''Think you can buy a diamond with paper and numbers?''

[thunkpad]

I came across this site - Diamond Brokers of Florida - that has an interesting page called ''Think you can buy a diamond with paper and numbers?''

A lot of the advice on the site - especially this page on the HCA - seems to be thinly veiled criticisms of Pricescope which, it believes, makes people think they know it all and can buy a winning stone simply off paper stats.

I think the comments are a bit harsh. In my experience most Pricescopers use certificates and HCA scores to select ''possibles'' then delve in for more info such as Ideal Scope pics, visual opinion of the dealer, etc. Then as a final step many will go to see the stone in person before it''s set or have it sent to an independent appraiser.

I for one, ashamedly, did go for the ''paper'' approach because the site I bought from doesn''t have the stones in stock to evaluate for you. However, it does have a 30 day return policy so I figure I can always send it back if it doesn''t live up to the paper predictions. In an ideal world I would have bought from a PS seller who could have eyed the stone for me but unfortuanatley none had the setting I wanted and living outside the US it seemed simpler to get it all done at the same place. I''ll let you know how it works out

 

[belle]

oh goodness...
of course i don't *think* i can buy a diamond with just paper and numbers...
i KNOW i can!
and i have.

and of course i constantly get comments about how 'sparkley' my diamonds are.
the diamonds that i have bought by paper and numbers alone look better (by far) than most everything i saw in the local jewelry stores....there was no comparison.

i hope you love your paper diamond as much as i love mine thunkpad

can't wait to see it!

 

[valeria101]

Date: 4/20/2006 7:19:11 PM
Author:thunkpad


...as a final step many will go to see the stone in person before it's set or have it sent to an independent appraiser.

Or at home, or an appraiser's shop during the return period. If you could see enough diamonds lined up in any jewelry store to learn what to look for in a good one, there would be no diamond sellers on the net (?)

I am surprised at that statement, given that DBOF also sells online - and many ideal and branded cuts to boot. Not sure how they present these goods - if there is cut grading involved in the process, or only the branding (H&A, Royal Asscher what not) to back up cut quality and their cute, flashy pictures.

As for attach on Pricescope - that isn't the only. There's no lack of direct ones. Don't bother... There has to be competition for everything. Thankfully, none of that lately - those aren't fun.

 

[thunkpad]

Date: 4/20/2006 7:30:29 PM
Author: belle
oh goodness...
of course i don't *think* i can buy a diamond with just paper and numbers...
i KNOW i can!
and i have.

and of course i constantly get comments about how 'sparkley' my diamonds are.
the diamonds that i have bought by paper and numbers alone look better (by far) than most everything i saw in the local jewelry stores....there was no comparison.

i hope you love your paper diamond as much as i love mine thunkpad

can't wait to see it!

Hah! That makes me feel a bit better

I suppose the Florida site does have a point though - you can't be 100% sure how paper stones will turn out. I wonder how many promising paper stones do turn out to be duds? From the tone of that site it's as if paper predictions are barely worth the (ahem) paper they're printed on

 

[Small]

Guilty here too LOL!!! I love my diamond...thanks Wink...buying on the HCA, paper, and opinions of Wink and others at PS has been one of the best purchases to date

Richard Sherwood confirmed what the paper already said...great buy, great diamond!!!!

 

[thunkpad]

Date: 4/20/2006 7:37:03 PM
Author: valeria101

...or an appraiser''s shop during the return period.

Yup, that''s what I''ll be doing

 

[Blenheim]

Well it certainly seems like buying by the numbers (and the opinions of PS vendors, and Idealscope images...) has produced a lot of great results!

One of their criticisms was that "First and most obviously, the diamond is never *seen*, so how can visual results be given? They can''t... This should be common sense." If you think of visual as something that you see, in person, that could be "common sense." But if you start thinking of light reflecting and refracting, and bringing in physics and mathematics, I''m not so sure that I can agree.

Just my (inexpert) opinion.

 

[TravelingGal]

Well, you gotta start somewhere, so why not with the papers?

I am not just savvy, nor confident enough to buy by the papers alone. I need to work with a jeweler who will call in a stone for me and look at it him/herself. Then if it passes their inspection, I''ll have it sent to an appraiser. With the vendors I have worked with, I believe they feel it''s in their best interest to represent the diamond honestly...after all, why bother with a stone that will most likely be sent back?

There is no way I would just trust my eyes and not look at the papers (like walking into a store and buying an uncertified stone). Part of the fun is to know what I am getting, and to pay a fair price. Yes, I have to love it, but I have to be "mind clean" about it as well.

I am sure there are many here that could buy just by the numbers, and I wish I could be one of them, but I''m not!

 

[linvillegorge]

You can buy a diamond by the papers and the numbers, but I wouldn''t do it. Buying from Whiteflash, GOG, James Allen and the like isn''t exactly buying by papers and numbers. You look at the papers and numbers and then they''ll inspect the stones for you and give their expert opinion. If you''re compromising somewhere, which all of us are unless you''re getting a flawless D color stone with ideal polish and symetry at the exact carat weight you want, you''d be well served to look at the stone in person or buy from a company that offers a full return policy (which is recommended anyway). I bought from James Allen, but I drove my self right on up there to take a look before I did!

 

[FireGoddess]

I''m not speaking for rounds - I don''t own one. But for fancy shapes like my pear, I could never buy the stone based only on papers. Fancy shape stones need to be seen - by someone - before buying, IMO. You can''t gauge a bowtie or how a fancy''s gonna sparkle by paper alone, the cut standards just aren''t there yet.

 

[valeria101]

Does ''paper and numbers'' include images?


Many times they do (from DBOF of all places).

If not, a couple of numbers are enough to describe a round with good symmetry (H&A sort of symmetry). There is so little left to the imagination.. I wonder how many obsessed folk give a hoot. Princesses (square) leave a bit more to the imagination - but IMO, not enough to make one with proper cu grading (of the few there are) an unacceptable remote purchase.

Even about fancy shapes, I wonder how many buyers start out looking for certain proportions and shape anyway. Even for one who does expect personal charm from a diamond, pictures cover so much ground.


... and more so why bother dissect the matter with a fool proof return policy at hand?




Now, wouldn''t it be nice to sit and look over a dozen or so diamonds, while a patient expert seller walks you through choices and there is little pressure to follow anything but the imagination

Right... especially when Mr. buyer is too busy being afraid of a rip off to think about art, and Mr. seller absolutely needs to sell the two diamonds they do have in stock and no other.

 

[Lorelei]

How else are we going to find contenders without the cut quality info and the numbers etc???

I wouldn''t want to take the chance of seeing a RB listed of a F colour and VS clarity, only to find when it arrived that the depth was 65% with an extremely thick girdle and a 61% table to say the least...and the diameter measurements were all over the place. I know that by putting the time and research in that I have a far better chance of finding a beautiful diamond than not, this would apply even if I was buying in a B&M store.

To me it is like a recipe, get all the ingredients together to make the dish - but the final decison rests on the opinion of how it tastes - or with diamonds how it looks to my eyes. In order to get it right I need my ingredients- the numbers - to assess how each diamond might perform. Most of us PSers have moved on a long way from seeing a diamond in a store and saying " that''s pretty I will have it." Nothing wrong with that approach if that suits you, but most of us here prefer to analyze and compare before plunking down the cash. Also buying online, how else are we going to choose? Our eyes can''t do it in the first instance so there is a real need IMO for all the great info we have here on PS and that the vendors provide for us. Of course we have to remember that numbers can''t explain or express the beauty of a diamond or it''s magic 100%, some diamonds with less than ideal numbers can be incredible, but they DO give us a better chance of finding a stunner.

So to answer the title question - absolutely and I don''t think I could do it any other way now.

 

[thunkpad]

I think the general concensus is that paper gets you 90% of the way there - then use your eyes for the final judgement. On that basis nine times out of ten you''re going to have found a great stone even before you see it in the flesh.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/21/2006 5:12:35 AM
Author: thunkpad
I think the general concensus is that paper gets you 90% of the way there - then use your eyes for the final judgement. On that basis nine times out of ten you''re going to have found a great stone even before you see it in the flesh.

Why couldn''t I have said that?????? Very nice post Thunk!

That is what I was trying to say but went all around the houses as usual.

 

[ladykemma]

after all the weeding out I would need to see the diamond with my eyes.

 

[thunkpad]

Date: 4/21/2006 5:15:55 AM
Author: Lorelei
Why couldn''t I have said that?????? Very nice post Thunk!

That is what I was trying to say but went all around the houses as usual.

I try

 

[Lorelei]

You succeed!

 

[Mara]

i probably wouldn't buy a diamond JUST based off numbers and papers if i didn't have a vendor i trusted to eyeball it for me. well maybe i could for something like a pendant stone or earrings or something. but most online vendors, the good ones, will call in diamonds and then tell you with visual images or over the phone or whatever on how they perceive the diamond.

in the end, no matter what anyone calls it, whether it's online or offline, it STILL comes down to how much you trust the person or company you are buying from, DBOF just wants to be the one that you trust.

they are a huge critic of PS and i would take anything on their site with a big ole grain of salt.

i personally don't think anyone who manages to find PS and educate themselves is dumb enough to fall for smoke and mirrors in general....and 99% of the people who come here and research end up with something 10000% more fabulous than anything they would have found locally. so PS is doing something right.

 

[niceice]

Uh... We buy diamonds "By the numbers" every day... Of course, we take a look at them eventually too

Seriously, we'd spend an absolute fortune in return shipping if we didn't consider the paper aspects and numerical proportions of the diamonds that we purchase for inventory BEFORE we had them shipped out from the cutters for evaluation. Very careful consideration of the measurements of the diamond are taken into account along with the type, position and extent of the inclusions as indicted on the plotting diagram BEFORE we tell the cutters to ship the diamonds to us. Why should online diamond buyers act any differently? Use the HCA to narrow down the field of possibilities and then carefully consider the characteritics of each diamond as provided online, if a clear copy of the lab report is not available then request one from the seller... Clarity photographs can go a long way in helping to determine the extent and visibility of the inclusions within the diamond, most of the reputable online vendors are willing to supply those upon request (assuming that they are not already provided on the diamond details page). If you are looking at two or three diamonds, ask the vendor to compare them side-by-side for you and to explain the benefits and drawbacks for each stone. Buying online really isn't that much different from buying face-to-face in a store, heck from what I've seen a lot of the online vendors provide their clients with much more detail and better service than a lot of jewelry stores provide over the counter to their clients...

I think the point of the "article" is that diamond buyers shouldn't base their decision to buy a diamond "solely" on the numbers and based upon the HCA rating because that would be like buying a car without popping the hood or taking it for a test drive. Since all of the online dealers that I know offer some sort of money back guarantee and inspection period, I'm going to consider the concept of a test drive solved. There are so many wonderfully detailed diamond tutorials and related tools here on Price Scope to assist diamond buyers in making an intelligent and informed decision, the HCA is merely one of those tools - not an absolute solution to the challenge of selecting a diamond online, just one more tool in the tool box.

 

[february2003bride]

Well, I''ve purchased 2 diamonds based on papers, numbers and opinions of that company''s customer reps (Blue Nile and WhiteFlash) and recieved absolutely gorgeous diamonds that cost much less than a B&M store!

 

[Mara]

Good to see you Todd!!