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Thoughts on I1 diamond

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sarah95

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Jul 10, 2008
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Hello everyone! I''m a newbie and looking forward to learning from all the wonderful and knowledgeable people here. I only know the basics about diamonds (the 4 C''s....and what they mean), but I hope I can eventually gain a better understanding of them and help contribute as well. :)

My boyfriend and I are looking for an engagement ring and came across one that seems interesting. We''re looking for a round solitaire between 3.50-3.99 carats, G/H in color and VS2/SI1 in clarity. A friend of a friend who is a diamond wholesaler has shown us a couple rings, but we haven''t found anything that''s "the one" yet. Earlier this week, she showed us a 5.23 ct, H color, I1, ideal cut ring. I don''t have the table/depth percentages with me, but when I get those numbers I will update this thread. It''s graded by UGL, so on the one hand, I feel like the specs don''t mean anything since I know they aren''t as reliable as GIA. But specs aside, I looked at the ring with an open mind to see if it made my heart sing. My observations are that it''s a nice white color (I''m color sensitive and I don''t pick up on any yellow in the diamond), there are two small white clouds on two edges of the diamonds, which would be covered by prongs, no black spots, but if I really look at the diamond up close from the top(with the naked eye) I can see some tiny white spots and hairline scratches. These imperfections aren''t visible from 10 inches+ away, but they are if looked at up close. The ring is priced at $26,500.

While I love the carat size of the ring (my hands are on the large side and while 5cts. looks huge on most womens hands it actually looks proportionate on mine), I''m not sure about buying an I1 ring. It has sparkle to it, but not as much as the beautiful (and oh so expensive) Tiffany diamonds I''ve looked at recently. So, I''m just wondering, if anyone here would consider buying an I1 ring? I can''t seem to figure out if it''s a good deal for the price, or if I would be buying a worthless drill bit. This is a big purchase for us, and we want to make sure we not only get a good deal, but that we get it right.

Sorry this is so long, but I would love any and all input. Thank you everyone.
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Welcome Sarah!

I take it this is a round diamond you are looking at? Also just wanted to mention a wholesaler doesn't sell to the public, although some do seem to use this term. As to an I1 diamond, personally I have no problem at all with that, I own 2 sizeable I1's myself, but in a stone that large the chances are not good that it will be eyeclean. Make sure when you next look at this diamond, that you can check it out away from the store lights, as often inclusions may not be visible in some lights, but can pop out in others. 26k is also incredibly cheap for a diamond of this size and from what you describe it is likely the cut quality isn't the best....

I would really recommend you look at smaller AGS or GIA graded diamonds with a superb cut, that will get you the beauty you want - the all important cut quality. You can still consider lower clarity grades, with a good cut the diamond will still be gorgeous and sparkly, some SI2 and even the occasional I1 can be eyeclean or close to it even in the larger sizes. But if you are certain you want this 5 carater, I would strongly recommend you make the sale final ( get it in writing) on this diamond checking out with an independant appraisal, and to check for possible durability issues. I think your gut is telling you what the right decision is by the sound of it, better a smaller and beautifully cut stone that will shine and sparkle than a possibly included and dull looking large diamond.

I know you said you were colour sensitive, but bear in mind a great cut will help a diamond face up a bit whiter in some cases, I would rather have something like this diamond for the budget.

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-906725.htm#
 
I wouldn''t recommend buying an ideal cut diamond with I1 clarity. Honestly you''re going to get a large diamond with 3+ carets and just in case you want to trade it in in the future you won''t make as much back with the ideal and I1 as you would with a slightly less than ideal cut but SI2 or better clarity. For a large stone you want to bump up to a higher clarity grade, while making sure the color is nice as well. Lots of people make the mistake of "going bigger" and getting a huge 3+ caret stone and then when they compare it to another diamond ring the color is totally yellow. This tends to look really tacky, so if you go big definitely make sure all your specs are within a good range, and keep trade in value in mind because you never know if you want to re-set the stone or upgrade etc for an anniversary or something. I work for a diamond dealer in NYC and he won''t even consider trying to buy/or sell rings within the I clarity range, and diamonds wear over time so the clarity quality is only going to decrease over time.

I hope this helps.

-Nicole
 
Date: 7/10/2008 1:01:53 PM
Author: DiamondsNYC
I wouldn't recommend buying an ideal cut diamond with I1 clarity. Honestly you're going to get a large diamond with 3+ carets and just in case you want to trade it in in the future you won't make as much back with the ideal and I1 as you would with a slightly less than ideal cut but SI2 or better clarity. For a large stone you want to bump up to a higher clarity grade, while making sure the color is nice as well. Lots of people make the mistake of 'going bigger' and getting a huge 3+ caret stone and then when they compare it to another diamond ring the color is totally yellow. This tends to look really tacky, so if you go big definitely make sure all your specs are within a good range, and keep trade in value in mind because you never know if you want to re-set the stone or upgrade etc for an anniversary or something. I work for a diamond dealer in NYC and he won't even consider trying to buy/or sell rings within the I clarity range, and diamonds wear over time so the clarity quality is only going to decrease over time.

I hope this helps.

-Nicole
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Welcome to Pricescope Nicole!

Just wanted to point out, I have a diamond of that size with a lower colour grade which isn't in any way yellow or tacky
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, some here do even prefer the warmer colour grades - we are all about the cut here and have seen time and time again how a great cut can show off any colour grade to it's best advantage. Also trade in value for most diamonds isn't good, so it is best if upgrading is ever a consideration, to go with a vendor who offers a lifetime upgrade policy which has proved so popular with many - and also it is always a good decision to go with a diamond which has the best cut you can find.
 
Thank you for your input Lorelei and Nicole. Lorelei, I think we''re on the same page...I know in my gut that I should go down in size and focus on cut. I''m so glad I signed up with Pricescope...I needed to hear more voices of reason.
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From your experience, can an SI1 or SI2 diamond be eyeclean if it has an excellent cut? I''ve seen a couple SI2s that have black spots visible, but I wonder if they become less obvious with a better cut.

Nicole, I''ve also read & heard people say that it''s important to go up in clarity in 3+cts. I think you''re right. I wasn''t originally planning on an I1, but this 5ct. just happened to pop up. I''m going to turn the ring down and look for something better. I was told by the seller that if anytime in the future I decide to upgrade, she would buy the diamond back for what I paid. But, it seems like this diamond isn''t worth the money to begin with.

Thank you again!!
 
Date: 7/10/2008 1:32:56 PM
Author: sarah95
Thank you for your input Lorelei and Nicole. Lorelei, I think we're on the same page...I know in my gut that I should go down in size and focus on cut. I'm so glad I signed up with Pricescope...I needed to hear more voices of reason.
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From your experience, can an SI1 or SI2 diamond be eyeclean if it has an excellent cut? I've seen a couple SI2s that have black spots visible, but I wonder if they become less obvious with a better cut.

Nicole, I've also read & heard people say that it's important to go up in clarity in 3+cts. I think you're right. I wasn't originally planning on an I1, but this 5ct. just happened to pop up. I'm going to turn the ring down and look for something better. I was told by the seller that if anytime in the future I decide to upgrade, she would buy the diamond back for what I paid. But, it seems like this diamond isn't worth the money to begin with.

Thank you again!!
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Sarah, there are indeed SI1 and even SI2 diamonds which are eyeclean with very happy owners! You need to decide what your comfort level is, as the larger the diamond, the chances increase that the stone may not be eyeclean. Some in the industry go by eyeclean as being - no inclusions visible face up with normal vision in normal light at a distance of 10 - 12 inches, or words to that effect. This means that some diamonds may not be eyeclean at very close scrutiny or from all angles. So if you are looking at a larger diamond, it may take a bit of patience to find one which is eyeclean to your standards in these clarity grades, but it is best to either be able to see for yourself, or work with a vendor who can check out the diamond for you. But we do have some ladies here who have over 2 carat SI2 clarity graded diamonds which are completely eyeclean, so it isn't an impossibility! Also the two top labs are GIA and AGS, so I would look at diamonds which have been graded by these labs.

Also SI clarities are not created equal, some may have dark inclusions which are visible, some may have transparent or light coloured inclusions which may be less visible, so the colour, type, location and size of the inclusions are important to consider.

This thread might help you - https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/clarity-eye-clean-definition-interpretation-and-taste.30483/
 
For your budget you can get an awesome *sizeable* stone of extraordinary quality. An I1 stone, while it might be eye clean, will never qualify as extraordinary. To me, anything over 1.5 carats is large, and a finger no more than 2/3 covered looks more classy than going for the biggest thing you can get. Take your time and check out some pricescope photos of different size diamonds shown on the hand to see what looks most appealing to YOU. Plenty of members have humongous rings and think they are amazing (and get plenty of compliments from members who agree wholeheartedly). On the other hand, there are plenty more examples of rings in smaller sizes that are elegant and refined, with just as many admirers. Whatever you chose, just know that you are fortunate to have such a generous budget, and don''t squander it on anything less than the best!
 
Date: 7/10/2008 2:02:10 PM
Author: RxTechRN2b
For your budget you can get an awesome *sizeable* stone of extraordinary quality. An I1 stone, while it might be eye clean, will never qualify as extraordinary. To me, anything over 1.5 carats is large, and a finger no more than 2/3 covered looks more classy than going for the biggest thing you can get. Take your time and check out some pricescope photos of different size diamonds shown on the hand to see what looks most appealing to YOU. Plenty of members have humongous rings and think they are amazing (and get plenty of compliments from members who agree wholeheartedly). On the other hand, there are plenty more examples of rings in smaller sizes that are elegant and refined, with just as many admirers. Whatever you chose, just know that you are fortunate to have such a generous budget, and don't squander it on anything less than the best!
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Just FYI, there are some very happy I1 owners here, myself included, and we feel our I1 diamonds are pretty extraordinary actually!
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It was also very important to me to go for the biggest diamond I could get - it is a matter of preference. There can be a world of difference between a carefully selected and well cut I1 compared to some you see.
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The sparkliness you are referring to has much more to do with the cut of the stone, although a heap of inclusions in an I1 could be having an effect too. A well stone will sparkle way more than a poorly cut stone anyway.

I would be very very wary of buying through a friend of a friend - do a quick search here and you will find that 99.9% of the time it doesn''t go well, and you are likely to get a much better stone online. And just a note, a wholesaler isn''t a wholesaler if he sells to the public, it''s just a marketing gimic to think you are getting a better deal.

The price too worries me - a well cut stone in that size just isn''t possible for that price IMO, even for a ''wholesaler'', this should set alarm bell ringing!
 
There are two comments in your initial post that send up red flags, and surprisingly enough neither of them is I1.

"A friend of a friend who is a diamond wholesaler" and "It''s graded by UGL"

First of all we''ve never seen a successful result from any post that had anything to do with friends in the industry or so-called wholesaler''s selling as a favor. Seriously I can''t think of one.

Secondly, EGL is considered less accurate than GIA or AGS or HRD, but UGL is a third tier lab at best.

As to I1, if you are content with the clarity that is all that matters. There are many SI2, and I''m sure at least some I1 stones that are eyecleanish.
 
$26,500 will buy you a nice H VS2 2.25 ct, but not a 5+ct.
 
I was always under the impression that when you get into the I1-I2 clarities, that the inclusions will affect light return and possibly even structural stability of the stone. Also, a larger stone is less forgiving than a smaller one in revealing the inclusions. Ijust think that if I had as much money the budget in this thread, I would go for a VS1-VS2 or SI1 at the very lowest. My previous post tried to say that a large percentage of people do want the biggest stone they can get and that would be the preference of the person who will wear it. I just would not sacrifice clarity to the lowest grade category on the scale, just for the sake of size! With that healthy budget you can still get a sizeable diamond of better quality. But like the previous advisor states, if you are content with an I1, that''s all that matters. Get what you want!
 
Just checking back in....thank you everyone for your replies. I really appreciate all the help.

Lynn, your ring is gorgeous!! It''s just mesmerizing. I can''t believe it''s an SI2!! Truly beautiful.

I am just as uncomfortable with UGL as everyone else here. I don''t trust the specs. I think I may have used the wrong term for the woman who is selling me the diamond. She sells stones from Israel to retailers. Maybe broker is the right term. Normally I would be very wary of someone like this, but I know other women who have purchased diamonds from her and are very happy with their stones & jewelry. My good friend purchased a GIA 6.13 emerald cut, I/VS2 or SI1 (eyeclean, but I can''t remember the clarity at the moment)for $36,000 about 2 years ago from her. It''s a beautiful stone. I checked out my references first.
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Fortunately, she also has GIA and (maybe unfortunately) EGL stones as well. So I will start from scratch searching through her and the internet as well. Lynn, your pictures really helped to show me how good an SI2 stone can look. Thank you for linking me to your pictures.
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I think you have to buy with your eyes. I am now wearing my EGL I, SI2 and it''s absolutely gorgeous. A lot of posters on this site would have had me run from this diamond based on the information that I was able to give them. I took the information they gave me and held on to it, while studying and studying the stone. In the end, I am extremely happy that I bought this great diamond at a terrific price.

If you trust this woman, like what you see in the diamond and like the price, then maybe it deserves a second look.

I know this is such a big decision; good luck to you!
 
Luvstheflash, I was just admiring your ring. Another beautiful SI2! I''m going to continue looking and see if I can find a nice SI1/SI2. Thanks for your help. :)
 
ask her to show you some GIA stones then post the specs here. believe me....there''re NO Santa Claus in the diamond business.
 
Date: 7/10/2008 7:25:27 PM
Author: RxTechRN2b
I was always under the impression that when you get into the I1-I2 clarities, that the inclusions will affect light return and possibly even structural stability of the stone. Also, a larger stone is less forgiving than a smaller one in revealing the inclusions. Ijust think that if I had as much money the budget in this thread, I would go for a VS1-VS2 or SI1 at the very lowest. My previous post tried to say that a large percentage of people do want the biggest stone they can get and that would be the preference of the person who will wear it. I just would not sacrifice clarity to the lowest grade category on the scale, just for the sake of size! With that healthy budget you can still get a sizeable diamond of better quality. But like the previous advisor states, if you are content with an I1, that's all that matters. Get what you want!
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Not necessarily the case that I1 inclusions will affect light return or have durability issues. For example, Wink sometimes has some incredible I1's with excellent cuts.
 
Lorelei, I''m happy for you that you found a large diamond in the lower color/clarity grades that is extraordinary to you. I''m sure it is very beautiful, just as I''m sure there are some rare exceptions to the quality of I1 stones. In fact, if my budget would not allow me to purchase a stone greater than 0.75 carats, then I would search out that exceptional I1 as well! But -- if I had nearly $30,000 to blow on a diamond, I''m just saying that I wouldn''t choose an I1.
 
Date: 7/10/2008 7:40:16 PM
Author: sarah95

Lynn, your ring is gorgeous!! It''s just mesmerizing. I can''t believe it''s an SI2!! Truly beautiful.

... Lynn, your pictures really helped to show me how good an SI2 stone can look. Thank you for linking me to your pictures.
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Sarah,

You''re quite welcome. I am always happy to show it off and let other posters see what a killer cut can do. The diamond is a knock-out, and I get compliments almost every day.

I''m 100% thrilled with it... I just wish it was BIGGER!!!
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I went to take another look at the ring I mentioned in my original post and took some pics. I hate to be an annoying newbie, but I''m so technologically challenged that I can''t get my pics to post. If there is any way for me to email them to a member and have a member post them, I can do that. I looked at it in daylight (it was cloudy & rainy today) and it seemed to sparkle, but my eyes are transfixed on the inclusions. The inclusions are white, there are no black spots, but after reading many posts on this board, I wonder if I''ve been looking at "frozen spit."
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If you can see them with your eye, that''s not pretty IMO. White or carbon, you really don''t have to settle for a diamond that has inclusions that are that easily noticed.

There ARE SI1 and SI2 stones that are completely eye clean. Mine is SI2 and you can''t see a thing without a 10x loupe.
 
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