today's college kids are way over confidence....

[Dancing Fire]

DF, the reason college kids think this... is because the educators LEAD us to believe this.

I was one if these students that was under the impression that employers would be beating down my recently graduated door, just because I had a degree. It's not because of my own confidence, it's what I was told.

However, if the colleges told students the truth, they wouldnt have anymore students. Everyone would go straight to working after high school... which incidently, isn't the worst idea, because all employers want these days is experience, for entry level positions.

One of the best options these days, if you are not worried about missing the college experience... is to find an entry level job at some company that will pay for your school, and then move onto a better job with 4 yrs of experience AND a degree under your belt. This is what 50% of the employess at my last job, and in my position, were doing. Yes, I did start out making more than them... but they were 2-4 years younger than me. Hell, my last 2 senior managers (apprx. $100k/yr) didn't even have college degrees.) Times are changing.

The saying is true... "It's not WHAT you know, it's WHO you know". And the longer you are in the work force, the more connections you can make.

yeah,sometime it makes you wonder,doesn't it??...go to college and get stuck with a 6 figure debt or hopefully find an entry level job right out of HS and work your way up the ladder.

 

[LGK]

I think part of this is a gender divide. I see in my friends and acquantances and recent hires, that the women are the really hard workers these days. They expect to have to have a career, and kids, and keep house all at the same time. And they do, especially the career. All of my girlfriends are very hard workers. And most end up doing most of the housework too.

The guys? Slackers, total slackers for the most part. One guy friend has either been fired or quit well over two dozen jobs in the two years since he moved here. His wife makes $100,000K plus a year, so he can do that. Get a job when he's sick of playing video games all day, work a couple days, declare his co-workers morons and not worth his wonderful self and quit. Again. He's a house husband basically, he makes sure she has dinner waiting when she gets home (usually after a 12 hour day) and cleans and so forth. And he's going to stay home with their daughter who's on the way.

That isn't too unusual in my experience, except for the part about him actually cooking and cleaning for his working wife. My sister put up with a deadbeat fiance for 12 years, who barely worked, took the occasional online class and collected unemployment, never cleaned, was a huge slob, and she'd come home after a long day of first at a full time job and then night classes, and find him playing video games. And the catbox over flowing, and no food in the house. And she'd have to clean and cook and all that, mostly.

Plus the two 18 year old boys we hired. Lord. Both were chronically late- on their first day both called hours after they were due in, and said "Oh. I slept in." No apology. And slept in past noon! On their first day. We fired the first one after a week, I was fed up after a day but DH was determined to torture himself with this kid. The second one, hired a few days ago, managed to shatter a passing car's window on his first day and lasted about 4 hours on the job.

There's exceptions. My husband is a really hard worker. But there's this huge slacker percentage of guys under 35 out there, and they drive me batty. And I'm sure there's girl slackers too. But when you see the same scenario over, and over, and over again it's hard to deny.

Frankly I don't know any guys who've graduated from college other than my husband. I know some who take classes online occasionally but degrees? Not many. Well, my stepbrother in law I guess. He graduated last year and is currently living my FIL's basement playing video games til sunup every day. Women, yes. I know lots of women with degrees. My sister has two batchelor degrees. But guys? Not many.

 

[elrohwen]

In response to DF's post, I don't think it's always possible to work your way up the ladder and end up at the same point.

For example, DH started at our company 4 years ago with a bachelors. He could have gone back for a PhD, but he was doing so well (has received the maximum raise every year) that we hoped he would catch up to the salary of a PhD new hire after 5 years - the period it would have taken for him to get the extra degree. Next year will be his 5th year and I don't think he'll be at the level or the salary of a new PhD hire, even though he does exactly the same job and does it better (he especially does it better than a new PhD hire, who would take at least a year or two to really get acclimated and learn how to do the job well). It's kind of a shame, since he would've been great in grad school. Maybe he'll catch up in the long run - we'll see.

I'm currently at the same company, and making even less since I just transferred in from another industry that typically pays less (and obviously I'm at a lower level than him). I don't really care though, since I have no desire to get a PhD, so I'm willing to accept the salary cut that comes with that.

So I still think that going for the degree is usually better than getting experience early, because if you can start up higher on the salary ladder (and ultimately go higher up that ladder) you'll go further in the long run. Of course, it depends on the industry, but I think the situation I described could be applied to many industries - just change the names of the degrees involved.

 

[calibali]

I totally agree with you LGK. While me and my bf graduated from a top college 5 years ago and have worked hard to be successful, my bf's younger brother is a prime example of an unappreciative slacker.

He graduated from the second most expensive college in the US a few months ago (all parental funded) and did not start any kind of job search until 1 month before graduation. He figured someone in the family would hook him up with a cushy job and when that didn't happen, he took a 6 week internship designed for current college students. Now that that has ended, he is now working on a farm saying that he is going to write a novel in his spare time. So his parents spent more than 175k so he could basically pick beans and refuse to get a real job.

I know the economy is making it tough for recent college grads, but the there is a real lack of effort/caring among the ones I've seen. Probably too much entitlement in these parts...

 

[Shoopy]

The financial industry is not set up for you to receive a $70k starting salary as an entry-level analyst. Yes, there are some that make that much starting off but this is based on years of working experience throughout college combined with a degree. And I'm not speaking for states where I don't have any background. In Florida, it will be hard to find a company that will offer an analyst any more than $50k straight out of college.

I remember during my last semesters, I was encouraged to ask for $60k. I had 5 companies laugh at me. Literally laugh into the phone and one told me that whoever is making the statement that is how much we should ask for, should be fired.

I'm also in the Finance field and saw a lot of glamour thrown into finance and accounting. They make it look sexy. When you get thrown into the actual work, it IS a shocker.

I took on a different approach than some of my peers. I volunteered, yes worked FOR FREE, for a government financial agency. I sent in a letter explaining that I understood they weren't accepting undergrad interns, I just wanted to get some experience, and wanted to volunteer my time. I did that for the summer after my sophomore year. By fall I was offered employment as a specialist. I did not expect this but glady accepted. By the time I graduated, I *could* ask for $50k+ because I had 2 years worth of professional experience. My brother and his friends all have one summer's worth of internships. One. And they all want to start with high salaries. Not going to happen.

It can be...what's the word? Maybe, depressing...to graduate from busting your bum in a 4 year university only to learn that your high hopes of making $$ won't be acheived for a few more years. But I always tell my brother to not think about the money as an entry level. We ALL have to "pay our dues" in the beginning. You have to sweat, work long hours, take crap from the Sr Analyst who takes it from the Manager who takes it from the Director so on and so forth. Eventually, once you have enough experience you can think about where you can make the most money. But in the beginning, you are setting yourself up for a lot of disappointment and headaches if you are focused on the paycheck.

 

[LGK]

The financial industry is not set up for you to receive a $70k starting salary as an entry-level analyst. Yes, there are some that make that much starting off but this is based on years of working experience throughout college combined with a degree. And I'm not speaking for states where I don't have any background. In Florida, it will be hard to find a company that will offer an analyst any more than $50k straight out of college.

I remember during my last semesters, I was encouraged to ask for $60k. I had 5 companies laugh at me. Literally laugh into the phone and one told me that whoever is making the statement that is how much we should ask for, should be fired.

I'm also in the Finance field and saw a lot of glamour thrown into finance and accounting. They make it look sexy. When you get thrown into the actual work, it IS a shocker.

I took on a different approach than some of my peers. I volunteered, yes worked FOR FREE, for a government financial agency. I sent in a letter explaining that I understood they weren't accepting undergrad interns, I just wanted to get some experience, and wanted to volunteer my time. I did that for the summer after my sophomore year. By fall I was offered employment as a specialist. I did not expect this but glady accepted. By the time I graduated, I *could* ask for $50k+ because I had 2 years worth of professional experience. My brother and his friends all have one summer's worth of internships. One. And they all want to start with high salaries. Not going to happen.

It can be...what's the word? Maybe, depressing...to graduate from busting your bum in a 4 year university only to learn that your high hopes of making $$ won't be acheived for a few more years. But I always tell my brother to not think about the money as an entry level. We ALL have to "pay our dues" in the beginning. You have to sweat, work long hours, take crap from the Sr Analyst who takes it from the Manager who takes it from the Director so on and so forth. Eventually, once you have enough experience you can think about where you can make the most money. But in the beginning, you are setting yourself up for a lot of disappointment and headaches if you are focused on the paycheck.

I did the exact same thing, my sophomore year, in a much less... um, serious field though. But it worked out the same way. I worked as a volunteer at the Seattle Opera House doing makeup, and they offered me a job at the end of the volunteer period, and I worked part time there throughout college (the timing was perfect- usually the performances were at night or Sat matinees, so it worked with a college schedule beautifully). Then when I graduated they wanted to hire me full time, but I had already gotten a f/t job and turned it down. I loved doing makeup at the Opera and sometimes I wish I'd take the job there, it was a lot of fun, paid pretty good, and you got comped tickets too. Volunteering is a really excellent way to get a foot in the door IMO.

 

[ChloeTheGreat]

I don't know anyone that expected that. I graduated with my Bachelor of Business Administration in December 2009 and STILL haven't found a job. The people I do know that were able to get job offers upon graduation are probably making in the $40,000 salary range. That is typical for a business degree in my location.

 

[that_someone_special]

When I first started college, I was told "whoa! here is the list of incomes that our graduates make! and only 1% don't have jobs..and and and.." Seriously it went on like this for 4 years!!! When I graduated (and my friends graduated) we were standing out in the cold, naked, and the only offers we got, if any, were for a hat, or a thin jacket.

But really... Again, my degree was $69k. At 18 I was like, HA! is that it? If I'm going to be making that in a year in my new job then why should I care?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA haaaaa hahaha.