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Total confused noob from Australia

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J

johnmw1

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 30, 2006
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Hello,

As a total noob who is under extreme pressure to provide the ring which was always promised but never given.

It is such an important thing for my parntner to have, and on the occassions that I've been to the local retail stores to have a look at rings, I have come away confused and frustrated.

I must state from the start that I do not have a lot of money to play with, and the truth be known I will probably have to borrow for it anyways. But that is not to say that I don't want any thing but the best I can afford for my long under standing partner.

I live in Adelaide Australia, and we have the usual compliment of retail jewellery stores.
I have narrowed it down to two rings that I like from two different stores in my price bracket. One is a Rand diamond ring 18ct 2 toned 43pt I VS2 set in a half bezel if that is the correct terminology Aus$3995. And the other is an HOF 50-54pt GH VS/S1 also half bezel for Aus$4699.

I gotta say that from memory the HOF certainly had the sparkle to it and seemed a lot brighter than the other, but that is really hard to say because you cannot compare these side by side.
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Now of course both jewellers swear that theirs is the absolute best. With HOF they claim that because the stone is cut by hand blah blah blah, and likewise with the Rand stone they kept banging on about a Provenance Report and how much value this is worth to the ring.

Now I did come away from both shops feeling like they were trying to rip me off, and that when questioning them about why theirs is better than any other etc they just gave me their own version of why. Perhaps I'm being a bit hard on them and I do realize that they are only doing a job, but they did get very defensive obout things.

What really confuses me is coming to a forum like this to try and learn a little about my purchase. While I realize that HOF is only a brand name as is Rand, where do I truly look for purchasing my ring. There seems an overwhelming abundance of knowledge in this forum, and thats good, but where do I start. Should I give up on the local Rand or HOF purchase from here locally, because I'm sure I'm only paying for the name anyhow?

This is enough of my ramblings for the moment. I'm off to Melbourne in about three weeks time so am hoping there may be a better selection there. But I am very open to peoples input from here as well.

Many Thanks

John


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PS Sorry about any spelling typos, I could not find a spell check in this forum
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You've found 2 branded options with good reputations.

On line you have branded options, listed on the databases here, for a lot less. Just to provide a comparative example or two, using the qualities of G & VS2, using the search by cut db here, you can find .43 carats for less than $1K, and at .58 carats, less than $2K (based on wire & Pricescope pricing)

Good shopping!
 
Hi Regular Guy,

Thats probably where I come unstuck on this forum, I just don''t understand what I''m looking at, and whether it is good or not.

The two brands that I named, are they essentially one and the same just different names? I''m keen to learn but I find it very daunting.
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Thanks

John
 
I am not familiar with Rand, but HOF is an ideal cut, hearts and arrows diamond. If you use the search function above, you can search for ideal cut hearts and arrows diamonds. The problem with HOF is that you are paying a lot for the brand name. You can get a H&A diamond of equal beauty and quality for a lot less money. There is a jeweler on here is Australia and perhaps he can get a H&A stone for you for less money. You''d want a stone with a GIA Excellent or AGS Ideal certificate. The jeweler''s name is Garry Holloway and here is his website on the idealscope. You can find his contact information on the site. I''m betting he can find you an equal quality stone for a better price that those others.
 
Hello Diamondseeker2006,

Thanks for that info on Gary. Hopefully I will catch up with him sometime soon.

If I just had a budget of say $3000 for the diamond what could I expect to find for that sort of money? Say in .5 - .75 G H VS1 or so. I suppose it''s a pretty stupid question really because there are so many factors in selecting a diamond when it boils down to price. In my first post I was shown rings around the .5 or so. Is this too small in reality and should I be looking for something more in the .75 range? Decicions decisions.

I''ll tell you, I have been on line for a solid 8 hrs just going round and round in circles, and getting more and more confused with whats what. HELPPPPP

John
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Date: 10/2/2006 12:59:52 AM
Author: johnmw1
Hello Diamondseeker2006,

Thanks for that info on Gary. Hopefully I will catch up with him sometime soon.

If I just had a budget of say $3000 for the diamond what could I expect to find for that sort of money? Say in .5 - .75 G H VS1 or so. I suppose it's a pretty stupid question really because there are so many factors in selecting a diamond when it boils down to price. In my first post I was shown rings around the .5 or so. Is this too small in reality and should I be looking for something more in the .75 range? Decicions decisions.

I'll tell you, I have been on line for a solid 8 hrs just going round and round in circles, and getting more and more confused with whats what. HELPPPPP

John
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Hi John:
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Well don't feel alone and maybe the rest of the crew here will help provide anwers for you too.

The decision on size is totally a personal thing based on your income and budget.

I think it is perfectly practical for someone in your position based on your stated budget to get a 1/2 carat or bigger stone.

(1) I will tell you, you can save a hefty amount of money choosing the diamond yourself and getting a setting made. I think HOF are beautiful stones, but they are very very expensive. I also think an .43 I-Vs-2 in a setting for $3995 is high retail.
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(2) You can get a top of the line AGS-0, Hearts & Arrows diamond in the .6-.7 range for around $2000-$2500 BASED ON WHAT YOU ULTIMATELY DECIDE. i THINK IF YOU WERE TO STAY FOCUSED ON THE BEST CUT DIAMOND IN THE g/h COLOR RANGE, SI-1 CLARITY YOU ARE GOING TO GET THE MOST OUT OF YOUR MONEY.

IN STONES UNDER A CARAT AND ESPECIALLY CLOSER TO 1/2 CARAT, YOU ARE GOING TO BE VERY HARD PRESSED TO SEE THE INCLUSIONS, ESPECIALLY WITH SI-1.
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(3) I THINK IF YOU SHOP RIGHT YOU CAN GET A TOP NOTCH STONE IN THE .6-.7 CT. RANGE, G/H -SI1 AND HAVE $500-750 DOLLARS LEFT OVER FOR A SETTING AND STILL COME IN RIGHT AT $3000 / PLUS OR MINUS A LITTLE.

I have had good luck with Whiteflash and GoodOldGold purchasing diamonds.....
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Hi Josh

Thanks for the quick reply.

Thats what I was kinda hoping to hear from someone. As I said I have spent all day just reading and getting prices on diamonds through the search engines etc, and I get totally baffled with all the different descriptions of angles and dangles and all the other jargon that goes with it.

I ideally would like something in the .7 range in G or H with VS1?? or whatever, but just at this point in time I don''t know what I''m looking at. Perhaps some good people will show me what to look at or find a few examples for me.

Thanks

John
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Date: 10/2/2006 1:47:31 AM
Author: johnmw1
Hi Josh

Thanks for the quick reply.

Thats what I was kinda hoping to hear from someone. As I said I have spent all day just reading and getting prices on diamonds through the search engines etc, and I get totally baffled with all the different descriptions of angles and dangles and all the other jargon that goes with it.

I ideally would like something in the .7 range in G or H with VS1?? or whatever, but just at this point in time I don't know what I'm looking at. Perhaps some good people will show me what to look at or find a few examples for me.

Thanks

John
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Hi John there is a tool Bar on the top near the forum menu "Knowledge" When you move your cursor over this it will give you drop down selections. I would take some time to read the "What to Buy" section which has some of Garry H. practical comments on Color/Clarity, What to buy..etc... You will gain a lot more knowledge by reading first.

We can all show you what to look at or show you what we bought or make reccomendations on vendor's, but the real bottom line is if you don't educate yourself with some of the basic foundamentals..I could show ten beautiful diamonds in a row and you would know they were beautiful because I said so, but if you don't know any of the fundamentals or basics you still won't know why they are beautiful or why they sparkle more or if your really making a informed decision.

If you want a quick answer I would say call a vendor like Whitflash, GoodoldGold or Garry at Precious Metals and ask for the best cut Diamond in the G/H color range, s-1 clarity and have them qoute you prices based on their inventory and get help answering any other initial questions you might have. Whiteflash and GoodoldGold are great vendors with excellent reps and Garry is also a top notch "BLOKE" in your neck of the woods that will definitely be able to help you find a stellar stone.

From there they will be best suited to expedite your needs based on your budget. My most important reccomendations is convey you want the "Best" cut stone for your money.AGS-0 Hearts & Arrows diamonds are very nice, but there are some excellent diamonds and ideal makes outside the (Optical Precision) Hearts & Arrows range which dealers stock in their inventory. IMHO I would go with Hearts & Arrows though, because I am partial to the excellent light return on Optical precision.
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I know that 8* is also in Australia now - that is another branded option. I have to agree with the others about Gary. Gary at Precious Metals is in Australia and if I were you I would check with him for a non branded ideal cut that way you do not have to deal with customs issues and would get the best "bang for your buck". Gary is a leading researcher in diamond cut. I am not sure what his upgrade policies are, but that may also be something you want to consider - to me it is paramount. Another thing you may want to consider is that women here in Oz tend not to go for size but quality - I think you have that one figured out already though. Congratulations!
 
Hi Josh,

Sorry with the delay in answer but I''ve been to sleep.

Yes I agree I have a lot more learning to do, and I shall have to read up an awful lot more on the whole subject.

I have to kind of confess that I''m a little hesitant in contacting Garry as much as I would like to talk to him. He seems to be an extremely busy man, and I''m not sure that I would want to bother him with my silly questions about what must seem in the diamond world a rather insignificant little diamond. But hey thats all I can afford.

One thing which still confuses me with terminology is "Best cut" Super Ideal" "Ideal cut" etc, are these all the same cut just by different vendors or am I missing something?

Cheers

John
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Morning Beth,

I assume it''s morning for you anyway. Thanks for your reply. No I did not know 8* was available here, I shall have a look and see what gives, but I suppose that would just be another branded name with thier own huge mark ups.

That is a good question you have raised about sales taxes cause that is yet another part of the whole issue I would certainly have to consider in the whole price of the ring if i buy from OS. What is the sales tax rates for something like this?

Hey I like your avatar , from where did you get it?

Cheers

John
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Date: 10/2/2006 5:13:28 PM
Author: johnmw1

I have to kind of confess that I'm a little hesitant in contacting Garry as much as I would like to talk to him. He seems to be an extremely busy man, and I'm not sure that I would want to bother him with my silly questions about what must seem in the diamond world a rather insignificant little diamond. But hey thats all I can afford.

One thing which still confuses me with terminology is 'Best cut' Super Ideal' 'Ideal cut' etc, are these all the same cut just by different vendors or am I missing something?

Cheers

John
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John, if you're going to Melbourne in a few weeks that's where Garry hangs his hat. I assure you he enjoys this kind of conversation, just like the other pros and enthusiasts here do.

There are many different names for levels of cut quality. You will find that even the vendors here do not agree on terms & how to present them all of the time (this thread for example), but there are parameters we largely do agree on which make for beautiful diamonds. The pros and consumers here will gladly provide opinions and answers - you have but to ask. Never feel you are a bother...you're not.

Nice to have another from down under on the forum.
 
Hi John,

You have found what most consumer have discovered.....buying a diamond is no simple task. Especially with all the marketing fluff out there. I commend you on taking the first and most important step and actually doing some research before you purchase.

I would keep on the path you are on and continue to get as many opinions as possible. Don''t let any one diamond seller be the source of all your information. As you have already found, every dealer/retailer will tell you they have the ''best'' diamond. That is for you to decide. The best diamond for you is the one that meets your budget, fits into all your criteria and most importantly, the diamond you ''fall in love with.'' That is the ultimate test.

I suggest you continue to improve your understanding of each of the 4 C''s, figure aout exactly what your preferences are for each of these characteristics and use that as a starting point. From there, you can begin to adjust your requirements to suite your preferences and budget.

There is a mountain of advice, information and comment on this wonderful web. Use it to your advantage and get yourself the diamond that is right for you.
 
John from downunder...

Re:


Date: 10/2/2006 1:47:31 AM
Author: johnmw1

I ideally would like something in the .7 range in G or H with VS1?? or whatever, but just at this point in time I don''t know what I''m looking at. Perhaps some good people will show me what to look at or find a few examples for me.
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As reviewed here (and under my signature line), a) do talk with Garry...and also, b) check out the lists here, consider c) ordering something like this .7 H VS2, with 30 days return policy, and walking around with it to the places you''ve already spied options in contention, telling/warning them in advance that that''s exactly what you''d like to do. Make sure the option you walk in with is readily identified by you...it probably has an inscription you can check to help you verify. Compare...and then just pick your favorite. It should be a relatively fool proof method to select your favorite among your available options.
 
Date: 10/2/2006 5:34:49 PM
Author: johnmw1
Morning Beth,

I assume it's morning for you anyway. Thanks for your reply. No I did not know 8* was available here, I shall have a look and see what gives, but I suppose that would just be another branded name with thier own huge mark ups.

That is a good question you have raised about sales taxes cause that is yet another part of the whole issue I would certainly have to consider in the whole price of the ring if i buy from OS. What is the sales tax rates for something like this?

Hey I like your avatar , from where did you get it?

Cheers

John
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Hi John. I am in the Sydney time zone right now. I drew the avatar and a friend animated it. It is a view going from Atlanta to East Tn on 181. which is a road trip I did at least monthly for 4 years. It shows me the way home. It is pretty amatuer but I like it. The three stars are the Belt of Orion. The Mtns are Bays Mtn and Fodderstack. I suppose you can triangulate me now - some of the time anyway.

I corresponded with Garry for awhile and he is very patient and does not try to "sell" you but has more of an educational approach. He is also au fait with all the laws etc. Taxes are taxes and you will pay them but I was thinking of customs issues more in terms of seizures and levying of tax based on their assessment of value, and all the other hassles that can happen. It is a process that I just find frought with liability across international boundaries. I had a diamond sent over from Israel to Oz once and it was a real PIA to be honest. Luckily I can still use US vendors due to residing between the US and OZ - buying in the US while I am there, but your situation is a little different and I can certainly understand the frustration at the process.
 
Thankyou everyone for your replies.

Forgive me for such long periods between answers, but I guess its the time difference and the fact I''m also not getting to the pc as much as I would like.

I have how ever done a lot of reading and also different tutorials on the subject of the 4cs, and I find it such a complex (for me) subject. I must confess to probably not having the correct enviroment for trying to research a subject such as this. Its probably why I have chickened out on the subject before, and left my darling wondering.

So thanks again everyone for your encourgement, I shall endeavor to wade through more information, and do more searches in the data bases for that one off ring.

Cheers

John
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