Tiffany vs. HCA, a rematch

[le bug]

Okay, I''ve lurked in the shadows long enough. Time to register and show myself.

This post touches on some of the material covered in "A day at Tiffany''s with the I-Scope..."
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/a-day-at-tiffanys-with-the-i-scope.69733/

I am a beginner at stone assessment. I have silently been immensely grateful to find the advice and debate on this site, and would be openly even more so if the assembled company were to respond here. I am looking at Tiffany engagement rings, not because my lady demands it (seemingly the most common motivation, judging by posts I have read) but because I am a time-constrained beginner, and I am (almost) willing to rely on a brand to reduce the time required to find a good stone and a nice setting.

I have been using the HCA calculator as an independent view (Garry I just ordered my I-scope today - looking forward to it). On five stones currently in stock at Tiffany''s stores, I have the data below on 5 round cut diamonds. By the way, consistent with other posts, there is no external certificate available.

Stone 1
Size: 1.01
Colour: D
Clarity: IF
Depth: 62.3
Table: 57
Crown angle: 35.5
Pavilion angle: 41.1
HCA: 4.5
Light return: G
Fire: G
Scintillation: G
Spread: VG


Stone 2
Size: 1.02
Colour: E
Clarity: IF
Depth: 61.7
Table: 58
Crown angle: 35.4
Pavilion angle: 41
HCA: 3.7
Light return: G
Fire: G
Scintillation: G
Spread: VG

Stone 3
Size: 1.38
Colour: F
Clarity: VVS1
Depth: 61.2
Table: 59
Crown angle: 35.2
Pavilion angle: 41
HCA: 3.3
Light return: VG
Fire: G
Scintillation: G
Spread: VG


Stone 4
Size: 1.03
Colour: D
Clarity: IF
Depth: 62.6
Table: 57
Crown angle: 35
Pavilion angle: 41.1
HCA: 3.1
Light return: VG
Fire: VG
Scintillation: G
Spread: VG

Stone 5
Size: 1.38
Colour: E
Clarity: VVS1
Depth: 60.4
Table: 59
Crown angle: 33.5
Pavilion angle: 41.1
HCA: 2.1
Light return: VG
Fire: VG
Scintillation: VG
Spread: VG

I have assumed no culet in all stones, as I did not get this information from the Tiffany stores.

Although a statistician would say I do not nearly have a reliable sample size, I see a possible trend here. Stones 1-4 have HCA scores of 3 or above (I don''t think I am doing anything schoolboyishly wrong with the HCA). They all seem to fit a reasonably tight tolerance of crown angle about 35% and pavilion angle about 41%. By HCA standards, I think this is slightly steep/deep to get a score of sub 2.0.

Stone 5 is the exception, and I think the tighter HCA of 2.1 is introduced by the shallower crown angle of 33.5%.

The consistency of the dimensions of stones 1-4 suggests to me that this is intentional. Tiffany are a world leading jeweller, and I expect they employee some of the best craftsmen in the trade (although that could just be the branding speaking through me - haha!). These are all high quality stones by way of colour and clarity, so commonsense suggests to me that Tiffany would make sure the cut tolerances were at the highest end of their scale. In short,if they live up to their brand, this should be intentional - if they wanted to target a shallower cut, they could.

Which leads me to the following questions.

1. Is Tiffany''s ideal cut biased towards more steep/deep than HCA or am I smoking something?
2. What explains this? Is it a limitation of the HCA, a feature of Tiffany''s ideal cut, or both?
3. What impact does it have on fire and brilliance?
4. Am I splitting hairs? Should I just build a bridge and get over it?

Further, if you''re still reading, I am thoroughly open to suggestions on sourcing a ring. I am HK based, and have been looking at local big brand jewellers - Bulgari, De Beers, Tiffany, etc, and also local jewellers. I can get to London for a ring, but would have difficulty making it to a US vendor.

Thanks in advance for your time

 

[Lorelei]

Hi lebug and welcome!

They all look like steep deeps except for the last one, which is the diamond I would be most interested in. Do you have the star and lower girdle facets for the diamonds too please? That might help some of them out. The girdle thickness, diameter, polish and symmetries for each would also be useful please.

If you can get to London, Dr Indira Marchant sells top cut Infinity h&a, she is located in the Royal Exchange -

www.bestdiamonds.co.uk

As to your questions, my thoughts....

1. Is Tiffany's ideal cut biased towards more steep/deep than HCA or am I smoking something? The diamonds you have listed, 4 certainly fall within steep deep range.
2. What explains this? Is it a limitation of the HCA, a feature of Tiffany's ideal cut, or both? These have obviously passed the Tiffany screening process ( I assume these have Tiffany grading reports), due to this cut grading if this is indeed the case, I am not sure if they round the numbers for us to determine how steep deep they are, nor can we tell with any accuracy without images.
3. What impact does it have on fire and brilliance? Depends, leakage is the common disadvantage with steep deeps.
4. Am I splitting hairs? Should I just build a bridge and get over it? I don't think you are splitting hairs, I would say proceed with caution and do all you can to check the cut of these diamonds out before you hand over the money. Personally I would rather have a diamond of top cut quality with supportive images but thats me, if you value the Tiffany name then of course thats fine and we can help you accordingly.

 

[stone-cold11]

Ditto.

 

[le bug]

Date: 11/12/2009 10:33:20 AM
Author: Lorelei
Hi lebug and welcome!


They all look like steep deeps except for the last one, which is the diamond I would be most interested in. Do you have the star and lower girdle facets for the diamonds too please? That might help some of them out. The girdle thickness, diameter, polish and symmetries for each would also be useful please.


If you can get to London, Dr Indira Marchant sells top cut Infinity h&a, she is located in the Royal Exchange -


www.bestdiamonds.co.uk


As to your questions, my thoughts....


1. Is Tiffany''s ideal cut biased towards more steep/deep than HCA or am I smoking something? The diamonds you have listed, 4 certainly fall within steep deep range.

2. What explains this? Is it a limitation of the HCA, a feature of Tiffany''s ideal cut, or both? These have obviously passed the Tiffany screening process ( I assume these have Tiffany grading reports), due to this cut grading if this is indeed the case, I am not sure if they round the numbers for us to determine how steep deep they are, nor can we tell with any accuracy without images.

3. What impact does it have on fire and brilliance? Depends, leakage is the common disadvantage with steep deeps.

4. Am I splitting hairs? Should I just build a bridge and get over it? I don''t think you are splitting hairs, I would say proceed with caution and do all you can to check the cut of these diamonds out before you hand over the money. Personally I would rather have a diamond of top cut quality with supportive images but thats me, if you value the Tiffany name then of course thats fine and we can help you accordingly.

Lorelei

Thanks for the lightning response.

I have no other facet information. The salesperson seemed surprised enough that I was asking for this information, and initially somewhat reluctant to give it to me. The only extra info I have is: Stone 4, girdle medium to slightly thick, Stone 5 girdle thin to medium. I am a dogged kind of person, and can go back and get the facet info if it would be valuable

On 2 above, yes they have Tiffany in-house reports (I saw two), but they would not give me copies to take away. The reports contain no images, and they have no lightscope, firescope or similar instore (by contrast, De Beers next door positively encouraged me to put their stones under their digital scope). I couldn''t immediately tell you what other information was contained within the reports.

On 4 I am not bound to the Tiffany name, just looking for an efficient way of finding a good stone and nice setting whose ethical origin I have some sense of trust in. Would love to really get into the market (first steps seem fascinating) but annoyingly don''t have the time.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/12/2009 11:02:24 AM
Author: le bug

Date: 11/12/2009 10:33:20 AM
Author: Lorelei
Hi lebug and welcome!


They all look like steep deeps except for the last one, which is the diamond I would be most interested in. Do you have the star and lower girdle facets for the diamonds too please? That might help some of them out. The girdle thickness, diameter, polish and symmetries for each would also be useful please.


If you can get to London, Dr Indira Marchant sells top cut Infinity h&a, she is located in the Royal Exchange -


www.bestdiamonds.co.uk


As to your questions, my thoughts....


1. Is Tiffany''s ideal cut biased towards more steep/deep than HCA or am I smoking something? The diamonds you have listed, 4 certainly fall within steep deep range.

2. What explains this? Is it a limitation of the HCA, a feature of Tiffany''s ideal cut, or both? These have obviously passed the Tiffany screening process ( I assume these have Tiffany grading reports), due to this cut grading if this is indeed the case, I am not sure if they round the numbers for us to determine how steep deep they are, nor can we tell with any accuracy without images.

3. What impact does it have on fire and brilliance? Depends, leakage is the common disadvantage with steep deeps.

4. Am I splitting hairs? Should I just build a bridge and get over it? I don''t think you are splitting hairs, I would say proceed with caution and do all you can to check the cut of these diamonds out before you hand over the money. Personally I would rather have a diamond of top cut quality with supportive images but thats me, if you value the Tiffany name then of course thats fine and we can help you accordingly.

Lorelei

Thanks for the lightning response. Most welcome!

I have no other facet information. The salesperson seemed surprised enough that I was asking for this information, and initially somewhat reluctant to give it to me. The only extra info I have is: Stone 4, girdle medium to slightly thick, Stone 5 girdle thin to medium. I am a dogged kind of person, and can go back and get the facet info if it would be valuable I am not surprised.....The info would be useful if you wanted to pursue any of the steep deeps as in some cases longer lower girdle facets along with precision cutting can '' save'' these diamonds from leakage, but this isn''t in all cases and all that could be determined from this info is that we could say maybe the lower girdle length might help in such and such a case, but without images it is only guessing.

On 2 above, yes they have Tiffany in-house reports (I saw two), but they would not give me copies to take away. The reports contain no images, and they have no lightscope, firescope or similar instore (by contrast, De Beers next door positively encouraged me to put their stones under their digital scope). I couldn''t immediately tell you what other information was contained within the reports.

On 4 I am not bound to the Tiffany name, just looking for an efficient way of finding a good stone and nice setting whose ethical origin I have some sense of trust in. Would love to really get into the market (first steps seem fascinating) but annoyingly don''t have the time.

 

[rockabee]

le bug - are you in new york city? if so, there are some really good vendors who sell online that are located in manhattan that i would suggest you at least take a look at.

 

[le bug]

Rockabee - no, I am in HK. I do get to London also around greater Asia a lot, if you have any suggestions - Australia, NZ, Japan, SE Asia, etc. But I won''t be in NY for a while. I''d rather not risk missing out with my future wife (he says confidently) by waiting to get to NY ...

Lorelei - what am I asking for regarding lower girdle facets? The angles?

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 11/12/2009 11:02:24 AM
Author: le bug

Date: 11/12/2009 10:33:20 AM
Author: Lorelei
Hi lebug and welcome!


They all look like steep deeps except for the last one, which is the diamond I would be most interested in. Do you have the star and lower girdle facets for the diamonds too please? That might help some of them out. The girdle thickness, diameter, polish and symmetries for each would also be useful please.


If you can get to London, Dr Indira Marchant sells top cut Infinity h&a, she is located in the Royal Exchange -


www.bestdiamonds.co.uk


As to your questions, my thoughts....


1. Is Tiffany''s ideal cut biased towards more steep/deep than HCA or am I smoking something? The diamonds you have listed, 4 certainly fall within steep deep range.

2. What explains this? Is it a limitation of the HCA, a feature of Tiffany''s ideal cut, or both? These have obviously passed the Tiffany screening process ( I assume these have Tiffany grading reports), due to this cut grading if this is indeed the case, I am not sure if they round the numbers for us to determine how steep deep they are, nor can we tell with any accuracy without images.

3. What impact does it have on fire and brilliance? Depends, leakage is the common disadvantage with steep deeps.

4. Am I splitting hairs? Should I just build a bridge and get over it? I don''t think you are splitting hairs, I would say proceed with caution and do all you can to check the cut of these diamonds out before you hand over the money. Personally I would rather have a diamond of top cut quality with supportive images but thats me, if you value the Tiffany name then of course thats fine and we can help you accordingly.

Lorelei

Thanks for the lightning response.

I have no other facet information. The salesperson seemed surprised enough that I was asking for this information, and initially somewhat reluctant to give it to me. The only extra info I have is: Stone 4, girdle medium to slightly thick, Stone 5 girdle thin to medium. I am a dogged kind of person, and can go back and get the facet info if it would be valuable

On 2 above, yes they have Tiffany in-house reports (I saw two), but they would not give me copies to take away. The reports contain no images, and they have no lightscope, firescope or similar instore (by contrast, De Beers next door positively encouraged me to put their stones under their digital scope). I couldn''t immediately tell you what other information was contained within the reports.

On 4 I am not bound to the Tiffany name, just looking for an efficient way of finding a good stone and nice setting whose ethical origin I have some sense of trust in. Would love to really get into the market (first steps seem fascinating) but annoyingly don''t have the time.

I applaud you for purchasing an Idealscope and doing this much research

.

But I have to ask is finding a Tiffany stone that shows very little leakage similar to an Ideal Cut Round (WF ACA, BGD Round, Infinity HA) diamond your goal?
It seems like if you are willing to go through this much trouble you will have already noticed the premium you have to pay at Tiffany''s.
Why search for a needle in a haystack at Tiffany''s when you can get a guaranteed HA with superior light performance from a PS vendor like BGD, WF , GOG, Infinity?

Now if you are worried about import taxes that is something to consider but I doubt that comes even close to the inflated prices of Tiffany''s.
Also you are probably aware that Tiffany''s sales staff are not very knowledgeable and are pushing the Tiffany''s name and quality which is quite inconsistent at times and I doubt their staff would even understand most of your technical questions.

I was absolutely floored on my trip to Tiffany''s last weekend at the poor matching in a set of pearls I was looking at. 4X-6X the price of the reccommended places like Pearl Paradise on here and the salesperson kept expounding on how TIffany''s pearls were the best in the world.

I think Tiffany''s is for those who love the Blue Box and think that the name stands for quality however inconsistent that may be. Well it is quality compared to most B&M stores but you have the luxury of the niche vendors to choose here that bring quality to whole different level and don''t charge the premium.

 

[FB.]

Date: 11/12/2009 10:33:20 AM
Author: Lorelei
Hi lebug and welcome!

They all look like steep deeps except for the last one, which is the diamond I would be most interested in. Do you have the star and lower girdle facets for the diamonds too please? That might help some of them out. The girdle thickness, diameter, polish and symmetries for each would also be useful please.

If you can get to London, Dr Indira Marchant sells top cut Infinity h&a, she is located in the Royal Exchange -

www.bestdiamonds.co.uk

As to your questions, my thoughts....

1. Is Tiffany's ideal cut biased towards more steep/deep than HCA or am I smoking something? The diamonds you have listed, 4 certainly fall within steep deep range.
2. What explains this? Is it a limitation of the HCA, a feature of Tiffany's ideal cut, or both? These have obviously passed the Tiffany screening process ( I assume these have Tiffany grading reports), due to this cut grading if this is indeed the case, I am not sure if they round the numbers for us to determine how steep deep they are, nor can we tell with any accuracy without images.
3. What impact does it have on fire and brilliance? Depends, leakage is the common disadvantage with steep deeps.
4. Am I splitting hairs? Should I just build a bridge and get over it? I don't think you are splitting hairs, I would say proceed with caution and do all you can to check the cut of these diamonds out before you hand over the money. Personally I would rather have a diamond of top cut quality with supportive images but thats me, if you value the Tiffany name then of course thats fine and we can help you accordingly.

With crown angle numbers of 35.5, 35.4, 35.2, 35.0, 33.5, it would appear that the stones are rounded to 0.1' on the crown, which is a fairly tight band.
Likewise, the pavilions 41.1, 41.0, 41.0, 41.1, 41.1 would suggest 0.1' drounding on the pavilion.

Assuming an accurate scanner, they appear to be quite detailed - particularly when compared to the 0.2' pavilion and 0.5' crown rounding of GIA.

I have noticed a trend in UK jewellers in the last several months towards ever-higher quantities of steep/deep stones in their stocks and it's extremely hard for me to find a GIA-Ex that isn't steep/deep.
I guess that the steep/deeps are being bought-in from wholesalers at better prices, which allows an improvement in the profit margin of the retailer in these tough economic times.

 

[Laila619]

Hi there (welcome!),

Steep deeps are cut that way because they are a benefit to the cutter, not the buyer. More profit.

I don't think it's because of Tiffany thinking these are somehow superior stones and thus that's all they sell.

 

[stone-cold11]

From what I understand, Tiffany cut their own stones.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/12/2009 11:37:25 AM
Author: Stone-cold11
From what I understand, Tiffany cut their own stones.

Ditto

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/12/2009 11:18:41 AM
Author: le bug
Rockabee - no, I am in HK. I do get to London also around greater Asia a lot, if you have any suggestions - Australia, NZ, Japan, SE Asia, etc. But I won''t be in NY for a while. I''d rather not risk missing out with my future wife (he says confidently) by waiting to get to NY ...

Lorelei - what am I asking for regarding lower girdle facets? The angles?

The lower girdle facets are normally shown on diamond reports as a percentage such as 75%, 80% or similar, so you could ask if they have that figure for each.

 

[le bug]

ChunkyCushionLover [nice handle]

Three days ago I knew absolutely nothing and had never shopped for a diamond, so I''m learning fast.

Yes, I have noticed the premium at Tiffany''s. I couldn''t really say how technical the staff were (I''m hardly a challenge for them right now!) but they were certainly giving me glib lines about how beautiful Tiffany stones are, blah blah, without really going into depth or trying to educate me.

To be truthful I''m not familiar with the PS vendors, but am open minded. Obvious naive questions come to mind.

Do PS vendors ship internationally?
How do I buy - search for a stone on the site, and seek a setting by the vendor of the stone?
Do I ensure shipping security simply by insuring the shipment?
How do I trust that what is delivered will be as promised? If it was not, I would rather not be pursuing some kind of a complaint against a US vendor from Hong Kong ...
I guess if the ring doesn''t fit, I would get it resized by a local jeweller in HK?

I also guess I have to get comfortable with simply buying a stone sight unseen.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/12/2009 11:51:08 AM
Author: le bug

To be truthful I'm not familiar with the PS vendors, but am open minded. Obvious naive questions come to mind.

Do PS vendors ship internationally? Yes.
How do I buy - search for a stone on the site, and seek a setting by the vendor of the stone? Yes or contact them and they will work with you however you prefer, either by email or phone.
Do I ensure shipping security simply by insuring the shipment? The vendor will make sure your purchase is insured appropriately for the journey to you.
How do I trust that what is delivered will be as promised? If it was not, I would rather not be pursuing some kind of a complaint against a US vendor from Hong Kong ...The vendors here have worked very hard to acquire and keep an excellent reputation so no need to worry about deliberate dishonesty, for peace of mind you can take your diamond to an independant appraisal to ensure it matches the grading report as verification.
I guess if the ring doesn't fit, I would get it resized by a local jeweller in HK? Depends on the setting, some aren't sizeable such as ones with diamonds all around the band, but a metal solitaire shouldn't present too many problems in the majority of circumstances.

I also guess I have to get comfortable with simply buying a stone sight unseen. It can take a leap of faith but many of us have done so with excellent results and would do so again in a heartbeat.

 

[le bug]

Date: 11/12/2009 11:37:24 AM
Author: Laila619
Hi there (welcome!),


Steep deeps are cut that way because they are a benefit to the cutter, not the buyer. More profit. Thanks. Why? Because it allows them to create a heavier cut stone than if they went shallower, and thus charge more?


I don''t think it''s because of Tiffany thinking these are somehow superior stones and thus that''s all they sell.

 

[le bug]

Date: 11/12/2009 11:41:33 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 11/12/2009 11:37:25 AM

Author: Stone-cold11

From what I understand, Tiffany cut their own stones.

Ditto

Agreed. That''s what the Tiffany sales staff told me.

 

[Laila619]

Date: 11/12/2009 11:55:16 AM
Author: le bug

Date: 11/12/2009 11:37:24 AM
Author: Laila619
Hi there (welcome!),


Steep deeps are cut that way because they are a benefit to the cutter, not the buyer. More profit. Thanks. Why? Because it allows them to create a heavier cut stone than if they went shallower, and thus charge more?


I don''t think it''s because of Tiffany thinking these are somehow superior stones and thus that''s all they sell.

Yes, you are correct. The diamond retains more (unnecessary) carat weight, which allows them to command a higher price.

 

[megeve]

le bug, you really have nothing to worry about the honesty of PS vendors. I am in Switzerland and I have ordered a pair of studs from BGD and the exact diamonds with settings got to me without a glitch. I also got them verified by an appraiser here. I am now in the process of ordering another pair with them again and let them send the pair to Leon for settings. If you do a search on *Leon Mege*, you would find LM to be the best in custom made rings, that is if you want to go the route of custom made.

 

[AprilBaby]

You have gotten fabulous responses from the other posters but I agree, if you could get to London and see Dr Indira Marchant you would get to see AND be educated by one of the best!

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 11/12/2009 11:51:08 AM
Author: le bug
ChunkyCushionLover [nice handle]

Three days ago I knew absolutely nothing and had never shopped for a diamond, so I'm learning fast.

Yes, I have noticed the premium at Tiffany's. I couldn't really say how technical the staff were (I'm hardly a challenge for them right now!) but they were certainly giving me glib lines about how beautiful Tiffany stones are, blah blah, without really going into depth or trying to educate me.

To be truthful I'm not familiar with the PS vendors, but am open minded. Obvious naive questions come to mind.

Do PS vendors ship internationally?
How do I buy - search for a stone on the site, and seek a setting by the vendor of the stone?
Do I ensure shipping security simply by insuring the shipment?
How do I trust that what is delivered will be as promised? If it was not, I would rather not be pursuing some kind of a complaint against a US vendor from Hong Kong ...
I guess if the ring doesn't fit, I would get it resized by a local jeweller in HK?

I also guess I have to get comfortable with simply buying a stone sight unseen.

This forum is especially good for finding Round Brilliant diamonds of the highest quality cut. This has a lot to do with that fact that there are four vendors who advertise here and offer their own line of signature hearts and and arrows diamonds with the highest symmetry and light return standards. These being goodoldgold.com, whiteflash.com, briangavindiamonds.com and InfinityDiamonds.com

These vendors and many others who advertise and are discussed here are under a constant microscope, every complaint made by a poster here is taken very seriously and every little detail about their operations is monitored. We have rarely had a case if ever where there was an unresolved dispute about one of the above vendors. A quick phone call to any of these vendors and you will understand the enthusiasm and complete professionalism that they operate under.

I am in Canada and imported our Diamonds from the US and didn't want to make a wrong decision either, although not as difficult to operate as HK still being international and having to deal with Import duties I understand how you want to be right the first time. If you were buying a Fancy shape I'd say it might be difficult to judge site unseen but luckily rounds are really optimized already and we can judge with great precision from the numbers and reflector tests their qualities without seeing the diamond in person. If it makes you more comfortable GoodOldGold.com will shoot a video of your possible choices so that you can see the performance of the diamond prior to purchase and compare it to other selections in their inventory.

There are many threads here where posters just like yourself (most have done much less research than you) come and post their preferences and one of many helpful posters will help them find the diamond that works best with their preferences.

We can help you nail down some choices:

Please help us understand your 4Cs.

1) Carat Weight (Is it bigger the better? You have a range of 1 - 1.4CT) Please comment further.
2) Color (You choice the icyiest colorless diamonds they are also the most rare and most expensive. You would be able to get a much bigger diamond and still be colorless in F or G, that is one choice you will need to make and depends on how sensitive your eyes are. For most unless you put an F next to a D or E you could not tell them apart faceup. But diamonds are graded facedown in front of a white background so you should be aware of these suttle differences.)
3) Clarity (Many here try to get the biggest stone that fits their budget and to save money they choose an eye clean stone that could be as low Clarity as SI1 or VS2 and still noone could tell the difference between these and an IF unless you look under a microscope. For others knowing the diamonds is near flawless comforts them and they want a mind clean stone).
4) Cut - Since you are in HK and don't want to be shipping more than one stone I would reccomend a recognized branded stone and I wouldn't try to save money in this category.

If you were to tell us for Example:

Budget- $10,000 USD (Stone Only)
Carat Weight = 1.Ct+
Color= F+
Cut = Hearts and Arrows Ideal

I could quickly do a search for you or many of the other posters here will be happy to help you find a choice quickly and easily.
We also should know what type of Tiffany setting you liked most or other setting so that we can find a vendor that can offer both for you.

This forum contains in my opinion the TOUGHEST critics of diamonds you will find anywhere in the world and we are all here to help present you with options and find the best diamond given your preferences.
My experiences are with Cushion Cut diamonds as this is my area of expertise but rounds are a lot easier to shop for and I am sure myself or many of the other posters can help you find what you are looking for.

Lorelei has a wealth of experience with Round Diamonds far more that 99.9% of the sales staff you will find in B&M stores and I have no doubt once you start to consider purchasing online herself or any of the other expericend posters here will reply once we know your preferences.

Regards,
CCL

 

[le bug]

Gotcha.

Separate thanks to FB, megeve and AprilBaby.

CCL - still finding my feet, and weighing the various trade offs among the C''s. On balance, I think I would lean towards preferring what you describe as mind clean. But this is a little fluid - still researching.

Broadly, at the moment, my appetite looks like this. I am sure it will narrow.

Carat - 1.0 to 1.8 (I suspect bigger will look excessive on my girlfriend''s slight hands)
Colour - F+ (given the stones I have seen in the flesh, as it were)
Clarity - am thinking VVS2+
Cut - still learning what it means to be HA, etc
Budget - I''m a little cautious about disclosing yet in a public forum I''m a trader by nature, so I''m always a little cautious about playing my cards. Can you forgive me?

By the way, what is B&M?

I''m very grateful for the help of the assembled company, thank you. Would someone please explain - do most of the members here work in the industry? do they work for the advertising vendors? are they simply practiced collectors/privateers?

Signing off here - it''s 2 a.m. in HK. Will check back tomorrow.

Regards

le bug

 

[le bug]

Date: 11/12/2009 1:19:50 PM
Author: le bug
Gotcha.


Separate thanks to FB, megeve and AprilBaby.


CCL - still finding my feet, and weighing the various trade offs among the C''s. On balance, I think I would lean towards preferring what you describe as mind clean. But this is a little fluid - still researching.


Broadly, at the moment, my appetite looks like this. I am sure it will narrow.


Carat - 1.0 to 1.8 (I suspect bigger will look excessive on my girlfriend''s slight hands)

Colour - F+ (given the stones I have seen in the flesh, as it were)

Clarity - am thinking VVS2+

Cut - still learning what it means to be HA, etc

Budget - I''m a little cautious about disclosing yet in a public forum I''m a trader by nature, so I''m always a little cautious about playing my cards. Can you forgive me?


By the way, what is B&M? Bricks and Mortar. Duh. I guess that was an intelligence test. And I failed.


I''m very grateful for the help of the assembled company, thank you. Would someone please explain - do most of the members here work in the industry? do they work for the advertising vendors? are they simply practiced collectors/privateers?


Signing off here - it''s 2 a.m. in HK. Will check back tomorrow.


Regards


le bug

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/12/2009 1:19:50 PM
Author: le bug
Gotcha.

Separate thanks to FB, megeve and AprilBaby.

CCL - still finding my feet, and weighing the various trade offs among the C's. On balance, I think I would lean towards preferring what you describe as mind clean. But this is a little fluid - still researching.

Broadly, at the moment, my appetite looks like this. I am sure it will narrow.

Carat - 1.0 to 1.8 (I suspect bigger will look excessive on my girlfriend's slight hands)
Colour - F+ (given the stones I have seen in the flesh, as it were)
Clarity - am thinking VVS2+
Cut - still learning what it means to be HA, etc
Budget - I'm a little cautious about disclosing yet in a public forum I'm a trader by nature, so I'm always a little cautious about playing my cards. Can you forgive me?

By the way, what is B&M?

I'm very grateful for the help of the assembled company, thank you. Would someone please explain - do most of the members here work in the industry? do they work for the advertising vendors? are they simply practiced collectors/privateers?

Signing off here - it's 2 a.m. in HK. Will check back tomorrow.

Regards

le bug

No. The majority of us like myself are not experts but consumers who have some knowledge of diamonds, we are here purely to assist other consumers. Pricescope is primarily a consumer education forum where we try to keep a positive and educational atmosphere and help others.

Do bear in mind that as the majority of posters offering advice are just consumers who lack real experience and expertise for the most part, weigh all advice offered carefully, verify it and take from it what makes sense to you.

There are experts and vendors here too, you can tell them apart from consumers fairly easily as they will have their credentials at the bottom of their posts.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 11/12/2009 1:28:35 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 11/12/2009 1:19:50 PM
Author: le bug
Gotcha.

Separate thanks to FB, megeve and AprilBaby.

CCL - still finding my feet, and weighing the various trade offs among the C''s. On balance, I think I would lean towards preferring what you describe as mind clean. But this is a little fluid - still researching.

Broadly, at the moment, my appetite looks like this. I am sure it will narrow.

Carat - 1.0 to 1.8 (I suspect bigger will look excessive on my girlfriend''s slight hands)
Colour - F+ (given the stones I have seen in the flesh, as it were)
Clarity - am thinking VVS2+
Cut - still learning what it means to be HA, etc
Budget - I''m a little cautious about disclosing yet in a public forum I''m a trader by nature, so I''m always a little cautious about playing my cards. Can you forgive me?

By the way, what is B&M?

I''m very grateful for the help of the assembled company, thank you. Would someone please explain - do most of the members here work in the industry? do they work for the advertising vendors? are they simply practiced collectors/privateers?

Signing off here - it''s 2 a.m. in HK. Will check back tomorrow.

Regards

le bug

No. The majority of us like myself are not experts but consumers who have some knowledge of diamonds, we are here purely to assist other consumers. Pricescope is primarily a consumer education forum where we try to keep a positive and educational atmosphere and help others.

Do bear in mind that as the majority of posters offering advice are just consumers who lack real experience and expertise for the most part, weigh all advice offered carefully, verify it and take from it what makes sense to you.

There are experts and vendors here too, you can tell them apart from consumers fairly easily as they will have their credentials at the bottom of their posts.

Lorelei is being humble and politically correct and this seems to be a theme on the forums lately. As you will notice by her post count she has been doing this a LONG time (tirelessly day after day as well) and is not in the industry but I would argue that many of the prosumers (she happens to be one of the more active ones lately) have seen hundreds of diamonds in real life and thousands through online pictures.

The rules on Pricescope are that Vendors and other trade professionals are not allowed to comment subjectively on other vendors stones nor are they allowed to sell their services or goods either directly or indirectly. They can comment objectively and correct any obvious incorrect factual information being given though.

No consumer poster is supposed to have any incentive to give advice in favour of any vendor here, and it would be extremely damaging if it was discovered that anyone was doing so (it would be pretty obvious as well) as a schill or as an affiliate.

B&M is brick and morter.

Most of the posters here are diamond enthusiasts and addicts who enjoy looking at diamonds and helping others in their buying decisions. Many of us have realized how the wealth of incomplete and misleading information out there and we strive to educate consumers to the best of our abilities. Some posters go on to become trademembers but then they are restricted in what opinions they are allowed to post.