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Thoughts on this Whiteflash Expert Selection please

ccuheartnurse

ccuheartnurse

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 22, 2002
Messages
1,915
Hi All,

Looking at this stone & wonder why it took a hit in scintillation on the HCA. Are the angles that off? I thought they were pretty good/ complimentary & the stone looks promising, apart from the darkness under the table in the image that WF took. WF says it's a bright stone. I have it on hold & currently awaiting the stone to return from AGS where it's being checked out.
There hasn't been much in this price range lately. I though it was worth checking out.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2119081.htm

Opinions?
Judy
 
HCA.. 1.7 TIC
Light Return... Excellent
Fire... Excellent
Scintillation... Very Good
Spread... Very Good

Just changing the 40.9 to 40.8, brings it down to 1.4 so I'm not getting nutty about the HCA score, just trying to understand the angle combo & what this might mean in real life.

I recently checked a stone out over the summer & the numbers were great but it was awful & had a darkness under the table. Stone was not from WF.
 
My guess is that the 62% depth is what is causing the narrower parameters to get a stone into TIC or FIC.

BUT -- The HCA score is meaningless in this case. The main purpose of the HCA tool, for those that use it, is to narrow down the selection of 'ideal' diamonds to those that may have potential. That potential is checked and confirmed as performance with an ASET. You can see a great ASET for this stone. A great ASET is the proof of performance.

You have a great ASET with a tiny table (55%) and great numbers for 2119081. If the inclusions and color work for you, its a great stone.
 
Nice stone!
 
Thank you everyone for your input.
Rockysalamanfer....I know we don't need to use the HCA for AGS but I couldn't stop myself. Lol lol.
Flyingpig....the fluoro can be a positive, too bad they don't offer more! I did ask WF to take a pic side by side with an I colour stone & really, was no colour difference.
DF.... That stone charmed you with the 55 table didn't it?! Lol. I've had 56 but not this small. I suspect I'll like it too.
 
HCA is no good with scintillation and does not accurately assess it. I wouldn't use it for much more a way to assess theoretical light return
 
It's beautiful! If you don't take it can you let me know, this is exactly what I want?! Would take a private sale of my smaller stone but I love J and at least medium blue!
 
GearGirly said:
It's beautiful! If you don't take it can you let me know, this is exactly what I want?! Would take a private sale of my smaller stone but I love J and at least medium blue!
Click to expand...

It's much more reliable to ask WF to let you know if it becomes available.
 
Thanks for posting this. I am also gravitating toward these Expert Selection diamonds...

Can anyone say they can see the difference in real life in a setting between one of these with a good ASET versus ACA?

Also I can't see the inclusions of the certificate.
 
gm89uk..thanks for your insight.

GearGirly... Email Brittany at WF & start communication with her. But really the best thing to do is to create an account & set up your preferred list. Then when new stones get listed, you'll get an email notification. Someone at WF can help you with that.

824jagdds I'm not sure about the differences. All the WF stones I've seen in person have been ACA. But I can say that I've owned a few stones over the years & none have been branded because I didn't want to pay the premium. All my stones have Ideal / excellent cut grades so even though they aren't branded super ideals, I think they are outstanding stones. I can't see where the inclusion is on the plot of the AGS cert but you can see it on the Aset/ Idealscope image. WF said it was completely eye clean. The stone should be back any day now from AGS so I'm curious to see if there has been any changes. But if you are on a tight budget, buying an Expert Selection is a heck of a lot better than buying blind from some virtual list. It gives me peace that WF has vetted it good enough to offer it as part of their lifetime trade up (which I'll be using in future...lmao).
 
Each expert selection stone is discredited for it's own merit from ACA. So it might be as simple as fluor (no fluor in ACA) although most of the time fluor does not negatively affect performance (and I think it is somewhat OTT ACA cannot have medium fluor). If performance is otherwise the same, you get a fluor AND expert selection discount (avoiding ACA branding).

Some may narrowly miss HA grading, slight imperfections in ASET, some may have proportion exclusion, such as depth 62.1 (otherwise equal, good deals). Very rarely have I seen an expert selection I wouldn't buy.

Ask WF why that stone was discredited ACA branding, and occasionally it's something very minor that doesn't affect the diamond at all and is just in the paperwork for brand consistency
 
I can see some imperfections (really small ones) with the H&A. I'm not WF, but I wonder if that was in play.

Its not on hold, you might want to do so.
 
Here are 2 comparison pics that WF sent me..WF Comparison 2.jpg

WF Comparison-1.jpg
 
OMG @ccuheartnurse , I just posted a super fiery AGS000 stone, and am crazy about how super bright and lively and crazy on fire it is. And I plugged it into the HCA. 3.0 I kid you NOT. And I just skipped that step when I was choosing because I thought AGS000 should be good enough.

table 57.4
depth 62.
35.5%
40.9%

I cannot explain it. I guess I'm really really glad I skipped this step before we committed.

So if I were in your shoes, I would FOR SURE give this stone serious consideration, and would definitely look at it.
 
I also have a 2nd stone I'm considering. A stone from a lady Michelle from Parris Jewels,
https://www.yelp.ca/biz/parris-jewels-new-york. She's in the midst of setting up her shop. She so far has provided excellent customer service, & has gone out to pick up the very stone locally I found on Blue Nile. Blue Nile has it for almost $2k more than she is willing to sell this stone. I think because she is relatively new & wants to build her base up, she's got some great pricing. Here is a pic BN provided me & here is the cert. I asked Michelle for an Idealscope image & Aset, which are pretty much min standards here on PS. I'm a bit conflicted because the colour is what I want, the numbers are good, & the stone has fabulous clarity for a reasonable price. Michelle said the stone is absolutely clear, no ill effects from the strong fluoro. Ironically, BN had this very stone down to $16500 last weekend then boom on Monday, $17500 by wire. Grrrrrrr... Michelle is beating the BN price. Basically, the WF & the Parris Jewels stone are $300 difference. ** thinking thinking thinking ** Tough choice unless someone can find a flaw with the 2.21 VS-1, I stone. Not the greatest pic. Looks a bit ugly actually. LOL But Michelle said it's not like this in person.

2.21. I - VS-1- Strong FLuoro--BN PIc.jpg



https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD09114696
Michelle sent me a video but I can't up load it. Probably her fault. LOL Nahh...I'm computer useless, it's probably my fault.
 
I guess I need to decide how important an upgrade policy is to me. I'd say it's up there. :tongue: I like my options. :lol-2:
 
Thank you LLJ'smom for your input. I've been following your thread with a lot of interest. Thank you for starting it. ;-)
 
The new cert just became available. Not a lot of surprises, except for the table size. Back in 2011 it was 55.1, but as of 2017 it's 55.9. How does it go up that much? New standards of measuring? Just curious as it's not going to make any difference if I choose to keep it or not. I was getting attached to to a smaller 55 ish table. Also, the crystal & feather are more prevalent on the newer cert as opposed to the 2011 one where it was not noticeable at all. At least I know where they are. I wouldn't think the locations of the inclusions are going to matter that much. Overall, it's a pretty clean SI-1.
 

Attachments

That BN stone image may be a little tilted, but that picture surely would deter me from buying it! They need to learn to take pictures that are 100% head on if they want to sell stones! (or was that pic from the other seller? Ask her to do it again!)

To be honest, if 2 stones were equal in cut, I'd rather have I VS1 over J SI1. But in this case, thus far I believe the Whiteflash stone is better cut, and I won't compromise lower than the Expert Selection/Premium Select level. In regard to the WF stone, it definitely looks whiter than the J next to it in the picture, so it may be a higher J which is great!
 
Thank you DS. I appreciate your eagle eyes & your honesty. :-). I'm just going to have to upgrade colour in future. Lol. Well, at least that's the plan. There's always a plan I think. :-D.
 
ccuheartnurse said:
The new cert just became available. Not a lot of surprises, except for the table size. Back in 2011 it was 55.1, but as of 2017 it's 55.9. How does it go up that much? New standards of measuring? Just curious as it's not going to make any difference if I choose to keep it or not. I was getting attached to to a smaller 55 ish table. Also, the crystal & feather are more prevalent on the newer cert as opposed to the 2011 one where it was not noticeable at all. At least I know where they are. I wouldn't think the locations of the inclusions are going to matter that much. Overall, it's a pretty clean SI-1.
Click to expand...
bad scan by AGS. It happens
The star % is off, and the ASET and H&A scan are off as well.
I would ask WF to take a look. If it is a wrong scan by AGS, I would probably ask for a new report. I would be very surprised if they don't accommodate
 
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Flyingpig, thank you. You are so observant. I've been so busy with work, that I never bothered to really stop & look. I was hoping to sit down tomorrow as I have a few days off, to take a much closer look. I noticed the stars were different from the original of 54 & now 52. I do notice the computer generated scan isn't as good as the original. What makes you think it's not the right stone? Or is it just a matter of whomever took the pictures, didn't take good ones? I'll bring this up with WF as well.
Again, thank you for your advice, much appreciated.
 
It is the correct stone. It is just the diamond is tilted in the ASET and H&A images.
It may not be a big deal.
But I am surprised that WF accepted the new report with such imperfect scan, and the stone and report passed WFs internal verification.
The diamond is far superior than what appears on the report.
 
Flyingpig, thanks again. I'll ask WF about that.

SimoneDi, thank you for the link. Brian's stones are beautifully cut. I have tried to find one on his site for some time. Bottom line, his pricing is higher. The stone he has listed is $3500 more than the wire price for the WF stone I'm considering. My intent is to upgrade my stone at some point in time, & WF has a pretty hassle free kind of upgrade policy.
 
I recently bought a 3 stone platinum trellis ring from WF, 2 of the stones were ACA and 1 expert selection, I asked the girl why the one stones wasn't ACA and she said it was because one of the hearts was not quite perfect :) I had said I wanted all to be ACA but she assured me that the expert selection stone would be beautiful and she was right. I can't tell which stone it is :) I think expert selection is a great choice to save a few dollars, my stones are .55 .70 .55 carats, I love my ACAs and ES stone, I would love a over 2 carat ES stone and ring. I look forward to seeing your ring if you choose the ES stone. My stones are so beautiful.. I would buy another in a heartbeat if I had any money :)


ccuheartnurse said:
Thank you everyone for your input.
Rockysalamanfer....I know we don't need to use the HCA for AGS but I couldn't stop myself. Lol lol.
Flyingpig....the fluoro can be a positive, too bad they don't offer more! I did ask WF to take a pic side by side with an I colour stone & really, was no colour difference.
DF.... That stone charmed you with the 55 table didn't it?! Lol. I've had 56 but not this small. I suspect I'll like it too.
Click to expand...
 
ccuheartnurse said:
SimoneDi, thank you for the link. Brian's stones are beautifully cut. I have tried to find one on his site for some time. Bottom line, his pricing is higher. The stone he has listed is $3500 more than the wire price for the WF stone I'm considering. My intent is to upgrade my stone at some point in time, & WF has a pretty hassle free kind of upgrade policy.
Click to expand...

Makes sense. I have been lucky to purchase my BGD stones when they run specials and then the pricing has always been lower compared to WF, but I totally understand where you are coming from. The WF stone looks to be an excellent choice, the flouro will definitely help the color and I believe that is apparent in the comparison photo. When it comes to upgrading, I don't think you can find a better upgrade policy than WFs and it will definitely make future purchases a lot easier. Good luck with your selection!
 
Just got an update from WF regarding the stone as I had asked them to re-submit it to AGS.

"Your diamond was sent back to the AGS for re-check, which confirmed the most recent scan and measurements are accurate.
During the six year period since the original scan, Sarine has made incremental improvement in the device’s accuracy. We hope this eases your concern."

It doesn't really ease my concern. Maybe the 40.9 is too deep with the 34.6. I know I'm splitting hairs now.

flyingpig, any thoughts? Guess it wasn't tilted after all.
 
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