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Time to buy - 3 Stone, Round Brilliant in White Gold 6 Claw

C

catalyst

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Messages
17
Hello to all,

I realise my join date is recent and next to no posts, but all the information stored here has been so valuable in my fiance's and my search for her perfect engagement ring.

We are now ready to buy, if we can find the right setting and diamonds online.

Here is a picture from the top of the ring she loves.
http://tinypic.com/r/t0kpja/5

Sorry I didn't get one from the sides as well. It seems the places pricescope recommends (James Allen, Brian Gavin, Whiteflash and ID Jewellery) don't have many settings like this.

Our budget is around $6000 to a bit over, and thought we might be able to stretch to around a 70point centre with 30point side stones.

If anyone can provide any assistance, initially with finding the setting we like, and then the daunting task of actually choosing diamonds it would be very much appreciated.

On the setting front, simple is really what she likes. She'd like it to have an underrail so the wedding band would sit close to flush. Also the shoulder coming up about half way onto the side stones, and a softer collet, not very intricate.

I felt with diamonds, we might be able to achieve F-H colour and VS2-SI1 clarity, but definately sticking with excellent cut grade.

Once again thank you so much in advance, it was nice to walk into jewellery stores and be able to have at least a limited grasp on what was being said to us, look forward to any more tips, advice and especially rings anyone can provide.
 
 
Re: Time to buy - 3 Stone, Round Brilliant in White Gold 6 C

another idea is you could call mark at ERD

Diamonds:
http://www.engagementringsdirect.com/0.33-carat-i-vvs1-hearts-and-arrows-round-cut-diamond-gid-75491.html

http://www.engagementringsdirect.com/0.33-carat-i-vs1-hearts-and-arrows-round-cut-diamond-gid-62325.html

http://www.engagementringsdirect.com/0.76-carat-i-vs2-hearts-and-arrows-round-cut-diamond-gid-62066.html

He might be able to do the setting with the 1665 that is left over, I have no idea really but it might be worth a shot:)
 
Re: Time to buy - 3 Stone, Round Brilliant in White Gold 6 C

catalyst: The WF "Butterflies" setting that Farmergal posted is gorgeous!! It's three-stone, has the six prongs that your GF likes, and the profile is very fluid and swoopy (for lack of a better word). Definitely look into that setting! The center stone choices are great as well. I think Farmergal definitely steered you in the right direction!
 
Re: Time to buy - 3 Stone, Round Brilliant in White Gold 6 C

I think that WF setting is gorgeous! You have the 6 prongs on the larger stone and three on the side stones which I think is better on the small stones. Six prongs would be too much on .30 stones, to me, because you would see sooo much metal if you put 6 prongs on all three stones.

However, I wouldn't do a 4.4 and a 4.5 side stone pair. Might have to search through the diamonds a little more, but FG got you off to a great start! I'll try to help look through the stones, too.
 
Re: Time to buy - 3 Stone, Round Brilliant in White Gold 6 C

H center stone options:

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2728106.htm ($3302, .723 ACA)

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2777286.htm ($3599, .718 ACA)

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2763664.htm ($3803, .774 ACA)

H side stones (choose any two out of these three...diameters are matched):

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2752106.htm ($620, .331)

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2752114.htm ($616, .328)

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2673906.htm ($572, .331)

It looks like that setting may start at a 1 ct. center stone and take .25 each sides, so you may have to start over with the setting. I imagine WF can get a three stone setting with 6 prongs for you, since that would be something most ring catalogs would have. I'd also ask her if she would consider a setting like this, because it is really pretty and won't overwhelm smaller stones.

http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/three-stone/3-stone-diamond-engagement-ring-633.htm
 
Re: Time to buy - 3 Stone, Round Brilliant in White Gold 6 C

LOVE the WF butterflies setting!!! That gets my vote if it works with the stone sizes you are looking for.
 
Re: Time to buy - 3 Stone, Round Brilliant in White Gold 6 C

Woah guys, less than a day and you add so much. Thanks.

We had looked through Whiteflash and a few others and found that the only 6 claw 3 stone that was the "Butterflies" from WF.

Its not exactly what she likes, and we didn't think the 6 claw on the 30points we had seen covered them too much. One of the main reasons she likes it is how much it rounds the diamonds over a 4 claw, which can to us square them off a bit.

I think the Butterflies design does allow side stones over 25points, but i think you are correct on the 1carat minimum for the center stone.

Another thought I had overnight is to buy the diamonds online and get a price from the jeweller where she liked the setting to do just that part. Is this something people do commonly. Diamonds are something that I can get alot of info off the internet through pictures and help from the people here, while a setting is something that really should be seen on.

Thanks again for the help so far guys, I can see all the help here being the perfect way to help make the right decision and get her the perfect ring. :)
 
Re: Time to buy - 3 Stone, Round Brilliant in White Gold 6 C

OK guys, back with more questions after a few days more searching.

We have been in negotiations/discussion with the jeweller where we found the setting we like.

At the moment the pricing is for a 0.7carat RB centre, G SI1 Ex/Ex/Ex, with 0.3carat sides. These stones on WF/JA come out to around the $4100 mark. Taking into account exchange rate/GST/shipping etc this is around $4400.

This leaves $2100 budget for the setting (and what the local jeweller is working on). Similar (but not exactly perfect) settings are available from WF/JA for around the $1500 mark (white gold). I see the $600 difference as probably not too bad for the exact setting, a local service with a person to talk to, and the ongoing cleaning etc.

However the thing at the moment worrying me is he is saying the 0.3carat side stones do not have GIA certificates. Now I have not seen any of the stones yet as the centre is still being got in from elsewhere, but at a 0.3 size is it as important to the the GIA grading?

His explanation is that at that size, he buys a bag of diamonds and will pick out the ones. I think I have a fair grasp with all the information I have learnt from here, at least more than most other one time buyers, but is this something I should be saying no to straight away.

I did ask whether I could buy the diamonds and have them set, however they don't offer this as a service. I also have found another jeweller that I think would do this for around the $2100 mark. I then have however introduced the very slight change of not liking the diamonds we purchase online. Once again thanks in advance.
 
Re: Time to buy - 3 Stone, Round Brilliant in White Gold 6 C

Sorry for the 3rd post in a row guys, but would love some feedback on the one thing worrying us. We are lined up to go in and see all 3 diamonds in 2 days time. However the 0.32carat side stones have no certificates from any grading lab. Do most stones of this size from jewellery stores have them. I can't really compare to all the ones online as obviously no one would buy a diamond they couldn't see without one.

We are going to be able to compare the side stones to the centre 0.7 carat G SI1 Ex/Ex/Ex and to me this is going to be the only way to tell if we are happy. Colour I should be able to pick at least between a G and an I, so if we actually get H side stones, the price difference we be minimal. The same with inclusions, so as long as eye clean. Weight and table size can be done with a set of scales and a micrometer. For cut quality, is it just a matter of seeing if it sparkles as much as the centre stone.

Any guidance would be great guys, has been great fun and really like that I including my fiance in choosing the ring, but so much to learn as well.
 
Re: Time to buy - 3 Stone, Round Brilliant in White Gold 6 C

I personally don't have a problem with uncertified side stones at .30, but I'd probably recommend having an idealscope to make sure you see symmetrical arrows to verify that they are excellent cut.

Just one comment about the setting picture you posted. Those prong tips were not done well at all. They were little balls and there are so many more attractive ways to have the tips done. I hope you'll look at a lot of magnified rings here and see what well done prongs look like in order to show your jeweler. Here's an example where the prongs are less obtrusive and have a subtle little point to them like a little claw.

https://www.pricescope.com/blog/jewel-week-three-stone-ring
 
Re: Time to buy - 3 Stone, Round Brilliant in White Gold 6 C

Thanks diamondseeker2006, i will definately look at an idealscope (assuming this is the same as what they try and sell as a hearts and arrows viewer. Not sure whether there is any other ways to view, obviously through a x10 loupe also.

Also cheers for the tip on the claws. The photo I posted isn't actually of the exact setting, as that store wouldn't let us take a photo. Its from a place close by that had a similar but not perfect ring. I will show my fiance the photo you provided as well so we have a idea whether it is well made. The settings they provide are hand made, which they try and sell to you are better than cast (actually true)?
 
Re: Time to buy - 3 Stone, Round Brilliant in White Gold 6 C

catalyst|1333484480|3162690 said:
Thanks diamondseeker2006, i will definately look at an idealscope (assuming this is the same as what they try and sell as a hearts and arrows viewer. Not sure whether there is any other ways to view, obviously through a x10 loupe also.

Also cheers for the tip on the claws. The photo I posted isn't actually of the exact setting, as that store wouldn't let us take a photo. Its from a place close by that had a similar but not perfect ring. I will show my fiance the photo you provided as well so we have a idea whether it is well made. The settings they provide are hand made, which they try and sell to you are better than cast (actually true)?
Click to expand...


If you are buying from someone who specializes in handmade goods :cheeky:

Many of us on here have dabbled in both... I've been happy and unhappy with both. Take-home message: the *best* way to get a high-quality piece depends on the design you want, the metal(s) you want, the skill of the bench, the comfort of the bench with one method of manufacture over another, and your budget. There IS no best for all designs for all budgets for all benches... and a well-made piece is a well-made piece however it's manufactured, and will serve you well for years and years. Handforging (by the really good outfits) usually costs more. Some designs - the as-little-visible-metal-as-possible micropave-encrusted sort - benefit from high-quality handforging. For other designs - curvy or metal-heavy types - they may advise that casting is the way to go.


An idealscope is quite different from a H&A viewer - IS for light return, H&Ascope to see hearts and arrows patterns.
http://www.ideal-scope.com/
 
Re: Time to buy - 3 Stone, Round Brilliant in White Gold 6 C

So an idealscope and an ASET are very close to similiar, or at least show the same information in different ways. Is this likely a tool that the jeweller will have available for me to view through?

Yssie, what do you think about 30point side stones not having certificates. I realise that certificates on diamonds that are around the $700 would add a large percentage to their cost.
 
Re: Time to buy - 3 Stone, Round Brilliant in White Gold 6 C

catalyst|1333489877|3162769 said:
So an idealscope and an ASET are very close to similiar, or at least show the same information in different ways. Is this likely a tool that the jeweller will have available for me to view through?
Probably not. You can buy your own through that site though, if you want, I think it's $30ish?

Yssie, what do you think about 30point side stones not having certificates. I realise that certificates on diamonds that are around the $700 would add a large percentage to their cost.
Ditto DS - I wouldn't worry about it. It's not cost-effective to cert stones this size, so it's pretty normal to get them uncerted
Click to expand...
 
Re: Time to buy - 3 Stone, Round Brilliant in White Gold 6 C

Alright an update after our trip in.

The centre stone is perfect, tiny wispy inclusions, 2 that I could see under a loupe and none with my eye. G colour and had a nice warmth about it.

He had picked out 2 very well matched in carat and diameter side stones for us. However after about 20 minutes of looking at them and a discussion with him and my fiancée we decided to see if he could find a better match.

We actually rejected the higher grade stone. Obviously they were uncertified as stated and originally to people who had done no research they might have been fine. However one of the stones actually looked a higher colour grade, and definitely had a different cut and pavilion/crown angle when compared to both the other side stone and the centre. (Not sure which of these cuts/angles is actually closer to what is considered excellent, however the one that sparkled more (and the right colour) is the one we are going to keep.)

The side stone we are actually asking him to try and match to has a small black inclusion centrally that we could see initially under x10, but definitely not with the naked eye. Upon looking later I had trouble finding it even with a loupe, so not too worried about that.

He did a good job of alleviating our fears/answering questions. The only alloy in their 18k white gold is palladium, which was worrying my fiancée after a few friends have had their white gold rings go gold, obviously from having nickel.

He didn't have an idealscope/aset guys, but I am as happy as I can be with my level of experience with the 2 stones so far.

The photo in the opening post is also actually from a different store to where we are purchasing, so didn't quite show the exact claw look. They are however the little balls (although better formed) rather than the claw/talon look. We talked it over and had a look at talons in person and along with it covering slightly more of the diamonds, she likes the balls more.
But thank you so much for the discussion ideas for customisation. We went over heights/angles, changes in band design plus so much more.

Will be heading back in about a week and will post another update then. Once again thanks for all the help, always looking for more.
 
Re: Time to buy - 3 Stone, Round Brilliant in White Gold 6 C

Deposit paid and now the wait begins. The replacement side stone the jeweller had found was fantastic. Actually GIA certified as an F colour, Ex/Ex/Vg 0.33Carat SI1, but matches the other side stone and centre stone perfectly (which is a G). Much more sparkle and fire to it. I once again forgot to grab the GIA numbers to check the specs online.

The 2 side stones have diameters of 4.41 and 4.45mm (.33 carat each) with the 70 point centre we have picked. Can't wait for it, just as excited as my fiancée is. Will post some photos when its ready.
 
Re: Time to buy - 3 Stone, Round Brilliant in White Gold 6 C

Yippee, how exciting!! My e-ring is a 3 stone with 6 claws on each stone, so I am naturally very partial to that style :bigsmile: I can't wait for pics of your finished ring!!!!!
 
Re: Time to buy - 3 Stone, Round Brilliant in White Gold 6 C

Ok guys, got GIA numbers as well. Ring is paid for so no changing minds on diamonds. Chucked them into HCA (4.0 on the centre and 2.7 on the side) and not great, but to me in person they are about the most sparkly diamonds I saw in all the stores we went to. Of course the jeweller didn't have ASETS or an idealscope so had to go with my gut.

Centre Stone
ROUND BRILLIANT

Measurements: 5.65 - 5.67 x 3.53 mm
Carat Weight: 0.70 carat
Color Grade: G
Clarity Grade: SI1
Cut Grade: Excellent

PROPORTIONS:
Depth: 62.4%
Table: 57%
Crown Angle: 35.5°
Crown Height: 15.0%
Pavilion Angle: 41.0°
Pavilion Depth: 43.0%
Star Length: 50%
Lower Half: 80%
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted (4.0%)
Culet: None

FINISH:
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None

CLARITY CHARACTERISTICS:
Feather, Cloud

Side stone (only 1, the other is not certified, but from looking at closely is almost the same except for a small inclusion that I can't see with the naked eye, same carat weight and diameter)

ROUND BRILLIANT
Measurements: 4.39 - 4.45 x 2.75 mm
Carat Weight: 0.33 carat
Color Grade: F
Clarity Grade: SI1
Cut Grade: Excellent

PROPORTIONS:
Depth: 62.1%
Table: 57%
Crown Angle: 35.5°
Crown Height: 15.5%
Pavilion Angle: 40.8°
Pavilion Depth: 43.0%
Star Length: 50%
Lower Half: 75%
Girdle: Medium, Faceted (3.5%)
Culet: None

FINISH:
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: None

CLARITY CHARACTERISTICS:
Feather


First stone might be the tiniest bit deep, but it seems like the crown angle is the one most impacting. What sort of change does this have on a diamonds display?

And does this HCA score actually mean anything? I know i've read that an ASET or idealscope is more helpful, but in lieu of them is my eye a better judge (cos at the moment I was surprised at the score)
 
Re: Time to buy - 3 Stone, Round Brilliant in White Gold 6 C

Actually guys, should i be getting in a rejecting this diamond while I still can? When i rang today sounds like they hadn't started working on it yet. If i put the % into the HCA rather than the angles, i get a score of 1.3 instead. I realise it states angles are more accurate, but that is a big change in result.
 
Re: Time to buy - 3 Stone, Round Brilliant in White Gold 6 C

Hi guys,

After getting the GIA certs and worrying myself into a frenzy over the diamond we have chosen, i've managed to calm myself and have realised that if we go to pick it up and we're not happy we just say so and get it changed.

I'm still of the optimistic opinion that we'll get there and love it. Looking around at so many threads, i do prefer the pictures of the stones that are borderline steep/deep 35/41 (or just over in our case with favourable rounding) with the less contrast from the arrows.
My fiancée remembers it as being fantastic, both in how it throws colour and brightness, however my memory being very analytical has remembered colours and shapes and numbers, but not real world looks.

I am quite interested in knowing how it would scale on an AGS grading. From here (http://www.octonus.com/oct/mss/gia-ags.phtml) should i be referring to the AGSPGS, the AGS Charts, or the AGS Guidelines.

It can come out as a 0, 1 or 4 depending on which one. I realise alot of other factors come into the final grade, however just as a basic guide am interested how far outside what would be considered an AGS Triple 0 we are.
 
Re: Time to buy - 3 Stone, Round Brilliant in White Gold 6 C

If your gf saw these stones irl and loved them then that's what's important. Beauty is so subjective.
 
Re: Time to buy - 3 Stone, Round Brilliant in White Gold 6 C

catalyst|1335079386|3177629 said:
Hi guys,

After getting the GIA certs and worrying myself into a frenzy over the diamond we have chosen, i've managed to calm myself and have realised that if we go to pick it up and we're not happy we just say so and get it changed.

I'm still of the optimistic opinion that we'll get there and love it. Looking around at so many threads, i do prefer the pictures of the stones that are borderline steep/deep 35/41 (or just over in our case with favourable rounding) with the less contrast from the arrows.
My fiancée remembers it as being fantastic, both in how it throws colour and brightness, however my memory being very analytical has remembered colours and shapes and numbers, but not real world looks.

I am quite interested in knowing how it would scale on an AGS grading. From here (http://www.octonus.com/oct/mss/gia-ags.phtml) should i be referring to the AGSPGS, the AGS Charts, or the AGS Guidelines.

It can come out as a 0, 1 or 4 depending on which one. I realise alot of other factors come into the final grade, however just as a basic guide am interested how far outside what would be considered an AGS Triple 0 we are.
Click to expand...


The arrows will be difficult to see IRL in a stone of that size, don't worry, you aren't going to see a giant black star in the middle of the stone like in so many macro pics here on PS ::)

To answer your questions - there is no way your stone is flat-out unattractive! It will have a different personality from a shallow-crown type, and if you were comparing two stones of similar size of different types in-person across a variety of lighting types you might notice some differences in light output, but a well-cut example of any given "type" isn't objectively better than another.

Also keep in mind that GIA averages proportions around eight sections of diamond, then rounds (crown to nearest 0.5deg, pav *up* to 0.2deg), then prints those averaged rounded values on the report and assigns a chart-based cut grade. Without more info we have no idea what ranges went into those measurements, whether they were rounded up or down... but by those numbers you are, objectively, looking at well-cut stones, so if you've seen them in-person and you loved them then that's really the most important thing!

AGSL's "gold" report assigns proportions-based cut grade by charts. AGSL's "platinum performance-based" report notes a cut grade that is determined by the AGS PGS (Performance Grading Software) software, based on light ray-tracing analysis on a 3D model of the stone. It isn't perfect but it's a much better representation than the proportions-based GIA/AGS-gold cut grade model. But, of course, since the PGS software requires more detail than you'll find on the GIA report, any guessing can only be as accurate as the info that goes into the tool.
 
Re: Time to buy - 3 Stone, Round Brilliant in White Gold 6 C

OK guys, going in tomorrow to inspect the final product/ pick up the ring.

I have made him aware that I've got some apprehension about the centre stone (not too worried about the side stone getting 2.7, especially when the other is uncertified) and he says he has others in bigger sizes/higher colours/higher claritys that I will be able to compare against.
However he is being very helpful and if we decide to change our minds the only downside is time.

I haven't bought an idealscope (the shipping is a killer), however if we decide tomorrow that its not the perfect stone to us, I will to help pick the second time around.

Now that the stone is set, I will obviously have trouble trying to see any leakage through the pavilion by laying it between my fingers. I am sure they have other stones with similar proportions, just different colour etc that I could do this with though. If i then find a stone with closer to "ideal" proportions we should be able to see a difference that can be related to cut, rather than other factors?

Also the store is in an arcade and most likely not going to let me into the street with any stones. I read a lot about "under a desk" lighting. How dim am I looking for comparison. I realise its a ring of darkness on the table and less overall fire and brightness I will be keeping an eye for. Should this be apparent to a new buyer like myself?
 
Re: Time to buy - 3 Stone, Round Brilliant in White Gold 6 C

OK all done.

Went to view the ring and it is as far as I can tell perfect. Tried every way I could to block light through the pavilion and also ducked down under the counter to get away from the jewellery store lights and could never see any appearance of darkness in the table. Also dirtied it up with my finger as much as I could and tried it all again with no change.

Got to compare it to another stone in store which was 34/41 instead and couldn't see any discernible difference in looks. Also took it outside into direct sunlight and shade under a tree and performed just as well.

I do think at times I can see black under the table but definitely not a ring, more to me arrows that I can only see at directly straight on. Now the problem is more my mind telling me that it shouldn't be as good as I can see it is. Will get some photos up soon, don't have a macro lens so getting it to focus close enough is the problem.
 
Re: Time to buy - 3 Stone, Round Brilliant in White Gold 6 C

Sounds great! Look forward to your photos!
 
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