this may sound weird to guy''s but i have no idea .....

[Dancing Fire]

what my wife''s annual income is

she keeps it a secret. when i ask ,she say "don''t worry about it" and i just ......LOL

 

[jadeleaves]

don''t worry you are not alone - mine is in the same boat as you

 

[Momoftwo]

I would guess you don''t combine your incomes. My DH and I have been married 24 years and there was never any question about that. We''ve always combined it for the years I''ve worked (off 14 yrs to raise our kids), I know his income, he knows mine and we have access to everything for each other as well as powers of attorney. That''s total trust and commitment.

So, my question, is why with the person you are supposed to totally trust with everything would you keep your income a secret from? So you can''t be questioned about anything you spend? My DH only questions if I spend a huge amount without consulting him, not asking permission, just talking about it first. The funny thing is if you ever divorce, the other person will know all of your financial info.

 

[jadeleaves]

Date: 4/12/2005 6:59:37 AM
Author: Momoftwo
So, my question, is why with the person you are supposed to totally trust with everything would you keep your income a secret from? So you can''t be questioned about anything you spend? My DH only questions if I spend a huge amount without consulting him, not asking permission, just talking about it first. The funny thing is if you ever divorce, the other person will know all of your financial info.

It''s not a matter of not trusting them - he didn''t ask. I pull my weight with regards to mortgage and household bills and we each have a ''fun'' account for things we want to splurge on. We have an understanding that big purchases needs to be discussed first.

 

[bar01]

I believe having seperate accounts (checking, credit cards, etc). I know her salary and she knows mine. This is necessary for many reasons (like doing taxes) but mainly because we will split bills based on percentages of household income (i.e. if she brings in 30% of household income – she pays 30% of bills). Every month we will fill out a spreadsheet with all the bills and total them up and the percentage each owes. Also keeps track of spending trends.

This works well as a general guideline (not a rigid rule) since we are both working professionals at this time. Beyond major bills and significant purchases I don’t monitor or control her spending - or she mine.

 

[Logan Sapphire]

My husband and I know exactly what the other makes. Of course, since we both work for the federal government, all of America is able to find out exactly what we make! We have joint checking and savings, and small individual savings accounts. He is not on my TSP or IRA, but he is the beneficiary.

In my opinion, knowing the other person's income is important when trying to buy a house, or estimate and save for when we have kids, and I take time off (or quit) work. I don't really understand how you could do otherwise if incomes are secret, but I'd be interested in hearing how people make it work.

 

[Carey]

We throw it all into one (or not-so-big, depending what''s going on with our family) big ''pot'', and decide together what to do with it. We don''t make major purchases without checking in with each other - just courtesy.

 

[bar01]

Date: 4/12/2005 11

7:56 AM
Author: Feydakin
This has always baffled me.. Everything my wife and I have is joint.. It's all one big pile and we we use that pile to pay bills and have fun.. I can't imagine the potential downside to having my wife pay 60% of the bills while I pay 40% because that's how our pay breaks down.. What happens when I can't meet my 40% some month?? Or she her 60% one month, or more??

Maybe I'm still too old fashioned for some of the new math that is used in some houses..

I used this method (separate accounts and percentages) for 14 years in my first marriage, and it was one of the things that worked well in that marriage. It will be used in my upcoming one too, and is even more relevant in second/older marriages - I think. As mentioned it is a guide not a rule - it did fluctuate month to month and year to year depending on changes.

Of course each couple should do what works for them.

Edited-

Here are two interesting articles from the Sun Times/WSJ

Checking Accounts and Marriage - Article 1

Checking Accounts and Marriage - Article 2

 

[njc]

I have always found how different couples handle their accounts interesting, mostly in that im trying to figure out what to do with ours!

We know each others salery and everything is seperate and rent and bills are split by the percentage mentioned earlier. FI makes a considerable amount more than me. We are in the middle of purchasing a townhouse and everything for that is being split in half... just thought about we havent decided on how to split up the mortgage and bills, i guess the percentage again. After August, and we are married, everything will be lumped together in the one pot. Although im all for keeping small individual savings accounts (with the others name on it) for personal fun and comfort.

The only question i really have is how you started the pot. Did you throw in everything you had up to that point in? Keep what you made and then just add what you earned after you started the pot?

 

[sevens one]

It was easy for us. We started out with nothing and threw that into the pot!

 

[Mara]

sevens makes a great point, in my circles what seems to be the norm is if you get married younger, and don't really have much of anything, kind of hard to fight over 0 and what is happening with 0. so when they start making money, it's considered joint since they have been together since they started making real money..aka a pair of friends that got married in college have this view as do a few others who got married out of or soon after college.

however, our other friends who got married a bit later in life, aka maybe more like 30's...where they have established themselves in career and with a good salary, seem to be a bit more protective over their money and merging it seems much more difficult to do. aka for years it was their money, they were independent, they paid the bills and saved, and i think asking couples like that to just merge all funds and be happy with the result is alot to ask. we are one of these couples, and still really trying to figure out the best way to work it for us. so far it's a 'you pay x and i pay y' based on % salary, but within the next year we want to open up a new joint account for household expenses, we put the $$ for paying all expenses, etc into that and then we have our own separate accounts for what is left and what we want to do with it. oh and one other joint for a predetermined amount of savings--we have this now but it's very unstructured and we each have our own savings also etc. kind of a kluge.

obviously nothing is really cut and dry...when i took this new job last year and changed my career, we had to adjust things a huge amount to account for my learning curve and the differences in pay (i am 100% commission now vs having a stable marketing salary in the past!) and the ups and downs of sales etc. so we adjusted accordingly and are just now starting to reassess how things are done.

i also find couples and finances fascinating....primarily those who have merged accounts and are happy like that! again, for us it is seemingly mostly those who got married younger and were more open minded about us vs I...but we definitely are not there yet! heck, my parents are still not there even after 20+ years of marriage!

 

[aljdewey]

There is no one *right* answer...the key is finding out what works best for you.

I think in the case of many older marriages, it was more common for a couple to maintain one checkbook, etc. My parents have always had one account, but at the time they married, the norm was the husband worked (sole income) and the mom stayed home with the family. Thus, all money was deposited into the shared checking/savings accounts and that was that. When my mom went to work in our teenage years, they simply BOTH deposited into those accounts. As life got more comfortable financially, they both spent out of that account, too.

I think my generation was a bit different. I didn't marry until close to 39 years old, so I'm used to having control over my income. Similarly, Rich had gone the route of shared money in his previous marriage, and found that disagreements about money (what each other's discretional purchases were) were more frequent.

We decided to keep our separate accounts, but each of our names were added to the other's accounts, and they are linked for online banking purposes so we can easily transfer funds back and forth to each other. When I log in to banking, I can see what he has and he can see what I have.

We split the bills; I typically pay them and tell him how much his half is. We also have a joint account, so if we are saving for something specific (a home project, etc.), we can each deposit into that account. If something were to happen to my job or his job, of course, the other would step in and pick up the slack.

At the end of the day, it's all OUR money, but for us, maintaining our separate accounts for what's left after savings/bills makes us more comfortable (less guilty) with discretional spending. He doesn't have to feel guilty about spending $50 on a computer game if he wants it; I don't have to feel guilty buying a new watch (even if I have 12 others) if I want it!

I don't know if this would work well if one of us was a spendthrift and the other was a saver; by nature, we are both savers, so it works out fine for us.

I can't imagine him not knowing what I make or vice versa. I wouldn't be comfortable with the concept of keeping something like that from him. I'm in the process of trying to make sure all our financial data (life insurance, etc) is in one place so it can be readily accessed if need be.

 

[njc]

Date: 4/12/2005 11:55:20 AM
Author: sevens one
It was easy for us. We started out with nothing and threw that into the pot!

I know you are being serious, but that is too funny.

In reality we dont have much... we are a couple years out of college and honestly any individual savings we had have now gone towards the costs of the TH. I guess it doesnt matter what ends up in the pot for us, but we both agree we want a pot.

Mara - i think you are right about the age being what decides how you handle the money. My mother has a friend who remarried and they split everything 50/50... and i mean down to pennies. It drives my mothers nuts and shes told me (in the mother hint, hint type of way) that it was a silly way to do things... but she been married for 36 years (today!) and her and dad have made their pot together. She thinks a lot of things are silly.

Oh the joys of growing up and getting married! The adventure is never going to stop, is it.

 

[AmberGretchen]

Such an interesting issue and so many different viewpoints on it! My FI and I moved in together right out of college and we originally planned to have separate accounts for "fun" stuff, but we found after talking to a financial advisor and looking at our finances that that just doesn''t make sense for us. Everything goes into our joint checking to start with, and then we take out savings in pre-determined amounts for different things and put that in savings, retirement etc... accounts so it can earn some money. I suspect that even when we are both making high salaries (not the case right now, and will certainly not be the case when he is in law school) it will still be the same. I think that we communicate a lot about what is important and we spend our money accordingly and we almost never disagree about what we spend it on or how much. Similar to alj, we are both savers by nature although we both like to splurge on the same kinds of things. I agree that getting married younger probably prompts this as well as the older generation thing - my FI''s parents merge everything as well, and they got married pretty young and had very little when they started. Personally, I think that either way can work depending on the personalities of the individuals involved, but its really interesting to hear everyone''s perspectives!

 

[Hest88]

I went the opposite route. During my first marriage we maintained fairly separate accounts. This time, though, I made a leap of faith and we only have joint accounts. We both are pretty casual about who makes what and share a basic philosophy about savings and spending, so we''ve never had an argument over money. Plus, maintaining separate accounts would be just too completed for my math-challenged brain--especially during tax season!

I know other friends who do the joint and separate accounts thing, but I don''t think I know anyone who maintains completely separate accounts. I''m pretty sure no one hides their income from their spouse, though. Honestly, I find that sort of secrecy among spouses a bit...odd.

 

[codex57]

I agree with Mara. It seems the ones who got married when they were younger/less established have no problems pooling their resources. The older ones who have been working and single longer, seem to take longer in merging assets.

Me and my fiancee both graduated at the same time. So, while we both have separate checking accounts, we do have a joint money market that we use as a savings account. We know each other''s salary b/c we had to support the other while getting our first jobs and when bills need to be paid, whoever had the money had to pay them.

 

[Logan Sapphire]

For those couples who keep everything separate or who pay bills based on percentage, what happens if one of you stops working, say to take care of the kids or health reasons? How do you decide financial matters?

Keeping in mind that everyone finds a way that works for them, we personally kept our money separate before we were married, even the 6 months prior to the wedding that we lived together. I definitely felt strongly against sharing income before we got hitched.

Our small personal accounts are used for things the other has zero to little interest in. Mine mostly pays for my jewelry; Scott has used his to send money to his mom. But if someone wants an MP3 player or new clothes or anything that is reasonable for what is desired, then that comes out of joint, b/c that''s just a part of life. But really, in the end, it''s all the same money.

 

[ame]

Date: 4/12/2005 6:59:37 AM
Author: Momoftwo
So, my question, is why with the person you are supposed to totally trust with everything would you keep your income a secret from? So you can't be questioned about anything you spend?

Ding ding ding! If there was any "hiding" of such information that would be a sign to me that something fishy is going on.

Ok this line here:

Date: 4/12/2005 6:59:37 AM
Author: Momoftwo
not asking permission

To me, that's a red flag that there is a SERIOUS lack of trust, love, request and equality in the marriage. I don't EVER ask permission, nor does he. If there is a need to ask for "permission", that's a big glaring sign of an abusive and controlling relationship.

 

[bar01]

Date: 4/12/2005 1:13:26 PM
Author: Logan Sapphire
For those couples who keep everything separate or who pay bills based on percentage, what happens if one of you stops working, say to take care of the kids or health reasons? How do you decide financial matters?

That’s easy. You make 0% you pay 0%. The percentage is not fixed but continuously varies as income and obligations vary. If my gal gets laid off, or stays home for a few years with a baby, or gets sick, or has some other issue, I pick up the remainder. Conversely, if one of us gets job making a million dollars a year (I wish!) – that person is going to pay 95% of bills. But regardless of who is paying how much - decisions on all major things are equal as a couple.

We have budgeted in a way that essentially we could scrimp by on one of our incomes (mainly mine) in these types of instances (job loss, baby, health).
Also, in our case this is a second marriage for both, we are older, kids are involved, and other finanical complexities that come with being older - which make this system beneficial to us.

Lastly our accounts are electronic and she has access to mine (in case of emergency) and can pay bills and transfer funds as needed.

But each to their own

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 4/12/2005 1:24:46 PM
Author: ame

Ok this line here:

Date: 4/12/2005 6:59:37 AM
Author: Momoftwo
not asking permission

To me, that''s a red flag that there is a SERIOUS lack of trust, love, request and equality in the marriage. I don''t EVER ask permission, nor does he. If there is a need to ask for ''permission'', that''s a big glaring sign of an abusive and controlling relationship.

I think you''re taking this out of context.....she wasn''t saying she had to ask permission either.

The point IS, though, that when you are part of a "we" instead of just an "I", there does have to be more consideration given. You aren''t completely autonomous anymore, and if you continue to operate as if you were, feelings can get hurt. That''s not just about money, either. It''s about when you come/go, etc. It''s not *asking permission* so much as it is *doing a courtesy check* to see if the other person has input you should consider in your decision-making process.

I say to Rich, "Hey, I''m going to Nancy''s on Saturday - do you mind?" I don''t seriously expect him to object....and I''m not asking "permission"....but I do want to know if there is something else I''m not aware of that should take priority. With privilege comes responsibility.....I consider it a privilege to share my life with him, and with that privilege comes the responsibility of letting him know what my plans are and giving him an opportunity to give input if he has different views.

Same thing with spending.....it''s just common courtesy to run more substantial purchases by the other. I wouldn''t expect my partner to object UNLESS my spending was going to directly conflict with one of our common goals. It''s easy to understand why two people might want a bit of consensus on where the money goes.....because what each person does individually, to SOME extent, affects what they do as a unit.

Again, it''s with more substantial things. I don''t feel compelled to notify him every time I buy a new pair of jeans, but if I wanted to get a new washing machine, I''d certainly run that by him first. If I had a "jewelry kitty" going on the side, and that money was specifically for that, then I''m not sure I''d feel compelled to run that by him AS LONG AS it didn''t interfere with our goals.

We''re looking to have central air installed in our house. We also need to purchase a lawn mower. I''d also like for us to purchase patio furniture. He''s pretty focused on us putting a retaining wall near the sloped side of the driveway. Working in consensus and talking about plans to spend helps us prioritize when things will happen and in what order. My buying a new pair of jeans wouldn''t likely affect any of those plans, but if I were going to shell out $1000 for something, that likely could affect those plans. I think that''s the point being made from the "run it by your spouse" comments.

 

[lost on 5th]

what a variety of viewpoints! i personally find everyone’s varied spending and saving habits very interesting! even looking at different friends budgeting spreadsheets and the various manners personal finances are tracked... says a lot about an individual''s personality.

being a young professional with an already established system for budgeting and saving…. And my girlfriend being the same… I see the model of “one big pot” being not accepted. We each have methods for monitoring our spending and saving. (which for both of us involves a network of accounts…not the traditional checking/savings.)

however we both know each others income and financial situations (including outlook for career… she knows my expected income 10 years from now… and I know hers). Our discussions for financial matters have drifted towards. Live off my income.. (which is less) ………play and invest with hers.

 

[Logan Sapphire]

Alj, I agree with you. I don't "ask" my husband's permission, but I share my plans with him. I might say to him, "I wanted to run this 5k on Sat., just to let you know." That way he gets a heads up that I want to do the race, and he either says sure, or, don't forget, we have to do xxx that day too, so keep that in mind.

Although my jewelry fund is all mine (all mine!), I always talk over purchases with him. Again, it's not asking for permission in any way. But he's a good sounding board and I enjoy talking with him about it. Just in the same way, I enjoy discussing my bauble purchases with other friends too.

 

[jellybean]

My husband and I each have a separate stock trading account and credit cards but we mainly have one combined account which we use to pay for bills, etc. I was working full time up until I had my first child a couple of years ago, now I just work part time. All our money gets put into the joint account.

We mainly keep the separate accounts for liability purposes. Since I am a pharmacist and he''s an attorney/stockbroker, if either one of us is ever sued (and I surely hope that never happens!) we would never be completely wiped out. Yes, we each have liability insurance as well.

Oh, and he''s always known what I make since he helped me negotiate salary on my current position!

 

[noobie]

Everything is joint. When we first met I had considerably more assets on a relative basis than my wife (many times a very small amount is still not alot). We have since accumulated much more together (many times a small amount versus a very small amount). Spending, joint or individual, is not a problem. She gave up a professional career to stay home with kids by choice. I trust her with my life, so I trust her with our money. It does help that we we have the same outlook on spending.

 

[moremoremore]

Seriously, I have no idea what MY own annual income is. I get raises each year and I have no idea what I make right now LOL. That is SAD!

 

[jaysonsmom]

My husband and I have our payckecks directly deposited into a joint account for the household. We also have seperate personal accounts where we stash our bonus etc to buy each other presents. We do have access to each other''s personal accounts too, but I consider that invasion of privacy to check the balance of his personal account, and I hope he feels the same way. All our other money market, retirement, stocks, house, cars are in both our names, so I guess we''re in it for the long haul!

 

[Momoftwo]

What I did was specify that it wasn''t asking permission, just conferring, discussing, etc. Here is what I actually wrote:

My DH only questions if I spend a huge amount without consulting him, not asking permission, just talking about it first.

I think the bigger issue is why would you hide your income and why would you be comfortable with your spouse hiding theirs?

 

[fire&ice]

Hubby has to ask *me* how much his salary is. Probably because we direct deposit it. He does track his personal profit share & share of company profits.

Most everything goes in one pot. Always has. But, to point, we were relatively young. Some things legally have to be in separte names (trusts, IndividualRA, etc). I do have CD''s in my name only. I have some little savings accounts in my name. He has one CD in his name only. I handle all the finances. At this point, I had to prepare a spreadsheet w/ all accounts, etc, because hubby had no clue where all the accounts are - let alone the balances.

As far as spending, like Al, we run things by each other. Neither of us ever veiwed it as asking permission. That''s really not what a "marriage" is about. It should be a partnership & not a parent/child thing. We are both fiscally conservative; so, it''s really a non issue. In fact, we have to encourage each other to buy things for ourselves.

I have to say that rarely have disagreements over money (if ever, since I can''t recall a single argument that wasn''t jokey jokey).

 

[hoorray]

We used to keep our money separate, and split joint expenses proportionaly. We liked the theory, but it became more trouble than it was worth to figure out who owed what. After a while, we just devided the bills roughly right, and went that way, keeping our funds separate. We liked the independence, and trusted each other.

Once we retired, we pooled our money and all of our accounts, including credit cards. It took a while getting used to, and we had a few discussions that went some thing like, him: what id you buy for xxx at Williams-Sonoma? me: cranberry sauce. him $XXX! for cranberry sauce! It was a learning curve since we had never bothered to look at who spent what, on whatever.

We are much better off as far as financial management goes having finally merged our funds. We communicate about expenditures, and jointly make decisions. I''m sure we would have had more money to retire with if we had done this 15 years earlier. We would have made better investment decisions, and looked at the big picture much better. We were lucky that things went well and we are still able to be comfortable. In hindsight, having doe both, I''m a BIG fan of learning to manage money as one joint entity early in life. I think it is a key skill for a couple, and the results will be better than the separate approach.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 4/12/2005 5:42:39 AM
Author: JadeLeaves
don''t worry you are not alone - mine is in the same boat as you

Jade
well jade, i guess we''re the only 2 odd balls here.