Tradeoff: Signature Ideal vs. Ideal / F vs. G / VS2 vs. SI1

[echostate]

Hi!

I am looking for a diamond ring for my girl. My budget is about $6000. Based on this budget, I need to make the following trade-off (note that I already restrict myself to small ranges as follows):

Budget: $5000 - $6500

1) Carat: 0.9 -- 1.0 (sure, larger than 1.0 is better, but i'm not sure if it's possible within my budget ?)
2) Cut: GIA ideal -- Signature ideal or Hearts & Arrows
3) Color: G -- F
4) Clarity: SI1 -- VS2
5) Polish: GIA very good -- GIA excellent
6) Symmetry: GIA very good -- GIA excellent


My question is, among the six choices I listed above, which ones are less important so that I can sacrifice. For example, if the so-called "signature ideal" cut from some store (e.g., Bluenile) is just a trick, and I only need GIA ideal cut. Or for example, downgrade from color F to G is really nothing.

It will be great if anyone can suggest a ranking when I need to sacrifice the above six criteria (within the ranges I listed).

Also, I also appreiciate if any suggest to break my ranges, e.g., "downgrading other criteria to find a 1.1/1.2 carat diamond within the budget makes more sense".

Thanks! Have a great day!

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 5/15/2009 4:01:57 PM
Author:echostate
Hi!

I am looking for a diamond ring for my girl. My budget is about $6000. Based on this budget, I need to make the following trade-off (note that I already restrict myself to small ranges as follows):

Budget: $5000 - $6500

1) Carat: 0.9 -- 1.0 (sure, larger than 1.0 is better, but i'm not sure if it's possible within my budget ?)
2) Cut: GIA ideal -- Signature ideal or Hearts & Arrows
3) Color: G -- F
4) Clarity: SI1 -- VS2
5) Polish: GIA very good -- GIA excellent
6) Symmetry: GIA very good -- GIA excellent

My question is, among the six choices I listed above, which ones are less important so that I can sacrifice. For example, if the so-called 'signature ideal' cut from some store (e.g., Bluenile) is just a trick, and I only need GIA ideal cut. Or for example, downgrade from color F to G is really nothing.

It will be great if anyone can suggest a ranking when I need to sacrifice the above six criteria (within the ranges I listed).

Also, I also appreiciate if any suggest to break my ranges, e.g., 'downgrading other criteria to find a 1.1/1.2 carat diamond within the budget makes more sense'.

Thanks! Have a great day!

H&A stone just means that the stone has great optical symm, but a stone with optical symm may not necessary be cut to have a H&A pattern or great optical performance. A stone with great optical performance, excellent symm might not necessary imply a H&A stone.

Signature Ideal, depends on the vendor and personal taste. BN signature Ideal is just stones they own and went to GCAL for an extra grading report, most of which are quite well cut, but their claims of H&A pattern is not substantiated by a Hearts image. JA's H&A collections are similar case except that they are all AGS graded.

Ideal optical symm can improve the optical performance of the stone.

Color, I would go down to H at least, but I am very color insensitive. Take a look at this video to see where you stand.http://vimeo.com/3288695

Clarity, as long as it is eye-clean, possible even to I1 but difficult to find. Also take note of your fiancee's cultural and personal taste towards color and clarity.

Polish, less than GIA Ex/ AGS Id range is undetectable to layman, same for Symm. But if you are going for H&A, that combination is not available with WF's ACA stone.

Ranking, I would go
Clarity, Color, Polish, Symm, Carat, Cut.

If you are not going for H&A stone, cut before carat then. Use the HCA, https://www.pricescope.com/cutadviser.asp, to find stones outside of traditional Ex/Id cut range to get the best deal, but check back here, also read the warnings, http://diamonds.pricescope.com/ideal.asp. Preferably with accompanying IS/ASET image. What these are is explain here, http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=education-performance

 

[Ellen]

I agree, you could go to H, in a very well cut stone. An eyeclean SI1 is fine.

Is your budget for the stone and setting both, or just stone?

 

[echostate]

Hi,

Yes, I consider $6000 for the stone.

You mean I might consider downgrade color and clarity a little bit, in order to find signature ideal/H&A cut, right?

Also, if I purchase from website, how can I make sure to find a "eyeclean" SI1?

 

[echostate]

Date: 5/15/2009 4:22:54 PM
Author: Stone-cold11

Date: 5/15/2009 4:01:57 PM
Author:echostate
Hi!

I am looking for a diamond ring for my girl. My budget is about $6000. Based on this budget, I need to make the following trade-off (note that I already restrict myself to small ranges as follows):

Budget: $5000 - $6500

1) Carat: 0.9 -- 1.0 (sure, larger than 1.0 is better, but i''m not sure if it''s possible within my budget ?)
2) Cut: GIA ideal -- Signature ideal or Hearts & Arrows
3) Color: G -- F
4) Clarity: SI1 -- VS2
5) Polish: GIA very good -- GIA excellent
6) Symmetry: GIA very good -- GIA excellent

My question is, among the six choices I listed above, which ones are less important so that I can sacrifice. For example, if the so-called ''signature ideal'' cut from some store (e.g., Bluenile) is just a trick, and I only need GIA ideal cut. Or for example, downgrade from color F to G is really nothing.

It will be great if anyone can suggest a ranking when I need to sacrifice the above six criteria (within the ranges I listed).

Also, I also appreiciate if any suggest to break my ranges, e.g., ''downgrading other criteria to find a 1.1/1.2 carat diamond within the budget makes more sense''.

Thanks! Have a great day!

H&A stone just means that the stone has great optical symm, but a stone with optical symm may not necessary be cut to have a H&A pattern or great optical performance. A stone with great optical performance, excellent symm might not necessary imply a H&A stone.

Signature Ideal, depends on the vendor and personal taste. BN signature Ideal is just stones they own and went to GCAL for an extra grading report, most of which are quite well cut, but their claims of H&A pattern is not substantiated by a Hearts image. JA''s H&A collections are similar case except that they are all AGS graded.

Ideal optical symm can improve the optical performance of the stone.

Color, I would go down to H at least, but I am very color insensitive. Take a look at this video to see where you stand.http://vimeo.com/3288695

Clarity, as long as it is eye-clean, possible even to I1 but difficult to find. Also take note of your fiancee''s cultural and personal taste towards color and clarity.

Polish, less than GIA Ex/ AGS Id range is undetectable to layman, same for Symm. But if you are going for H&A, that combination is not available with WF''s ACA stone.

Ranking, I would go
Clarity, Color, Polish, Symm, Carat, Cut.

If you are not going for H&A stone, cut before carat then. Use the HCA, https://www.pricescope.com/cutadviser.asp, to find stones outside of traditional Ex/Id cut range to get the best deal, but check back here, also read the warnings, http://diamonds.pricescope.com/ideal.asp. Preferably with accompanying IS/ASET image. What these are is explain here, http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=education-performance

Thanks for the suggestions!

 

[centy]

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5377/

It comes in just under your $6,500 budget by doing a wire transfer. Maybe not the stone for you but an example that there is some good stuff out there within your range. That's a SI2, but if it's eye clean it could be a winner. The best way to know is look at the pics on the site and ask the vendor. Good luck!

 

[Ellen]

Date: 5/15/2009 4:43:20 PM
Author: echostate
Hi,

Yes, I consider $6000 for the stone.

You mean I might consider downgrade color and clarity a little bit, in order to find signature ideal/H&A cut, right?

Also, if I purchase from website, how can I make sure to find a 'eyeclean' SI1?

Purchase from a vendor that has the stones on site, and can give you real attention/info. Have the vendor look it over. BN is not one of them (their fine if above SI1), but here's some that are.

Whiteflash

Brian Gavin Diamonds

Goodoldgold

High Performance Diamonds

James Allen


And here's one I found, if eyeclean, that gets you over the 1 ct. mark, as a for instance. (would get a 2% PS discount off listed price)

http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-2106429.htm

 

[echostate]

Thanks both centy and Ellen!

Both of you mentioned to find a on-site stone, so that I can check if a SI1/SI2 stone is "eye-clean".

Is there any resource teaching how to do this. I am clearly a layman, so I''m not sure if I can do the "eye-clean" check.

Thanks!

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 5/15/2009 5:03:21 PM
Author: echostate
Thanks both centy and Ellen!

Both of you mentioned to find a on-site stone, so that I can check if a SI1/SI2 stone is ''eye-clean''.

Is there any resource teaching how to do this. I am clearly a layman, so I''m not sure if I can do the ''eye-clean'' check.

Thanks!

It is not you that checks the stone if it is eye-clean, there is not way it can be determine from just images. The vendor has to examine the stone physically to tell you that.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 5/15/2009 5:03:21 PM
Author: echostate
Thanks both centy and Ellen!

Both of you mentioned to find a on-site stone, so that I can check if a SI1/SI2 stone is 'eye-clean'.

Is there any resource teaching how to do this. I am clearly a layman, so I'm not sure if I can do the 'eye-clean' check.

Thanks!

All the places I listed have their stones on hand. All you do is find one you like, and then call the vendor. Tell them what one you are interested in, and say, I'd like to know if it's eyeclean. (If that means you don't want to see any inclusions at all, from any distance or angle, just let them know that. They will be quite honest with you)

And you're welcome.

 

[echostate]

Thanks, Stone-cold11 and Ellen.

Cool. So I just need to ask the vendor if the stone is eye-clean (but if they are always hoest, how can they sell S1/S2 stones that are NOT eye-clean?).

But this can only be done in a on-site store, and "purely on-line" shop like Bluenile cannot do the "eye-clean" check for me, right?

 

[Ellen]

Date: 5/15/2009 5:12:37 PM
Author: echostate
Thanks, Stone-cold11 and Ellen.

Cool. So I just need to ask the vendor if the stone is eye-clean (but if they are always hoest, how can they sell S1/S2 stones that are NOT eye-clean?).

But this can only be done in a on-site store, and ''purely on-line'' shop like Bluenile cannot do the ''eye-clean'' check for me, right?

They tell you they''re not. And they let you know what you will see, and at what distance.

No, BN can''t check. VS2 and up are safer with them.

 

[stone-cold11]

I think BN do check but not by themselves, they call up the jeweler holding the stone, so you can get a straight answer or not. So far, none of the checks from them seems to come back as not eye-clean and there are several cases of BN ''eye-clean'' not checking out to be so.

 

[Ellen]

^^ Right.