Thoughts on 3.3 ct RB?

[jgny]

Would welcome your thoughts!!!

Color is D, clarity is VS2. No GIA cert, but I would have it appraised before buying it. What would a fair price be?

Holloway Cut Adviser
Selected: 61.4% depth, 55% table, 34.1° crown angle, 43.3% pavilion, 0% culet
The result is for a symmetrical diamond with a medium girdle and very good polish

Factor Grade
Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Excellent
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 1.2 - Excellent
within TIC range

 

[yssie]

Honestly.. I would suspect something fishy.



A D VS2 in that size, with a reputable cert (GIA/AGS in the US), would command a HUGE premium over one without. The numbers look good, which the jeweller clearly knows, so it would not only be a certed diamond - it would be a certed diamond with an excellent cut grade.



So... what is he not telling you?



ETA: your indep appraiser will point out whatever it is, if there is anything. What is the asking price?

 

[jgny]

Yssie - it''s a resale stone, from one of the name companies that does not do GIA. I think one of the factors would be the medium fluoro.

 

[kristie]

Hmmmmmm strange......can you tell us what the price is? That may also shed some light. That diamond would command a HUGE premium if it had an AGS or GIA report....something smells off.....

 

[jgny]

hi kristie - you must be looking forward to celebrating this w/e!

price is 75K.

 

[yssie]

Oh!

. I confess, I was expecting you to say 30k or something.



BN has a 3.32 D VS2 GIA Ex for 90k.

 

[jgny]

Didn't think to check BN, thanks - looked thru "search by cut" and the closest I found was a 3.091 ct G VS1 AGS for $84K.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 3/5/2010 12:30:26 AM
Author: yssie
Honestly.. I would suspect something fishy.



A D VS2 in that size, with a reputable cert (GIA/AGS in the US), would command a HUGE premium over one without. The numbers look good, which the jeweller clearly knows, so it would not only be a certed diamond - it would be a certed diamond with an excellent cut grade.



So... what is he not telling you?



ETA: your indep appraiser will point out whatever it is, if there is anything. What is the asking price?

yep!! and i can smell it here in Ca.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 3/5/2010 12:32:56 AM
Author: jgny
Yssie - it''s a resale stone, from one of the name companies that does not do GIA. I think one of the factors would be the medium fluoro.

tell them you''ll pay for the grading fee.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 3/5/2010 12:16:26 AM
Author:jgny
Would welcome your thoughts!!!

Color is D, clarity is VS2. No GIA cert, but I would have it appraised before buying it. What would a fair price be?

Holloway Cut Adviser
Selected: 61.4% depth, 55% table, 34.1° crown angle, 43.3% pavilion, 0% culet
The result is for a symmetrical diamond with a medium girdle and very good polish

Factor Grade
Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Excellent
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 1.2 - Excellent
within TIC range

i''m confused

with no lab report where did these "specs" come from??

 

[jgny]

Date: 3/5/2010 1:25:32 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 3/5/2010 12:30:26 AM
Author: yssie
Honestly.. I would suspect something fishy.



A D VS2 in that size, with a reputable cert (GIA/AGS in the US), would command a HUGE premium over one without. The numbers look good, which the jeweller clearly knows, so it would not only be a certed diamond - it would be a certed diamond with an excellent cut grade.



So... what is he not telling you?



ETA: your indep appraiser will point out whatever it is, if there is anything. What is the asking price?

yep!! and i can smell it here in Ca.

Really? It''s not a new ring, it''s actually a secondhand one. It''s got all the original paperwork. I would think that it would be less than the "going" rate for similar diamonds on the market because it''s a resale. We all know that you can''t sell a diamond for what you paid for it...

 

[jgny]

From where the person originally purchased it. The store does not issue GIA, but I would have this appraised and graded on my dime.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 3/5/2010 1:33:44 AM
Author: jgny

Date: 3/5/2010 1:25:32 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 3/5/2010 12:30:26 AM
Author: yssie
Honestly.. I would suspect something fishy.

A D VS2 in that size, with a reputable cert (GIA/AGS in the US), would command a HUGE premium over one without. The numbers look good, which the jeweller clearly knows, so it would not only be a certed diamond - it would be a certed diamond with an excellent cut grade.

So... what is he not telling you?


ETA: your indep appraiser will point out whatever it is, if there is anything. What is the asking price?

yep!! and i can smell it here in Ca.

Really? It''s not a new ring, it''s actually a secondhand one. It''s got all the original paperwork. I would think that it would be less than the ''going'' rate for similar diamonds on the market because it''s a resale. We all know that you can''t sell a diamond for what you paid for it...

from whom/where?? they''re asking $75K?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 3/5/2010 1:35:16 AM
Author: jgny
From where the person originally purchased it. The store does not issue GIA, but I would have this appraised and graded on my dime.

only GIA labs can issue a GIA report.one is in N.Y. and one is in Ca.

 

[kristie]

I would definitely tell the seller that if they send it to GIA, you will pay for the grading IF it matches or comes close to what they are claiming it is.

Personally, I would never buy an a stone that was $75k that had no GIA or AGS report. Almost 100% of the time, there is a reason why it was never sent to the lab.......ESPECIALLY on such a huge stone that is D/VS2?? I would have serious major doubts over this stone. Justs because it has medium fluor does not mean that it would be worth such a low amount that it would not be sent to GIA......something is dreadfully wrong with this whole scenario.....

Most vendors, even ones that are reselling an uncerted stone, will send it to GIA if it REALLY is what they say it is. Their turnaround time is very fast right now.

I am guessing it is really an I1, not a VS2

OR, WORST case scenario *gasp*.....it is fracture filled or laser drilled, therefore, GIA and AGS won't touch it.

Sorry, me the cynic now

Who exactly is selling this diamond? An individual person? Ebay? A B&M store?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/5/2010 1:35:16 AM
Author: jgny
From where the person originally purchased it. The store does not issue GIA, but I would have this appraised and graded on my dime.

If you could do this without having to buy the diamond and if you are willing to risk the money to do so and are ok with it if the stone doesn''t check out, then its an option.

 

[stone-cold11]

sounds like a second hand tiffany?

definitely get it check out by an independent appraiser.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/5/2010 5:09:08 AM
Author: Stone-cold11
sounds like a second hand tiffany?

definitely get it check out by an independent appraiser.

I was thinking the same due to the pavilion depth percentage.

 

[jgny]

Kristie - you deserve to be a cynic after what you've gone through!

Stone Cold and Lorelei - OMG you guys are good!!! It's a secondhand Tiffany, with all papers. With what I have been through, I'm thinking the best option for me would be buying a resale from the name jewelers - Tiffany, Graff, Winston, Cartier. With the dynamics of the resale market, it's likely equal or less I would pay "retail" for a non branded stone and for me, the designer name would help the mind-clean factor. Plus, if I ever needed to resell, there would be more of a market. I'm going to see if the seller is willing to send it to GIA and if all checks out I'll figure it out from there.

On a broader note, is there a "rule of thumb" when it comes to valuing these designer rings? It seems to me like it is approx. 60% of original retail. For example, a recent Tiffany 2.02 ct H VS1 /VS2 ring on eBay went for $26K, 63% of its original purchase price of $41.4K.

A search for similar diamonds on Blue Nile yields this one for $22K.

 

[jgny]

Another example, this 3.16 G VS1 EC from Tiffany is asking $65K, 62% of its original purchase price of $105K.

I can't seem to find a good non branded comp for this one.

 

[stone-cold11]

not really rule of thumb but the best you can get selling back to the jeweler is below 50%, if you are lucky, unless they have a buy back policy, so anything above that is better for the seller.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/5/2010 8:02:13 AM
Author: jgny
Kristie - you deserve to be a cynic after what you've gone through!

Stone Cold and Lorelei - OMG you guys are good!!! It's a secondhand Tiffany, with all papers. With what I have been through, I'm thinking the best option for me would be buying a resale from the name jewelers - Tiffany, Graff, Winston, Cartier. With the dynamics of the resale market, it's likely equal or less I would pay 'retail' for a non branded stone and for me, the designer name would help the mind-clean factor. Plus, if I ever needed to resell, there would be more of a market. I'm going to see if the seller is willing to send it to GIA and if all checks out I'll figure it out from there.

On a broader note, is there a 'rule of thumb' when it comes to valuing these designer rings? It seems to me like it is approx. 60% of original retail. For example, a recent Tiffany 2.02 ct H VS1 /VS2 ring on eBay went for $26K, 63% of its original purchase price of $41.4K.

A search for similar diamonds on Blue Nile yields this one for $22K.

The pavilion depth % is a big clue as Tiffany always grade that way so its fairly easy to spot a Tiffany just from that if you do this for a while.

 

[Laila619]

My own rule of thumb: if it''s too good to be true, it probably is.

 

[Bosie]

Have it appraised on your dime before you fork over that kind of money.

 

[jgny]

Date: 3/5/2010 9:38:17 AM
Author: Laila619
My own rule of thumb: if it''s too good to be true, it probably is.

I agree. That''s why if it was $30K, I would have run the other way! But the pricing seems to be a bit on the high side for a resale (65% of original price). I don''t think this is a case of too good to be true (assuming GIA and appraisal confirm what the stone is).

 

[bgray]

Date: 3/5/2010 9:02:30 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 3/5/2010 8:02:13 AM

Author: jgny

Kristie - you deserve to be a cynic after what you''ve gone through!

Stone Cold and Lorelei - OMG you guys are good!!! It''s a secondhand Tiffany, with all papers. With what I have been through, I''m thinking the best option for me would be buying a resale from the name jewelers - Tiffany, Graff, Winston, Cartier. With the dynamics of the resale market, it''s likely equal or less I would pay ''retail'' for a non branded stone and for me, the designer name would help the mind-clean factor. Plus, if I ever needed to resell, there would be more of a market. I''m going to see if the seller is willing to send it to GIA and if all checks out I''ll figure it out from there.


On a broader note, is there a ''rule of thumb'' when it comes to valuing these designer rings? It seems to me like it is approx. 60% of original retail. For example, a recent Tiffany 2.02 ct H VS1 /VS2 ring on eBay went for $26K, 63% of its original purchase price of $41.4K.


A search for similar diamonds on Blue Nile yields this one for $22K.

The pavilion depth % is a big clue as Tiffany always grade that way so its fairly easy to spot a Tiffany just from that if you do this for a while.

Lorelei--can you explain this a bit more?

 

[kristie]

Ah, it is from Tiffany......ok that all makes sense now.......I thought it was just some random diamond that was uncertified and some random person selling it.

I would still look into the pricing some more, but if you feel comfortable taking for a full appraisal vs. sending it to GIA, go for it.

I would still have it sent to GIA prior to purchase, but that is just me being freaky

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/5/2010 10:45:49 AM
Author: bgray

Date: 3/5/2010 9:02:30 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 3/5/2010 8:02:13 AM

Author: jgny

Kristie - you deserve to be a cynic after what you've gone through!

Stone Cold and Lorelei - OMG you guys are good!!! It's a secondhand Tiffany, with all papers. With what I have been through, I'm thinking the best option for me would be buying a resale from the name jewelers - Tiffany, Graff, Winston, Cartier. With the dynamics of the resale market, it's likely equal or less I would pay 'retail' for a non branded stone and for me, the designer name would help the mind-clean factor. Plus, if I ever needed to resell, there would be more of a market. I'm going to see if the seller is willing to send it to GIA and if all checks out I'll figure it out from there.


On a broader note, is there a 'rule of thumb' when it comes to valuing these designer rings? It seems to me like it is approx. 60% of original retail. For example, a recent Tiffany 2.02 ct H VS1 /VS2 ring on eBay went for $26K, 63% of its original purchase price of $41.4K.


A search for similar diamonds on Blue Nile yields this one for $22K.

The pavilion depth % is a big clue as Tiffany always grade that way so its fairly easy to spot a Tiffany just from that if you do this for a while.

Lorelei--can you explain this a bit more?

I would be pleased to Bgray!

Normally most diamonds we see here have the pavilion angle provided, Tiffany normally use the pavilion depth percentage, this in itself is a clue that it is a Tiffany stone, or it can be HRD as I believe they use pavilion depth also, one of the experts might be able to clarify this. But as no report was mentioned, this made me inclined to think it was a Tiffany.

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 3/5/2010 10:45:49 AM
Author: bgray
Lorelei--can you explain this a bit more?

Tiffany report only crown angle and pavilion depth. Also Tiffany no longer send any of their stones to be graded by other labs, so this 2 clues make me guess it is a second hand Tiffany stone.