind by their spouse have many insecurities.

DRK - your mother is clearly not over what happened between your father and her.
I was just wondering - did he cheat on her with his current wife?

Yes she is being difficult however you need to place yourself in her shoes.
How would you like it if your DH left you for another woman and you have to see them?

We can all sit here and say what your mother did was not appropriate etc.
But really if we were left behind by our partner and felt our youth has faded away etc - I think most of us would be bitter for a long time. You'd lose confidence in yourself and feel lost/alone.

Your mother is being difficult but you need to be there for her. I suggest therapy - a professional can help give you ideas how to address this situation and get your mother out of this stage in life.

 

[Anonymous]

"Mom, I love you, but I don't want to invite you to visit more often because we always get into a fight or unpleasant situation over something. I need you to be less critical of me, and slower to get angry and fly off the cuff. And get over the divorce finally, please?"

I think this is the perfect thing to say to your Mom. I would also add that it is important she be a positive influence in your daughter's life, as well as yours, and tell her that it is okay for you to have a relationship with your father, even though she was hurt in her own relationship with him.

Ditto this. I don't know if it's been said yet, but I also think that it'd be be a good idea to tell her that from now on, you won't discuss your father with her at all. At first she will pitch a huge fit, but if you stick to your boundaries, eventually she will learn that it's a waste of time for her to keep pushing.

I'm guessing that she is hurting, as others have mentioned, but the only way to remove the negative impact that their divorce is causing your relationship with her is to stop communicating about him altogether until her negative feelings are no longer there...which may never actually happen, unfortunately. Maybe telling her this from a gentle, loving "I really want a relationship with YOU, because I value YOU as my mother and I don't want this to interfere anymore" perspective would help. I don't know, just throwing out thoughts I guess.

 

[lliang_chi]

DKR, sounds like your mom is in big need for counseling. She's clearly not worked through her feelings and the ladies here gave you great advice, but I think you'll need a "back up" team with you. Good luck.