Thinking of making a purchase - what do you think?

[Carats]

1.70 Round Brilliant
EGL
7.64-7.60 x 4.77 mm

VS1, H
Fluoro: Moderate Blue

Depth: 62.6%
Width: 57%
Crown Height: 15%
Pavilion Depth: 44%
Girdle: Medium, faceted

Polish: Very Good
Sym: Very Good
Cutlet: None


In terms of inclusions, there is one small line at the bottom half which one can absolutely not see looking at it face up, much less with a loop.

How much should I be happy paying for this stone? What would be a bargain? Is this a good stone overall? Should I be concerned about anything? The stone *looked* (face value) good to me (but who knows)...

 

[avlis]

i think that "line" you are seeing is actually the reflection of the girdle in the pavilion, not an inclusion. i like the medium flouro with the H color. of course the EGL tag slightly make me raise an eyebrow. also the HCA doesn''t like it much with a 4.6. "4.6 - Good - Only if price is your main criterion"

as for how much you should be happy with paying for that stone.. well..

i would take THIS H VS1 at $14k. it is perfectly cut, scores a "1.2 - Excellent within TIC range" on the HCA, and its a GIA cert from GoG which means great service and lifetime trade up, and although it is slightly lighter that the stone you have listed, it is the same diameter.

 

[Carats]

Any other comments/opinions? I need to make a decision about this pretty soon.

Why does it rate it only as a "good"?

 

[Regular Guy]

Carats,

Tough call. Avlis has done the analysis for you...but you''d pay probably a 50% premium to get his. But...it''s probably apples & oranges for color & clarity, not to mention the important cut (for which that premium is inversely intuitively more modest).

Your comps put this at $9200, give or take $700.

Bottom line, whichever option you choose, EGL or non...no reason not to get one that scores well on the HCA, as you cohort cblankesj was able to find.

The one you found can be OK...but why not ask them to bring in one that scores well, and compare? They''re not hard to find.

 

[Carats]

Date: 7/6/2007 1:02:30 PM
Author: Regular Guy
Carats,

Tough call. Avlis has done the analysis for you...but you''d pay probably a 50% premium to get his. But...it''s probably apples & oranges for color & clarity, not to mention the important cut (for which that premium is inversely intuitively more modest).

Your comps put this at $9200, give or take $700.

Bottom line, whichever option you choose, EGL or non...no reason not to get one that scores well on the HCA, as you cohort cblankesj was able to find.

The one you found can be OK...but why not ask them to bring in one that scores well, and compare? They''re not hard to find.

Hmmm...I definitely agree, why not get one that scores well on HCA. The way that we have gone about this process makes it a little more difficult - we are working with a jeweler in the diamond distrct that has been showing us diamonds one by one. most of them look great to me but everytime we come back and put them on pricescope we realize that something could be better about the stone for the price - as a result we''ve gotten more specific with her about what we want. Initially she was showing us stones with terrible clarity - we told her no on this and now the stones we have been shown are much much much more eye clean. Now with this HCA rating, what are some specifics we should tell her we are looking for to increase the probability that it will score well with HCA? The depth and table seemed fine so apparently there are other characteristics this algorithm is taking into account...I just want to be able to tell the jeweler don''t show us anything with X,Y,Z so that we can cut all of the bad diamonds out of this process one by one (and save some time

 

[Carats]

Also what are the implications of scoring poorly on HCA? I mean to *me* the stone looked pretty, sparkly, etc, just as much as all the others we saw...

 

[belle]

clarity shouldn''t be a big issue if you are looking at well cut diamonds. well cut diamonds sparkle so much that you can''t see the inclusions. if you are seeing inclusions with your naked eye, viewing the stone face up, the diamond isn''t well cut. of course if you are just trying to maximize size at the expense of sparkle, then cut won''t matter as much and clarity then becomes more important. you just need to prioritize what you want most.

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 7/6/2007 1:18:16 PM
Author: Carats
Also what are the implications of scoring poorly on HCA? I mean to *me* the stone looked pretty, sparkly, etc, just as much as all the others we saw...

Good question. Based on my use of it vs clinical evaluation, I really abuse it.

Still, it''s your money. Compare. Can you tell a difference? If you can''t ignore it. If you''re shown them one by one, it may be hard to. When in doubt...maybe don''t recreate the wheel. Experts here agree it''s a helpful indicator. Based on this substantial evidence, I use it as a sub for cut. Best to substantiate yourself, indeed.

Then...or alternately...two thoughts.

1) Taken from Nice Ice:

Total depth between 59 - 61.8%

Table diameter between 53 - 57%

Crown angle between 34.3 - 34.8 degrees

Pavilion angle between 40.6 - 40.9 degrees

Girdle: thin, medium or slightly thick (or combination thereof)

Culet: GIA none or AGS pointed

Polish: GIA Excellent or AGS Ideal

Symmetry: GIA Excellent or AGS Ideal


or consider...

you''ll spend $8K or above?

b) do they have a computer. Let them run it throught the HCA, and call you when they find one that works. How much do you have to spend for them to just do this for you?

A couple of ideas, anyway.

 

[Carats]

Date: 7/6/2007 2:06:16 PM
Author: Regular Guy

Date: 7/6/2007 1:18:16 PM
Author: Carats
Also what are the implications of scoring poorly on HCA? I mean to *me* the stone looked pretty, sparkly, etc, just as much as all the others we saw...

Good question. Based on my use of it vs clinical evaluation, I really abuse it.

Still, it''s your money. Compare. Can you tell a difference? If you can''t ignore it. If you''re shown them one by one, it may be hard to. When in doubt...maybe don''t recreate the wheel. Experts here agree it''s a helpful indicator. Based on this substantial evidence, I use it as a sub for cut. Best to substantiate yourself, indeed.

Then...or alternately...two thoughts.

1) Taken from Nice Ice:

Total depth between 59 - 61.8%

Table diameter between 53 - 57%

Crown angle between 34.3 - 34.8 degrees

Pavilion angle between 40.6 - 40.9 degrees

Girdle: thin, medium or slightly thick (or combination thereof)

Culet: GIA none or AGS pointed

Polish: GIA Excellent or AGS Ideal

Symmetry: GIA Excellent or AGS Ideal


or consider...

you''ll spend $8K or above?

b) do they have a computer. Let them run it throught the HCA, and call you when they find one that works. How much do you have to spend for them to just do this for you?

A couple of ideas, anyway.

Well *I* can''t tell, but I''m no diamond expert so I don''t trust my own judgement. Almost everything looks nice to me. So all in all, is there any factor that HCA takes into account that I should be telling my jeweler so that she only picks diamonds that would score better on HCA. It will be tedious to go back and forth between the store and the computer. We are looking to have a ring ready within 2 weeks.

 

[Regular Guy]

Hmmmmm

Carats,

Maybe just re-read my last post.

In particular, note:

"How much do you have to spend for them to just do this for you?"

Do you owe something to this particular jeweler.

Depending I would refuse to, as you say...

Date: 7/6/2007 2:24:51 PM
Author: Carats
It will be tedious to go back and forth between the store and the computer.

See what happens when you tell them to just look up the cert, input the info, and if it gets 0 - 2, you'll come down.

Otherwise, you won't.

That's what I told JA.

That's how the HCA is supposed to be used. To screen out options, and then to review among what's left.

You say:

So all in all, is there any factor that HCA takes into account that I should be telling my jeweler so that she only picks diamonds that would score better on HCA.

If you believe the HCA, it just accounts numerically for what the jeweler is supposed to be doing for you without this tool. They're a jeweler. They're supposed to be doing this already.

We understand the pavilion angle is a primary indicator, based on it's having the biggest effect. But, the HCA is supposed to work to take modifications of the pavilion into account. So, reading above, they can widen the search up beyond the info I provided from Nice Ice.

I'd just tell them to "do their best" to find an ideal stone (they should know about the principles of ideal and light return, or drop them), and then have them check it themselves against the HCA.

How wacky is this idea?

P.S. edited to add...you said you've got two weeks. Any reason to give them any more than 2 business days to produce?

 

[Ellen]

Carats, did you inquire about the J SI1 I linked you to?