This a good one: loose diamond...

[ferrerski]

I am in market for a loos diamond for an engagement ring.

here were my original target specs that I've been bringing to jewelers in the SF Bay Area

Round Cut
Carat: 1.52+
Color: H+
Clarity: SI1+
Cut: Excellent
Price: ~12,300

I was shown and very interested in this diamond for $11,300: https://myapps.gia.edu/ReportCheckPortal/getReportData.do?&reportno=1139567177&weight=1.72

Carat: 1.72
Color: I
Clarity: SI2
Cut: Excellent
Price: $11,300

Am I shying away too much on from color and clarity just to get the bigger diamond? It really is a beautiful stone even when compared to a G.

Thoughts?

Advance thanks!!!

 

[ferrerski]

photos taken w/ iPhone 4S in HDR mode

 

[Gypsy]

I'd pass on it. Steep Deep (do a search and you'll see what that means). https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca Here's the HCA, anything under 2 is good. Anything under three may be fine, but it's case by case basis, so we suggest an idealscope (we suggest that for under 2 as well, but it is even more necessary in the 2-3 range). Anything over 3 is not good. Yours scores very poorly. You can do much better in terms of performance. And since performance is what makes a diamond sparkle, you want it.

I like in the Bay Area, so do many Pricescopers. There are several good jewelers. If you can make a trip to Campbell to Joe Escobar Jewelers. Ask for Erik or Mia (or make an appointment). They are a great jeweler (you can do a search on them too).


Here are some recommendations:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI1-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1503035.asp I'd investigate this option. Ask Gemologist if the Medium Blue is having any negative effect, if it's not, the stone is a contender. James Allen can also provide you with an Idealscope Image which evaluates the light return on the diamond. I'd personally take this one over that other one any day of the week. Plus that's 2k in your pocket for the setting.

 

[ferrerski]

I am in SF and have been partial to the 888 Brannan St. diamond stores... do any of the stores down there get higher recommendations on this forum?

 

[ferrerski]

bump... looking for more feedback

 

[ferrerski]

Just got this reply from the jeweler...


Okay, so this company came up with it's own set of proportions that THEY BELIEVE are indicators of light performance in a Round Brilliant Cut diamond. Now just to be clear, GIA and AGS actually VIEW and GRADE light performance, scintillation, and fire BEFORE looking at the proportions of a diamond and applying their standard gradings. Gradings of light return, scintillation, and fire are used to calculate the overall Cut Grade, but they hold less weight in the calculation than the Proportions, Polish, and Symmetry. There are a lot of companies out there selling similar products, and that's what this is, a product. Notice the links at the bottom of the page leading you to retailers they work with? Each one of these companies promises that their way of grading diamonds is "The Way". One company I worked for used a similar product as a selling tool, and in my honest opinion it's nothing more than a selling tool. Each of these machines are calibrated to SELL the diamonds made by a certain cutter. Sure there are other diamonds that will fit into those proportions, but it's just a way to fool people into thinking that Company A's diamond is better than Company B's diamond, and Company B must be hiding something since they don't use this tool.
On the other hand: "GIA exists to protect all purchasers of gemstones, by providing the education, laboratory services,research, and instruments needed to accurately and objectively determine gemstone quality. A nonprofit institute, GIA's mission is to ensure the public trust in gems and jewelry by upholding the highest standards of integrity, academics, science, and professionalism through education, research, laboratory services, and instrument development. GIA attained its leadership role through decades of integrity and ingenuity, and everything we do is still driven by this mission. " (http://www.gia.edu/about-gia/index.html)
Buying a diamond based upon the GIA or AGS report in conjunction with viewing the diamond is still the best way to buy a diamond. That's how corporate diamond buyers work, and the same holds true for the public.

 

[Gypsy]

I'm not in the mood for he said she said. It's not worthwhile for me or for you. They have this diamond. They want to sell it. Of course they are not going to be happy and will discount anything that contradicts them and affects their profit. I make no money, get no kick backs and have no skin in the game. And I'm confident in my advice that the stone they have offered you is not the best you can get for the money, and that you can do better. Heck the diamond I suggested to you saved you 2k, lol. It's up to you what you want to do.

You have two options. You can trust this jeweler and what they tell you and go with their recommendations and buy that dark diamond.

Or you can use the resources on this site (Look at the top of your page there is a Knowledge Tab-- Diamond Guide-- then Start with Diamond Cut) and educate yourself and learn what you need to know so that you can rely on your OWN self, and so that when you spend several thousands of dollars it can be with confidence and education backing you up.

You want the best tool for your shopping experience? Buy an idealscope and learn how to use it. It costs a measy 25 bucks and will be a nice independent verification tool. I GUARANTEE you that if you scope that diamond you will find that it is not a good performer.

But first... do your research and find out what an idealscope is.

A few hours of study and you'll be much better off.

 

[distracts]

Listen to Gypsy. She's very good at evaluating diamonds.

 

[Laughinggravy0]

ferreski mate, you know, if you want independent advice from people who know their onions you are really, truly in the right place. It's big bucks: read up a little, thousands saved, better diamond bought, delighted recipient (if its for someone else that is). No brainer.

If you are here for people to say: 'great choice, fab diamond' when they have good reason not to think that, you're in the wrong place.

People want help you because they think that's why you came. Is it a question you are genuinely asking, or a quest for confirmation that the stone in your shot is fab?

Ed to add: your title is "This is a good one", do you mean "Is this a good one?" ?

 

[ferrerski]

I'm going to back to the jeweler today to view the diamond through the idealscope AND will be viewing other diamonds from other vendors in the area.

All of this insight is VERY helpful.

Honestly, I was hoping that this diamond would get the thumbs up from this forum, but since it very strongly didn't, my search continues.

@ luaghinggravy - yes, I meant "is this a good one?"

 

[Gypsy]

Most jewelers do not have idealscopes (also called firescopes) and that's for good reason. They want you to rely on them, instead of on an impartial tool that may illuminate issues they'd rather you didn't know about.

A hearts and arrows viewer is not an idealscope. Patterning is not the same as light return. Neither is precision faceting or cutting. Light return is just that. A diamond with perfectly precise hearts and arrows patterning can have diminished light return. A diamond with wonky arrows and hearts can have ideal light return.

An ASET is not as good as an idealscope for round brilliants, BUT it is better than nothing. If you can look at AGS 0 diamonds do so. Gia EX is a starting point on the journey. Not a destination. The catagory can be too broad so run the numbers through the HCA or get an idealscope (of course we recommend doing both) image/view and judge the light return of the stone.

Anyone who tried to bully you into an immediate or even 24 hour purchase is not okay. Pressuring you into a sale is a no-no and should raise flags for you. If you like what you see but dislike the sales person ask to speak to a manager and tell them that you are a serious buyer, but conservative with big purchases and high pressure sales tactics are counter productive. They should accommodate you from there .

Make sure you see any diamond you want to buy all smudged up and in lots of different types of light. Put a little hand lotion on before you go into a store. Then handle the diamond making sure you rub the oils across the table and the pavilion. When on the hand diamonds are rare perfectly clean and so viewing them loose and spotless isn't as good as viewing them a bit smudged up. I prefer stores that have great natural light (Joe Escobar is great for this) and also good spot lights. Any time you want should be viewed under the jewelers lights (notice how it washes out colors making J's and D's look similar), then away from them with your hand over the diamond to see how it deals with obstructed light. Then in sunlight. Then with your hand over it or in the shade (but away from lights). Walk it around the store and observe what you are seeing. Tilt it and move it (they should put it in a holder that will allow you to do this for you).