To buy or not to buy....

[bubblelights]

Argh! This diamond buying process has me feeling like a dog chasing its tail sometimes.

Went to the SF jewelrymart/gift center today in search of diamonds that might compare to some of the ones I was finding at online vendors. I thought I was wanting a warmer (J?) stone, in the just under 1 carat range, eye-clean, round, ideal cut, certified.

After seeing some of the Js and even Is in the setting I fell in love with (platinum, halo, micro pave w/approx 1 ct (tw) of beadwork), I realized I was way off in what I wanted. We looked at the setting with a .70 G, SI1, very eye clean, and fell in love.

Now - here''s the glitch. It''s GIA, so no measurements of crown angle or pavilion angle. I know it''s NOT ideal simply from measurements - depth is 61.7, table is 58. Measurements of the stone, if they make ANY difference, are 5.70 X 5.77 X 3.54. Polish and symmetry were very good/very good. Vendor wants $2186 for the stone, which I know is way out of any ideal range, so I assume it''s much less than an ideal cut, which terrifies me that I''m making a bad decision. (And yes, I do this with any big purchase, just so you know. I can be a little neurotic!)

So, you ask, did I love the way the stone set in the ring? Yes! Was it sparkly and beautiful? Yes! But - did I fall for the trick of fancy lighting? Perhaps!

The stone and ring are on hold for us. The dealer was a straight shooter from what I could tell, and I liked him a lot.

So - my question to the OH SO WISE pricescopers - what questions should I ask before buying the stone? I know I want to make sure of Polish and Symmetry, because I''m only 90% sure that it was VG/VG - I thought I wrote it down but I think I was blinded by the light, so to speak, and a little distracted. It does have a GIA report, I know that much. He pointed out the SI to us, both with the loupe (I couldn''t see it even with the loupe) and with a microscope (could see it there, but it''s near the edge, doesn''t worry me at all.) What else do I want to ask this guy before I give him the $$?

This is the first diamond we''ve bought loose, and the first time we''ve done it armed with any knowledge (the earrings came from Tiffany, talk about "blinded by the light...")

Help?!

Thanks!!!

Oh, and with the setting that we love so much now, our budget for a stone is only about $2350, so don''t go suggesting a H + A, E color, VVS2 or anything! I don''t want to go smaller than .7 unless it''s negligible - I''d be happy with .69 or .68...

 

[monarch64]

Bubblelights, I''m by no means an expert. My husband bought my stone (1.5 RB, J, Si1) long before I found PS. It''s GIA certed, but not ideal or H&A. I really love my stone! It''s graded as far as polish, symetry, and cut, good, good, and very good. I know my husband was going for the biggest stone he could afford at the time, and wasn''t totally educated as some consumers who visit PS before buying are.

A few years from now (maybe for our 10th anniversary,) he may approach me about an upgrade, at which point I will be able to school him on the many other aspects of diamond buying he was overlooking, and we will get an ideal cut stone, but for now, I am supremely happy.

All I''m saying is if you prefer size over the other C''s for your budget, go with the stone you''ve fallen in love with.

Experts, please forgive my amateur opinion! It''s just an opinion, after all!

 

[Small]

If it was me...I''d just get all the info from the cert and then come here and do some comparisons for the money.

I did find a stone at DCD that was money and cert comparable. Probably looks similar to the one you are buying. DCD had alot in their ideal and a few in their signature in the size and price range you are looking at.

http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=9683395

If this diamond speaks to you and it''s in your price range then go for it. I did a cut quality search and there were a few diamonds in your parameters that met with cost and some about 500 above.
Good luck. Let us know what you decide

 

[bubblelights]

small, the thing is, I do have *almost* all the info from the cert, and I''m never going to get crown and pavilion angles because GIA doesn''t provide them - only AGS and a Sarin, from what I understand (someone correct me if I''m wrong.)

I''m also concerned because I haven''t found a comparable setting ANYWHERE and I just love this one and I don''t want to make the vendor I saw angry because I''m not buying his diamond, you know?

I did run a search on WF, DCD, and some others, and found a couple of ideal or very very very close to ideal, scoring well on HCA, diamonds in the $1995 - 2500 price range, so I''m going to talk with him tomorrow and see if he can find an ideal in that general range...though I also am worried about buying a diamond off the internet without seeing it, especially an SI1 or lower.




And Monarch 64, thanks for putting it in perspective for me. In the grand scheme of things, I am going to love the ring, I know that, and yes, we can upgrade for our 25th or 50th anniversary!

I''ll be back tomorrow to let you know what we decide...and of course, if anyone else sees a big red flag to NOT get the stone I saw today, please please please chime in!

 

[Jelly]

Don''t be pressured into buying something. You''ll regret it.

You''ve probably already seen them...but here is an option. It''s AGS certified which I have more confidence in over GIA.

https://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-1948461.htm

Item Code: AGS-6633708
Price: $2,268.00
Report: AGS
Shape: A Cut Above H&A
Carat: 0.728
Color: J
Clarity: VS2
Depth: 61.1
Table: 55.8
Crown Angle: 34.7
Crown %: 15.4
Pavilion Angle: 40.8
Pavilion %: 42.9
Girdle: Thin to Medium Faceted
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Culet: Pointed
Fluorescence: Negligible
Measurements: 5.80-5.83X3.55

 

[Jelly]

Yum Yum Yum!

https://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-1879179.htm

Item Code: AGS-6544304
Price: $2,275.00
Report: AGS
Shape: Round Ideal Cut
Carat: 0.790
Color: I
Clarity: SI2
Depth: 61.3
Table: 55
Crown Angle: 34.8
Crown %: 15.5
Pavilion Angle: 40.7
Pavilion %: 42.9
Girdle: Thin-Sly Thick Faceted
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Culet: Pointed
Fluorescence: Negligible
Measurements: 5.96-5.98X3.66

 

[Small]

I can understand your concerns totally. But most of the vendors have a return policy of so many days so I guess it''s a matter of finding someone you trust and a good return policy.
I''m buying my .92 RB ideal infinity cut from Winfields...unseen! I''ve seen all the pictures, the IS, the AGS report, and have talked to Wink on it. He was honest about the inclusion (it''s an SI2 inclusion on the outside which will be pronged) upfront. I would have requested to see it had he told me the inclusion was black but it was a white inclusion he had to loupe to find. After going to local stores and looking at the ideals in person I was totally sold.

You really can''t concern yourself with making someone mad because in the end you are the one spending the money and don''t want to make a mistake and wonder if you could have gotten a better stone for a better price. Maybe you could have that setting made custom??? Just a suggestion if you can find a better diamond elsewhere. It was my experience when out looking at ideals that the markup was upwards of 1k or more than what you can find online. Just contact a few of the vendors here and tell them what you are looking for and work with the guy you have been working with and see what happens. It can only help you to look at all your options.

GIA doesn''t give you all the info needed for the HCA so I guess you can just get as much info as possible and search the other GIA stones in the vendors inventory to see if the prices are comparable. That''s how you''ll know if you are getting a good deal or not. Good luck! It''s exhausting and frustrating at times but so worth it when you find what you''ve been searching for! Keep us updated

 

[Jelly]

This is a K colored stone...I have a sweet spot in my heart for K''s because I own one from WF''s Expert Selection similar to this one.

https://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-1990452.htm

Price: $2,050.00
Report: AGS
Shape: Round Ideal Cut
Carat: 0.780
Color: K
Clarity: VS1
Depth: 60.4
Table: 55.8
Crown Angle: 34.7
Crown %: 15.7
Pavilion Angle: 40.6
Pavilion %: 42.8
Girdle: Thin to Medium
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Culet: Pointed
Fluorescence: Negligible
Measurements: 6.00-6.02X3.63

 

[Small]

http://www.winkjones.com/specials/diamonds.php

There are some GIA stones in the same price range that are ideal on Winks site that are comparable price wise to what you are looking at. I would give those a look and see if they compare and possibly call him to ask him about them. He''s a super nice guy and will be upfront about his stones.
Also Jelly has given you some nice alternatives from WF. Talk to them and see what they have to offer in your price range. It''s worth a shot to give a few vendors a moment to see if they have anything for you that may be better than what you are seeing from your current jeweler and then like you said have him bring in some ideals for you to look at and see what the cost is. I totally think it would be worth it for you to see the ideals and the others together. It really made my decision on my stone that much easier. The ideals are awesome!!!!! If you can get one for the money, I don''t think you''ll be disappointed.

 

[jaz464]

If you choose an online vendor, you do not have to go sight unseen. They (the best vendors) will send the diamond to an independent appraiser in your area so that you can decide if you would like to purchase it.

 

[jetmal]

have you taken a look on on the vendor site here to see if you can find a setting similair to the one you like??? You may be pleasantly surprised to find it , or one like it......at a lower price even!

don''t worry about offending the jeweler if you only buy the setting from him......its still a sale for him.....he should be happy with whatever you decide to purchase from him.....if he is not, then I wouldnt spend any money there at all!

 

[bubblelights]

Thanks for all this help!

I guess the question is, does one always have to buy AGS, Ideal, beautiful according to HCA diamonds? I guess maybe I didn''t make it clear that I thought this was a gorgeous stone, and the jeweler was very forthcoming in explaining that it wasn''t ideal, but very darn close.

In response to the many stones you''ve all posted here, thank you (!!!!) Unfortunately, there''s so much micropave and platinum in this setting, it''s not going to work with a J, definitely not a K, perhaps not even an I. The pave is very clear - D/E, so the warmer stones really looked yellow in the setting (we tried a bunch).

I''ve SCOURED the online vendors for settings, trust me. Nothing I''ve seen even comes close to this one. It''s not a standard micro pave, halo, bezel setting. There is some interesting work on the sides, and the band follows an interesting line as well. The line between the stone and the micro pave halo is finely mille grained, as are the areas on the shank and the outer ring of the halo.

But - back to stones. I know I''m sounding like a pain the butt, refuting all the great suggestions I''ve gotten on here.

Some of the "ideal" cuts I find online don''t have crown and pavilion angles either - so how can I be sure about those without them being H&A or ACA?

I don''t feel ANY pressure from the vendor I saw yesterday, that''s for sure. He was really good at showing us SEVERAL stones, going through his stock book and letting us know what he had, and working with our budget - e.g. "I have an .7, F, SI2, ideal cut; I have a .73 G, VS1, not ideal cut; I have a .69 E, SI2, ideal cut;" etc. He even compared several of the stones with us, and pointed out why he''d recommend one over another - not always even going with the most expensive stone. When we couldn''t see the inclusion w/the microscope, he walked us through how to find it, and pointed it out to us very clearly. Like I said, he seemed very straight. We even had to tell him that we wanted the ring and the stone - there was no pushy sales pitch, at all. This is all after seeing five or so other vendors yesterday, so we did at least know what we DIDN''T want - like the guy who tried to show me the NASTIEST I2 and tell me it was a VS1, but uncertified. I took one look at that stone and almost threw it at him I was so offended.

So again, my question is, is there ever a time to buy a non-ideal diamond without a SARIN or AGS? What are the red flags of the stone I listed - or is there just not enough information?

Here''s what I know, to recap:
GIA
.70 ct
SI1
61.7% depth
58% table
I''m double checking polish and symmetry, but I think they were VG/VG.
measurements: 5.70 X 5.77 X 3.54

Thanks again!

 

[Shay37]

I don''t see any red flags from the info you listed. You kind of answered your own question if you will allow me to be blunt. Numbers are that. Diamond beauty is something else. You have seen the stone. You said it is eyeclean. You said it is GORGEOUS!!!! The price seems decent, and it faces up mm wise about where it should. What can we tell you that you don''t already know?

shay

 

[Jelly]

I agree with Shay. It sounds like you''ve made up your mind. I''d go for it...there''s something to be said about a piece of jewelry that "speaks" to you. Go for it!

 

[bubblelights]

Yeah, you know, I said to my BF (do I call him fiance yet?

"They say when you get the right one, you''re going to know..." referring to the combo I tried on yesterday...

Shay - my one question is when you said it faces up about where it''s supposed to...can you tell me any more about that? Can I actually get some info from the measurements?

THANKS AGAIN! I promise to come back and post pics when we finally decide!

 

[belle]

Date: 3/7/2006 10:50:02 AM
Author: bubblelights
Thanks for all this help!

I guess the question is, does one always have to buy AGS, Ideal, beautiful according to HCA diamonds? I guess maybe I didn't make it clear that I thought this was a gorgeous stone, and the jeweler was very forthcoming in explaining that it wasn't ideal, but very darn close.

In response to the many stones you've all posted here, thank you (!!!!) Unfortunately, there's so much micropave and platinum in this setting, it's not going to work with a J, definitely not a K, perhaps not even an I. The pave is very clear - D/E, so the warmer stones really looked yellow in the setting (we tried a bunch).

perceived color is one place you will notice a difference between 'ideal' and 'very darn close'. a well cut stone (ideal) of lower color will face up very white in most every lighting condition. poorly cut stones, even ones that are sometimes described as 'ideal' by some jewelers, will more readily show body color. a mediocre cut 'j' color stone will be visibly yellow, even face up, where as a well cut stone of the same color will seem much whiter.
with a well cut stone wherein all of the angles and proportions are complimentary to each other, light entering the diamond is reflected effeciently within the diamond and more directly back to your eyes. with such efficient light return, your eyes do not percieve the inherent body color, only bright light return.
a well cut stone will not look yellow. even at the i/j/k level.

Date: 3/7/2006 10:50:02 AM
Author: bubblelights
Thanks for all this help!

I don't feel ANY pressure from the vendor I saw yesterday, that's for sure. He was really good at showing us SEVERAL stones, going through his stock book and letting us know what he had, and working with our budget - e.g. 'I have an .7, F, SI2, ideal cut; I have a .73 G, VS1, not ideal cut; I have a .69 E, SI2, ideal cut;' etc. He even compared several of the stones with us, and pointed out why he'd recommend one over another - not always even going with the most expensive stone. When we couldn't see the inclusion w/the microscope, he walked us through how to find it, and pointed it out to us very clearly. Like I said, he seemed very straight. We even had to tell him that we wanted the ring and the stone - there was no pushy sales pitch, at all. This is all after seeing five or so other vendors yesterday, so we did at least know what we DIDN'T want - like the guy who tried to show me the NASTIEST I2 and tell me it was a VS1, but uncertified. I took one look at that stone and almost threw it at him I was so offended.

So again, my question is, is there ever a time to buy a non-ideal diamond without a SARIN or AGS? What are the red flags of the stone I listed - or is there just not enough information?

Here's what I know, to recap:
GIA
.70 ct
SI1
61.7% depth
58% table
I'm double checking polish and symmetry, but I think they were VG/VG.
measurements: 5.70 X 5.77 X 3.54

Thanks again!

ideal is just a word. unless you know exactly how the vendor is using it, you don't know what kind of stones you are looking at.
there is no way one can know the cut quality of a stone without more information than depth and table percentages.

that said, if you love the diamond, don't let the numbers stand in your way.

 

[Shay37]

Date: 3/7/2006 11:17:59 AM
Author: bubblelights
Yeah, you know, I said to my BF (do I call him fiance yet?

''They say when you get the right one, you''re going to know...'' referring to the combo I tried on yesterday...

Shay - my one question is when you said it faces up about where it''s supposed to...can you tell me any more about that? Can I actually get some info from the measurements?

THANKS AGAIN! I promise to come back and post pics when we finally decide!

I just looked up the mm range for .7 ish ct. diamonds that are premium to ideal cuts. They ranged from around 5.69mm to 5.78 ish mm. That tells you that the stone is not cut too deep. It cannot give you detail about minor facets and angles, but it lets you know that the cutter did not cut this stone to hide weight. You''re paying for weight, but mm is what you see from the top. You said it''s sparkly and gorgeous, the cutter probably did a nice job on this. Is it a superideal? I don''t know, and you don''t care, right?

shay