The Real Scandal - Disenfranchising Voters!

[AGBF]

I hadnt paid much attention to the whole Acorn brouhaha, but I read Bob Herbert religiously. Well, maybe not religiously . I read him when I can. But I think he''s wonderful. He''s sane and smart and the conscience of, "The New York Times".

When I read his column on the Op-Ed page this morning I was glad I hadn''t fiddled around with reading about Acorn, which I am convinced is totally irrelevant to Barack Obama''s campaign, since-as Mr.Herbert points out-Mr. Obama had nothing to do with its voter registration drives. Not to mention that no phoney votes were cast! But the latter part is irelevant. It is a tempest in a teapot used by the Republicans who have perpetrated far greater misdeeds upon the more fragile voters in the United States.

The real scandal is that the Republicans have been whittling away at the rights of who can vote, making it harder and harder for American citizens to vote and to have their votes counted fairly.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/21/opinion/21herbert.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin


Deborah

 

[AGBF]

Here are some excerpts from Mr. Herberts''s Op-Ed piece to which a link is provided above:


"Which brings me to the phony Acorn scandal.

John McCain, who placed his principles in a blind trust once the presidential race heated up, warned the country during the presidential debate last week that Acorn, which has been registering people to vote by the hundreds of thousands, was ''on the verge of maybe perpetrating one of the greatest frauds in voter history.''

It turns out that a tiny percentage of these new registrations are bogus, with some of them carrying ludicrous names like Mickey Mouse. Republicans have tried to turn this into a mighty oak of a scandal, with Mr. McCain thundering at the debate that it ''may be destroying the fabric of democracy.''

Please. The Times put the matter in perspective when it said in an editorial that Acorn needs to be more careful with some aspects of its voter-registration process. It needs to do a better job selecting canvassers, among other things.

''But,'' the editorial added, ''for all of the McCain campaign’s manufactured fury about vote theft (and similar claims from the Republican Party over the years) there is virtually no evidence — anywhere in the country, going back many elections — of people showing up at the polls and voting when they are not entitled to.''

Two important points need to be made here. First, the reckless attempt by Senator McCain, Sarah Palin and others to fan this into a major scandal has made Acorn the target of vandals and a wave of hate calls and e-mail. Acorn staff members have been threatened and sickening, murderous comments have been made about supporters of Barack Obama. (Senator Obama had nothing to do with Acorn’s voter-registration drives.)

Second, when it comes to voting, the real threat to democracy is the nonstop campaign by the G.O.P. and its supporters to disenfranchise American citizens who have every right to cast a ballot. We saw this in 2000. We saw it in 2004. And we’re seeing it again now.

In Montana, the Republican Party challenged the registrations of thousands of legitimate voters based on change-of-address information available from the Post Office. These specious challenges were made — surprise, surprise — in Democratic districts. Answering the challenges would have been a wholly unnecessary hardship for the voters, many of whom were students or members of the armed forces.

In the face of widespread public criticism (even the Republican lieutenant governor weighed in), the party backed off.

That sort of thing is widespread. In one politically crucial state after another — in Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, you name it — the G.O.P. has unleashed foot soldiers whose insidious mission is to make the voting process as difficult as possible — or, better yet, impossible — for citizens who are believed to favor Democrats.

For Senator McCain to flip reality on its head and point to an overwhelmingly legitimate voter-registration effort as a ''threat to the fabric of democracy'' is a breathtaking exercise in absurdity.

Miles Rapoport, a former Connecticut secretary of state who is now president of Demos, a public policy group, remarked on the irony of elected Republican officials deliberately attempting to thwart voting. Some years ago, he said, he ''and all the other secretaries of state'' would bemoan the lack of interest in voting, especially among the young and the poor.

Now, he said, with the explosion of voter registration and the heightened interest in the presidential campaign, you’d think officials ''would welcome that, and encourage it, and even celebrate it.'' Instead, he said, in so many cases, G.O.P. officials are ''trying to pare down the lists.''”

Deborah

 

[Ellen]

I was listening to someone, can''t remember who, on a news station several nights ago, and they were talking about this, and how a pattern is emerging. I really fear we may see a repeat of votes being challenged should this end up being a close race.

 

[swimmer]

It was reported on NPR the other day that pamphlets and fliers are going out in urban centers saying to stay away from the polling places because police will be there enforcing something or other...scare tactics from someone afraid that Obama is doing too well.

 

[ksinger]

I''m probably behind the times, but I just read about Michelle Bachmann this morning. (You can see how much I watch TV). I also didn''t watch subsequent Powell responses to press questions until just this morning, but he scored again by slamming Michelle Bachmann''s comments to the nethermost region of heck, where they clearly belong. Yeesh...that we should be dealing with this crap AGAIN....

McCarthy, anyone? Anyone?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/oct/20/commentanddebate-john-mccain-barack-obama

** end semi-related sorta kinda threadjack ***

 

[MoonWater]

I''ve been saying this all along. It has been happening for years.

 

[luckylux]

I heard this on kpfa about a month ago. There is a movie called Stealing America: Vote by Vote. I had chills running through my body as they recounted how in the exit polls Kerry was ahead in 2004. However, as the votes were "counted", the numbers flip flopped to show Bush in the lead. The CEO of Diebold, Walden O''Dell, was a Bush/Republican Party supporter. The Diebold machines for ATMS provide a paper receipt of the transaction. The Diebold voting machines did not allow for any kind of paper trail.
We can only imagine how our country would be now if we hadn''t had the Bush administration for these last 8 years.

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Date: 10/21/2008 8:56:09 AM
Author: luckylux
I heard this on kpfa about a month ago. There is a movie called Stealing America: Vote by Vote. I had chills running through my body as they recounted how in the exit polls Kerry was ahead in 2004. However, as the votes were ''counted'', the numbers flip flopped to show Bush in the lead. The CEO of Diebold, Walden O''Dell, was a Bush/Republican Party supporter. The Diebold machines for ATMS provide a paper receipt of the transaction. The Diebold voting machines did not allow for any kind of paper trail.

We can only imagine how our country would be now if we hadn''t had the Bush administration for these last 8 years.

Hi Lucky! Just wanted to note that exit polls are not the most reliable source. The media also broke a "rule" of exit polls in 2004 because they released them before the polls were closed. That could have influenced the voting. Just thought it might be worth noting.

 

[luckylux]

Hi Moonwater, I knew I had seen someone mention it here on PS before. Sarah, I''m not saying it''s reliable but it''s odd and just doesn''t ring true w/ me.

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Date: 10/21/2008 9:20:52 AM
Author: luckylux
Hi Moonwater, I knew I had seen someone mention it here on PS before. Sarah, I''m not saying it''s reliable but it''s odd and just doesn''t ring true w/ me.

Oh I agree with you on that one. It''s definitely odd, I just have my own theories on that one.

 

[movie zombie]

its disgusting, disgraceful, and frankly unAmerican.

i''ve read that Obama needs to win by a margin large enough to account for this activity. unfortunately, much of it is done silently and a voter is not even aware until showing up to vote....by which time its too late.

my blood still boils regarding the disenfranchisement of florida active soldiers [in Iraq] in the 2004 election.

movie zombie

 

[trillionaire]

http://www.electiondefensealliance.org/witness_crime_citizens_audit_american_election

I think more needs to be known about this book. The author himself says it is less about Bush winning, and more about the fact that if our votes don''t count, we don''t actually have a democracy. The book includes a cd with pictures of many of the defrauded ballots. Of course, that doesn''t include the paperless Diebold votes...

 

[starsapphire]

There is no proof that any election was stolen. I only hope it is a clear win either way so we don''t have a huge mess. This country is already completely screwed up, we don''t need any more crap.

 

[starsapphire]

The ACORN deal is that Barack used to be a community organizer for ACORN. He does not actively work with them now, but, as far as I know, ACORN is a predominatly Dem organization. ACORN has had a hand in a lot of dealings with getting the standards by which banks would lend to low income people which really could not afford a house, and which may have ultimately led to the collapse of the housing market.

 

[decodelighted]

Yeah I heard that the CEO of Diebold promised to "deliver" the state ... and then, despite all polls to the contrary ... did. How frightening if the elections are fixed at the paperless booths. It only takes a few in strategic locations. That''s why New York said NO WAY JOSE & still has old school 70''s manual machines!

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 10/21/2008 3:24:53 PM
Author: starsapphire
ACORN has had a hand in a lot of dealings with getting the standards by which banks would lend to low income people which really could not afford a house, and which may have ultimately led to the collapse of the housing market.

Yeahhhhhh. It wasn't the profiteers on Wall Street who decided to play tradsies with mortgage-backed securities. It was def def the community organizers who *may* have lobbied for fair consideration of lower-income mortgage applications, and the poor people who applied for those mortgages, and then lost their jobs (under that job-creating Republican adminstration) and weren't able to pay their mortgages and then were kicked out of their homes by panicking banks.

Here's the logical flaw: if the mortgages were so "risky" to begin with (only allowed due to shady strong arming of a shadowy organization) WHY OH WHY did Wall Street decide to gamble everything they had on them? Hmmmmm? No one forced THEM. No laws said they HAD to invest in the super risky mortgages or trade them like scratch-n-sniff stickers.

 

[goobear78]

Date: 10/21/2008 3:24:53 PM
Author: starsapphire
The ACORN deal is that Barack used to be a community organizer for ACORN. He does not actively work with them now, but, as far as I know, ACORN is a predominatly Dem organization. ACORN has had a hand in a lot of dealings with getting the standards by which banks would lend to low income people which really could not afford a house, and which may have ultimately led to the collapse of the housing market.

Obama was never a community organizer for ACORN. ACORN never hired Obama as a trainer, organizer, or any type of employee. ACORN was not part of Project Vote, the successful voter registration drive Barack ran in 1992.

This was taken from Obama's website "In his capacity as an attorney, Barack represented ACORN in a successful lawsuit alongside the U.S. Department of Justice against the state of Illinois to force state compliance with a federal voting access law. For his work helping enforce the law, called “Motor Voter,” Barack received the IVI-IPO Legal Eagle Award in 1995."

Also, ACORN is not a "predominately Democratic organization". ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, is a community-based organization that advocates for low- and moderate-income families by working on neighborhood safety, health care and other social issues. It just so happens that the majority of low income families tend to vote for Democrats, But ACORN is not a democratic organization. Actually, McCain spoke at an ACORN event back in 2006. They are also not to blame for the current housing crisis. We can thank the sub-prime mortgage lenders and banks for that one. As well as some others, unfortunately there is a lot of blame to go around with that mess and I know, I work in real estate.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Date: 10/21/2008 3:49:02 PM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 10/21/2008 3:24:53 PM
Author: starsapphire
ACORN has had a hand in a lot of dealings with getting the standards by which banks would lend to low income people which really could not afford a house, and which may have ultimately led to the collapse of the housing market.

WHY OH WHY did Wall Street decide to gamble everything they had on them? Hmmmmm? No one forced THEM. No laws said they HAD to invest in the super risky mortgages or trade them like scratch-n-sniff stickers.

Because the gov''t had already promised to back Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which means they could take risks that any private firm couldn''t. Wall Street tried to compete and everybody lost.

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Date: 10/21/2008 3:58:09 PM
Author: goobear78

Date: 10/21/2008 3:24:53 PM

Author: starsapphire

The ACORN deal is that Barack used to be a community organizer for ACORN. He does not actively work with them now, but, as far as I know, ACORN is a predominatly Dem organization. ACORN has had a hand in a lot of dealings with getting the standards by which banks would lend to low income people which really could not afford a house, and which may have ultimately led to the collapse of the housing market.

Obama was never a community organizer for ACORN. ACORN never hired Obama as a trainer, organizer, or any type of employee. ACORN was not part of Project Vote, the successful voter registration drive Barack ran in 1992.


This was taken from Obama's website 'In his capacity as an attorney, Barack represented ACORN in a successful lawsuit alongside the U.S. Department of Justice against the state of Illinois to force state compliance with a federal voting access law. For his work helping enforce the law, called “Motor Voter,” Barack received the IVI-IPO Legal Eagle Award in 1995.'


Also, ACORN is not a 'predominately Democratic organization'. ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, is a community-based organization that advocates for low- and moderate-income families by working on neighborhood safety, health care and other social issues. It just so happens that the majority of low income families tend to vote for Democrats, But ACORN is not a democratic organization. Actually, McCain spoke at an ACORN event back in 2006. They are also not to blame for the current housing crisis. We can thank the sub-prime mortgage lenders and banks for that one. As well as some others, unfortunately there is a lot of blame to go around with that mess and I know, I work in real estate.

Have you seen the video of the ACORN convention where they are flat-out saying we're going to elect Obama? I'll let you know if I can find it on youtube. And of course that doesn't necessarily speak for the WHOLE organization, but if these speakers do not speak for the organization why are they speaking during the convention. Does that make sense? I would think that on average organizations choose speakers that reflect their views to speak at their convention. Anyway, I will let you know if I can find the video (I'll be gone until later tonight) and sorry for the threadjack - if I find the video online I will post it on the ACORN thread as to not continue jacking this thread.

ETA: Found at least part of it. I'm posting it on the ACORN thread.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 10/21/2008 4:14:20 PM
Author: SarahLovesJS
Have you seen the video of the ACORN convention where they are flat-out saying we''re going to elect Obama?

As discussed on other threads ... I''m sure there are MANY organizations that would want to elect McCain but would not be considered "Republican" organizations. They found a candidate they like, that speaks for them ... what of it? Must be nefarious!

 

[MoonWater]

Edit: goobear beat me to it.

 

[Rank Amateur]

Deb, there''s been plenty of voter fraud to go around, both parties. I read last week that (Democratic-laden) Cleveland has 100,000 more registered voters than it has eligible people of voting age.

One could make a much better case that the Dems are more likely to commit the fraud since they are most often the benefactors of the extra voters at the polls.

 

[decodelighted]

TIPS FOR VOTING ..

1) Vote early
2) Bring picture ID with you, even if it is not required
3) Double check voting locations ONLINE ... do NOT rely on phone calls telling you where to go
4) Ask for proof of your vote
5) DO NOT WEAR ANY BUTTONS OR CANDIDATE INFO ON YOUR PERSON ... you may be profiled & harassed
6) Do not tell anyone in advance who you plan to vote for, including news crews or pollsters. Only tell afterwards.
7) Assert yourself if challenged ... speak to a supervisor if necessary.

And, its very courteous to offer to help elderly neighbors or others who would like to vote but may have trouble getting to the polls. Sometimes these are the very folks who become fearful & intimidated if harassed in any way.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 10/21/2008 5:53:59 PM
Author: Rank Amateur
the Dems are more likely to commit the fraud since they are most often the benefactors of the extra voters at the polls.

With certain kinds of fraud you don''t need bodies, only hackers. Can you guess the way *those* turn out? I''ll take a wild guess: the last eight years.

 

[Rank Amateur]

?? Your post is absurd. You are not helping your own arguments with such drivel.

Bush won by a WIDE margin last time - both in Electoral votes and popular votes. I'd have to look it up but I believe he got more popular votes than Clinton ever did.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 10/21/2008 6:05:28 PM
Author: Rank Amateur
?? Your post is absurd. You are not helping your own arguments with such drivel.

People can decide for themselves what is drivel & what is absurd. I'd contend that your arguments aren't best served with bitter bullying.

Here's quite a lot of info for those who are interested. And a security expert who claims Diebold machines were built to be hacked. And may have caused the loss of Ohio in 2004.

ETA:
Can the GOP steal the election again ... You Betcha! Why a landslide is so important.

 

[beebrisk]

So the major sources sited here are the NY Times and NPR.
Both left-leaning, Democrat-targeting media outlets.

How come no one here has mentioned (or questioned!) the election of 2006 when the Dems took the House and Senate?

The Deibold machines seemed to be running smoothly that year and the "intimidators" must have all stayed home.

Mark my words...if Obama wins (and it appears that will likely be the case) all this talk of disenfranchisement, Diebold machines, exit polls and fraud will cease immediately...until the next national election.

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 10/21/2008 6:57:05 PM
Author: beebrisk
So the major sources sited here are the NY Times and NPR.
Both left-leaning, Democrat-targeting media outlets.

How come no one here has mentioned (or questioned!) the election of 2006 when the Dems took the House and Senate?

The Deibold machines seemed to be running smoothly that year and the ''intimidators'' must have all stayed home.

Mark my words...if Obama wins (and it appears that will likely be the case) all this talk of disenfranchisement, Diebold machines, exit polls and fraud will cease immediately...until the next national election.

And as I stated before, the GOP brought up the whole voter fraud issue in several elections. Including this one. If Obama wins by close margins I don''t doubt they''ll blame ACORN and Mickey Mouse (as if he actually showed up to vote).

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 10/21/2008 6:05:28 PM
Author: Rank Amateur
Bush won by a WIDE margin last time - both in Electoral votes and popular votes. I''d have to look it up but I believe he got more popular votes than Clinton ever did.

Doesn''t look so very WIDE to me?? And, while you''re correct that Bush did receive more votes than Clinton did ... Clinton beat Bush percentage-wise 1996 vs 2000. No surprise, as GORE beat Bush in both popular votes & percentage of vote in 2000.

CLINTON 1996
Popular Vote: 47,402,357
Percentage: 49.24%
Electoral Vote: 379

BUSH 2000
Popular Vote: 50,456,002
Percentage: 47.9 (to Gore''s 48.4%)
Electoral Vote: 271 (to Gore''s 266)

BUSH 2004
Popular Vote: 62,040,610 (to Kerry''s 59,028,444)
Percentage: 50.7% (to Kerry''s 48.3%)
Electoral Vote: 286 (to Kerry''s 252)

1992 was a three way race so the #s aren''t comparable.

 

[trillionaire]

There is fraud that happens in every election, on both sides of the aisle. For those who are blaming one party or another, please remember that when fraud happens it hurts everyone by destroying the credibility of our voting system. This isn't "us vs. them", this is "us vs. corruption!"




http://stealbackyourvote.org/