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The Trump Policy of Separating Families at the US Border

AGBF

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This thread is about the new, Trump administration policy of separating would-be immigrant families at the US border as they come legally to seek asylum. This truly evil phenomenon needs its own thread. We must not become so inured to the malevolence of what Donald Trump has wrought with his presidency that the torture of families is now simply relegated to the 110th page of a thread on his other depredations upon this country's Constitution.

I have excerpted part of a column by Charles M. Blow to start the thread.


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merlin_139723005_140e96c9-e128-4b5f-a4a4-3e1ea09fd931-articleLarge.jpg

United States Border Patrol agents arriving to detain Central American asylum seekers near the Mexican border on Tuesday.CreditJohn Moore/Getty Images
"This was the lead paragraph of a New York Times report last week:

'The Trump administration said on Friday that it had separated 1,995 children from parents facing criminal prosecution for unlawfully crossing the border over a six-week period that ended last month, as President Trump sought to shift blame for the widely criticized practice that has become the signature policy of his aggressive immigration agenda.'

This may well be one of the most callous policies the Trump administration has instituted in its zeal to crack down on illegal immigration.

These are children!

On June 9, The Washington Post reported that 'a Honduran father separated from his wife and child suffered a breakdown at a Texas jail and killed himself in a padded cell last month.'


According to The Post, when the man, 39-year-old Marco Antonio Muñoz, was told he would be separated from his wife and 3-year-old son, he “ ‘lost it,’ according to one agent.”

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Marco Antonio MuñozCreditStarr County Sheriff’s Office
' "The guy lost his s—-," the agent said. "They had to use physical force to take the child out of his hands." '

The Post continued: 'Muñoz was placed in a chain-link detention cell, but he began punching the metal and shaking it violently, agents said.'

At another point in the account, The Post reported:

' "He yelled and kicked at the windows on the ride to the jail," an agent said. Shackled and handcuffed, Muñoz attempted to escape again upon arrival and once more had to be restrained. According to the sheriff’s department report, Muñoz was booked into the jail at 9:40 p.m. He remained combative and was placed in a padded isolation cell, it says.'

Muñoz would take his own life. A guard saw ' "a piece of clothing twisted around his neck which was tied to the drainage location in the center of the cell," according to the incident report filed by the sheriff’s department that morning.'

I can’t begin to imagine the incredible pain and anxiety parents like Muñoz and their children must feel. I can’t imagine being forcibly separated from my children for any reason."

When I read this story, I could feel the rage Mr. Munoz felt at his inability to save his child. Impotence to save one's child from capture and harm by others brings up the most primitive emotions. Some of us even feel it if someone attempts to harm a precious pet that we we have sworn to protect and keep safe. Think of someone tying you up and hurting your pet in front of your face. The feelings on the part of the protector and the once protected one at the betrayal cannot be exaggerated.

AGBF

Link to full article...https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/17/...-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region
 

Calliecake

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This is one of the most disgusting things this administration has done.
I have no idea how any decent human being can support this man. If this doesn’t wake people up, we are completely lost as a nation. The Republicans are cowards. Seeing the imagines of these children being taken from their parents at the border is gut wrenching. The emotional damage being done to these children is immeasurable.

Michael Avenatti said this on twitter today:

If anyone knows of a parent who has had their child taken from them at the border and not returned, please have them contact me as I am entering this fight. This outrageous conduct must be brought to an end.
 

Bluegemz

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I think we need a collective list of what we can do...such as groups to donate to, strongest groups to contact, etc. I’ve already called our state senators, signed petitions. Given some money to the ACLU, but I’m not sure what would be most effective. Any additional ideas?
 

Calliecake

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I feel sick every time I see the picture in the article you posted Snowdrop13.

If Trump were my husband or father I would divorce or disown him and I would be very vocal about doing so.

I donated money to the ACLU. Both my senators are democrats who are on twitter against this policy. I’m calling my local representive tomorrow who is a republican.
 
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AGBF

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I think we need a collective list of what we can do...such as best ways to donate, strongest groups to contact, etc. I’ve already called our state senators, signed petitions. Given some money to the ACLU, but I’m not sure what would be most effective. Any additional ideas?

You also participate in discussions here, Bluegemz. So you keep talking about it, which I think is one important thing we can do. I am not saying that our ideas should be limited to doing that. I welcome your call for additional suggestions. I just wanted to note that, in my opinion, talking about this abomination to everyone everywhere at every opportunity is something that each of us can do as well. Today an ex-boyfriend of my daughter came over. He actually did not know about what was happening. He told me it was because he did "not have cable". This is a man with an associate's degree who is now pursuing a bachelor's degree with a 4.0 average! But he told me had voted in the last election, so I pressed him on how important it would be to vote in midterms. (I was pleased he had wanted to keep Trump out of office.) We have to keep talking to everyone everywhere!

Deb :wavey:
 

Bluegemz

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You also participate in discussions here, Bluegemz. So you keep talking about it, which I think is one important thing we can do. I am not saying that our ideas should be limited to doing that. I welcome your call for additional suggestions. I just wanted to note that, in my opinion, talking about this abomination to everyone everywhere at every opportunity is something that each of us can do as well. Today an ex-boyfriend of my daughter came over. He actually did not know about what was happening. He told me it was because he did "not have cable". This is a man with an associate's degree who is now pursuing a bachelor's degree with a 4.0 average! But he told me had voted in the last election, so I pressed him on how important it would be to vote in midterms. (I was pleased he had wanted to keep Trump out of office.) We have to keep talking to everyone everywhere!

Deb :wavey:
I’ll keep taking, sharing on Facebook, and donating as much as I can! We all need to take some action now. I am willing to forgo any kind of jewelry purchases so that I can contribute instead. This is so outrageous. I’ve had enough.
I also know people who just didn’t vote! I’m going to be pushy about encouraging them to vote it if I have to .
 

AGBF

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I saw this earlier today. Unfortunately, she did not dare say that the separation was not the fault of the Democrats. Therefore, what does Trump care? He can keep saying what he has been saying, that the separation is terrible, just terrible, and it is all the fault of the Democrats. I am not giving Melania any credit for this one. As long as she is married to Trump she has to stick by him and he is evil.
 

Bluegemz

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My feeling is that Melania despises him, but the marriage is a business arrangement. It must be scary to face a Narcissistic rage...she has to sort of live with him. She was too timid and took 0 responsibility, But I can’t imagine that she feels that she has any influence over him, considering his personality disorder, and what it’s like to live with him.

Too bad she doesn’t realize how helpful a stronger stance would be for others. She basically said the obvious. Nothing to work with there. I did sense that there maybe a shred of empathy there as a mother, maybe. But empathy without responsibility and personal power is anemic.

She’s got to be so tuned out after years with this monster. I just don’t understand why she doesn’t try a little harder though considering the harm being done and obvious danger which this poses to all. If he can do this, the mentality is unleashed and he can and WILL do it increasingly more often to others as well.
 
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tkyasx78

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Regarding the policy of separating families so he can get a wall; I have 2 words
:silenced:
Robert DeNiro
:silenced:



That is all
 

OoohShiny

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This was on some news channels over here in the UK this morning.

I've not looked into it yet, but have to ask why they are separating families?

Is it so that the children are 'safe' while they prosecute the parents for daring to seek a better life in the US?
 

Matthews1127

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This was on some news channels over here in the UK this morning.

I've not looked into it yet, but have to ask why they are separating families?

Is it so that the children are 'safe' while they prosecute the parents for daring to seek a better life in the US?

“Safe”? No. These children are ripped from their parents, and some have been kidnapped. This is the Mexican/US Border. I have no doubt some are being sold into the sex trade. Others, exploited in other places. I’d be amazed to find out I’m wrong. This is criminal. There is no reason why these children should be separated from their parents...at all. Period. The last period in time that closely resembles this display, to me, is Nazi Germany, when families were separated to be led off to their slaughter in concentration camps. Even the Japanese experienced this, during WWII. This is too reminiscent of what happened to the Jews, and I fear this administration has lost grip on reality. It’s clear the Constitution is just a piece of paper to these people. The entire country should be outraged! These poor families don’t deserve this!!
 

OoohShiny

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Godwin's Law invoked by Post 13 - we're doing well :D lol


But being serious, the reasoning for the action needs to be clear (and valid), otherwise how can such action be defensible?

I can appreciate that no country wants to be overwhelmed by a flood of immigration that requires direct and indirect financial support, and all the faff that comes with locating and settling a growing population, but I don't believe that all immigrants are just looking to go to another country to sponge off the system and/or commit criminal activity. Some are, of course, but then there are plenty of people born in any given country that seem to think they should live off others for free. I think most people want to be economically active and create a good life for themselves and their family!

Anyone who feels the need to escape their country for another in order to make their lives better has my sympathies. I would hope that if for any reason I ever felt the same, I would be welcomed and given the opportunity to prove my worth and integrate into the community. (And I would hope that people across the world actually wish to carry out good deeds to make their own life and the lives of others better - I don't understand the criminal mentality, but I do appreciate that there must be reasons behind it that need addressing.)
 

Bluegemz

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Whenever people and children are made to be vulnerable in such an extreme way, where sacred human law no longer applies to them, there is bound to be abuse. In addition, such separation causes extensive physiological damage. It is well known in the field of developmental psychology and in trauma studies. This kind of exposure is primitive, irresponsible, diminishes all, and unnecessary.

I know a woman, ( an aquaintance, who wants to share her story), who was separated when she was a teenager and then kidnapped into the sex trade. They left her for dead after many days of heinous abuse. She spent her life being quiet because she feared for her families safety after the perps threatened to kill her family if she told. After multiple psychiatric hospitalizations spanning decades, and trauma treatment, she finally had the courage to speak out. The impact of such an experience is ongoing for the victim, with extensive recovery and help needed. And, it is doubtful that full recovery is even possible. Such damage also keeps vulnerable people susceptible to further abuse. How many people have you met, or stories which you have heard about people who seem to have long stories of multiple traumas? We all know we have few and ever dwindling resources for such help. No matter what people think about what should be done about immigration, the ends cannot justify the means.

The truly egregious aspect to this is that Trump is only doing this to leverage his wall idea. Which many are opposed to. The fact is that the US has the most protected boarders of any first world nation. Consider our geographical location, never mind boarder control. The wall idea, and immigrants are to DT as the Jews were to Hitler, distract, divide, unify ...us versus them. I think it’s been vastly inflated for this reason. As a narcissist, his core flaw, lack of empathy, means that he delights in picking winners and losers’. Winners are not safe for long either, as they will also eventually become losers. In fact, he only shows a semblance of respect to those more powerful than he is...namely ruthless dictators. Those which he aspires to become more like.

We can all see how unstable this is,. His personal ‘wins’ are as much show and pomp as is his false self and ego. No substance, false morality thinly disguised, self interested and manipulative. And nothing else.
 
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soxfan

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Boy he is REALLY losing it on twitter. Can't WAIT to hear his nickname for Laura Bush soon....:???::???::???:

Screen Shot 2018-06-18 at 10.06.10 AM.png
 

Bluegemz

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So distorted too. How he eggagerates a one sided understanding for the purpose of fear mongering. My aunt lives in Germany. She has a Syrian teenager living with her. He has been selected via education to become an oncologist. Education is free, and he will be able to provide for others. He will not be living off the system. They can afford free health care and education, childcare. People work and pay into taxes, which is efficiently used for these things with minimal corruption. These are the other stories which of course we never hear about.
 

House Cat

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My feeling is that Melania despises him, but the marriage is a business arrangement. It must be scary to face a Narcissistic rage...she has to sort of live with him. She was too timid and took 0 responsibility, But I can’t imagine that she feels that she has any influence over him, considering his personality disorder, and what it’s like to live with him.

Too bad she doesn’t realize how helpful a stronger stance would be for others. She basically said the obvious. Nothing to work with there. I did sense that there maybe a shred of empathy there as a mother, maybe. But empathy without responsibility and personal power is anemic.

She’s got to be so tuned out after years with this monster. I just don’t understand why she doesn’t try a little harder though considering the harm being done and obvious danger which this poses to all. If he can do this, the mentality is unleashed and he can and WILL do it increasingly more often to others as well.
My feeling is that Melania is as bad as Trump.

She is free to divorce him whenever she wants and live a normal and moral life like the rest of us.

The fact that people keep painting her as some sort of victim when she is in such a powerful position makes me sick. Why do we do this? Because she’s pretty?

Again, she is not in chains. She is free to leave whenever she wants. Being in the public eye would help such a cause. She wants to stay.
 
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AGBF

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The morning news showed the first footage of the cages at the main "processing facility" in McAllen, Texas. Reporters still are not allowed to film inside the facilities, but ICE provided some film. Notice that the film is of adults. Film of children would inflame people seeing it. Jacob Soboroff of MSNBC who has been in Texas for a week and who has been inside the facility ICE filmed discussed conditions he saw there. He has a 2 1/2 year-old child at home himself. There are only 4 child care workers on the premises who are allowed to touch the children for reasons such as to change a diaper. Children are in cages sleeping on the concrete floor. There are over 1,000 of them already with more coming. One may not get care from a worker at all for 24 hours.

By the way, forget John Kasich as any kind of leader. When Stephanie Ruhl asked him to get Republicans to stand up, he told her that he and she differed on this matter and that both Republicans and Democrats were to blame. Another b*stard. Never speak his name in my presence again just because he is not Trump! He is an apologist for this child abuse!

Remember: seeking asylum is not illegal. These people in the Trump administration LIE.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/18/politics/immigration-mcallen-border-patrol-photos/index.html
 

AGBF

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I had heard people who had been detained being interviewed at a Catholic Charities welcome center. I learned that two facilities for children were called by them, "The Ice Box" and "The Dog Pound" because in one it was freezing and they slept on the concrete floor with no blankets. In the other, they were in cages.

I just found this about the cold room.s Apparently there have been complaints about them going back years. I saw some from as far back as 203,but of course little children were not left alone in them then. Or for long periods of time. Not that I excuse them ever being allowed to exist. humane temperatures for humans should exist where immigrants are housed.

Here is what I found and a link to where I found it.

"Finally, new reports have surfaced of alleged abuses of unaccompanied children by Border Patrol. The American Civil Liberties Union of San Diego released thousands of documents obtained from the DHS Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties through a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request.

The reports are mostly allegations — DHS did not release the results of most investigations. But there is no doubt that Border Patrol is not a suitable custodian for children; that’s why the law requires prompt transfer of custody to ORR. On the ground, transfers are frequently long-delayed, leaving kids to sit around for days and days, crowded and idle, in cold law enforcement “hold rooms” — universally called hieleras (iceboxes), because the air conditioning runs so high — rather than being housed in appropriate child-friendly facilities.

Hold rooms, which have no beds, no showers, and nothing to do, are not supposed to house children for long periods of time — indeed, they are not supposed to provide more than the briefest detention for adults. However, the administration seems less interested in improving the conditions for these children than in removing their protections, and making deportation without due process easier."

Link...https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-border/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.616b22553d5e
 

mrs-b

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Anyone got a link to any petition to sign saying that this is a voting issue for the undersigned and that they will vote on the basis of this single issue? Or any petition that says this practice is heinous and must end? Or multiple petitions?

I don't know where to go with this, and I sure as hell want to go somewhere with it.
 

JPie

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Anyone got a link to any petition to sign saying that this is a voting issue for the undersigned and that they will vote on the basis of this single issue? Or any petition that says this practice is heinous and must end? Or multiple petitions?

I don't know where to go with this, and I sure as hell want to go somewhere with it.
Anyone got a link to any petition to sign saying that this is a voting issue for the undersigned and that they will vote on the basis of this single issue? Or any petition that says this practice is heinous and must end? Or multiple petitions?

I don't know where to go with this, and I sure as hell want to go somewhere with it.

From my post in the other thread:

For those who think it’s wrong to separate families at the border, and you have a Republican senator, please ask him/her to cosponsor S.3036 to stop it: https://mobile.twitter.com/SenFeinstein/status/1007773750731952128

Whether or not you have a Republican senator, you can donate to LEAF Project, an effort from the non-profit RAICES organization in Texas to ensure legal representation for undocumented minors: https://actionnetwork.org/fundraising/leafund
 

Calliecake

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My feeling is that Melania is as bad as Trump.

She is free to divorce him whenever she wants and live a normal and moral life like the rest of us.

The fact that people keep painting her as some sort of victim when she is in such a powerful position makes me sick. Why do we do this? Because she’s pretty?

Again, she is not in chains. She is free to leave whenever she wants. Being in the public eye would help such a cause. She wants to stay.

I completely agree with House Cat. Barron is at an age where he can choose which parent he wants to live with. Melania stays because she chooses to. She would receive a settlement where she could certainly live comfortably. A decent lawyer would have a field day with all the humiliation Trump has put her through this past year for the whole world to witness.

Millions of women leave bad men every day.
 

House Cat

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I completely agree with House Cat. Barron is at an age where he can choose which parent he wants to live with. Melania stays because she chooses to. She would receive a settlement where she could certainly live comfortably. A decent lawyer would have a field day with all the humiliation Trump has put her through this past year for the whole world to witness.

Millions of women leave bad men every day.
Even if she received nothing, she’s capable of earning tons of money.
 

Calliecake

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Well I just hung up with my local representative’s office. I asked what my his view was in separating children from their parents at the border. Her response was he finds it concerning. I stated it’s disgusting, not concerning. She then said there will be a vote on Thursday. I then said this can be ended TODAY. I told her to tell her boss he had better wake up. Woman are mothers first and we will work together to get him voted out. I was not sweet or particularly nice on the phone. I can’t be, I’m enraged by this. This administration is pure evil.

i can’t wait to hear what Sarah Sanders says today at the briefing.
 

Matata

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My feeling is that Melania is as bad as Trump.

She is free to divorce him whenever she wants and live a normal and moral life like the rest of us.

The fact that people keep painting her as some sort of victim when she is in such a powerful position makes me sick. Why do we do this? Because she’s pretty?

Again, she is not in chains. She is free to leave whenever she wants. Being in the public eye would help such a cause. She wants to stay.
:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

We have a prostitute as first lady and not an honorable one.
 

mrs-b

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From my post in the other thread:

For those who think it’s wrong to separate families at the border, and you have a Republican senator, please ask him/her to cosponsor S.3036 to stop it: https://mobile.twitter.com/SenFeinstein/status/1007773750731952128

Whether or not you have a Republican senator, you can donate to LEAF Project, an effort from the non-profit RAICES organization in Texas to ensure legal representation for undocumented minors: https://actionnetwork.org/fundraising/leafund

Thanks, @JPie :wavey:

I'll get onto both those web sites today.
 
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